For believers only please...

[lorene]

Did Jesus have flesh? Of course He had a body and in that regard flesh, but I am meaning flesh like did He have to war with His flesh or rather sin in His flesh?(Could He have sin in the flesh and still be sinless?)

could the first temptation be a sign of His fleshly warfare?

[riverslivnwtr]

I am one of the minority of conservative Christians and this is an interesting question. What did it mean for Jesus to be tempted, since he was without sin and unable to sin? Was the struggle real or only external? How much did he want to do things that were contrary to His Father's will such as fast during the 40 days in the wilderness? I don't think we can know for sure since scripture is not explicit, but I believe that since it is stated that Jesus was tempted in every way, yet without sin, there was real suffering in denying himself, while there was not any possibility that he would indulge his flesh sinfully, since he is God in human flesh. I don't have a real handle on the answer, but thanks for asking it.

Jesus became sin in the flesh on the cross. but before that he was tempted in the wilderness. I suppose to demonstrate how sin could not rule over him..

In three point there, he was tempted. When he was tempted to prove that he was the son of God; he responded that it is written. When he was tempted to test , he responded it is written. When he was tempted to worship another for the glory of all the world, he responded , it is written.

In those three he revealed to us..The means of defeating temptation is to have the laws of God written in our hearts..

Notice before Jesus ever went out to preach or teach, the laws of God are written in his heart and he established it in the fast.....he then went and provided unconventional instructions as to how to function in the Kingdom of heaven..

[ThatGirlAgain]

I believe attempts where made to tempt Jesus. But Jesus was never under any temptation to give into temptation because He was sinless and was not fleshly in that aspect.

To state that Jesus was tempted as we are tempted, that is He had to struggle or engage in a war of conscience to resist an impure desire. Is pretty much a denial of the divine nature of Jesus.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

The Council of Chalcedon in 451 established the doctrine that Jesus was both completely human and completely divine. Jesus was of course without original sin, which is the cause of much temptation. But being completely human (as well as divine) it is not impossible that he would be subject to some form of temptation. Fasting for forty days would certainly make one's body hungry and the human side would be very happy if those stones became bread if the subject happened to be raised. But being on a mission - and also knowing who his Tempter was and what he was after - Jesus was able to resist that temptation. Looking at it that way, the divine nature probably would not need to even get involved in rejecting that temptation.

As for what other temptations may have arisen after the return from the wilderness, we simply do not know what they may have been. But it is reasonable to assume that Jesus did resist them. We need not even invoke a state of sinlessness or a divine nature to explain that, just the ordinary human ability to resist temptation if we really want to.

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[Slopeshoulder]

Isn't the fasting for 40 days/desert/temptation story really an account of ascetic practice, turned into a narrative about Jesus' triumph? the idea that it literally happened, and the move to somehow formulize it into doctrine seem beside the point. the meaning of the story and how it functions in the tradition seems to be more the point.

[Darias]

I believe attempts where made to tempt Jesus. But Jesus was never under any temptation to give into temptation because He was sinless and was not fleshly in that aspect.

To state that Jesus was tempted as we are tempted, that is He had to struggle or engage in a war of conscience to resist an impure desire. Is pretty much a denial of the divine nature of Jesus.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

So, you're saying that this is false?

Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. For because he himself has suffered when tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.

If you are claiming that Jesus was never tempted in the attempt to defend the doctrine of the Trinity, you are doing so at the expense of this passage.

If Jesus was never tempted to "sin" -- then he wasn't human. So much for being "made like men in every respect."

If His divine nature made him invincible to temptation, suffering, etc., then his whole life on this earth must have been a piece of cake. I suppose he never had the temptation to back out of dying on the cross -- oh wait...

When you take the human element out of Jesus, you end up with a deity that humans cannot identify with on any level.

Jesus was a human being who had the same feelings, desires, and temptations as anyone else who's part of our species.

But you see that's the problem with "fully God and fully man" -- two halfs make a whole -- two wholes do not.

If you are fully human, you aren't God, and vice versa.

So either Jesus wasn't fully human, or he wasn't God. You can believe what you want, but I'm gonna go ahead and say Jesus was a human like the rest of us.

[ThatGirlAgain]

Isn't the fasting for 40 days/desert/temptation story really an account of ascetic practice, turned into a narrative about Jesus' triumph? the idea that it literally happened, and the move to somehow formulize it into doctrine seem beside the point. the meaning of the story and how it functions in the tradition seems to be more the point.

In point of fact the origin of the story is irrelevant to this thread. The sub-forum is Questions About a Belief and the OP requested "believers only". Although I technically violated the OP's request, being an ex-believer, I nonetheless responded within the bounds of a Christian belief system.

Your idea might do better on the Christianity and Apologetics sub-forum. Please no offense intended. Just a matter of ground rules. Don't want no trouble with the law.

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[Usward]

could the first temptation be a sign of His fleshly warfare?

Holy Kiss: Grace unto you, and peace,
from God our Father and the Lord JC.

Indeed, God neither tempts nor can be tempted;
And God does not make sides to have warfare,
nor ever take any side in any foolish sides war,
for sides wars have side effects to both sides.

Eg: Thomas put his hand in the "side" effect of risen Jesus,
which reveals his resurrection didn't deal with the side effect.
So we should NOT be like divisional warring two Sons Jesus,
but rather like peaceful Christ who sitteth "above" all sides wars.
For only when "above" side effects of sides wars is it "harmless".
Details here: http://www.godshew.org/RevelatorySermons21.html

Eg: both sides of children vs children get "cast out": Matthew 8:12;
so be neither sort of children vs children having contention; for the
consequences of contention are indignation, wrath, tribulation, anguish.

Know the truth makes you free of believe stuff,
for believers believe all sorts of erroneous things.
So let's all be friends k-now, instead of know not servants: Jn 15:15.

K-now what? that where and when no law, there and then no f-law;
And the end to endure unto, already written, is the end of the law:

The GRACE of our Lord Jesus Christ [be/is] with you all. Amen.

[riverslivnwtr]

Isn't the fasting for 40 days/desert/temptation story really an account of ascetic practice, turned into a narrative about Jesus' triumph? the idea that it literally happened, and the move to somehow formulize it into doctrine seem beside the point. the meaning of the story and how it functions in the tradition seems to be more the point.

Jesus is our example..

he demonstrates how to over come temptation by the sentences which addressed each temptation..and what he said is of the utmost importance as I see it because I saw in what said to be of supreme caliber when you take into account his being the only successful against a tempter...

he established the Law of God as his guide...and used it as light in this dark world..
he went only by what was written..and in the proper context so that we who should come after him could follow on in his steps..

[Slopeshoulder]

Isn't the fasting for 40 days/desert/temptation story really an account of ascetic practice, turned into a narrative about Jesus' triumph? the idea that it literally happened, and the move to somehow formulize it into doctrine seem beside the point. the meaning of the story and how it functions in the tradition seems to be more the point.

Jesus is our example..

he demonstrates how to over come temptation by the sentences which addressed each temptation..and what he said is of the utmost importance as I see it because I saw in what said to be of supreme caliber when you take into account his being the only successful against a tempter...

he established the Law of God as his guide...and used it as light in this dark world..
he went only by what was written..and in the proper context so that we who should come after him could follow on in his steps..

I agree.
Still doesn't mean it happened or needed to happen. It's a GREAT story.

[riverslivnwtr]

Isn't the fasting for 40 days/desert/temptation story really an account of ascetic practice, turned into a narrative about Jesus' triumph? the idea that it literally happened, and the move to somehow formulize it into doctrine seem beside the point. the meaning of the story and how it functions in the tradition seems to be more the point.

Jesus is our example..

he demonstrates how to over come temptation by the sentences which addressed each temptation..and what he said is of the utmost importance as I see it because I saw in what said to be of supreme caliber when you take into account his being the only successful against a tempter...

he established the Law of God as his guide...and used it as light in this dark world..
he went only by what was written..and in the proper context so that we who should come after him could follow on in his steps..

I agree.
Still doesn't mean it happened or needed to happen. It's a GREAT story.

Well it does means that it happened, because it unlocks the whole foundation of the bible..The foundation of living by what is written , and is the only source of how to exactly achieve that success..It is wisdom beyond the comprehension of many a lofty idealed saints, who never understood this basic principal, only revealed in Jesus ..who cited the Law as the only means of defeating the enemy with the very sentences he cited in the temptation..
man shall not live by bread alone but by every word of God...
Thou shalt not tempt the Lord Thy God,
and Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and him only shall thou serve...

These are the three points of temptation which Jesus susceeded gloriously...

[Slopeshoulder]

Isn't the fasting for 40 days/desert/temptation story really an account of ascetic practice, turned into a narrative about Jesus' triumph? the idea that it literally happened, and the move to somehow formulize it into doctrine seem beside the point. the meaning of the story and how it functions in the tradition seems to be more the point.

Jesus is our example..

he demonstrates how to over come temptation by the sentences which addressed each temptation..and what he said is of the utmost importance as I see it because I saw in what said to be of supreme caliber when you take into account his being the only successful against a tempter...

he established the Law of God as his guide...and used it as light in this dark world..
he went only by what was written..and in the proper context so that we who should come after him could follow on in his steps..

I agree.
Still doesn't mean it happened or needed to happen. It's a GREAT story.

Well it does means that it happened, because it unlocks the whole foundation of the bible..The foundation of living by what is written , and is the only source of how to exactly achieve that success..It is wisdom beyond the comprehension of many a lofty idealed saints, who never understood this basic principal, only revealed in Jesus ..who cited the Law as the only means of defeating the enemy with the very sentences he cited in the temptation..
man shall not live by bread alone but by every word of God...
Thou shalt not tempt the Lord Thy God,
and Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and him only shall thou serve...

These are the three points of temptation which Jesus susceeded gloriously...

It doesn't establish any key if one is not a literalist.
You've not established historicity, you've only made a circular argument based on a faith claim.
There is no devil. He's a metaphor.
The story is a magic legend. About Jesus' character, about the human challenge, and more. He's seen a s a god-man.
But it didn't happen.