Are you a Christian fundamentalist?

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Flail

Are you a Christian fundamentalist?

Post #1

Post by Flail »

According to common definition, 'Christian fundamentalism' is defined by and stands upon the following principles.
Question for debate:
Which of these Christian fundamentalist principles do you accept and which do you reject and why?

1.That the Bible is inerrant. (If you claim the Bible contains errors, upon what basis do you separate the true from the untrue?)

2.That the Bible is the only source of truth about God and salvation. (If you claim other sources, please identify and explain.)

3. The virgin birth of Jesus.

4.The resurrection of Jesus from the dead.

5. Substitutionary salvation for believers.

6. Jesus ultimate return to earth.

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Post #11

Post by Divine Insight »

This is an old thread that has just been kicked up. But it's one I have never responded to and I would like to do so now.

To begin with, yes, I am indeed a Christian Fundamentalist. I began life as a quite liberal Free Methodist and tried for quite some time to make sense of the Bible abstractly pushing my own views, moralities, and opinions on to the Bible via my own personal interpretations and "cherry picking' of the biblical content.

However, I soon realized that the Christian Fundamentalists are correct. They Bible necessarily must be the inerrant truth of God or it is utterly worthless. So I realized at that time and Christian Fundamentalism is that only way to go and I became a Christian Fundamentalist.

So I can answer the following questions from that vantage point:

1.That the Bible is inerrant. (If you claim the Bible contains errors, upon what basis do you separate the true from the untrue?)

Yes, I agree that if the Bible is the word of God it must necessarily in inerrant. The Bible makes these claims itself within. It claims that the scriptures cannot be broken. It warns that nary a single word shall be added or taken away from the scriptures. It even has Jesus proclaiming that not one jot nor one tittle shall pass from law until heaven and earth pass.

Therefore, if the Bible is the word of God it must necessarily be inerrant.

You ask if the Bible contains errors how do I separate the true from the untrue. But I don't need to. If the Bible contains so much as a single error then the whole thing topples like a house of cards.

As a Christian Fundamentalist I have recognized that the Bible contains many errors and blatant self-contradictions. Therefore as a Christian Fundamentalist I have no choice but acknowledged that the Bible cannot be the word of any God.

Trying to cherry pick truth from a pile of dung would be futile.


2.That the Bible is the only source of truth about God and salvation. (If you claim other sources, please identify and explain.)


I guess as a Christian Fundamentalist I have no choice but to reject all other doctrines as not being from the Christian God. Why? Because of what I had just noted above. The Bible says that nary a word shall be taken away or added to these scriptures. Therefore if we allow other scriptures to be viewed as "God's Word" then we are adding to the scriptures which is fundamentally forbidden.

Therefore if we find other writings that make more sense than the Bible (and there are many) we should look into those in the context in which they are written and not try to incorporate them into the already failed Biblical scriptures.


3. The virgin birth of Jesus.


Yes, if the Bible is the Word of God and is inerrant then Jesus necessarily must be the virgin born demigod son of Yahweh.

As a Christian Fundamentalist I have already recognized that the Bible is filled with errors, so I no longer take anything it has to say seriously.


4.The resurrection of Jesus from the dead.


Absolutely. And let's not forget about God speaking from a cloud verifying that Jesus is his virgin born demigod son too!

These would all need to be true if the Bible was inerrant.


5. Substitutionary salvation for believers.


I confess that I'm not certain precisely where this comes from. I think it mostly comes from Paul. But yeah, since Paul made this claim and Paul's writings are part of the Bible this too would need to be inerrant.

But clearly the Bible is not without many errors and self-contradictions. So it's a moot point.

As a Christian Fundamentalist I have no choice but to toss the entire Bible down the toilet.

I would need to convert to liberal non-literalism if I want to pretend that I can reject what the Bible actually says and push my own personal views and opinions onto the Bible pretending that I speak for God.

I see not point in becoming a pretensionist.


6. Jesus ultimate return to earth.


Yes, if the Bible were inerrant this too would need to be true.

But as a Christian Fundamentalists I no longer have any reason to believe anything that is written in the Bible because like a house of cards it has already been blown away by the winds of its own self-contradictions.

So as a Christan Fundamentalist I am 100% certain that Christianity is a false dogma.
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Post #12

Post by tam »

1.That the Bible is inerrant. (If you claim the Bible contains errors, upon what basis do you separate the true from the untrue?)
Reject. The bible can contain errors. It even says that about itself.

Jeremiah 8:8 "'How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?"

Christ also said 'woe to you scribes'.

We know that there can be translation issues when translating from one language to another. Just take the word 'hell' for instance. What it means in its original language is not what it has come to mean in many sects of the religion of Christianity.

Understanding that the bible is not inerrant does not mean the things in the bible did not happen... but they might not have happened exactly as written due to translation or scribal errors, based on their lack of undersatnding.

My basis for separating the true from the untrue is Christ. He is the Truth, and the One I follow. If something is in conflict with truth, then it cannot be truth.

2.That the Bible is the only source of truth about God and salvation. (If you claim other sources, please identify and explain.)
The only source? Or even the main source?

Reject.

See above. Christ is the Truth about God. The Bible is a witness (or a compilation of witnesses) to Christ.

"You diligently search the scriptures because you think that by them you have eternal life. These are the scriptures that testify about me. Yet you refuse to come to me for Life." John 5:39, 40


3. The virgin birth of Jesus.
Accept.

Because God is His Father, and holy spirit of God is what came upon Mary so as to give her a child. Yes, that is what is written, but it does not contradict Christ or love, or the spirit (anointing) in me.


4.The resurrection of Jesus from the dead.
Accept. I have to accept this because He lives and speaks even now, as the Spirit. If He was dead, He could say nothing.

So that would be personal evidence (though not limited to just me) in having heard His voice, as well as the written testimony (even if second-hand) of those who also heard Him. Their testimony is confirmed for me because I also hear Him.

Both the Spirit (Christ) and the Bride say to you or to anyone who thirsts or wishes or seeks, "Come... take the free gift of the water of Life."


5. Substitutionary salvation for believers.
I am not sure what this means precisely, sorry.
6. Jesus ultimate return to earth.


Yes, because He has said that He will return. He does not lie. He certainly has never lied to me. His words are also corroborated by what He is written to have said.




Hope that helps.

Peace to you,
your servant, and a slave of Christ,
tammy

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Re: Are you a Christian fundamentalist?

Post #13

Post by puddleglum »

Flail wrote:
1.That the Bible is inerrant. (If you claim the Bible contains errors, upon what basis do you separate the true from the untrue?)
The copies of the Bible we read have been passed down by fallible copyists and translators so there could be minor errors but the Bible was inspired and is protected by God's power so there are no errors that affect its function as being a revelation from God. There are some Bibles such as the New World Translation published by the Jehovah's Witnesses that have been mistranslated to promote false doctrines but with care it is possible to detect and avoid being deceived by them.
2.That the Bible is the only source of truth about God and salvation. (If you claim other sources, please identify and explain.)
The Bible is the only perfect and complete revelation of God. The creation reveals the existence and power of God and we all have an innate sense of right and wrong but these revelations are imperfect because of the effect of sin. All religions and philosophies contain some truth about God and God sometimes uses these truths to bring people to more perfect knowledge but they don't add anything to what has been revealed in the Bible. The Bible is the standard we apply to other beliefs to find out how much truth they contain.
3. The virgin birth of Jesus.

4.The resurrection of Jesus from the dead.

5. Substitutionary salvation for believers.

6. Jesus ultimate return to earth.
I agree fully with these points.
His invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made.
Romans 1:20 ESV

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