EduChris wrote:Cathar1950 wrote:...everything is rationalized and explained away as it is interpreted willy-nilly according the the hermeneutic principle "there are no contradictions"...
Goat wrote:...when people appeal to hermeneutic principles, it is an excuse to have the meaning of the text mean what they want it to mean, rather than what it says...
I see that both of you have placed yourselves in the "Tolerant, Respectful, and Civil" group, and yet you are attacking the field of
hermeneutics, a field which neither of you seems to know anything about.
Is there a contradiction in this? Why not first make a genuine attempt to learn about something before you attack it? And if you're not willing to do that, then--out of tolerance, respect, and civility--why not just drop the matter so that we can keep this thread on topic?
I don't think you can say we have not made a genuine attempt as I have been studying hermeneutic principles for 30+ years.
There are many varying hermeneutic principles and techniques.
You are complaining about our lack and bragging about superior hermeneutics with out specifying what yours were and assuming in some straw man fashion we were being somehow ridiculously literal. Talk about begging the question.
Depending on how you define what God can and can’t do (your hermeneutic principles) it doesn’t matter if you are going to take it literally or in some other unspecified way such as you have presented.
If God can do anything then I see no reason why we should even think God somehow couldn’t produce a son out of a rock. Why would making a son human be a problem?
Clearly it is a contradiction unless you are going to make some assumptions.
Who is anyone to say God can’t change God’s mind or do anything unless we have made some assumptions. Some even think God can make a triangle a circle or do the illogical and impossible.
The more you think abut it the more limiting the claim seems. Why can’t God have a son?
Of course I don’t see a need to do that if I understand it from a more Jewish hermeneutics where humans became God’s sons through adoption and other ideas or metaphors.
King David and his sons became the son of God at their inauguration and others could be servants (Sometimes translated as child in Greek) or called and appointed which could be translated as christ in Greek.
I see the problem starting with the insistence that Jesus was Divine and fully human with the result being the Trinity doctrine.
So where do you stand and what is your hermeneutic standard?
http://www.answers.com/topic/hermeneutics
Study of the general principles of biblical interpretation. Its primary purpose is to discover the truths and values of the Bible, which is seen as a receptacle of divine revelation. Four major types of hermeneutics have emerged: literal (asserting that the text is to be interpreted according to the "plain meaning"), moral (seeking to establish the principles from which ethical lessons may be drawn), allegorical (interpreting narratives as having a level of reference beyond the explicit), and anagogical or mystical (seeking to explain biblical events as they relate to the life to come). More recently the word has come to refer to all "deep" reading of literary and philosophical texts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeneutics
Hermeneutics (English pronunciation: /hɜrməˈnju�tɨks/) is the study of interpretation theory, and can be either the art of interpretation, or the theory and practice of interpretation. Traditional hermeneutics — which includes Biblical hermeneutics — refers to the study of the interpretation of written texts, especially texts in the areas of literature, religion and law. Contemporary, or modern, hermeneutics encompasses not only issues involving the written text, but everything in the interpretative process. This includes verbal and nonverbal forms of communication as well as prior aspects that affect communication, such as presuppositions, preunderstandings, the meaning and philosophy of language, and semiotics.[1] Philosophical hermeneutics refers primarily to Hans-Georg Gadamer's theory of knowledge as developed in Truth and Method, and sometimes to Paul Ricoeur.[2] Hermeneutic consistency refers to analysis of texts for coherent explanation. A hermeneutic (singular) refers to one particular method or strand of interpretation. See also double hermeneutic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_hermeneutics
Biblical hermeneutics is the study of the principles of interpretation concerning the books of the Bible. It is part of the broader field of hermeneutics which involves not just the study of principles for the text, but includes all forms of communication: verbal, nonverbal and written.[1]
While Jewish and Christian Biblical hermeneutics have some overlap and dialogue, they have distinctly separate interpretative traditions, see also Christianity and Judaism.
Theological hermeneutics as traditional Christian Biblical exegesis
This particular form of theological hermeneutics, especially within the mainstream Protestant tradition, considers Christian Biblical hermeneutics in the tradition of explication of the text, or exegesis, to deal with various principles that can be applied to the study of Scripture. If it is axiomatic that the canon of Scripture must be an organic whole, rather than an accumulation of disparate individual texts written and edited in the course of history, then any interpretation that contradicts any other part of scripture is not considered to be sound. Thus Biblical hermeneutics differs from hermeneutics as generally understood. Within such traditional Protestant theology, there are a variety of interpretive formulae. Such formulae are generally not mutually exclusive, and interpreters may adhere to several of these approaches at once. Such formulae include:[2]
Theological Group of Principles:
• The Election Principle
• The Historical-grammatical principle based on historical, socio-political, geographical, cultural and linguistic / grammatical context
• The Dispensation Principle or The Chronometrical Principle: "During different periods of time, God has chosen to deal in a particular way with man in respect to sin and man's responsibility."
• The Covenantal Principle: "We differentiate between the various contracts that God has made with his people; specifically their provisions, their parties and their purposes."
• The Ethnic Division Principle: "The word of truth is rightly divided in relation to the three classes which it treats, i.e. Jews, Gentiles and the Church."
• The Breach Principle: Interpretation of a certain verse or passage in Scripture is aided by a consideration of certain breaches, either breaches of promise or breaches of time.
• The Christo-Centric Principle: "The mind of deity is eternally centered in Christ. All angelic thought and ministry are centered in Christ. All Satanic hatred and subtlety are centered at Christ. All human hopes are, and human occupations should be, centered in Christ. The whole material universe in creation is centered in Christ. The entire written word is centered in Christ."
• The Moral Principle
• The Discriminational Principle: "We should divide the word of truth so as to make a distinction where God makes a difference."
• The Predictive Principle
• The Application Principle: "An application of truth may be made only after the correct interpretation has been made"
• The Principle of Human Willingness in Illumination
• The Context Principle: "God gives light upon a subject through either near or remote passages bearing upon the same subject."
Sub-divided Context/Mention Principles:
• The First Mention Principle: "God indicates in the first mention of a subject the truth with which that subject stands connected in the mind of God."
• The Progressive Mention Principle: "God makes the revelation of any given truth increasingly clear as the word proceeds to its consummation."
• The Comparative Mention Principle
• The Full Mention Principle or The Complete Mention Principle: "God declares his full mind upon any subject vital to our spiritual life."
• The Agreement Principle: "The truthfulness and faithfulness of God become the guarantee that he will not set forth any passage in his word that contradicts any other passage."
• The Direct Statement Principle: "God says what he means and means what he says."
• The Gap Principle:"God, in the Jewish Scriptures, ignores certain periods of time, leaping over them without comment."
• The Threefold Principle:"The word of God sets forth the truths of salvation in a three-fold way: past - justification; present - sanctification/transformation; future - glorification/consummation."
• The Repetition Principle:"God repeats some truth or subject already given, generally with the addition of details not before given."
• The Synthetic Principle
• The Principle of Illustrative Mention
• The Double Reference Principle
Figures of Speech Group of Principles:
• The Numerical Principle
• The Symbolic Principle
• The Typical Principle: "Certain people, events, objects and rituals found in the Old Testament may serve as object lessons and pictures by which God teaches us of his grace and saving power."
• The Parabolic Principle
• The Allegorical Principle
[edit] Techniques of hermeneutics
In the interpretation of a text, hermeneutics considers what language says, supposes, doesn't say, and implies. The process consists of several steps for best attaining the Scriptural author's intended meaning(s). One such process is taught by Henry A Virkler, in Hermeneutics: Principles and Processes of Biblical Interpretation (1981):
1. Lexical-syntactical analysis: This step looks at the words used and the way the words are used. Different order of the sentence, the punctuation, the tense of the verse are all aspects that are looked at in the lexical syntactical method. Here, lexicons and grammar aids can help in extracting meaning from the text.
2. Historical/cultural analysis: The history and culture surrounding the authors is important to understand to aid in interpretation. For instance, understanding the Jewish sects of the Palestine and the government that ruled Palestine in New Testament times increases understanding of Scripture. And, understanding the connotations of positions such as the High Priest and that of the tax collector helps us know what others thought of the people holding these positions.
3. Contextual analysis: A verse out of context can often be taken to mean something completely different from the intention. This method focuses on the importance of looking at the context of a verse in its chapter, book and even biblical context.
4. Theological analysis: It is often said that a single verse usually doesn't make a theology. This is because Scripture often touches on issues in several books. For instance, gifts of the Spirit are spoken about in Romans, Ephesians and 1 Corinthians. To take a verse from Corinthians without taking into account other passages that deal with the same topic can cause a poor interpretation.
5. Special literary analysis: There are several special literary aspects to look at, but the overarching theme is that each genre of Scripture has a different set of rules that applies to it. Of the genres found in Scripture, there are: narratives, histories, prophecies, apocalyptic writings, poetry, psalms and letters. In these, there are differing levels of allegory, figurative language, metaphors, similes and literal language. For instance, the apocalyptic writings and poetry have more figurative and allegorical language than does the narrative or historical writing. These must be addressed, and the genre recognized to gain a full understanding of the intended meaning.
