May you have peace!
A question that continues to be posed to me is with regard to my bearing witness to a living and speaking Christ. How does He speak? What does that mean? How can we test that?
I imagine that one reason the questions are continually posed to me is because I cannot provide the proof that some are asking me to provide. I can only provide evidence in the form of:
a) Personal testimony from having heard Christ
b) The written testimony of or about others who have heard Christ
c) What Christ Himself is written to have said on the matter
If none of the above are acceptable to someone, then I am not sure what more that person and I would have to talk about on this particular matter. We could hopefully discuss respectfully from a point of love, reason, logic. For those who are interested...
Christ said that His sheep would hear His voice.
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me." John 10:27
"I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me, even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. "I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.…" John 10:14-16
Written testimony about/from others who heard His voice, confirming the truth of what He said:
The Spirit told Philip, "Go to that chariot and stay near it." Acts 8:29
**
In Damascus, there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, "Ananias!"
"Yes Lord," he answered.
The Lord told him, "Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight." (Acts 9:10,11... and it continues)
**
There is Peter's vision telling him that he should eat foods that he considered unclean, and then after his vision:
While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit (Christ) said to him, "Simon, three men are looking for you. So get up and go downstairs. Do not hesitate to go with them, for I have sent them." (Acts 10: 9-20)
**
There are of course multiple examples from Paul. The entire book of Revelation is from Christ to John. There is a warning against hardening our hearts if we hear His voice.
As has just been said: "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion." Hebrews 3:15
Then of course there are the examples of Abraham, who heard, Noah, who heard, the prophets, who heard, Joseph, who heard, Daniel, who heard, etc, etc. Their faith is based upon the evidence of what they heard.
My own personal testimony
I did not always know that Christ spoke, and I did not always recognize that voice within me as being His. But someone else bore witness to a living speaking Christ, and it bothered me, lol. I had just ended a two year bible study with a certain denomination, and I did not want to get misled by man ever gain. But here was this person claiming that Christ spoke. If I believed this person, that they were from God, then what was wrong with me that I allowed myself to get misled yet again. On the other hand, what was wrong with me if this person did hear Christ, and I rejected them?
But soon into my dilemma (and my asking how I might know, even though I thought I was just asking myself) I heard:
Test WHAT this person is saying. Test the message. Do not pay attention to the person. Test to see if what this person is saying is true, or not. Then you will know who this person is from.
I still did not know this was Christ speaking to me. I just thought, "Oh, of course... that is what I will do."
So that is what I did. Along the way, I saw all these verses and examples and testimony that Christ does indeed speak, that God spoke also, though now speaks through Christ. In dreams, in visions, in direct words, in reminders, in opening eyes and ears to a truth that one might read, see, or hear. Once I realized that Christ is supposed to speak, I asked for ears to hear as well. Even though I did hear Him; I just did not know I heard Him. I needed to learn His voice and recognize Him.
**
I was asked how does He speak
He speaks in words. He speaks in visions (I have never had a vision that I am aware of). He speaks in dreams. He can also bring to mind something learned, read, or experienced in the past to help me see the truth in something He is teaching me. He has opened my eyes to something that is written, if I am reading the bible. He can and has read to me something that He is written to have said, so that I hear it in His voice. That was enlightening.
Sometimes when I am responding to something that someone else has asked, He will give me the words to say, or reveal something to me (as in open my heart and ears to understanding something) that I had not previously understood.
The language that He speaks is truth. He has never spoken anything to me that was not true, and that was not from love. And everything He teaches me deepens my understanding of love: His love and the love of His Father.
(As for testing the inspired expression... anything that is in conflict with what Christ teaches cannot be true. Also Christ (truth) comes from love (God), so nothing that He says will be in conflict with love. Especially since the law that is written upon our hearts in the new covenant is the law of love.)
**
I do not expect anyone to take my word for these things. I do not take the word of others for what they claim came from Christ. I explained above what I did, what I heard from Christ TO do.
If I have shared anything that helps anyone, then great. If not, then no problem. I am not the one people should be listening to if they are following or desiring to follow Christ... I can only point TO that One: Christ Jaheshua, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, the Chosen One of Jah. Christ, who is Himself, the faithful and true witness of His Father, Jah.
If one wants to know the truth of this matter themselves... then ask Christ. That is how one can confirm for themselves. Ask for ears to hear, and in the meantime DO what He has said to do, so that you prove yourself to Him. He does not have to prove Himself to us.
"If anyone loves me, they will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come and make our home with (in) them."
(Please note that He says that they will obey HIS teaching. Not man's teaching. Not religion or religious leaders, not Paul, not the law, or anyone or anything else over Him. If we love HIM... we will obey HIM. If we love someone or something else more, then we will listen to and obey that one/thing. Including if we love our religion more than Him, although we might not realize it at the time. Including if we think the bible is the Word of God, especially when even that book states that Christ is the Word of God; and Christ himself said, "You diligently search the scriptures because you think that by them you have eternal life. These are the scriptures that testify about ME, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.")
May anyone who wishes them be given ears to hear, to get a sense of these things, and to hear as the Spirit (Christ) and the bride SAY to you, "Come... take the free gift of the water of life."
Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
Does Christ speak and how?
Moderator: Moderators
- William
- Savant
- Posts: 14186
- Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
- Location: Te Waipounamu
- Has thanked: 912 times
- Been thanked: 1644 times
- Contact:
Re: Does Christ speak and how?
Post #231[Replying to tam in post #230]
For my part, I am focused on referring to the entity as "YHWH" and thus am asking if there is a difference you see between YHWH and JAH?
You wrote in a recent post;
Different roles, same personality acting out the roles.
This means that your statement quoted above means "I am listening to the Son and The Father without distinction".
"They" are the same entity, are they not?
We see the same sight differently and our understanding is therefore different too.
I am not sure what your point is. Are the names you use identifying different entities?
You are focused upon making sure the reader is aware that the names you use are particular to the entity you are prescribing them to.I'm not sure what you mean now, lol.
Different entities from what?
For my part, I am focused on referring to the entity as "YHWH" and thus am asking if there is a difference you see between YHWH and JAH?
You wrote in a recent post;
You appear to be defining the two entities as 'different' when clearly they are not. "I and The Father are One."I am listening to Christ - the Word of God - because that is who the Father has told me to listen TO.
Different roles, same personality acting out the roles.
This means that your statement quoted above means "I am listening to the Son and The Father without distinction".
"They" are the same entity, are they not?
I do not differentiate between YHWH, or any connected in relationship with YHWH.
Yes it does, thank you Tammy.I don't know what that means either, William. I will try to just explain what I have done above:
God (whose name is JAH, see Psalm 86:4... though His name is also written as JAHVEH, rendered only as [YHWH] without the consonants) is a different person than His Son (whose name is Jaheshua).
Being one with Christ, with God, means being in union with. It does not mean being the same person/entity.
Does that answer your question or did I misunderstand what you were asking?
We see the same sight differently and our understanding is therefore different too.
- tam
- Savant
- Posts: 6443
- Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:59 pm
- Has thanked: 353 times
- Been thanked: 324 times
- Contact:
Re: Does Christ speak and how?
Post #232Peace to you,
"I and the Father are one," does not mean that they are the same person/entity. As Christ explained here:
“My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.
He is not saying that these people will be the same person/entity. Or that these people will be the same person as God (or even as His Son). Or even that He and His Father are the same person. Each has their own name (just as we do). Christ has many of the same titles as His Father, because He is the Son and HEIR to all God's Kingdom (and all authority has been given to Him).
But the MOST Holy One is the Father (who has His own name).
The HOLY One is the Son (who also has His own name, though His name means JAH saves/savior of JAH).
Peace again to you!
YHWH is just a rendering of His name without the consonants.William wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 2:32 pm [Replying to tam in post #230]
I am not sure what your point is. Are the names you use identifying different entities?You are focused upon making sure the reader is aware that the names you use are particular to the entity you are prescribing them to.I'm not sure what you mean now, lol.
Different entities from what?
For my part, I am focused on referring to the entity as "YHWH" and thus am asking if there is a difference you see between YHWH and JAH?
They are not the same entity, no. (I think you got that from the explanation below.)You wrote in a recent post;
You appear to be defining the two entities as 'different' when clearly they are not. "I and The Father are One."I am listening to Christ - the Word of God - because that is who the Father has told me to listen TO.
Different roles, same personality acting out the roles.
This means that your statement quoted above means "I am listening to the Son and The Father without distinction".
"They" are the same entity, are they not?
"I and the Father are one," does not mean that they are the same person/entity. As Christ explained here:
“My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.
He is not saying that these people will be the same person/entity. Or that these people will be the same person as God (or even as His Son). Or even that He and His Father are the same person. Each has their own name (just as we do). Christ has many of the same titles as His Father, because He is the Son and HEIR to all God's Kingdom (and all authority has been given to Him).
But the MOST Holy One is the Father (who has His own name).
The HOLY One is the Son (who also has His own name, though His name means JAH saves/savior of JAH).
You're welcome William.I do not differentiate between YHWH, or any connected in relationship with YHWH.Yes it does, thank you Tammy.I don't know what that means either, William. I will try to just explain what I have done above:
God (whose name is JAH, see Psalm 86:4... though His name is also written as JAHVEH, rendered only as [YHWH] without the consonants) is a different person than His Son (whose name is Jaheshua).
Being one with Christ, with God, means being in union with. It does not mean being the same person/entity.
Does that answer your question or did I misunderstand what you were asking?
I'm not sure we are seeing the same sight; regardless, our eyes can deceive us. That is one of the reasons I know that I must listen to Christ. What He says, teaches is true... regardless of what you or I or religion or anyone else thinks, sees, believes, interprets.We see the same sight differently and our understanding is therefore different too.
Peace again to you!
- Non-religious Christian spirituality
- For Christ (who is the Spirit)
- For Christ (who is the Spirit)
- William
- Savant
- Posts: 14186
- Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
- Location: Te Waipounamu
- Has thanked: 912 times
- Been thanked: 1644 times
- Contact:
Re: Does Christ speak and how?
Post #233[Replying to tam in post #232]
Our understanding is different. You appear to think that I am being deceived whereas you believe you have the right understanding.
I see YHWH in all things. It is the One Consciousness involved in all the roles being played out, and some of the roles being played out are closer to the reality of YHWH-personality, than are others.
Nothing lives without YHWH permitting it to do so.
Your focus is on the role of The Son as separate from The Father, whereas I detect no such separation.
That is the difference in our understanding.
You are enabled to judge me 'deceived' because of your understanding, whereas I - in my understanding - are unable to make that call about your - or anyone else's understanding, no matter how different they are from my own.
So I hear YHWH when the order not to judge, is given.
Can you tell us of even one thing that YHWH has ever spoken to you without using the voice of others to do so.
Our eyes have little to do with it Tammy, for they are specific to seeing physical reality.We see the same sight differently and our understanding is therefore different too.
I'm not sure we are seeing the same sight; regardless, our eyes can deceive us.
Our understanding is different. You appear to think that I am being deceived whereas you believe you have the right understanding.
I see YHWH in all things. It is the One Consciousness involved in all the roles being played out, and some of the roles being played out are closer to the reality of YHWH-personality, than are others.
Nothing lives without YHWH permitting it to do so.
Your focus is on the role of The Son as separate from The Father, whereas I detect no such separation.
That is the difference in our understanding.
You are enabled to judge me 'deceived' because of your understanding, whereas I - in my understanding - are unable to make that call about your - or anyone else's understanding, no matter how different they are from my own.
So I hear YHWH when the order not to judge, is given.
Can you tell us of even one thing that YHWH has ever spoken to you without using the voice of others to do so.
- tam
- Savant
- Posts: 6443
- Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:59 pm
- Has thanked: 353 times
- Been thanked: 324 times
- Contact:
Re: Does Christ speak and how?
Post #234Peace to you,
We are permitted (even told) to use discernment; to TEST the inspired expressions, holding all things up against the Light (Christ, who is also the Truth). Because people do lie (either on purpose, or due to having been misled/deceived, or due to misunderstanding).
Christ even said:
I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked people, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false.
Peace again to you.
As His own person, yes. He is one with His Father, but that does not make them the same person.William wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 3:14 pm [Replying to tam in post #232]
Our eyes have little to do with it Tammy, for they are specific to seeing physical reality.We see the same sight differently and our understanding is therefore different too.
I'm not sure we are seeing the same sight; regardless, our eyes can deceive us.
Our understanding is different. You appear to think that I am being deceived whereas you believe you have the right understanding.
I see YHWH in all things. It is the One Consciousness involved in all the roles being played out, and some of the roles being played out are closer to the reality of YHWH-personality, than are others.
Nothing lives without YHWH permitting it to do so.
Your focus is on the role of The Son as separate from The Father, whereas I detect no such separation.
You might consider that you are confusing judgment/condemnation with judgment/discerning. We are permitted to use discernment. We are not permitted to condemn, cast judgment, and as you can see from my previous post, I hesitate to even use the word 'deserve' when speaking as to what someone else might 'deserve'.That is the difference in our understanding.
You are enabled to judge me 'deceived' because of your understanding, whereas I - in my understanding - are unable to make that call about your - or anyone else's understanding, no matter how different they are from my own.
So I hear YHWH when the order not to judge, is given.
We are permitted (even told) to use discernment; to TEST the inspired expressions, holding all things up against the Light (Christ, who is also the Truth). Because people do lie (either on purpose, or due to having been misled/deceived, or due to misunderstanding).
Christ even said:
I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked people, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false.
God speaks to us through His Son. I have always said that I hear His Son (Christ is the Word of God). You and I have had this conversation before (in this thread I think), and the OP contains examples of the thing that you are asking, as to listening to/hearing Christ.Can you tell us of even one thing that YHWH has ever spoken to you without using the voice of others to do so.
Peace again to you.
- Non-religious Christian spirituality
- For Christ (who is the Spirit)
- For Christ (who is the Spirit)
- William
- Savant
- Posts: 14186
- Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
- Location: Te Waipounamu
- Has thanked: 912 times
- Been thanked: 1644 times
- Contact:
Re: Does Christ speak and how?
Post #235[Replying to tam in post #234]
Can we assume then that neither of us is judging the other? What is you discernment telling you?
Speaking for myself, I remind the reader I accept your position without discerning it 'good' or 'bad' and will continue to do so as I try and understand what it is you are saying which is any different from what it is I am saying to any point where it need be discerned as 'this' or as 'that'.
They are heard in the person - with no distinction discernable.
The quibble is what? that you are trying to make a distinction...
You might consider that using the word deserve is not meant to be taken as a negative. I used the word in relation to a positive outcome.You might consider that you are confusing judgment/condemnation with judgment/discerning. We are permitted to use discernment. We are not permitted to condemn, cast judgment, and as you can see from my previous post, I hesitate to even use the word 'deserve' when speaking as to what someone else might 'deserve'.
Can we assume then that neither of us is judging the other? What is you discernment telling you?
Speaking for myself, I remind the reader I accept your position without discerning it 'good' or 'bad' and will continue to do so as I try and understand what it is you are saying which is any different from what it is I am saying to any point where it need be discerned as 'this' or as 'that'.
Can you tell us of even one thing that YHWH has ever spoken to you without using the voice of others to do so.
And where are these words spoken, to be found? In the bible alone? Of course not.God speaks to us through His Son. I have always said that I hear His Son (Christ is the Word of God). You and I have had this conversation before (in this thread I think), and the OP contains examples of the thing that you are asking, as to listening to/hearing Christ.
They are heard in the person - with no distinction discernable.
The quibble is what? that you are trying to make a distinction...
- tam
- Savant
- Posts: 6443
- Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:59 pm
- Has thanked: 353 times
- Been thanked: 324 times
- Contact:
Re: Does Christ speak and how?
Post #236Peace to you,
The problem - if it can even be called a problem - is that people who don't trust their selves to formulate together with YHWH - a relationship - deserve to be turned away by the gatekeepers, themselves whom also deserve the same.
That doesn't sound like a positive outcome.
Peace again to you.
You said:William wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 4:49 pm [Replying to tam in post #234]
You might consider that using the word deserve is not meant to be taken as a negative. I used the word in relation to a positive outcome.You might consider that you are confusing judgment/condemnation with judgment/discerning. We are permitted to use discernment. We are not permitted to condemn, cast judgment, and as you can see from my previous post, I hesitate to even use the word 'deserve' when speaking as to what someone else might 'deserve'.
The problem - if it can even be called a problem - is that people who don't trust their selves to formulate together with YHWH - a relationship - deserve to be turned away by the gatekeepers, themselves whom also deserve the same.
That doesn't sound like a positive outcome.
Yes. I never assumed that you were judging me to begin with.Can we assume then that neither of us is judging the other? What is you discernment telling you?
Agreed.Can you tell us of even one thing that YHWH has ever spoken to you without using the voice of others to do so.And where are these words spoken, to be found? In the bible alone? Of course not.God speaks to us through His Son. I have always said that I hear His Son (Christ is the Word of God). You and I have had this conversation before (in this thread I think), and the OP contains examples of the thing that you are asking, as to listening to/hearing Christ.
No distinction from what? I'm not sure what you are saying there is no distinction from?They are heard in the person - with no distinction discernable.
Peace again to you.
- Non-religious Christian spirituality
- For Christ (who is the Spirit)
- For Christ (who is the Spirit)
- William
- Savant
- Posts: 14186
- Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
- Location: Te Waipounamu
- Has thanked: 912 times
- Been thanked: 1644 times
- Contact:
Re: Does Christ speak and how?
Post #237[Replying to tam in post #236]
YHWH is still involved, but the involvement is not YHWH-personality to individual-personality but through mediums.
So - where YHWH is involved - the outlook can only ever eventually be positive.
They are aligned and as such together to the degree that there is no discernable difference, regardless of the roles of position being played.
Not the most positive, depending upon how the individual experiences it.You said:
That doesn't sound like a positive outcome.The problem - if it can even be called a problem - is that people who don't trust their selves to formulate together with YHWH - a relationship - deserve to be turned away by the gatekeepers, themselves whom also deserve the same.
YHWH is still involved, but the involvement is not YHWH-personality to individual-personality but through mediums.
So - where YHWH is involved - the outlook can only ever eventually be positive.
Can we assume then that neither of us is judging the other? What is you discernment telling you?
Yes.
That would be because I never have made remarks about your position of belief that it is a case of you -perhaps -being "deceived by lying spirits".I never assumed that you were judging me to begin with.
They are heard in the person - with no distinction discernable.
No distinction from one another which can possibly be discerned as being 'different' from one another.No distinction from what? I'm not sure what you are saying there is no distinction from?
They are aligned and as such together to the degree that there is no discernable difference, regardless of the roles of position being played.
- tam
- Savant
- Posts: 6443
- Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:59 pm
- Has thanked: 353 times
- Been thanked: 324 times
- Contact:
Re: Does Christ speak and how?
Post #238Peace to you,
If so, is your point meant to be that God and Christ are the same person?
Because that is not what Christ teaches.
Peace again.
Who are you including here as the "one anothers". Christ and God?They are heard in the person - with no distinction discernable.No distinction from one anotherNo distinction from what? I'm not sure what you are saying there is no distinction from?
If so, is your point meant to be that God and Christ are the same person?
Because that is not what Christ teaches.
Peace again.
- Non-religious Christian spirituality
- For Christ (who is the Spirit)
- For Christ (who is the Spirit)
- William
- Savant
- Posts: 14186
- Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
- Location: Te Waipounamu
- Has thanked: 912 times
- Been thanked: 1644 times
- Contact:
Re: Does Christ speak and how?
Post #239[Replying to tam in post #238]
Not the same person - the same personality... coming through a different perspective.
Not the same person - the same personality... coming through a different perspective.
- tam
- Savant
- Posts: 6443
- Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:59 pm
- Has thanked: 353 times
- Been thanked: 324 times
- Contact:
Re: Does Christ speak and how?
Post #240How are you separating personality from person, William?William wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 5:30 pm [Replying to tam in post #238]
Not the same person - the same personality... coming through a different perspective.
Can you define personality as you are using it?
Peace again.
- Non-religious Christian spirituality
- For Christ (who is the Spirit)
- For Christ (who is the Spirit)