Do you believe in free will

Getting to know more about a specific belief

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sleepyhead
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Do you believe in free will

Post #1

Post by sleepyhead »

Hello,

Occasionally when debating non thesist, they claim that there is no free will. I was wondering if this was a prevalent viewpoint among non theists or if it was only a few. Does a non belief in free will help in supporting an argument for you.
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JayDeist
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Post #11

Post by JayDeist »

I believe in chance, choice, and math.

I don't think the definition of free will is something I can accept, because of it's theistic underlying meaning. I believe we have the freedom to choose our own path, but not the whole free will story from the bible.

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Re: Do you believe in free will

Post #12

Post by riverslivnwtr »

sleepyhead wrote:Hello,

Occasionally when debating non thesist, they claim that there is no free will. I was wondering if this was a prevalent viewpoint among non theists or if it was only a few. Does a non belief in free will help in supporting an argument for you.

Non theists make that claim probably because of their experiences in the time of the Holy Roman Empire.. :P

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Re: Do you believe in free will

Post #13

Post by JayDeist »

riverslivnwtr wrote:
sleepyhead wrote:Hello,

Occasionally when debating non thesist, they claim that there is no free will. I was wondering if this was a prevalent viewpoint among non theists or if it was only a few. Does a non belief in free will help in supporting an argument for you.

Non theists make that claim probably because of their experiences in the time of the Holy Roman Empire.. :P
Non-theists make that claim because the concept is contradictory.

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Re: Do you believe in free will

Post #14

Post by riverslivnwtr »

JayDeist wrote:
riverslivnwtr wrote:
sleepyhead wrote:Hello,

Occasionally when debating non thesist, they claim that there is no free will. I was wondering if this was a prevalent viewpoint among non theists or if it was only a few. Does a non belief in free will help in supporting an argument for you.

Non theists make that claim probably because of their experiences in the time of the Holy Roman Empire.. :P
Non-theists make that claim because the concept is contradictory.
During the Holy roman Empire there were no non theists because they were all dead upon discovery....
:bigeyes:

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JayDeist
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Re: Do you believe in free will

Post #15

Post by JayDeist »

riverslivnwtr wrote:
JayDeist wrote:
riverslivnwtr wrote:
sleepyhead wrote:Hello,

Occasionally when debating non thesist, they claim that there is no free will. I was wondering if this was a prevalent viewpoint among non theists or if it was only a few. Does a non belief in free will help in supporting an argument for you.

Non theists make that claim probably because of their experiences in the time of the Holy Roman Empire.. :P
Non-theists make that claim because the concept is contradictory.
During the Holy roman Empire there were no non theists because they were all dead upon discovery....
:bigeyes:
I don't remember anything in the OP about the holy roman empire, and I really don't care. All I know is that the theistic argument of their so called free will is contradictory. You must agree, or you would have pointed that out, instead of trying to avoid the issue by throwing out the holy roman empire for whatever reason.

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Post #16

Post by ttruscott »

As you folks can see, I'm resurrecting this old thread which I missed so long ago, :) I hope some of you are still around an see this new effort.
LiamOS wrote: Based on my study of physics so far, I conclude that free will does not exist in this universe when it is defined to necessitate something that would not otherwise be.

My lack of belief in free will doesn't support any arguments, but it allows me to dismiss many arguments. Essentially, it furthers my agnosticism in general.

I agree except I don't think your research necessarily leads to agnosticism.

All FREE means is uncoerced:

IF GOD set it up so HIS new creation had no coercion or constraints upon their choices, forcing them to choose anything, they had free will.

The Elements of a True Free Will Choice:


1. Free will can't be coerced:
Nothing in their created nature could FORCE them to choose love or hate, good or evil, including all genetics...

Nothing in their experience could FORCE them to choose love or hate, good or evil, including all, cultural or familial experience...

Nothing in their understanding or knowledge of reality could FORCE them to choose good or evil, love or hate.

In other words, they had to be completely and truly ingenuously innocent.

[Ref: definition of ingenuous: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ingenuousness as: 1. Lacking in cunning, guile, worldliness; artless. 2. Openly straight forward or frank; candid.

2. Consequences must be known but not proved:
The person must understand the full consequences of their choice or it is a guess, not a true choice. “What will happen if I choose left or right, the red pill or the blue pill?� must be answered in full detail.

But "PROOF" of the nature of the consequence would compel or coerce the person to choose what was proven to be the best for them. If the answer “death here,� “life there,� was proven, which would you choose? The weight of knowledge would destroy the effect of a true ‘free’ choice.

If it were proven you would die if you went left, are you truly free to choose to go right? No, you are forced by your knowledge to go right. Therefore they must know, but without proof, the nature of the consequences of their choice.

Only then are they following their desires, their deepest hope in the nature of reality, defining the reality they most hope to enjoy.

Since common experience supported by your research has proven this is not available on earth, I contend that it happend in the spirit world, pre-earth, :) thus reconciling your proof we have no free will on earth with the necessity that we have free will to keep GOD at arm's length from the creation of evil and to make everyone responsible for their own decisions.

Peace, Ted
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

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Post #17

Post by wiploc »

I'm an atheist. I believe in free will.

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Re: Do you believe in free will

Post #18

Post by wiploc »

sleepyhead wrote: Do you believe in free will
Yes, I'm a free willy.

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Re: Do you believe in free will

Post #19

Post by Left Site »

sleepyhead wrote: Hello,

Occasionally when debating non thesist, they claim that there is no free will. I was wondering if this was a prevalent viewpoint among non theists or if it was only a few. Does a non belief in free will help in supporting an argument for you.
I believe we have the capacity given us to freely make choices but that capacity is only free to us when we make our choices in line with God's love an love of our neighbor. Freedom of will was granted us so that we could love as God loves. When we enter into sin we enter into slavery and nothing is any longer free.

As a slave of sin a man makes his choices under the influence of sin. The choices we make while a slave to sin are like signing a contract while intoxicated or while under duress. We would not claim that a man who signed a contract while stone drunk, or, while being threatened and coerced by another, freely signed that contract. Neither does it make sense to claim that one beaten down as a puppet of sin could possibly have free-will. But the thing of it is that there may have been a time in anyone's life where they were not so burdened and were able to make a free-will choice which then landed them into such bondage. But even that is debatable, for their finding themselves now deeply fallen into bondage by sin is making them pay for any choice which may have landed them there.

As soon as we step outside of the love of God with the choices we make we must pay the price of sin. And the moment we make a choice that is contrary to the love of God we have already stepped into sin. If indeed the choice we make has itself become a sin then it cannot possibly be free-will any longer, for we must pay the cost for making such a choice outside of the love of God and neighbor.

Some speak of free-will as if only the ability to make a choice. But that is nonsensical. Choices can be coerced. When we make our choices in line with Jehovah's will there is no coercion. There is only incentive when we stick to making our decisions within God's will for he adds nothing bad to it and what is more he fosters us in precious hopes that we know we can depend upon coming to be. But the very ill-choice which acts to separate us from that is the beginning of slavery and all that is opposite to the freedom enjoyed by the sons of God.

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Post #20

Post by brianbbs67 »

There is absolutely free will, what people don't want to hear today, and never have is choices have consequences. Forget who you believe sends them. Just know, they do. "I am the original poster of this reply. I agree with its message. I was not coerced in any way to make this reply. Your results may vary"

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