Jesus and God, questions for Christians...

[salvation2011]

I was having a debate with my husband yesterday about Jesus and God. He said that Jesus is God and HE came and changed the original laws set forth by God with Moses. Im confused for a couple reasons about this. I thought that Christians do believe in the 10 commandments and in Jesus as the trinity who summed up the 10 commandments in 2 easy to remember formats... Love God (first set of commands) and Love Others (the remaining commands)... I did not realize that Jesus came and changed/abolished the original commandments. Is my husband's belief in need of correction, or is it correct that Christians believe this? Second thing, and this may be bc I think its idolatrous to worship Jesus (as I believe trinity is a manmade not Jesus made concept... I dont see where he instructed people to worship him, only listen to his words and acknowledge him... big difference in my book)... so can someone please point me to the passage or passages from the words of Jesus that show Jesus instructing followers to worship anyone other than God the Father?

Thanks! Much appreciated!

[Adstar]

If you back up a little, Rev 1:5 "and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth". The Beast of the Sea was given authority of the kings of the earth. The Beast of the Earth (with 2 horns) got people to follow/worship the Beast of the Sea (Peter and Paul). I know, you will think Im going to hell bc in your eyes I just blasphemed. Thank God, in my eyes, I havent.

Rev 2:7 continues "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches." This is the Spirit of Truth ref to in John 16... pentecost was not. But again, that is simply my take on it, and it is different from yours and that is the structure of human nature, we each see what we each see.

But here is the thing. I may call you deceived or mislead but in the end i could even move over towards you way of thinking. And if God is with you in your thinking then i would still be ok with God in eternity.

But if my view is correct. I believe you are doomed. Because you have not only blasphemed but you have blasphemed the Holy Spirit. Why?

You who disbelieve in Christianity used Christian scripture "The book of Revelation" to accuse Paul and Peter of being the 2 horns. Now as a Christian i believe the 2 horns are 2 kings/kingdoms who are agents of satan ruling an empire during the end times.

Now i believe Paul and Peter where both indwelled by the Holy Spirit. They where agents of the Holy Spirit they did their acts and spoke their message via the leading of the Holy Spirit. You have proclaimed that they did what they did and spoke their message as agents of satan.

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is making the accusation that the Holy Spirit is satan. That’s what the scribes did when they accused Jesus of doing His works by the power of Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons.

Mark 3
22 And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem said, “He has Beelzebub,� and, “By the ruler of the demons He casts out demons.�

Jesus made it clear to the disciples that these men would Never have forgiveness in eternity because that is the one sin that shall never have forgiveness:

Mark 3
28 “Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; 29 but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation�— 30 because they said, “He has an unclean spirit.�

So you having stated quite clearly that Paul and Peter where agents of satan ( and that is what you are saying when you call them 2 hornes) have called the Holy Spirit satan. And therefore you shall never have forgiveness. If you are wrong and i am correct.

So if you are right i still have hope i could come to agree with you one day. But if i am right you have absolutely no hope.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[Burninglight]

Many Christians believe different things... but on the issue you raise as far as I understand it from the debates I have had with Christians on such things as Leviticus, Jesus fulfilled the laws of Moses by being crucified.

The laws put forth by Moses were not able to be fulfilled by man as he is imperfect and will always end up failing them. As Jesus was the perfect man and was here to absolve us of our sins his death and resurection closed the chapter on those laws and set in place the two new basic foundations of Christianity; love your god and love your neighbour.

I hope I've got that right and if I havn't someone with more knowledge please correct me.

Wow why can't we get Muslims to see it that that is the way we see it?
BTW, the solid snake, pun intended, Moses held up in the wilderness was for the children of Israel to behold to be cured from the serpent bites they received for complaining. That serpent represented Christ who became their curse and sin for us all; when we accept Him as our Lord, we receive His perfect righteousness. That is the only way to be right with God and receive the gift of eternal life.

[bluethread]

. . . go reread Revelations as it is the "Spirit of Truth" mentioned in John 16:13... (which Christianity believes was pentecost).

Isn't this what HaTorah calls Shavuot?

The Spirit of Truth does reveal the entire "plan" of/for man... if you believe it as truth.

Even if you are correct, which at least one here has contested, how would one understand much of anything in the Revelation without the Tanakh(OT)? All of the imagery in the Revelation comes from the Tanakh.

Salvation 2011, those two commandments you attribute to Yeshua(Jesus) are actually from HaTorah. However, I encourage you to remain subject to your husband as you study these matters. I would hate to see this become a danger to your marrage.