Mormon beliefs that bug me

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Robert H
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Mormon beliefs that bug me

Post #1

Post by Robert H »

We all laugh at Mormons because they have some crazy beliefs. The more I read the Bible, the more I get upset at the Mormons because they think they can just waltz in 1800 years after Jesus started His church and claim divine authority. They sure do a great job at emulating His church though... and everything in the Bible. It makes me wonder what are we as Christians really doing?

Things that we laugh at about the Mormons -

- The idea of prophets and apostles who run and govern the church of Christ with divine authority.
- Now this is just crazy talk. We know it happened in the Bible, in fact, we know it ALWAYS happened in the Bible. Why would God ever need to do that today though? That is just silly. No, I for one am for the rationale that God had some of his prophets write a little of their stories, then hand it down through many corrupt generations to come to us as confusing as it is, where millions would argue over it and form hundreds of different Christian sects.

- The concept of the Godhead, where three individuals acting in unison run the program for the eternal life of the Father's children.
- NONSENCE! Though the word godhead is repeatedly taught in the Bible, I won't fall for that now. I prefer the 3rd century doctrine of the trinity made up by power-hungry rulers of the emperor. Their concept of one essence conglomerate that comes and goes in a human body suit when it wants to appear as Jesus really sits deep in my heart.

- Polygamy
- Now this one I really laugh and laugh about. Who in their right mind would want to have more than one wife?! Hahahahaha! Then again, maybe there are lots and lots of chores to be done when running a farming community? I wouldn't know though, our country has made it illegal because they consider it gross and wrong. Sort of the same way the country felt about gay sex and interracial marriage. But I know Mormons didn't invent the idea, maybe Father Abraham or Jacob paved the way. Ah, in fact, the whole house of Israel, the sacred and blessed people of the Lord all practiced polygamy. The very blood line of the Savior Himself comes from a polygamist family. Without Jacob marrying his 4 wives and having his 12 sons, the line of Judah would have never existed and the Messiah would have never been born. But no, I must stick with modern western culture's concept of marriage and conclude that polygamy is evil and anyone from Old Testament times that did such a thing was evil. I personally think we should take steps to erase that terrible polygamist culture of the Hebrews from the Bible.

- Baptism for the Dead and Three levels of existence in the resurrection
- Now, this is nuts. Anyone who reads all of 1 Corinthians chapter 15 could have just copied these doctrines right out of it. The Mormons certainly did just that. Celestial and Terrestrial existences when we become resurrected.... Paul was just out of his mind when he wrote that chapter. Again, this chapter needs to be removed from the New Testament because it directly contradicts the modern Christian ideas of a heaven and hell and that you cant earn either.

Anyway, that is just a couple things I despise about the Mormons. They are just Bible copiers and they refuse to go along with modern Christianity that seems to have derailed form the Biblical teachings and formed their own Western doctrines. They just need to play nice.

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dianaiad
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Post #21

Post by dianaiad »

SkyChief wrote: Mormons do have some "unusual" beliefs.

To me, the most questionable are the beliefs that;

• Jesus visited America after His resurrection, and that he will visit Independence, Missouri when he returns for the Second Coming.

• All Mormons will become Gods.

That's kinda weird.
Well, (and welcome to the forum), yeah. Mormon beliefs are kinda weird.

Right up there with believing that Jesus, immediately after His death, preached to the folks who drowned when Noah floated away, that someone could turn wine into water during a wedding, that Jesus could raise the dead (Lazarus was already 'stinking' according to the text), that people get reincarnated, that extra terrestrial aliens exist, that there could be many different universes, that 'dark energy' needs to exist in order to make Einstein's theories work even though we have no evidence of the existence of dark energy, that the death of the dinosaurs was due, only, to a big rock that fell from the sky, or that, conversely, they died because of volcanic activity in and around where India now is, or global warming, pro or con.

"Weird" is entirely in the eye of the beholder.

BTW, Mormons do not believe that 'all Mormons will become gods."

The bit about Jesus visiting the New World, though? I'll give you that one. We do believe that.

Again, welcome to the forum. Have a nice year. ;)

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Post #22

Post by SkyChief »

dianaiad"]

"Weird" is entirely in the eye of the beholder.

BTW, Mormons do not believe that 'all Mormons will become gods."

[/quote]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At least some Mormons understand that Mormons will [can] become God(s).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"So, yes, as I understand it, it is a traditional Mormon teaching that human beings can become gods, but in the same spirit that children can grow up and become parents without displacing the priority and sovereignty of their own parents.

This doctrine is viewed as heresy by the rest of the Christian world. It’s also one of the boldest claims Mormon doctrine makes, so it has been the subject of a great deal of sensationalism."




https://askmormongirl.wordpress.com/201 ... come-gods/

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dianaiad
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Post #23

Post by dianaiad »

SkyChief wrote:

"Weird" is entirely in the eye of the beholder.

BTW, Mormons do not believe that 'all Mormons will become gods."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At least some Mormons understand that Mormons will [can] become God(s).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"So, yes, as I understand it, it is a traditional Mormon teaching that human beings can become gods, but in the same spirit that children can grow up and become parents without displacing the priority and sovereignty of their own parents.

This doctrine is viewed as heresy by the rest of the Christian world. It’s also one of the boldest claims Mormon doctrine makes, so it has been the subject of a great deal of sensationalism."




https://askmormongirl.wordpress.com/201 ... come-gods/
Yes, but you wrote that...and I quote..."all Mormons will become gods"

It is important to be more careful in your wording. "All" is untrue, and what do you mean by "gods?"

We do indeed believe in the doctrine of deification...something that is shared, by the way, by the "Christian world." We do believe that some of us, if we have faith (and faith means more than 'belief') will be 'heirs and joint-heirs' with Christ, and have everything He does.

Perhaps if you could tell me what goes through your head when the claim 'we can become gods" is made? You know, define the terms?

I'm not trying to be slippery here. I'm attempting to get on the same level of communication. You realize that your statement, under 'Mormon beliefs that bug me" of "all Mormons will become gods" is rather confrontational.

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Post #24

Post by SkyChief »

dianaiad wrote:
SkyChief wrote:

"Weird" is entirely in the eye of the beholder.

BTW, Mormons do not believe that 'all Mormons will become gods."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At least some Mormons understand that Mormons will [can] become God(s).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"So, yes, as I understand it, it is a traditional Mormon teaching that human beings can become gods, but in the same spirit that children can grow up and become parents without displacing the priority and sovereignty of their own parents.

This doctrine is viewed as heresy by the rest of the Christian world. It’s also one of the boldest claims Mormon doctrine makes, so it has been the subject of a great deal of sensationalism."




https://askmormongirl.wordpress.com/201 ... come-gods/
Yes, but you wrote that...and I quote..."all Mormons will become gods"

It is important to be more careful in your wording. "All" is untrue, and what do you mean by "gods?"

We do indeed believe in the doctrine of deification...something that is shared, by the way, by the "Christian world." We do believe that some of us, if we have faith (and faith means more than 'belief') will be 'heirs and joint-heirs' with Christ, and have everything He does.

Perhaps if you could tell me what goes through your head when the claim 'we can become gods" is made? You know, define the terms?

I'm not trying to be slippery here. I'm attempting to get on the same level of communication. You realize that your statement, under 'Mormon beliefs that bug me" of "all Mormons will become gods" is rather confrontational.
Granted, I have been sloppy with specifics.

"all Mormons will become gods" Is a dumb statement. If I could redact that, I would. :)

A better assertion would be:

Some Mormons believe that a God-like status is achievable by those who follow the doctrines.

Which is not meant as confrontational. Just a

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Post #25

Post by puddleglum »

[Replying to post 23 by dianaiad]
We do indeed believe in the doctrine of deification...something that is shared, by the way, by the "Christian world." We do believe that some of us, if we have faith (and faith means more than 'belief') will be 'heirs and joint-heirs' with Christ, and have everything He does.
Christians do not believe in deification in the same way Mormons do. By faith in Christ we become partakers of his divine nature but we will never have powers of deity that we can exercise independently of him. One characteristic of Deity is eternity, having no beginning and no end. We receive eternal life that never ends but, unlike God, we all have a beginning.
His invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made.
Romans 1:20 ESV

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Post #26

Post by dianaiad »

puddleglum wrote: [Replying to post 23 by dianaiad]
We do indeed believe in the doctrine of deification...something that is shared, by the way, by the "Christian world." We do believe that some of us, if we have faith (and faith means more than 'belief') will be 'heirs and joint-heirs' with Christ, and have everything He does.
Christians do not believe in deification in the same way Mormons do. By faith in Christ we become partakers of his divine nature but we will never have powers of deity that we can exercise independently of him. One characteristic of Deity is eternity, having no beginning and no end. We receive eternal life that never ends but, unlike God, we all have a beginning.
Puddlegum, Mormons are Christian. We are not Orthodox, orthodox, Protestant or 'evangelical.' We are counted in the Restorationist branch of Christianity.

You might not like us. You might disagree with our beliefs; that's fine. Evidently I don't agree with many of yours.

However, the fact that you disagree with me does not make you 'not a Christian.' The fact that I might disagree with you does not make ME 'not a Christian."

If it helps, "Christian" does not mean 'saved." It means that the teachings of Jesus Christ are at the center of one's religious belief system, even if one understands those teachings differently than other Christians.

I am, indeed, adamant about this, because I'm old, and have been at this awhile. I have noticed throughout my life and throughout history that the FIRST thing people do when they want to persecute (do nasty things to or say nasty things about) another group is to throw them "out of the club."

The FIRST thing Catholics did to Protestants, to make it acceptable to hurt and kill them, was to decide that they weren't 'really Christian." The Protestants then did it right back to the Catholics (some still do).

Christian belief systems do it to each other all the time, still....and there is only one reason for doing so; to justify negative actions that one could not POSSIBLY take against a fellow Christian. The solution to that problem, of course, is to declare that the target isn't, after all, a Christian, so it's OK.

In fact, I have never, EVER, seen a Christian declare that someone else (someone who claims to be a Christian, that is) is not a Christian and NOT follow it with some negative, critical, insulting, or physically/emotionally damaging statement or action, however mildly put.

Oh, I don't imagine that this is exclusive to Christianity. I have seen it played out in all manner of groups, religious and not. It's a human thing.

He who one would persecute must first be made 'other."

It's also a logical fallacy most commonly known as a 'no true Scot" fallacy.

...........though I have often thought that it should be renamed to 'no true Christian'.

OK, that's my rant for the day. Pretty standard rant, come to think of it. I should put it in a text file for cut and paste purposes.

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Post #27

Post by dianaiad »

puddleglum wrote: [Replying to post 23 by dianaiad]
We do indeed believe in the doctrine of deification...something that is shared, by the way, by the "Christian world." We do believe that some of us, if we have faith (and faith means more than 'belief') will be 'heirs and joint-heirs' with Christ, and have everything He does.
Christians do not believe in deification in the same way Mormons do. By faith in Christ we become partakers of his divine nature but we will never have powers of deity that we can exercise independently of him. One characteristic of Deity is eternity, having no beginning and no end. We receive eternal life that never ends but, unlike God, we all have a beginning.
Puddlegum, Mormons are Christian. We are not Orthodox, orthodox, Protestant or 'evangelical.' We are counted in the Restorationist branch of Christianity.

You might not like us. You might disagree with our beliefs; that's fine. Evidently I don't agree with many of yours.

However, the fact that you disagree with me does not make you 'not a Christian.' The fact that I might disagree with you does not make ME 'not a Christian."

If it helps, "Christian" does not mean 'saved." It means that the teachings of Jesus Christ are at the center of one's religious belief system, even if one understands those teachings differently than other Christians.

I am, indeed, adamant about this, because I'm old, and have been at this awhile. I have noticed throughout my life and throughout history that the FIRST thing people do when they want to persecute (do nasty things to or say nasty things about) another group is to throw them "out of the club."

The FIRST thing Catholics did to Protestants, to make it acceptable to hurt and kill them, was to decide that they weren't 'really Christian." The Protestants then did it right back to the Catholics (some still do).

Christian belief systems do it to each other all the time, still....and there is only one reason for doing so; to justify negative actions that one could not POSSIBLY take against a fellow Christian. The solution to that problem, of course, is to declare that the target isn't, after all, a Christian, so it's OK.

In fact, I have never, EVER, seen a Christian declare that someone else (someone who claims to be a Christian, that is) is not a Christian and NOT follow it with some negative, critical, insulting, or physically/emotionally damaging statement or action, however mildly put.

Oh, I don't imagine that this is exclusive to Christianity. I have seen it played out in all manner of groups, religious and not. It's a human thing.

He who one would persecute must first be made 'other."

It's also a logical fallacy most commonly known as a 'no true Scot" fallacy.

...........though I have often thought that it should be renamed to 'no true Christian'.

OK, that's my rant for the day. Pretty standard rant, come to think of it. I should put it in a text file for cut and paste purposes.

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Post #28

Post by SkyChief »

[Replying to post 23 by dianaiad]

dianaiad wrote:

Yes, but you wrote that...and I quote..."all Mormons will become gods" It is important to be more careful in your wording. "All" is untrue, and what do you mean by "gods?"


I was sloppy with the wording. I should have stated some.


dianaiad wrote:

Perhaps if you could tell me what goes through your head when the claim 'we can become gods" is made? You know, define the terms? I'm not trying to be slippery here. I'm attempting to get on the same level of communication. You realize that your statement, under 'Mormon beliefs that bug me" of "all Mormons will become gods" is rather confrontational.


Not meant to be confrontational. I was just surprised to learn that SOME Mormons have a belief that SOME Mormons have the potential to become gods. As evident by the quote from the link I posted from askmormongirl. I presume she's Mormon, otherwise her avatar makes no sense. As askmormongirl states in her blog, "This doctrine is viewed as heresy by the rest of the Christian world. It’s also one of the boldest claims Mormon doctrine makes, so it has been the subject of a great deal of sensationalism."

This is why I thought the concept was appropriate for this thread. I should not have stated that all Mormons believe this. Clearly, as you pointed out, not all do.

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Post #29

Post by dianaiad »

SkyChief wrote: [Replying to post 23 by dianaiad]

dianaiad wrote:

Yes, but you wrote that...and I quote..."all Mormons will become gods" It is important to be more careful in your wording. "All" is untrue, and what do you mean by "gods?"


I was sloppy with the wording. I should have stated some.


dianaiad wrote:

Perhaps if you could tell me what goes through your head when the claim 'we can become gods" is made? You know, define the terms? I'm not trying to be slippery here. I'm attempting to get on the same level of communication. You realize that your statement, under 'Mormon beliefs that bug me" of "all Mormons will become gods" is rather confrontational.


Not meant to be confrontational. I was just surprised to learn that SOME Mormons have a belief that SOME Mormons have the potential to become gods. As evident by the quote from the link I posted from askmormongirl. I presume she's Mormon, otherwise her avatar makes no sense. As askmormongirl states in her blog, "This doctrine is viewed as heresy by the rest of the Christian world. It’s also one of the boldest claims Mormon doctrine makes, so it has been the subject of a great deal of sensationalism."

This is why I thought the concept was appropriate for this thread. I should not have stated that all Mormons believe this. Clearly, as you pointed out, not all do.
Sorry for the delay in answering this. It's the end of a school term for me and I'm a bit on the frazzled side.

Actually, 'deification' is a term that applies to all Christianity...though there are a great many Christians who are surprised by the idea and that it sort of comes with the territory. ;) It's skimmed over a lot.

What we believe is that we can become 'heirs and joint-heirs' with Jesus and have everything He does. (Rom. 8:17)

God the Father is, we believe, quite literally our Father. Jesus is our Savior...and in a very literal way, our Older Brother.

We all have (not just Mormons) the opportunity/capacity/possibility of becoming like God.

If you do a search on 'heirs and joint-heirs," you will find that there are many Christian belief systems that address deification, skirting 'round the concept gingerly, but still coming up with pretty much the same ideas that Mormons just come right out and declare. ;)

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Re: Mormon beliefs that bug me

Post #30

Post by Yahu »

Robert H wrote:
- The idea of prophets and apostles who run and govern the church of Christ with divine authority.
- Now this is just crazy talk. We know it happened in the Bible, in fact, we know it ALWAYS happened in the Bible. Why would God ever need to do that today though? That is just silly. No, I for one am for the rationale that God had some of his prophets write a little of their stories, then hand it down through many corrupt generations to come to us as confusing as it is, where millions would argue over it and form hundreds of different Christian sects.

- Polygamy
- Now this one I really laugh and laugh about. Who in their right mind would want to have more than one wife?! Hahahahaha! Then again, maybe there are lots and lots of chores to be done when running a farming community? I wouldn't know though, our country has made it illegal because they consider it gross and wrong. Sort of the same way the country felt about gay sex and interracial marriage. But I know Mormons didn't invent the idea, maybe Father Abraham or Jacob paved the way. Ah, in fact, the whole house of Israel, the sacred and blessed people of the Lord all practiced polygamy. The very blood line of the Savior Himself comes from a polygamist family. Without Jacob marrying his 4 wives and having his 12 sons, the line of Judah would have never existed and the Messiah would have never been born. But no, I must stick with modern western culture's concept of marriage and conclude that polygamy is evil and anyone from Old Testament times that did such a thing was evil. I personally think we should take steps to erase that terrible polygamist culture of the Hebrews from the Bible.
While I agree that Mormon's and JW have some screwy doctrines, I do disagree on these points.

The New Testament is clear that prophets and apostles are still active callings and also warns us of false prophets. While I would put Mormon's as follower's of a false prophet that doesn't mean there are no prophets now. The book of Acts is clear that new prophets were raised up within the churches.

As a matter of fact, that is my calling. I was calling into ministry as a prophet under the power and spirit of Elijah. At the time I thought it was ridiculous that I would have such a calling. Within 6 months I met a young woman that was the prime candidate to be the next worldwide high priestess of Ashtoreth and idolized the biblical character Jezebel. We had a 3 year long running battle while I was in the military. That conflict ended with the high priestess and her coven prosecuted for their actions and I was their main nemesis standing against their actions. The coven members either repented or died in prison.

Now to your question of why would there need to be prophets now? I would say, why wouldn't there be a need for them? Now I don't run around saying 'thus saith the LORD, ...' As a matter of fact, I have only given prophetic words twice in my entire life. The first was when directly confronting the coven I mentioned above. The other was when in the midst of a major conflict in college years later. Both times there were major impacts from the messages. Most of the coven repented and got saved as a result. The result of the second time was a major impact on the college campus and effected at least 3 local churches, two of which ended up splitting off from their parent denominations. It impacted a Baptist, a Presbyterian and a Church of God. The Presbyterian pastor repented of teaching false doctrines. His wife repented of being a Jezebel before the congregation. The pastor started teaching on the gifts of the spirit, brought revival to the congregation then the entire congregation was cast out of the Presbyterian denomination. The prophetic word had been directed at his daughter at college.

Now I also don't see anything wrong with polygamy. I do not believe it is the ideal but also not forbidden. I was personally asked to be a polygamist when my wife brought a close female friend who asked me to marry her as well. Granted dealing with more then one wife is FAR harder then dealing with a single wife and I don't recommend it. I did study it out as a result and didn't find any scriptural reason to forbid its practice. No I am not a polygamist but have no objections to it.

Personally, I think a good man should be able to take on additional wives. It would solve a lot of our social issues of single mom's raising children alone.

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