Why do you believe we only live once?

[sleepyhead]

Hello,

Jester wrote the following in holy huddle forum:

"For me, and I think for many, the frustration has been dealing with the tendency for some non-theists to challenge without making a case for an alternative worldview. It leaves the theist constantly on the defensive and, in my view, is not a balanced approach to seeking the truth.
I've tried debating this, but have become convinced that it is fruitless. Rather, I believe that we should politely refuse to debate anyone who challenges without offering a counterclaim. I feel that this would both relieve a great deal of this frustration and increase the quality of the debates that do take place."

How can people who believe in life after death also believe that we only come to earth once. Reincarantion is so much more logical imo. Anyway on what basis do you make the claim that we only live once?

[Autodidact]

Hello,

Jester wrote the following in holy huddle forum:

"For me, and I think for many, the frustration has been dealing with the tendency for some non-theists to challenge without making a case for an alternative worldview. It leaves the theist constantly on the defensive and, in my view, is not a balanced approach to seeking the truth.
I've tried debating this, but have become convinced that it is fruitless. Rather, I believe that we should politely refuse to debate anyone who challenges without offering a counterclaim. I feel that this would both relieve a great deal of this frustration and increase the quality of the debates that do take place."

How can people who believe in life after death also believe that we only come to earth once. Reincarantion is so much more logical imo. Anyway on what basis do you make the claim that we only live once?

Because the evidence does not seem to support any alternative hypothesis. It appears that consciousness is an emergent property of the brain, so it is logical to conclude that when the brain no longer functions, consciousness is no longer present.

[Furrowed Brow]

Anyway on what basis do you make the claim that we only live once?

Because there is zero meaningful evidence otherwise; and because the idea of surviving the death of the body fits certain kinds of narratives and storytelling; and because it looks like wishful thinking; and because it is difficult to conceive of ourselves not continuing we tend to do just that; and because it requires the invention of a some kind of metaphysics, which is only needed to fulfil the wish of continuation of the ego and nothing more and for which there is no evidence, and for which we just have to make stuff up to get the idea to work at least as far as making a narrative that meets our wishes, when it is simpler to just admit the idea and the narrative is a very human projection and wishful thinking; and because I like to keeps my facts separate from other folks fantasies.

[sleepyhead]

Hello FB and AD,

Thank you for your responses but I was hoping for a response from people who believe in life after death. I don't see there logic in limiting it to only one lifetime.

[Darias]

All that we can know now is that we have this life. Anything beyond this is speculation or belief.

Considering that the self in the mind is composed of physical functions, hormones and chemicals -- and keeping in mind that the brain ceases to function after death -- it seems strange to me that there would be a continuation of our thoughts, feelings, and person-hood after the organ responsible for all of that perishes.

It would be conjecture to claim that somehow all that makes us who we are is spiritually downloaded into a non-material ghost which floats away from our bodies upon death -- only to re-enter another body, or go to some wonderful place in the sky.

I come from a fundamentalist background, and I can remember a time when I told my mom and my grandma that I wanted Jesus to hurry up and come back so I wouldn't have to worry about going to college or getting a job or a wife.

I had a friend on facebook lately say the same thing recently.

Sometimes "heavenly mindedness" keeps us from living our lives and making a difference. I know in the case of my family, we haven't recycled in the past because we were so certain Jesus would rapture us all away.

Of course, so much for being good stewards of the earth...

That's the thing. I think belief in an afterlife is basically killing what Christianity is supposed to be all about -- loving others and making the world a better place. Too many Christians, at least in my experience, just expect God to come back and fix it all... Too many Christians are worried about people's souls instead of their stomachs. And I think we need to get the right perspective. Of course I'm no pie-in-the-sky optimist who thinks we can make the world a utopia, but I think we could all focus on making the world a better place instead of depending upon a non-intervening deity -- and instead of wishing for a better life after the next -- especially since we don't know if there will even be one.

[sleepyhead]

All that we can know now is that we have this life. Anything beyond this is speculation or belief.

Considering that the self in the mind is composed of physical functions, hormones and chemicals -- and keeping in mind that the brain ceases to function after death -- it seems strange to me that there would be a continuation of our thoughts, feelings, and person-hood after the organ responsible for all of that perishes.

It would be conjecture to claim that somehow all that makes us who we are is spiritually downloaded into a non-material ghost which floats away from our bodies upon death -- only to re-enter another body, or go to some wonderful place in the sky.

That sounds like an argument for either no life after death or a life after death without a knowledge of who we are in the sense that we lose all awareness.

I come from a fundamentalist background, and I can remember a time when I told my mom and my grandma that I wanted Jesus to hurry up and come back so I wouldn't have to worry about going to college or getting a job or a wife.

I had a friend on facebook lately say the same thing recently.

Sometimes "heavenly mindedness" keeps us from living our lives and making a difference. I know in the case of my family, we haven't recycled in the past because we were so certain Jesus would rapture us all away.

Of course, so much for being good stewards of the earth...

That's the thing. I think belief in an afterlife is basically killing what Christianity is supposed to be all about -- loving others and making the world a better place. Too many Christians, at least in my experience, just expect God to come back and fix it all... Too many Christians are worried about people's souls instead of their stomachs. And I think we need to get the right perspective. Of course I'm no pie-in-the-sky optimist who thinks we can make the world a utopia, but I think we could all focus on making the world a better place instead of depending upon a non-intervening deity -- and instead of wishing for a better life after the next -- especially since we don't know if there will even be one.

Christianity (at least most of it) believes life is a test that you pass or fail. Naturally their faith system provides them with a list of things to do which will enable them to pass. (believe in Jesus, baptism, attend services) Reincarnation (at least the version I believe in) understand our time on earth to be another learning opportunity. It supports the importance of understanding and evaluating yourself with regards to what you feel you were sent here to learn.

[Cain]

Religions are based on 'Faith' not scientific research or in most cases 'Belief'.
The fact remains that both science and faith/belief holds no empirical evidence one way or the other.

The idea of Life After Death becomes a philosophical debate based on associative experiences.

That said, I personally believe that there is something separate from our physical being, and that this is a form of energy of which as all energy is never destroyed but is plastic / transmutable. Whether it is guided by a Higher Self idea is one other aspect that is unknown to us, but I believe it is.

All of this of course begins the debate of whether there is a point to existence or is it merely an organic function and follows the path of Existentialism.

Again personally, I believe there is a purpose to existence, though I would not assign the concept to a religious manifestation necessarily, especially to the Abrahamic ideology.

My question to you all; "is there a Oneness/God/Holy Spirit which regulates our Being or are We all Individual and have a Higher Self/god that regulates our Being? Both of which We would be striving to atone with?"

[Darias]

It's not that I'm opposed to the idea of life after death; I certainly hope there is and that it is pleasant.

My issue is how? I mean it's one thing to believe and have faith -- it's another to believe and have faith in something implausible and unexplainable.

The "soul" as a concept has traditionally been understood as the self -- the "ghost in the machine." But we now know that the self/soul of a person, aka the mind, owes its existence to the brain.

There is no evidence of an immaterial, free-floating spirit that swims around in our skull telling us what to do. And the process by which a soul could interact with the brain hasn't really been explained to my satisfaction. Even if the soul was passive -- and acted like a canvas, absorbing information from the brain -- how would it do that, assuming it exists?

As of now, I think that once your brain dies, the very core of who you are, you die along with it. This makes the afterlife, even if such places do exist, kinda irrelevant.

[sleepyhead]

Hello darius,

Sorry cain but I can't think of a response for anything you wrote.

>>>There is no evidence of an immaterial, free-floating spirit that swims around in our skull telling us what to do. <<<

Actually there sort of is and they call it instinct.

>>>And the process by which a soul could interact with the brain hasn't really been explained to my satisfaction. <<<

Monks in the eastern religion are very much into meditation. About a year ago there was a story on NPR where people who prayed several hours a day were examined and there were differences in there brains from regular people.

>>>As of now, I think that once your brain dies, the very core of who you are, you die along with it. This makes the afterlife, even if such places do exist, kinda irrelevant.<<<

I think the belief in an afterlife assumes that something unique to the individual continues after death. Naturally the physical brain will die. Some people believe the body will be resurrected. Anyway I was hoping for a debate between reincarnation and one of the more Christian/ Moslem versions of the afterlife rather than a debate on the possibilities of an afterlife.

[Cain]

It's not that I'm opposed to the idea of life after death; I certainly hope there is and that it is pleasant.

My issue is how? I mean it's one thing to believe and have faith -- it's another to believe and have faith in something implausible and unexplainable.

The "soul" as a concept has traditionally been understood as the self -- the "ghost in the machine." But we now know that the self/soul of a person, aka the mind, owes its existence to the brain.

There is no evidence of an immaterial, free-floating spirit that swims around in our skull telling us what to do. And the process by which a soul could interact with the brain hasn't really been explained to my satisfaction. Even if the soul was passive -- and acted like a canvas, absorbing information from the brain -- how would it do that, assuming it exists?

As of now, I think that once your brain dies, the very core of who you are, you die along with it. This makes the afterlife, even if such places do exist, kinda irrelevant.

Darius, I'm afraid this now comes under the header of Belief (not Faith), in that I for one agree with the many many philosophical minds over history, that there is further incarnations, that One's Self is a Spiritual evolution and something towards atoning with our original Higher Self (that which is misunderstood as god).