Why do some people believe mormons are not christian?

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Are mormons christian?

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Kuan
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Why do some people believe mormons are not christian?

Post #1

Post by Kuan »

So, you can probably tell I'm Mormon and I'm willing to debate my religion or answer questions. The purpose of this thread though is that I have had many people tell me I'm not Christian even though I believe in Jesus. I'm wondering why that is. Thanks for any answers!

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Post #141

Post by Burninglight »

fredonly wrote:
Burninglight wrote: You would believe it if you saw and heard with your own eyes and ears. Well then how do you know you are not imagining it or if the chemical balance in your brain is not off. I submit to you that even if you saw and heard you wouldn't believe because if you saw it alone it is not falsifiable and cannot be repeated. There are some thing in life that can only be accessed by faith. For without faith it is impossible to please God. I don't know what cause you to be agnostic, but at least I see more hope for agnosticism than atheism.
Don't define my skepticism for me. I have a few properly basic beliefs, and this includes a trust in the validity of logic and a qualified trust in my senses. Regarding my sensory input, it's not a certain faith, like some people profess in God – I'm willing to hear arguments that my seeing or hearing are mistaken (that's part of being married ;-) ) If I have a chemical imbalance that is undetected, and this results in hallucinations – then so be it; I'll be in error. I'm not that extreme a skeptic – I simply have a plausibility hurdle. I gave a brief sketch of my road to agnosticism here.
BTW, I have spoken to people that I had considered to be intelligent and of a sound mind, and one of them is still my friend today. They saw a space ship of some sought come up close to them. One friend rebuked it in Jesus' name, and it left, the other was knock down by it. I believe their testimony. You wouldn't, that is the difference between us!
You are right, I probably would not believe a friend who told me this. It is an extremely low likelihood that there is intelligent life, more scientifically advanced than our own, within a traversable distance from earth, that would somehow know to come here (we can barely detect the existence of planet around other stars), and that they would expend the resources, and undergo the risk, to travel all this way. Still, it's not impossible.
Well, even if there were a chemical imbalance in your brain when you had an encounter with God, that doesn't mean you didn't have that encounter. God is not limited even though your brain is. No pun intended.

As far as your not believing some intelligent life form from another planet was the source of what my friends saw, I would tend to agree with you, but I believe they really saw and had that encounter with something supernatural even though no one can explain it.
If I had to guess, I would say it was demonic activity. Demons are forces of energy that can change form, and they often do to lead people astray. Look at what happen to Muhammad. The demon that impersonated Gabriel who is a holy Angel started a diabolic Islamic movement that has the potential to take over the world.

It doesn't matter whether you believe in the spiritual realm. When soliders go out to battle they could say they don't believe in war. All the same, if they don't duck they will be shot and killed. It is appointed once unto men to die. After that, then comes the judgment. We either accept Christ now while we are alive and remain or at our death Satan claims our soul.

Have you ever ask God to help your unbelief? Jesus said, "Ask and you shall receive." It is also written "You receive not because you ask not" It couldn't hurt to ask my friend or could it?
TC

PS... For all others of you that believe my friends' testimonies, and if you are afraid. I would say. Just because you're paranoid, that doesn't mean they are not really out to get you! :shock: :blink: :roll:

:lol:

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Why Would It Matter?

Post #142

Post by OneMightyRiver »

I know you posted this question in 2009 which is like 3 years ago so I'm probably too late to weigh in but here is my two cents...

For ME, the bible tells ME that if I exalt Christ, God will draw all men unto himself. So if I, like the Apostle Paul, preach Christ and Christ crucified, I'm trusting God to do the work of persuasion. I also believe the the Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth.

So when it comes to what others believe, I promote Christ and his teachings, and pray for all to be receive the Holy Spirit. Don't concern yourself with whether or not someone deems you "in or out." That to me speaks of men and their religions. Truth has become someones interpretations of etc. When in fact: TRUTH is a person, his name is Jesus the Christ, the Messiah, etc. Its about a relationship with that person. Its all about a heart connecting with Jesus, and I am human so all I can see is the outward appearance, not someone's heart. So I can't say whether or not they are connecting with Jesus. I can just talk about how to connect with Jesus.

For example, I read emails from friends to get to know them more. So when I read the bible I read to get to know the author of the book. I do such and such (practices) because my friend Jesus likes these things and we do them together, just as lovers do activities together to spend time with one another and get to know each other better.

Many professing Christians aren't and many that don't profess to be Christians are. Professing means nothing when its about what's in a person's heart. Sure, there is fruit too. But when a seed is planted, it first dies, and the soil looks barren, before the sprouting of growth.

As simple as I can I am just questioning how this topic promotes the kingdom and righteousness? How is love or glory being given to the Lord? There is only one Jesus so as far as I am concerned, I'm nothing like Jesus, so my thoughts and actions can always use improving. Many of my ideas here in this very post, can be in error. But that's what makes the good news so good!

Right doctrine does not save you; believing in jesus does. How well I follow Jesus does not determine how close I become with him, its about faith in Jesus. I can be hitler and still go to heaven and be with Jesus! How, its faith that makes you right with him! So have faith and pray to Jesus! You'll be better off then trying to convince anyone of what you believe! But you can still share what you think. So thanks for sharing. But it doesn't matter. Pursue him and his kingdom! :D

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Re: Why Would It Matter?

Post #143

Post by Burninglight »

OneMightyRiver wrote: I know you posted this question in 2009 which is like 3 years ago so I'm probably too late to weigh in but here is my two cents...

For ME, the bible tells ME that if I exalt Christ, God will draw all men unto himself. So if I, like the Apostle Paul, preach Christ and Christ crucified, I'm trusting God to do the work of persuasion. I also believe the the Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth.

So when it comes to what others believe, I promote Christ and his teachings, and pray for all to be receive the Holy Spirit. Don't concern yourself with whether or not someone deems you "in or out." That to me speaks of men and their religions. Truth has become someones interpretations of etc. When in fact: TRUTH is a person, his name is Jesus the Christ, the Messiah, etc. Its about a relationship with that person. Its all about a heart connecting with Jesus, and I am human so all I can see is the outward appearance, not someone's heart. So I can't say whether or not they are connecting with Jesus. I can just talk about how to connect with Jesus.

For example, I read emails from friends to get to know them more. So when I read the bible I read to get to know the author of the book. I do such and such (practices) because my friend Jesus likes these things and we do them together, just as lovers do activities together to spend time with one another and get to know each other better.

Many professing Christians aren't and many that don't profess to be Christians are. Professing means nothing when its about what's in a person's heart. Sure, there is fruit too. But when a seed is planted, it first dies, and the soil looks barren, before the sprouting of growth.

As simple as I can I am just questioning how this topic promotes the kingdom and righteousness? How is love or glory being given to the Lord? There is only one Jesus so as far as I am concerned, I'm nothing like Jesus, so my thoughts and actions can always use improving. Many of my ideas here in this very post, can be in error. But that's what makes the good news so good!

Right doctrine does not save you; believing in jesus does. How well I follow Jesus does not determine how close I become with him, its about faith in Jesus. I can be hitler and still go to heaven and be with Jesus! How, its faith that makes you right with him! So have faith and pray to Jesus! You'll be better off then trying to convince anyone of what you believe! But you can still share what you think. So thanks for sharing. But it doesn't matter. Pursue him and his kingdom! :D
That sounds right to me. Except Hitler would've had to really repented in his heart to be saved. I doubt he did that. God is not mocked what a man sows he reaps, He knows how to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment. No one gets away. But it is true it doesn't matter how evil one's sin is. Faith in Christ will show itself with repentance and that person will be saved. It is all about what He did not us!

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Re: Why do some people believe mormons are not christian?

Post #144

Post by wiploc »

Kuan wrote: So, you can probably tell I'm Mormon and I'm willing to debate my religion or answer questions. The purpose of this thread though is that I have had many people tell me I'm not Christian even though I believe in Jesus. I'm wondering why that is. Thanks for any answers!
Muslims believe in Jesus, but that doesn't make them Christian.

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Re: Why do some people believe mormons are not christian?

Post #145

Post by dianaiad »

wiploc wrote:
Kuan wrote: So, you can probably tell I'm Mormon and I'm willing to debate my religion or answer questions. The purpose of this thread though is that I have had many people tell me I'm not Christian even though I believe in Jesus. I'm wondering why that is. Thanks for any answers!
Muslims believe in Jesus, but that doesn't make them Christian.
Muslims do not believe that Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God, the Messiah and the Savior of the world. Mormons do...and as far as I am aware, that is one of the requirements of Christianity according to the folks who most vehemently deny me the right to call myself 'Christian."

Of course, my own definition of "Christian" is "one who follows the teachings of Jesus as he believes them to be, and who calls himself a Christian." I realize that expands the classification quite a bit, allowing even for atheists who simply admire Jesus' teachings and who identify with the cultural aspects of Christianity (their families, for instance) to be as Christian as the most born again fundamentalist. "Christian" is a classification of belief, not a declaration of salvation.

Besides, those guys (the fundamentalists who most vehemently deny my own Christianity) actually claim that CATHOLICS are not Christian.

Given that, I should give a hoot what they think of my own Christianity, or allow them to decide whether or not I am one?

I don't think so. After all, I think that they are all wet on almost everything else; why should I think them correct about that?

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Re: Why do some people believe mormons are not christian?

Post #146

Post by wiploc »

dianaiad wrote:
wiploc wrote:
Kuan wrote: So, you can probably tell I'm Mormon and I'm willing to debate my religion or answer questions. The purpose of this thread though is that I have had many people tell me I'm not Christian even though I believe in Jesus. I'm wondering why that is. Thanks for any answers!
Muslims believe in Jesus, but that doesn't make them Christian.
Muslims do not believe that Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God, the Messiah and the Savior of the world. Mormons do...and as far as I am aware, that is one of the requirements of Christianity according to the folks who most vehemently deny me the right to call myself 'Christian."
I would never deny you that right.


Of course, my own definition of "Christian" is "one who follows the teachings of Jesus as he believes them to be, and who calls himself a Christian." I realize that expands the classification quite a bit, allowing even for atheists who simply admire Jesus' teachings and who identify with the cultural aspects of Christianity (their families, for instance) to be as Christian as the most born again fundamentalist. "Christian" is a classification of belief, not a declaration of salvation.

Besides, those guys (the fundamentalists who most vehemently deny my own Christianity) actually claim that CATHOLICS are not Christian.
"Catholics are nice guys, some of them, but just not going to Heaven," is what I remember from my time in a Baptist Church. I don't remember anyone saying they weren't Christians. (This is not to contradict what you said. I'm just supplementing it in so far as I can.)


Given that, I should give a hoot what they think of my own Christianity, or allow them to decide whether or not I am one?
Well said!

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Re: Why do some people believe mormons are not christian?

Post #147

Post by dianaiad »

wiploc wrote:
dianaiad wrote:
wiploc wrote:
Kuan wrote: So, you can probably tell I'm Mormon and I'm willing to debate my religion or answer questions. The purpose of this thread though is that I have had many people tell me I'm not Christian even though I believe in Jesus. I'm wondering why that is. Thanks for any answers!
Muslims believe in Jesus, but that doesn't make them Christian.
Muslims do not believe that Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God, the Messiah and the Savior of the world. Mormons do...and as far as I am aware, that is one of the requirements of Christianity according to the folks who most vehemently deny me the right to call myself 'Christian."
I would never deny you that right.
That's good...because doing so would be rather like me denying George the right to be the future King of England: I can deny all I want to, but y'know what? In spite of me, the kid's gonna be King, absent tragedy and political mayhem. ;)

Oh, one small addendum to my previous post regarding how Muslims think of Jesus: they don't claim to be Christians, either. Indeed, in some nations, a Muslim deciding that he is a Christian is a death penalty offense.

I guess I snapped irritable on this because it's a standard ploy, for those who would deny me membership in the Christian world, to compare Mormonism to Islam...or rather, Mormons to Muslims. there is precious little we have in common, doctrinally or in practice. Mind you, if a MUSLIM pointed out any similarities he found between our beliefs, I would not be insulted, or if a comparison were actually academically made with real instances...but in general, this comparison is made only to exclude and insult Mormons, using one target of bias to disparage another.


wiploc wrote:
Of course, my own definition of "Christian" is "one who follows the teachings of Jesus as he believes them to be, and who calls himself a Christian." I realize that expands the classification quite a bit, allowing even for atheists who simply admire Jesus' teachings and who identify with the cultural aspects of Christianity (their families, for instance) to be as Christian as the most born again fundamentalist. "Christian" is a classification of belief, not a declaration of salvation.

Besides, those guys (the fundamentalists who most vehemently deny my own Christianity) actually claim that CATHOLICS are not Christian.
"Catholics are nice guys, some of them, but just not going to Heaven," is what I remember from my time in a Baptist Church. I don't remember anyone saying they weren't Christians. (This is not to contradict what you said. I'm just supplementing it in so far as I can.)
Well, they got the 'nice guys' right...Catholics, I notice, are kinder to the Baptists. ;)

Oh, and Mormons don't consign either group to hellfire and brimstone.

wiploc wrote:
Given that, I should give a hoot what they think of my own Christianity, or allow them to decide whether or not I am one?
Well said!
Yeah, well....thanks. I think I'm going to have to put a guard over my 'Mormons aren't Christians" and "Mormons are the same as Muslims" hot button.

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Post #148

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TheFoolForHimAboveAll wrote: Historically, only until recently have Mormons wanted to be called Christians, preferring not to be included with Christian denominations, which Joseph Smith said were, "all wrong ... all their creeds were an admonition in his sight, and that those professors (Christians) were all corrupt" (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith, 2:18-19).

...................

Believe whatever you choose, but choose wisely.
None of what you wrote has any impact on whether Mormons are Christians - except for those who choose your definition, as if the Bible is the sole authority. You could simply say "Mormons aren't Christians because we don't see them as such". The Book of Mormon is clearly about being followers of Christ+.

Mormons can be Christians, but Christians (as you think of them) can't be Mormons. You have a fundamentalist view - which you prefer, while Mormons have their own fundamentalist view.

This is a religious squabble that is meaningless. There is no God - but there can still be Christians and fundamentalists. There will always be someone who calls themselves something and some group will say "Well, they aren't REAL 'whatevers'".

It's what humans do. It's "In Group/Out Group" behavior. It's the same impulse as racism or xenophobia.
Thinking about God's opinions and thinking about your own opinions uses an identical thought process. - Tomas Rees

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Post #149

Post by dianaiad »

Ooberman wrote:
TheFoolForHimAboveAll wrote: Historically, only until recently have Mormons wanted to be called Christians, preferring not to be included with Christian denominations, which Joseph Smith said were, "all wrong ... all their creeds were an admonition in his sight, and that those professors (Christians) were all corrupt" (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith, 2:18-19).

...................

Believe whatever you choose, but choose wisely.
None of what you wrote has any impact on whether Mormons are Christians - except for those who choose your definition, as if the Bible is the sole authority. You could simply say "Mormons aren't Christians because we don't see them as such". The Book of Mormon is clearly about being followers of Christ+.
Not to mention that he's all wet about Mormons ever wanting 'not to be called Christians." We simply didn't want to be called Baptists or Presbyterians or Catholics or Quakers. Ah, well.....
Ooberman wrote:Mormons can be Christians, but Christians (as you think of them) can't be Mormons. You have a fundamentalist view - which you prefer, while Mormons have their own fundamentalist view.
That depends on your definition of 'fundamentalist." True, Mormons have a sort of 'fundamentalist' set of folks, who tend to be polygamist and 'communist," (that is, communal living, not the political definition). The largest, by far, group is neither. I guess 'fundamentalist' is a pretty squishy term, generally meaning "we don't like 'em and think they're stupid."
Ooberman wrote:This is a religious squabble that is meaningless.
I agree...except that historically, those who determined that 'Mormons aren't Christians" used that to justify some pretty nasty stuff done to Mormons.
Ooberman wrote:There is no God -
(perk)...ah...a 'positive claim!" Do I get to say, here, "prove it," the way some posters insist that those who claim that there is one prove THAT?

Sorry...sidetracked...
Ooberman wrote:but there can still be Christians and fundamentalists. There will always be someone who calls themselves something and some group will say "Well, they aren't REAL 'whatevers'".


It's what humans do. It's "In Group/Out Group" behavior. It's the same impulse as racism or xenophobia.
This is absolutely true: if you wish to persecute someone, you must first make him 'other.' It's a universal law.

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Post #150

Post by Ooberman »

dianaiad wrote:
Ooberman wrote:
TheFoolForHimAboveAll wrote: Historically, only until recently have Mormons wanted to be called Christians, preferring not to be included with Christian denominations, which Joseph Smith said were, "all wrong ... all their creeds were an admonition in his sight, and that those professors (Christians) were all corrupt" (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith, 2:18-19).

...................

Believe whatever you choose, but choose wisely.
None of what you wrote has any impact on whether Mormons are Christians - except for those who choose your definition, as if the Bible is the sole authority. You could simply say "Mormons aren't Christians because we don't see them as such". The Book of Mormon is clearly about being followers of Christ+.
Not to mention that he's all wet about Mormons ever wanting 'not to be called Christians." We simply didn't want to be called Baptists or Presbyterians or Catholics or Quakers. Ah, well.....
Ooberman wrote:Mormons can be Christians, but Christians (as you think of them) can't be Mormons. You have a fundamentalist view - which you prefer, while Mormons have their own fundamentalist view.
That depends on your definition of 'fundamentalist." True, Mormons have a sort of 'fundamentalist' set of folks, who tend to be polygamist and 'communist," (that is, communal living, not the political definition). The largest, by far, group is neither. I guess 'fundamentalist' is a pretty squishy term, generally meaning "we don't like 'em and think they're stupid."
Ooberman wrote:This is a religious squabble that is meaningless.
I agree...except that historically, those who determined that 'Mormons aren't Christians" used that to justify some pretty nasty stuff done to Mormons.
Ooberman wrote:There is no God -
(perk)...ah...a 'positive claim!" Do I get to say, here, "prove it," the way some posters insist that those who claim that there is one prove THAT?

Sorry...sidetracked...
Ooberman wrote:but there can still be Christians and fundamentalists. There will always be someone who calls themselves something and some group will say "Well, they aren't REAL 'whatevers'".


It's what humans do. It's "In Group/Out Group" behavior. It's the same impulse as racism or xenophobia.
This is absolutely true: if you wish to persecute someone, you must first make him 'other.' It's a universal law.

I always find we often agree, Di. If it weren't for religious beliefs, we'd probably agree on most things!

As for proof that God doesn't exist? Easy: My definition of "God": Mythical creature that doesn't exist.

If you have another definition, I'll let you defend it... ;-)
Thinking about God's opinions and thinking about your own opinions uses an identical thought process. - Tomas Rees

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