Separating Facts and Feelings with Language .

Getting to know more about a specific belief

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Makahiya2028
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Separating Facts and Feelings with Language .

Post #1

Post by Makahiya2028 »

I have spent a lot of time discussing theology in Christian forums.

The central critical issue in theology is final authority.

Catholics believe their church is the final authority.

Baptist believe scripture is the final authority,

so final canonization becomes the issue.


I want to start by saying I sincerity appreciate this forum site !

I'd like to make a couple critical statement.


Everyone, even Christians, have the exact same issues with the God of the Holy Bible.

Dr. Peter Ruckman, Ph.D. is the most prolific author of bible apologetics/polemics of all time.

I have spent 30 years reading his books, watching his videos

and personally conferenced with him over the years.

Even Dr. Ruckman openly stated that he does not like the presentation of eternal damnation in the Holy Bible.

I spent time with Dr. Paul Kurtz, the co-author of the humanists manifesto II,

he also does not like the presentation of eternal damnation in the Holy Bible.


This time in your forum is important to me !



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Makahiya2028
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Re: Separating Facts and Feelings with Language .

Post #11

Post by Makahiya2028 »

2ndpillar wrote: [Replying to post 1 by Makahiya2028]

Dear Mak,
The "bible" is not holy. The canon of the bible was formalized by a mother of harlots, who sits on the beast (empire of Rome as 5th thru 8th head of the beast). Your basic premise is wrong. Whether the Roman church and her pope, supposed heir of Petros, is the "rock" the church is built on, or her canon, which consists of the good seed, mixed with the seed of the evil one, the tares, is a false comparison.

The rock, petra, the church is built on is the Spirit of Revelation (Mt 16:17), which is exemplified by the "testimony of Yeshua" (Revelation 19:10). The only firm foundation is to heed the testimony of Yeshua (Mt 7:26). Those that heed Petros, the small stone, also a term applied to Simon Bar Jonas, rely on a small stone (petros), which is like unto building a house on sand, and when the rains and wind come, the house will fall (Mt 7:27). Per Isaiah 22:25, all who hang onto this head of household, who supposedly holds the keys of David, will be "cut off".

I know, but there is a book which is the most published, translated

and read book of all time (single fact, single point),

with two words on the cover, Holy Bible.


Please, let's move back up to the very biggest issue in thought, hell,

it's concept, the word and the definition.


This is the single biggest issue everyone has with the concept, including Christians :

" How could God be a good God (language premise-English Holy Bible)

if he would punish people in hell for eternity ?


Seriously, I'm not debating, I'm asking, if you agree ?



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Last edited by Makahiya2028 on Sun Apr 19, 2015 1:57 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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ttruscott
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Re: Separating Facts and Feelings with Language .

Post #12

Post by ttruscott »

Makahiya2028 wrote: ...

The single biggest issue is hell .
I don't have a PH D nor have I written a book on theology but you may find something interesting in these thoughts...

The basis for the necessity of HELL:

1. Some evil must be eternal.
Evil that is temporary, that is, curable or forgivable holds no justification for hell. Therefore the contention that the good seed are reformed tares and the sheep are reformed goats holds the premise that all sinners have the potential for redemption, even Satan, which makes it impossible to believe in or ever suggest the possibility of a hell. By teaching us of hell, GOD must be implying that some evil is eternal.

2. Heaven can be corrupted:
Also known as a little leaven leavens the whole lump. All leaven (sin) had to be cleansed from the houses (lives) of the Israelites before the exodus (escape from the slavery to sin) before the promised land (the heavenly state) could be found.

IF the internal kingdom of heaven is symbolized by our communion then it will be finalized as a telepathic communion of both emotion (love) and communication between everyone in the heavenly state, including GOD, throughout all of created reality. This is the bond that must be protected from the slightest taint or hint of evil by not being instituted until every person who is temporarily caught in sin is released and taught by the discipline of suffering to always choose the righteous choice, that is, to be truly holy in their free will like an angel.

3. Hell protects heaven from corruption:
If the heavenly communion will permeate all of created reality then an eternally evil person must be banished from all of created reality and I see a possible reference to that in the phrase, "the outer darkness" as referring to that which is past the edge of created reality supposing created reality is not infinite.

These things spell out for me the basis for a loving GOD to teach about hell. IF all evil is not eternal, either by it being curable or by the annihilation of the evil person, then there is obviously no hell, in which case I cannot see any reason for GOD to blather on about hell like a demented sun stricken monk.

Peace, Ted
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

Makahiya2028
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Re: Separating Facts and Feelings with Language .

Post #13

Post by Makahiya2028 »

[Replying to post 12 by ttruscott]

Please, I need a yes or no to my question, simple, only takes 2 seconds.

A conversation which starts with a point of agreement has a premise.


I will carefully read your statements, but I want to remain on point.

I was in conversation with someone on here last night,

I don't know if he was a monitor or what, but agreed whole heartily .


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Re: Separating Facts and Feelings with Language .

Post #14

Post by ttruscott »

Makahiya2028 wrote: [[url=http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 042#709042]Replying

Please, I need a yes or no to my question, simple, only takes 2 seconds.

....
Sure, ask a yes or no question then without all the baggage. There is no yes or no question in the original post....

Peace, Ted
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

Makahiya2028
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Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:05 pm

Re: Separating Facts and Feelings with Language .

Post #15

Post by Makahiya2028 »

ttruscott wrote:
Makahiya2028 wrote: [[url=http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 042#709042]Replying

Please, I need a yes or no to my question, simple, only takes 2 seconds.

....
Sure, ask a yes or no question then without all the baggage. There is no yes or no question in the original post....

Peace, Ted
You are calling my statements as baggage, that's subjective,

and yes you can answer my question.

Do you agree with my intended thought ?


Maybe I should first ask the question,

are you willing to agree with things you agree with ?



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Makahiya2028
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Re: Separating Facts and Feelings with Language .

Post #16

Post by Makahiya2028 »

[Replying to post 2 by Makahiya2028]

The method is science, math, logic and language,

the widest premise is existence and reality,

the logic categories are hypothesis, theory and fact,

and the language is English .



The concept of hell is the most terrifying thought ever

and the single biggest issue in philosophy and theology, including with Christians.





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Post #17

Post by Bust Nak »

2ndpillar wrote: The "bible" is not holy. The canon of the bible was formalized by a mother of harlots, who sits on the beast (empire of Rome as 5th thru 8th head of the beast).
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Please do not refer to the Catholic church as a mother of harlots.

Please review the Rules.


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Re: Separating Facts and Feelings with Language .

Post #18

Post by ttruscott »

Makahiya2028 wrote:
ttruscott wrote:
Makahiya2028 wrote: [[url=http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 042#709042]Replying

Please, I need a yes or no to my question, simple, only takes 2 seconds.

....
Sure, ask a yes or no question then without all the baggage. There is no yes or no question in the original post....

Peace, Ted
You are calling my statements as baggage, that's subjective,

and yes you can answer my question.

Do you agree with my intended thought ?


Maybe I should first ask the question,

are you willing to agree with things you agree with ?

Ask me a yes or no question. I do not yet know which is your intended thought.
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

Makahiya2028
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Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:05 pm

Post #19

Post by Makahiya2028 »

Divine Insight wrote:
Makahiya2028 wrote: [Replying to post 5 by JoeyKnothead]

The message of the Holy Bible .
Here, I started a thread for you Makahiya:

What is the Message of the Holy Bible?

I've already posted my answer to this question. Perhaps you can type in your answer.

Keep in mind that the thread I started is in "General Chat". So you don't need to "debate" my position in that thread. Just state your own position. ;)

If you would like to debate my position we can do that in another thread.

wow, thank you !

I going to spend my time in the thread you started for me

and time in my other thread in the discussion forum.

Both threads are in the right place .


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Makahiya2028
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Post #20

Post by Makahiya2028 »

[Replying to post 10 by Divine Insight]

I'm sure, this topic is the most terrifying topic in human thought .

I am certain everyone of us have the same thoughts and the same feelings about this .

I know the correct theological responses and I know God's ways are past finding out,

but maybe someone can say something helpful .



KJV Romans 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge

of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!






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