Why My Religion or Nonreligion?

[JoeyKnothead]

Why did you choose or accept your religious position over others?

[otseng]

You confuse critical thinking with adolescent ridicule.

Thank you for your tremendous contribution to this thread. I always appreciate people trying to put words in my mouth

Corrected it: "Education teaches you adolescent ridicule. Adolescent ridicule and religion do not mix."

Moderator comment:

Please tone down on the rhetoric. Let's try to keep the discussions civil and respectful.

[Miles]

Coming from a Christian background (I was even baptized into two different religions) I started looking into Christianity, and when it became fairly evident that many of it's claims and beliefs could not be substantiated to a reasonable degree---most everyone simply took them as given truths---I jumped ship. Subsequent religions faired no better, although the less dogmatic they were the more reasonable they seemed, but none came close to acceptability. However, other sources, particularly books like Heading Toward Omega: In Search of the Meaning of the Near-Death Experience by Kenneth Ring, made a very strong case for an after life, leading me reject outright atheism in favor of agnosticism.

[Sketch]

I tend to believe in my christian/catholic heritage, because that was what I was taught as a child, and the community I lived in. Later in life, I did have doubts about it. I even inwardly defined myself an atheist later when I couldn't explain things about the Bible... But later, when I actually studied about my religion, actually learned about it, and the culture and history about it from which it originated, I came back with stronger faith than I ever had. Why? Because even in a war torn region occupied by Romans, steeped in culture and traditions, where an eye for an eye was the common place theme, one man,(in my belief had to be real), left such a powerful mark on the world...

A man who actually DEFIED parts of his culture, who preached about mercy towards enemies and conversing with people who were considered outsiders to society and a relationship with God. On a darker note, he left a dire warning to those who were corrupt and thought themselves special or above everyone else, people who were usually praised in their respective societies. His views were so different, so separate from anything else heard in his time, whether you believe or not in him being the son of God, it would be strange to say that such teachings did not leave a mark on the world, because they obviously did, and in order to do so, there had to be a substance behind it.

That is why I prefer my religion, though I respect judaism and muslim. Where most other ancient religions were formed based on how people explained natural events and the creation of the world, late Judaism and Christianity never really went into that... The human condition, what was moral, an actual CONNECTION between God and people, with such wisdom and inner life, made me believe in it more because it set itself apart from others. Muslim holds a lot of those same truths, though I worry about what they actually see as religion compared to culture.

Thats not to say the Bible has problems... But one has to realize that the Holy Book, is not so much as a book, but rather as a library of writings that were sometimes hundreds of years apart. You have to think of the time period, the writing style, the text, and the purpose of the story... because throughout the bible it changes numerous times.

[Flashpoint]

Why did you choose or accept your religious position over others?

I discovered, rather late in life, that there was a religion that shared my values, my priorities, and my attitudes - and did NOT insult my intelligence, demand unquestioning belief in anything, or waste a lot of ink and air making pronouncements about things no one can know, like what happens after you die and what God is and thinks. Judaism, for me, is remarkably self-consistent, deeply insightful about the human mind and heart, deeply humanistic and deeply ethical, and inclined to reject supernaturalism as anything but superstition and myth.

I could say more, and have; but that will do for the moment.

I've got to say this is probably the best reason for choosing a religion I've ever seen. Most people just pick what makes them feel special and dive in, but thinking it through like this is a far better approach.

As for the OP:

I chose to leave the Christian faith because so little of it made sense on a logical level, I couldn'y reconcile what was said by the bible with what I saw in the real world.

Basically I decided to become a rationalist in all aspects of my life.

[BwhoUR]

I only recently described myself as an Atheist, hating the word because it reminds me of the word antichrist, and I don't like wishy washy words like agnostic and mushy words like humanist.

Anyway, I was baptized in infancy as Catholic, raised Jehovah's Witness and my husband was raised Pentacostal (his father is a preacher). So I've been exposed to several religions. When I was about 11, I was the last person in my family to attend JW church. My entire family had stopped going for various reasons, mainly laziness and I was a BELIEVER. I came to a serious crossroads twice. Once when a friend of the family became pregnant out of wedlock, she (not the boy) was interrogated by the "elders" asked probing, personal, embarrassing questions, then excommunicated. The other crossroad was when I realized I had to choose between the JWs and my friends/family (the JWs are what I refer to as a soft-core cult, in that they don't like you hanging around with people who are touched by the world i.e. wickedness). While grappling with these two life-changing issues, I rejected the churche's positions and gave up faith, and thought I was evil for doing so. After that, I looked with a very critical eye at all religions and as I grew up, realized that I was right to do so and faith in myself as a good person emerged stronger. I think people have to stay vigilant and focused on truth, no matter how hard it is. And it is, all day long hearing people sneeze and not saying 'bless you', it feels somehow rude.

[GentleDove]

Why did you choose or accept your religious position over others?

God changed my heart (which, in Christianity, includes the mind...please don't wonder if I mean the circulatory organ that pumps blood ), and He saved me. (Ezek. 36:26) Otherwise, I probably would have ended up a vaguely "new-agey" humanist, living for myself.

[McCulloch]

God changed my heart (which, in Christianity, includes the mind...please don't wonder if I mean the circulatory organ that pumps blood ), and He saved me. (Ezek. 36:26) Otherwise, I probably would have ended up a vaguely "new-agey" humanist, living for myself.

How do you know that it was God who made the change? Could it be that your belief in a god and the community of believers that really made the change? Is there something wrong with humanism? We don't all live for ourselves. In fact, how do you know that you would be selfish without a belief in god?

[GentleDove]

God changed my heart (which, in Christianity, includes the mind...please don't wonder if I mean the circulatory organ that pumps blood ), and He saved me. (Ezek. 36:26) Otherwise, I probably would have ended up a vaguely "new-agey" humanist, living for myself.

How do you know that it was God who made the change?

The Bible says believers are made by God through the hearing of the Word and the work of the Holy Spirit. I heard the Word, and my heart was changed, just as the Bible said. After years of failed perfectionism, I was free because of Christ, just as the Bible said. God said it in the Bible and then He proved it to me in my inner experience and my outward life.

Could it be that your belief in a god and the community of believers that really made the change?

It makes no more sense to say I was an unbeliever who caused myself to change from an unbeliever to a believer, than to say the universe did not exist and then it created itself and then it did exist. I used to think Christian believers were stupid or possibly brainwashed, and that I was ten times more enlightened and intelligent than they were. There was nothing in me that caused me to move from an unbeliever to a believer.

For the record, I was neither raised in nor spent any time in a community of believers; I was raised by alcoholic humanists who I love dearly (my parents) and the humanistic Catholic/public school system. One day when I was in my late-twenties, I found a Bible by the dumpster, and I started reading it alone in my apartment. I felt no peer pressure at all to become a Christian; rather the contrary, if anything.

Is there something wrong with humanism? We don't all live for ourselves. In fact, how do you know that you would be selfish without a belief in god?

Humanism to me means the belief that man is the measure of all things; that man, not God, is his own lawgiver and judge. That is, he lives autonomously, for self. It is a mindset and soul-condition that informs all he does and thinks. He is a slave to it, and can think no other way but to reject the God of the Bible. Many humanists try to "save" society or individuals, and believe they are doing good things and are very generous and charitable, but it is all by their own measure. And (since you asked) I think (now) it is a wrong view of self and a wrong view of God.

I would be selfish without God because that is how I always was, despite all my best efforts, before He made me love Him. Also, I wanted to believe that man could come up with and execute the solutions for problems, even death, eventually. That was why I liked evolution and the new-agey, spiritual-evolution ideas. However, as the Bible says, the truth is that selfishness flows out of the heart of individuals, and we (humans) are incapable of choosing God, apart from His grace.

[cnorman18]

I have to take exception to one statement here:

Humanism to me means the belief that man is the measure of all things; that man, not God, is his own lawgiver and judge.

Now that seems to me to be fair and accurate; and wise. It's also very close to the approach of modern Judaism. The ethics of Judaism are not moral because they came from God, but because wise humans have examined and affirmed, and sometimes revised, them through debate and discussion over centuries. That was the job we were given, in Jewish belief; to use our brains and figure things out for ourselves, with the assistance, but not the veto, of the tradition. We are not to stop thinking and worship a book.

Further, the dignity, freedom and life of the individual human being IS the highest value in Judaism. Period, full stop.

So: so far, so good. BUT, this does not logically follow:

That is, he lives autonomously, for self.

No. Simply, no. Rationality and concern for humanity and human values does not equal selfishness or self-centeredness. Humanism - and modern Judaism - are OTHER-oriented, not self-oriented. This is as much a stereotype of atheism/humanism as

A case could be made that fundamentalist Christianity is the most profoundly self-centered religion on the planet, next to self-worship itself; when the central concern is believing the right things in order to go to Heaven, and that trumps all other concerns - like, say, feeding the hungry and clothing the naked, sheltering the homeless and freeing the oppressed - what else can it be called but selfish?

[McCulloch]

How do you know that it was God who made the change?

The Bible says believers are made by God through the hearing of the Word and the work of the Holy Spirit. I heard the Word, and my heart was changed, just as the Bible said. After years of failed perfectionism, I was free because of Christ, just as the Bible said. God said it in the Bible and then He proved it to me in my inner experience and my outward life.

You expected to have a change of heart and you got one. You then attribute it to this god in whom you trusted to make this change.

For the record, I was neither raised in nor spent any time in a community of believers; I was raised by alcoholic humanists who I love dearly (my parents) and the humanistic Catholic/public school system. One day when I was in my late-twenties, I found a Bible by the dumpster, and I started reading it alone in my apartment. I felt no peer pressure at all to become a Christian; rather the contrary, if anything.

You found your secular life lacking in meaning and fulfillment. You got a Bible along with the notion that it does provide meaning and fulfillment to so many people.

Is there something wrong with humanism? We don't all live for ourselves. In fact, how do you know that you would be selfish without a belief in god?

Humanism to me means the belief that man is the measure of all things; that man, not God, is his own lawgiver and judge. That is, he lives autonomously, for self.

Yes, humanity makes its own laws, within the framework of the natural laws. To pretend otherwise is folly. None of us live autonomously. Nor do we live collectively autonomously. We are a part of the natural environment part of the ecosystem of this planet. According to Christian theology, the animals and plants were given to us by a god for our benefit. According to humanism we are an integral part of the planetary ecosystem. Which point of view appears to express that humanity is autonomous?

It is a mindset and soul-condition that informs all he does and thinks. He is a slave to it, and can think no other way but to reject the God of the Bible.

The humanist mindset is informed by the principle of free inquiry. Humanism recognizes that reliable knowledge of the world and ourselves arises through a continuing process, of observation, evaluation and revision. The revealed religions, on the other hand, are slaves to whichever text they have chosen to regard as divine revelation. They are allowed to think and reason, but only within the bounds imposed by their revelation.

Many humanists try to "save" society or individuals, and believe they are doing good things and are very generous and charitable, but it is all by their own measure.

You are applying Christian theological terms to what we do, and perhaps giving a wrong impression. We generally do not try to save or redeem society or individuals. We merely attempt to improve things. If things can be changed so that the subsequent state provides more happiness than the previous state, then it is an improvement.

Of course it is by our own measure, what other measure do we have? God's? What reliable evidence do we have of what any of the gods might think?

And (since you asked) I think (now) it is a wrong view of self and a wrong view of God.

Thank you for your opinion.

I would be selfish without God because that is how I always was, despite all my best efforts, before He made me love Him. Also, I wanted to believe that man could come up with and execute the solutions for problems, even death, eventually. That was why I liked evolution and the new-agey, spiritual-evolution ideas.

No wonder you found yourself disillusioned. If solutions are to be found to humanity's problems, than those solutions must lie in human thought and action rather than divine intervention. God is not going to deliver.

However, as the Bible says, the truth is that selfishness flows out of the heart of individuals, and we (humans) are incapable of choosing God, apart from His grace.

That's hardly fair is it? God has granted you his grace to choose him yet God must have also withheld his grace from those who do not choose him.