Evolving perfection. Do I understand God. Are we all perfect

[Greatest I Am]

Evolving perfection. Do I understand God. Are we all perfect?

In my search for God, I began as a non believer. That being said, I was still driven to reason with believers to see if they were on the right road to knowing God.

After about 36 years, I gave up on arguments and discussions of God with believers because they could not deal with my objections as to why their God was less than perfect.

I basically began to have internal discussions with myself because in most cases I could reconcile may own points for and against God better than believer could. Kind of a strange position for sure as a non believer but I created a paradigm or world view from a starting point that God had to be and that if there was a God at all, all that was had to be perfect.
No self respecting God would have it otherwise.

To make this paradigm work, I had to reconcile the existence of evil and the bad things that I saw around me as well. Not an easy task but I did it.

I read a number of Bibles and Holy books while I was seeking God and found some wisdom and knowledge within these works and have a grudging respect for all of them while at the same time, not reading them literally. In the case of the Bible, it is obvious that it should not be read literally. How can one do so when it begins with talking animals and ends with a seven headed monster. God would not use impossible and silly props.

Bibles have to be judged on the moral position they take or show.

Since the Christian Bible shows a distinct lack of justice or morals in dealing with women, Gays and slaves, there is enough ambiguity and injustice to discard it as a literal document and even perhaps as a moral one.

It may not have been 3000 years ago but it is certainly immoral by today's standards.

It did help to lead me to God but then I do not read it literally or believe it's characters to be real. They are and were always mean to be archetypes.


There are some passages that can and should be read literally because they apply to the reality that I now know exists for us all.

For example.

Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect:

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

2 Peter 3:9 KJ
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

John 8:7
So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

At about that time, after my paradigm seemed to cover all the bases, I forced my apotheosis and found God.
He confirmed my views and urged me to now think more demographically.

The pleasure and pain of the passing grade from the greatest teacher were worth all the years of mental toil.
Then the toil really began. That being, trying to convince others, with word alone, that the God I found is real.

There is evidence for the reality of God. This evidence you have to recognize and I cannot make you see it. You have to recognize it for yourself and I am pleased to point it out to you. The fist sign of God is all around us. Perfection. If you can get even a glimmer of it then we can reason together. If all you see is imperfection, just because there is evil and sin in the mix, then I cannot help with your apotheosis or rapprochement to God.

I know this sounds arrogant and brash but I cannot help that. I do have some arrogance now thanks to my apotheosis. Who could not be after touching the mind of God?

If you have found your own God in some book or Bible then enjoy Him. If you have doubts then I invite you to look at the God I found to see if some of your doubts can be assuaged.

When born, we can say that you were as perfect as nature and evolution could produce with the DNA at hand. You may or may not had had flaws but this would not negate the fact that nature and evolution did the best it could and that you were therefore as perfect as you could be. From that great beginning, you evolved your perfection to a higher state over time and that that path is constant till your death.

Genesis 3:5
For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Genesis 3:22
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Corinthians 3:23
And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.


John 10:34
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

My question for you then is this.

Do you recognize that you are as perfect as you can be today, while always moving to a more perfect state over time?

Regards
DL

[Greatest I Am]

Evolving perfection. Do I understand God. Are we all perfect?



You seem to be stating your belief rather than asking a question. Since your mind is already made up there is little that you can learn at this point. However, it should be noted that in physical life as well as the spiritual life one cannot learn anything unless one is willing to learn.

To paraphrase AVATAR, if your cup is full you cannot be taught.

I take it you mean that those who believe they have found God in a book will never find Him and are stuck with what they have.


Regards
DL

Your original question asked if we are all perfect. What is perfection?

GOD IS NOT FOUND in a book or discussion of theology. These things, like a road map, can only point the way to one's ultimate goal. St. Paul wrote that "flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God".

There is no such thing as human perfection with regard to living up to God's standards. God can only be appropriated by accepting Christ and the spiritual perfection He has provided.

If God is perfect and so are His works, when exactly did it all back slide with God leading the way?
I was just going to post some thing to Jesus.
Note that I have not quite finished.
Why/Would the Father allow the Son to usurp His Kingdom?

When archetypal Jesus said, only through me, he more or less forced the old man to retire.

What’s up with that?



What, in the past, had been done by 3 heads, now would only be done by 1 Head.

I would guess that the holy ghost went along with chimera Jesus as a means of retaining relevance in a physical world. Through the perceptions of men.


A monotheistic system can only have one God.

Those who follow archetypal Jesus can no longer appeal to the Father for Aid, or Forgiveness, unless first being forgiven by chimera God/Jesus. Oops, I mean, gulp, Jesus/God.

We get the archetype chimera God.
The knock off instead of the original.

It is a good thing I do not take scripture literally or I would be annoyed.

God the Father began as Master of all that was.
Jesus/God has now made God the Father back slide, meaning that, though shall put no one above me, no longer applies.

Logic dictates that if there ever was a miracle working God, then He would not tolerate forced retirement and becoming #2, down from #1.

I mean, God has Pride.
Well, some of the time anyway.

I do not know your present situation, but if your son came to you, while in your prime of life and took away a very large part of your reality and reason for life, Judging Good and Evil in Gods case, in your case, use your imagination, then you would be some upset.

I do not think that the Original God would allow such foolishness from a chimera God.

God would become the running joke at the country club.
Get serious, God would not allow such nonsense from a hybrid God.

Would he and Why?

Whose got the miracles?


Regards
DL

[Choir Loft]

Evolving perfection. Do I understand God. Are we all perfect?



You seem to be stating your belief rather than asking a question. Since your mind is already made up there is little that you can learn at this point. However, it should be noted that in physical life as well as the spiritual life one cannot learn anything unless one is willing to learn.

To paraphrase AVATAR, if your cup is full you cannot be taught.

I take it you mean that those who believe they have found God in a book will never find Him and are stuck with what they have.


Regards
DL

Your original question asked if we are all perfect. What is perfection?

GOD IS NOT FOUND in a book or discussion of theology. These things, like a road map, can only point the way to one's ultimate goal. St. Paul wrote that "flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God".

There is no such thing as human perfection with regard to living up to God's standards. God can only be appropriated by accepting Christ and the spiritual perfection He has provided.

If God is perfect and so are His works, when exactly did it all back slide with God leading the way?
I was just going to post some thing to Jesus.
Note that I have not quite finished.
Why/Would the Father allow the Son to usurp His Kingdom?

When archetypal Jesus said, only through me, he more or less forced the old man to retire.

What’s up with that?



What, in the past, had been done by 3 heads, now would only be done by 1 Head.

I would guess that the holy ghost went along with chimera Jesus as a means of retaining relevance in a physical world. Through the perceptions of men.


A monotheistic system can only have one God.

Those who follow archetypal Jesus can no longer appeal to the Father for Aid, or Forgiveness, unless first being forgiven by chimera God/Jesus. Oops, I mean, gulp, Jesus/God.

We get the archetype chimera God.
The knock off instead of the original.

It is a good thing I do not take scripture literally or I would be annoyed.

God the Father began as Master of all that was.
Jesus/God has now made God the Father back slide, meaning that, though shall put no one above me, no longer applies.

Logic dictates that if there ever was a miracle working God, then He would not tolerate forced retirement and becoming #2, down from #1.

I mean, God has Pride.
Well, some of the time anyway.

I do not know your present situation, but if your son came to you, while in your prime of life and took away a very large part of your reality and reason for life, Judging Good and Evil in Gods case, in your case, use your imagination, then you would be some upset.

I do not think that the Original God would allow such foolishness from a chimera God.

God would become the running joke at the country club.
Get serious, God would not allow such nonsense from a hybrid God.

Would he and Why?

Whose got the miracles?


Regards
DL

My first post here stated an observation that your mind is firmly set and your opinions clearly stated as to the nature of God and the Bible. Your premise is incorrect and you have done yourself the disservice of disabling any possibility of learning otherwise.
As a result, you have placed yourself as far from the Kingdom of God as a man can get this side of the grave. You will never find God unless you change your attitude. That is unfortunate since you have many good qualities, but good qualities alone are insufficient tools to find God.

[Greatest I Am]

richardP

If the premise is not correct then you should correct it instead of just falling into dogma.

Try logic. It works for me.

Just when do you see God’s perfection time line being destroyed and why would God let it be destroyed thus causing Him to back slide?

Regards

[Choir Loft]

richardP

If the premise is not correct then you should correct it instead of just falling into dogma.

Try logic. It works for me.

Just when do you see God’s perfection time line being destroyed and why would God let it be destroyed thus causing Him to back slide?

Regards

God's work in the world is proceeding according to His plan. There is no deviation and no error. Everything is proceeding according to His plan.

If you wish to judge God's plan, then you would need to know it. You would also need to be able to plumb the depths of all He thinks and does. At that point you would be able to logically and rightly judge His actions. No man can understand God and therefore His acts cannot be rightly judged. If fact, this very notion goes to the root of the sin of Adam and Eve. They obtained the ability to decide right and wrong. The first thing they did was to judge God a liar. As a result they lost the friendship they had with Him as well as their original home.

If you determine that God had done something wrong, then you would have to bring Him before the court for punishment. How would you do that? In one instance God was indeed brought before the court; the sentence was death by public execution upon the cross. Once again human intention toward God is more hostile than God's actions toward humans.

On the third day Christ rose from the dead and granted to all who would do so, the ability to know Him personally just as Adam and Eve did before the first sin.

The question now is whether you wish to know God or simply fall back on your own decision to judge His acts as being somehow wrong. To date you have not demonstrated any willingness to know God. As a result you have condemned yourself by means of your own judgment.

Let me say that knowing God has been the finest experience of my life...far better than any sex and drugs I've known. That's a fact, not dogma.

[Greatest I Am]

richardP

If the premise is not correct then you should correct it instead of just falling into dogma.

Try logic. It works for me.

Just when do you see God’s perfection time line being destroyed and why would God let it be destroyed thus causing Him to back slide?

Regards

God's work in the world is proceeding according to His plan. There is no deviation and no error. Everything is proceeding according to His plan.

If you wish to judge God's plan, then you would need to know it. You would also need to be able to plumb the depths of all He thinks and does. At that point you would be able to logically and rightly judge His actions. No man can understand God and therefore His acts cannot be rightly judged. If fact, this very notion goes to the root of the sin of Adam and Eve. They obtained the ability to decide right and wrong. The first thing they did was to judge God a liar. As a result they lost the friendship they had with Him as well as their original home.

If you determine that God had done something wrong, then you would have to bring Him before the court for punishment. How would you do that? In one instance God was indeed brought before the court; the sentence was death by public execution upon the cross. Once again human intention toward God is more hostile than God's actions toward humans.

On the third day Christ rose from the dead and granted to all who would do so, the ability to know Him personally just as Adam and Eve did before the first sin.

The question now is whether you wish to know God or simply fall back on your own decision to judge His acts as being somehow wrong. To date you have not demonstrated any willingness to know God. As a result you have condemned yourself by means of your own judgment.

Let me say that knowing God has been the finest experience of my life...far better than any sex and drugs I've known. That's a fact, not dogma.

Thanks again for the dogmatic B S.

You say that God cannot be judged yet you have judged Him.

Rather a contradiction.

Regards
DL

[Choir Loft]

Let me say that knowing God has been the finest experience of my life...far better than any sex and drugs I've known. That's a fact, not dogma.

Thanks again for the dogmatic B S.

You say that God cannot be judged yet you have judged Him.

Rather a contradiction.

Regards
DL

We see by your remarks that you are a religious bigot and we wonder how much further your hatred extends.

As such you show no empathy for the truthful testimony of another human being simply because it touches a subject about which you know nothing. You are neither theologian, scientist nor adept in philosophy or logic. Your simple minded rejection of data which doesn't fit your limited scope of reality would be laughable if it wasn't so devoid of humanity.

I am here to exchange ideas and not to be called a liar even by one with so limited a mental capacity and with such narcissistic remarks as you.

You should know where your bigotry leads; the basis of Nazi-ism, Marxist-Stalinist Communism, racism of every sort both in America and abroad, the death of the scientific method and the dawn of a new intellectual dark age.

Not to mention a rejection of God and everything good He represents.

Nevertheless I wish to thank you for your remarks for they remind me that I need to redouble my devotion to Christ, lest I spend the rest of my life in intellectual and spiritual darkness where you have imprisoned yourself.

You are your own jailer and warden and there can be no worse condition for a man to live.

[McCulloch]

Moderator Warning

Thanks again for the dogmatic B S.

We see by your remarks that you are a religious bigot and we wonder how much further your hatred extends.

[...] one with so limited a mental capacity and with such narcissistic remarks as you.

Please review the Rules. 1. No personal attacks of any sort are allowed. Comments about another poster that are negative, condescending, frivolous or indicate in any way a lack of respect are not allowed.
2. Nothing "R" rated is allowed (this includes profanity and anything of sexual nature).
16. In general, all members are to be civil and respectful.

When the moderators feel the rules have been violated, a notice will frequently occur within the thread where the violation occurred, pointing out the violation and perhaps providing other moderator comments. Moderator warnings and comments are made publicly, within the thread, so that all members may see when and how the rules are being interpreted and enforced. However, note that any challenges or replies to moderator comments or warnings should be made via Private Message. This is so that threads do not get derailed into discussions about the rules.

[Greatest I Am]

richardP

I guess you do not like being caught in a contradiction.

Thanks for responding as a true Christian.

Regards
DL

[Choir Loft]

richardP

I guess you do not like being caught in a contradiction.

Thanks for responding as a true Christian.

Regards
DL

You know nothing of Christianity as your own bigoted remarks have proven.

I apologize for attempting to redirect you from the fires of Hell and your own foolishness. You will get what you deserve despite my efforts otherwise and despite your smug insults and lies, which the moderators choose to overlook because of their own agenda. My conscience is clear.

If Jesus Christ Himself were typing these messages I'm confident that the moderators would have a problem with His words. One cannot call a fool a fool these days unless the person receiving the insult is a Christian. The moderators will have their reward and you will most certainly have earned yours.

Enjoy your life and your self-centered view of Christianity while you have it, for at the end of your life not even the memory of it will remain to comfort you.

[McCulloch]

Moderator Warning

I guess you do not like being caught in a contradiction.

Thanks for responding as a true Christian.

You know nothing of Christianity as your own bigoted remarks have proven.

If Jesus Christ Himself were typing these messages I'm confident that the moderators would have a problem with His words. One cannot call a fool a fool these days unless the person receiving the insult is a Christian. The moderators will have their reward and you will most certainly have earned yours.

As far as I know, I am the only moderator involved in this childish spat, so your generalization about the moderators is unwarranted. I am an atheist, so you are correct in that even if Jesus of Nazareth were to post in these forums, I would hold him to the same rules of courtesy and evidence as any other debater. Speaking of Jesus, what was it he said about people who call others fools? I might suggest that you would make more headway with your position if you refrain from name calling and demonstrate that you are right with reason, logic and evidence. It's a crazy idea, but it just might work.

Please review the Rules. 1. No personal attacks of any sort are allowed. Comments about another poster that are negative, condescending, frivolous or indicate in any way a lack of respect are not allowed.
15. Appeals and challenges to decisions made by moderators should not be made in public. The proper channel is to send a PM to a moderator and to discuss it directly and in private.
16. In general, all members are to be civil and respectful.

When the moderators feel the rules have been violated, a notice will frequently occur within the thread where the violation occurred, pointing out the violation and perhaps providing other moderator comments. Moderator warnings and comments are made publicly, within the thread, so that all members may see when and how the rules are being interpreted and enforced. However, note that any challenges or replies to moderator comments or warnings should be made via Private Message. This is so that threads do not get derailed into discussions about the rules.