Does Christ speak and how?

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Does Christ speak and how?

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Post by tam »

May you have peace!

A question that continues to be posed to me is with regard to my bearing witness to a living and speaking Christ. How does He speak? What does that mean? How can we test that?

I imagine that one reason the questions are continually posed to me is because I cannot provide the proof that some are asking me to provide. I can only provide evidence in the form of:

a) Personal testimony from having heard Christ
b) The written testimony of or about others who have heard Christ
c) What Christ Himself is written to have said on the matter


If none of the above are acceptable to someone, then I am not sure what more that person and I would have to talk about on this particular matter. We could hopefully discuss respectfully from a point of love, reason, logic. For those who are interested...


Christ said that His sheep would hear His voice.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me." John 10:27

"I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me, even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. "I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.…" John 10:14-16



Written testimony about/from others who heard His voice, confirming the truth of what He said:

The Spirit told Philip, "Go to that chariot and stay near it." Acts 8:29

**
In Damascus, there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, "Ananias!"

"Yes Lord," he answered.

The Lord told him, "Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight."
(Acts 9:10,11... and it continues)

**
There is Peter's vision telling him that he should eat foods that he considered unclean, and then after his vision:

While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit (Christ) said to him, "Simon, three men are looking for you. So get up and go downstairs. Do not hesitate to go with them, for I have sent them." (Acts 10: 9-20)

**
There are of course multiple examples from Paul. The entire book of Revelation is from Christ to John. There is a warning against hardening our hearts if we hear His voice.

As has just been said: "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion." Hebrews 3:15

Then of course there are the examples of Abraham, who heard, Noah, who heard, the prophets, who heard, Joseph, who heard, Daniel, who heard, etc, etc. Their faith is based upon the evidence of what they heard.



My own personal testimony


I did not always know that Christ spoke, and I did not always recognize that voice within me as being His. But someone else bore witness to a living speaking Christ, and it bothered me, lol. I had just ended a two year bible study with a certain denomination, and I did not want to get misled by man ever gain. But here was this person claiming that Christ spoke. If I believed this person, that they were from God, then what was wrong with me that I allowed myself to get misled yet again. On the other hand, what was wrong with me if this person did hear Christ, and I rejected them?

But soon into my dilemma (and my asking how I might know, even though I thought I was just asking myself) I heard:

Test WHAT this person is saying. Test the message. Do not pay attention to the person. Test to see if what this person is saying is true, or not. Then you will know who this person is from.


I still did not know this was Christ speaking to me. I just thought, "Oh, of course... that is what I will do."

So that is what I did. Along the way, I saw all these verses and examples and testimony that Christ does indeed speak, that God spoke also, though now speaks through Christ. In dreams, in visions, in direct words, in reminders, in opening eyes and ears to a truth that one might read, see, or hear. Once I realized that Christ is supposed to speak, I asked for ears to hear as well. Even though I did hear Him; I just did not know I heard Him. I needed to learn His voice and recognize Him.

**

I was asked how does He speak

He speaks in words. He speaks in visions (I have never had a vision that I am aware of). He speaks in dreams. He can also bring to mind something learned, read, or experienced in the past to help me see the truth in something He is teaching me. He has opened my eyes to something that is written, if I am reading the bible. He can and has read to me something that He is written to have said, so that I hear it in His voice. That was enlightening.

Sometimes when I am responding to something that someone else has asked, He will give me the words to say, or reveal something to me (as in open my heart and ears to understanding something) that I had not previously understood.


The language that He speaks is truth. He has never spoken anything to me that was not true, and that was not from love. And everything He teaches me deepens my understanding of love: His love and the love of His Father.



(As for testing the inspired expression... anything that is in conflict with what Christ teaches cannot be true. Also Christ (truth) comes from love (God), so nothing that He says will be in conflict with love. Especially since the law that is written upon our hearts in the new covenant is the law of love.)


**

I do not expect anyone to take my word for these things. I do not take the word of others for what they claim came from Christ. I explained above what I did, what I heard from Christ TO do.

If I have shared anything that helps anyone, then great. If not, then no problem. I am not the one people should be listening to if they are following or desiring to follow Christ... I can only point TO that One: Christ Jaheshua, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, the Chosen One of Jah. Christ, who is Himself, the faithful and true witness of His Father, Jah.



If one wants to know the truth of this matter themselves... then ask Christ. That is how one can confirm for themselves. Ask for ears to hear, and in the meantime DO what He has said to do, so that you prove yourself to Him. He does not have to prove Himself to us.

"If anyone loves me, they will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come and make our home with (in) them."


(Please note that He says that they will obey HIS teaching. Not man's teaching. Not religion or religious leaders, not Paul, not the law, or anyone or anything else over Him. If we love HIM... we will obey HIM. If we love someone or something else more, then we will listen to and obey that one/thing. Including if we love our religion more than Him, although we might not realize it at the time. Including if we think the bible is the Word of God, especially when even that book states that Christ is the Word of God; and Christ himself said, "You diligently search the scriptures because you think that by them you have eternal life. These are the scriptures that testify about ME, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.")



May anyone who wishes them be given ears to hear, to get a sense of these things, and to hear as the Spirit (Christ) and the bride SAY to you, "Come... take the free gift of the water of life."


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

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Re: Does Christ speak and how?

Post #221

Post by Rose2020 »

Oh yes, Christ does speak. That still small voice of God is real. It is a matter of whether we allow ourselves to listen, still more a question of whether we follow the guidance freely given.
Sadly, it is easier to follow worldly voices, no matter how unwise, just because they speak loudly.

I find in prayer that if I leave space and silence, have faith and leave problems in His hands, answers always come. Often not turning out in a manner I might have predicted. Yet I know I am cared for, God really does make all things turn out for the good of those who believe in Him. He never fails us if we truly cry out to Him.

I must clarify however that I have never actually heard a voice as are our voices. That is something else entirely I think.

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Re: Does Christ speak and how?

Post #222

Post by Rose2020 »

[Replying to Divine Insight in post #3]

I personally venture to say I also think hearing actual voices is mental illness.
Yet there are many ways of communication. It depends if one's mind is open. I believe God has many ways of letting us know.

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Re: Does Christ speak and how?

Post #223

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
Rose2020 wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 10:18 am Oh yes, Christ does speak.
Thank you, yes! He is a living person, the living Word of God... of course He speaks! (though I did not always know that)
That still small voice of God is real.
Indeed, though God speaks to us through His Son (Christ).
It is a matter of whether we allow ourselves to listen,


Yes... and also a matter of if we WANT to hear what is TRUE. Rather than what we want to BE true. Because Christ does not lie; He will only speak truth to us. If we do not want truth, if we want to hear a lie (even a comforting one), then how will we hear Him?

still more a question of whether we follow the guidance freely given.
Because if we do not want to do or believe what He has told us, then we are more likely to ignore, turn away, dismiss His voice, His words.
Sadly, it is easier to follow worldly voices, no matter how unwise, just because they speak loudly.
Loudly... and sometimes tell us something we may want to hear, rather than what is true. We have to WANT... to SEEK... TRUTH. That is the language Christ (who is Himself the Truth) speaks.
I find in prayer that if I leave space and silence, have faith and leave problems in His hands, answers always come. Often not turning out in a manner I might have predicted. Yet I know I am cared for, God really does make all things turn out for the good of those who believe in Him. He never fails us if we truly cry out to Him.
Myself, I don't have a two-way conversation during prayer. Christ taught us to pray to the Father, and in this prayer, in the example(s) that He left us: to give thanks and praise (this can be done anytime of course, prayer or not), to ask for something if need be, but the Father's will be done (so as to set aside our own will, and put the Father first). Not that you don't already understand that... I am just clarifying.

But I can speak with Christ, ask Him questions and listen anytime.. that is not prayer. Might have to wait for an answer (might not be able to understand that answer or be able to receive it just yet; might have to learn some other things first... and of course we have to listen). No need to get impatient or panicky though... just have and exercise faith, and the manna (food) that we need will come when it is the right time.

Pray to God (who is the Father). Speak to/with Christ.


Peace again to you!
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
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Re: Does Christ speak and how?

Post #224

Post by tam »

Peace to you William,
William wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 12:47 pm So let us examine the evidence together.

Mysticism has it that gateways mentioned are entry/exit points. When you say that "Christ is the gate", Christ is that which requires being opened in order that one can pass through.
Not entirely. Christ is the one through whom one must pass.
We have a saying attributed to biblical ישועה which states;

“But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.”

We know that a Gate 'shuts things up' and prevents someone from entering and in this case what people are being gated from, is the kingdom of heaven.

If ישועה is the gate, how is it that a priesthood can use ישועה to 'prevent Humans from passing through'?
I assume you are meaning to refer to Christ, but in answer to your question:

1 - a priesthood could set up an image of a gate that only APPEARS to be THE Gate (Christ), but it is a fraud.

2 - a priesthood could teach/command people (who listen to them) to do things that take them away from the Gate (Christ)... and/or... to NOT do things that would allow them to approach and enter through the Gate (Christ).


For example, not to pick on a particular religion and 'priesthood' (but it is the one I know)... the WTS (JW religion and leadership) LITERALLY seals up the Kingdom of heaven before men, not entering themselves and not permitting others to enter either. That religion LITERALLY teaches people that they CANNOT enter the Kingdom of heaven, that it is NOT for them, that it is only for a chosen few "Christians" (most if not all of whom - they say - have already been chosen). That religion and its leaders are literally doing the VERY thing that Christ rebuked the Pharisees for doing... but the people do not see it.



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Re: Does Christ speak and how?

Post #225

Post by William »

[Replying to tam in post #224]
So let us examine the evidence together.

Mysticism has it that gateways mentioned are entry/exit points. When you say that "Christ is the gate", Christ is that which requires being opened in order that one can pass through.
Not entirely. Christ is the one through whom one must pass.
Gates guard gateways. Gateways have gates.

It is an interesting sounding word. It is related the the words:
Earth
Heart
Now
Nods
Okay
Create
Form
Ship
Some
Speak
Abracadabra
Okay…
Gates

If Christ is the Gateway, what is the Gate?
1 - a priesthood could set up an image of a gate that only APPEARS to be THE Gate (Christ), but it is a fraud.
So the priesthood are not the gate - but the gate-keepers - according to the story.

Gate-keepers decide who passes and who does not pass. According to the story, neither the gate-keepers nor those they are trying to prevent from going through the gateway, actually go through the gateway.

So the gate and the gateway are not "fraudulent", as you appear to be saying. The gate and the gateway are true. The gatekeepers are false.
2 - a priesthood could teach/command people (who listen to them) to do things that take them away from the Gate (Christ)...
Turn them away. Convince them that this is not the gate they are looking for - are wanting to pass through. Point them in another direction...
and/or... to NOT do things that would allow them to approach and enter through the Gate (Christ).
What 'things' might they be and how does it matter if those 'things' are done, if those doing said 'things' are being pointed elsewhere?
For example, not to pick on a particular religion and 'priesthood' (but it is the one I know)... the WTS (JW religion and leadership) LITERALLY seals up the Kingdom of heaven before men, not entering themselves and not permitting others to enter either. That religion LITERALLY teaches people that they CANNOT enter the Kingdom of heaven, that it is NOT for them, that it is only for a chosen few "Christians" (most if not all of whom - they say - have already been chosen). That religion and its leaders are literally doing the VERY thing that Christ rebuked the Pharisees for doing... but the people do not see it.
Recently a member of the (JW religion and leadership) tired to convince me to accept him/her as someone who can speak on behalf of YHWH - by writing this;
JW: "I am not Almighty God but as his Witness I am qualified to inform people about His feelings on certain topics as outlined in scripture."
I replied thus:
William: Sokay really.

I am qualified to have my own - more direct way in which to be informed by YHWH and the connection is just fine - no need for a medium...
The problem - if it can even be called a problem - is that people who don't trust their selves to formulate together with YHWH - a relationship - deserve to be turned away by the gatekeepers, themselves whom also deserve the same.

It really gets down to a simple formula.

Can YHWH be trusted or not?

Does YHWH trust in me that I can have a direct relationship with YHWH and can I trust in YHWHs trust in that process?

If not, then by all means I can either forget about it, or trust in the gatekeepers to be the medium between myself and YHWH.

Or;
I can pass by [ignore] the gatekeepers and go through the Gateway and directly to The Source.

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Re: Does Christ speak and how?

Post #226

Post by tam »

Peace to you,



If Christ is the Gateway, what is the Gate?
Christ is the Gate and He is the Way. One must pass through Him (and so also with His permission).

1 - a priesthood could set up an image of a gate that only APPEARS to be THE Gate (Christ), but it is a fraud.
So the priesthood are not the gate - but the gate-keepers - according to the story.
The priesthood are not the gate, that is correct. But can you reference the part of the story you are referring to that names "the priesthood' as the gate-keepers?
Gate-keepers decide who passes and who does not pass.


Christ decides who passes and does not pass. No one comes to the Father except through Him. As well, He (as the King of the Kingdom) is the one who later invites the sheep into the Kingdom (and casts the goats out). From the sheep and goats parable.

Not sure if that helps in what you are putting together or not.
According to the story, neither the gate-keepers nor those they are trying to prevent from going through the gateway, actually go through the gateway.
Well, I'm not sure they would be the true gate-keepers of anything then, even if they were SUPPOSED to have been helping people enter the Kingdom of heaven.

But according to the story, the Pharisees and teachers of the law are not entering the Kingdom of heaven, nor allowing others to enter the kingdom of heaven. Blind leading the blind.
So the gate and the gateway are not "fraudulent", as you appear to be saying. The gate and the gateway are true. The gatekeepers are false.
Certainly, I am not saying the Gate/Way (Christ) is fraudulent. Christ is true.

I'm just not connecting gatekeepers with 'priesthood'.
2 - a priesthood could teach/command people (who listen to them) to do things that take them away from the Gate (Christ)...
Turn them away. Convince them that this is not the gate they are looking for - are wanting to pass through. Point them in another direction...
Yes.
and/or... to NOT do things that would allow them to approach and enter through the Gate (Christ).
What 'things' might they be and how does it matter if those 'things' are done, if those doing said 'things' are being pointed elsewhere?
Example below references one teaching which comes with the rejection of a deed that Christ commanded His followers to do (in order to have life in themselves, and in order to remain in Him and Him in them): to eat and drink the bread and wine that mean His flesh and blood.
For example, not to pick on a particular religion and 'priesthood' (but it is the one I know)... the WTS (JW religion and leadership) LITERALLY seals up the Kingdom of heaven before men, not entering themselves and not permitting others to enter either. That religion LITERALLY teaches people that they CANNOT enter the Kingdom of heaven, that it is NOT for them, that it is only for a chosen few "Christians" (most if not all of whom - they say - have already been chosen). That religion and its leaders are literally doing the VERY thing that Christ rebuked the Pharisees for doing... but the people do not see it.
Recently a member of the (JW religion and leadership) tired to convince me to accept him/her as someone who can speak on behalf of YHWH - by writing this;
JW: "I am not Almighty God but as his Witness I am qualified to inform people about His feelings on certain topics as outlined in scripture."
Yes, I saw that. It is somewhat ambiguous. Is JW saying that she is qualified to inform people about how scripture claims God felt about certain topics? Or is JW saying that she is qualified to inform people how God felt about some scriptural topics. I suspect she meant the former (though I could be wrong).
I replied thus:
William: Sokay really.

I am qualified to have my own - more direct way in which to be informed by YHWH and the connection is just fine - no need for a medium...
The problem - if it can even be called a problem - is that people who don't trust their selves to formulate together with YHWH - a relationship - deserve to be turned away by the gatekeepers, themselves whom also deserve the same.
I would not use the word 'deserve' as that implies judgment to me (judgment belongs to God... and His Son also has authority to judge, if He wanted to use that authority).

It is more along the lines of cause and effect. If the blind lead the blind, both fall into the pit. The bad thing is the the blind follower cannot see that the one leading them is blind as well. The good thing is that no one has to remain blind:

I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see. Rev 3:18

He did heal the blind after all.


And of course, one should be listening to Him, following HIS voice, obeying HIS commands (if indeed one loves HIM).
It really gets down to a simple formula.

Can YHWH be trusted or not?

Does YHWH trust in me that I can have a direct relationship with YHWH and can I trust in YHWHs trust in that process?

If not, then by all means I can either forget about it, or trust in the gatekeepers to be the medium between myself and YHWH.

Or;
I can pass by [ignore] the gatekeepers and go through the Gateway and directly to The Source.

It is the GATE (Christ) who is the mediator between man and God. Man <-> Christ <-> God.

There is no religion/religious leaders in that formula. It is NOT: man <-> religion/religious leaders <-> Christ and/or God.



Just Christ. No one comes to the Father except through Him.


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Re: Does Christ speak and how?

Post #227

Post by William »

[Replying to tam in post #226]
No one comes to the Father except through Him.
It really gets down to a simple formula.

Can YHWH be trusted or not?

Does YHWH trust in me that I can have a direct relationship with YHWH and can I trust in YHWHs trust in that process?

If not, then by all means I can either forget about it, or trust in the gatekeepers to be the medium between myself and YHWH.

Or;
I can pass by [ignore] the gatekeepers and go through the Gateway and directly to The Source.

The important thing is that, whether a 'gateway' or a 'bridge' or some other connection device - the connection is between the Person and YHWH - The medium is the gateway/bridge/connecting device - not that which itself is communed with.

Your understanding of the role means that you are listening to what you claim is "The Voice of Christ" as the gateway rather than The Source that the gateway connects one with.

This is why you speak of the shepherd and not whom the Shepard is attempting to herd the sheep toward...and this could be another form of gatekeeping being done by the priest-hood.

The 'priest-hood' is simply a generalized label referring to/representing any who attempt to stand between the individual and YHWH.

Does the Shepard, shepherd his sheep, attempting to move them through the gateway, only to stand in their way of direct communion with YHWH?

When you read the words in the Bible attributed to Christ, are you having a direct relationship with YHWH?

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Re: Does Christ speak and how?

Post #228

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
William wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:45 pm [Replying to tam in post #226]
No one comes to the Father except through Him.
It really gets down to a simple formula.
It does.

No one comes to the Father except through Christ. He is the Way, the Gate, the Word of God, the mediator between man and God.

I'm not sure why you're arguing against that (if indeed you are)?

Do you accept it as true or are you making up a different formula than what Christ said, Himself?
Can YHWH be trusted or not?
God, the Father of Christ, whose name is JAH, can indeed be trusted. He is the One who led me to His Son when I asked to be led wherever He wanted me to be, when I sought to know His truth. He is the One who says to listen to His Son.
Does YHWH trust in me that I can have a direct relationship with YHWH and can I trust in YHWHs trust in that process?
If not, then by all means I can either forget about it, or trust in the gatekeepers to be the medium between myself and YHWH.
You don't need to trust men as gatekeepers. But Christ is the One who has said "No one comes to the Father except through me." Christ is the One who said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.
Or;
I can pass by [ignore] the gatekeepers and go through the Gateway and directly to The Source.
You can ignore men, but not Christ - the true and Living Word of God.
The important thing is that, whether a 'gateway' or a 'bridge' or some other connection device - the connection is between the Person and YHWH - The medium is the gateway/bridge/connecting device - not that which itself is communed with.

Your understanding of the role means that you are listening to what you claim is "The Voice of Christ" as the gateway rather than The Source that the gateway connects one with.
I am listening to Christ - the Word of God - because that is who the Father has told me to listen TO.

Simple.

This is why you speak of the shepherd and not whom the Shepard is attempting to herd the sheep toward...and this could be another form of gatekeeping being done by the priest-hood.
Same answer as above.

Christ is the One who says that His sheep listen to His voice and follow Him. Following Christ is the same as following His Father. Not because they are the same person, but because the Son is the King, the Heir, the One to whom God has directed me TO, and the One to whom God has said to listen. He appointed His SON to be in charge of ALL His belongings, including people.
The 'priest-hood' is simply a generalized label referring to/representing any who attempt to stand between the individual and YHWH.
Okay...

(If someone was attempting to teach people to do something OTHER THAN what Christ teaches, then that generalized label might refer to that person.)

Does the Shepard, shepherd his sheep, attempting to move them through the gateway, only to stand in their way of direct communion with YHWH?
If one wishes to come before the Father in prayer, one may do so... through Christ (and with His permission). Just as no one could enter the Most Holy Place (representative of the Most Holy One) without first passing through the Holy Place (representative of the Holy One: Christ). Anyone trying to enter through some other means was a thief and a robber, and I don't suspect either would gain an audience. Especially not if one insulted the Son by ignoring Him, or by not giving Him anything due Him as the King and Heir of God's Kingdom, and God's beloved Son.

It is like with Joseph and Pharaoh (as an example, not exact, but to get the gist). Pharaoh appointed Joseph in charge of all his kingdom (except over Pharaoh himself). If you wanted something from Pharaoh, you went to Joseph. Joseph was the one in charge. If you attempted to bypass Joseph, well... at the least you could expect to be rejected.
When you read the words in the Bible attributed to Christ, are you having a direct relationship with YHWH?
Reading words is just reading words.

If a person knows Christ, then a person knows His Father also.

And Christ said this:

"If anyone loves me, they will keep my word. My Father will love them, and we will come and make our home with(in) them."


If you are adopted as a son (which adoption occurs with holy spirit, the breath/blood/seed of JAH), then you have a relationship as well. Christ is the One who gives holy spirit (also known as the water of life).


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Re: Does Christ speak and how?

Post #229

Post by William »

[Replying to tam in post #228]

I am not sure what your point is. Are the names you use identifying different entities?

I do not differentiate between YHWH, or any connected in relationship with YHWH.

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Re: Does Christ speak and how?

Post #230

Post by tam »

Peace to you!
William wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 3:12 am [Replying to tam in post #228]

I am not sure what your point is. Are the names you use identifying different entities?
I'm not sure what you mean now, lol.

Different entities from what?
I do not differentiate between YHWH, or any connected in relationship with YHWH.
I don't know what that means either, William. I will try to just explain what I have done above:

God (whose name is JAH, see Psalm 86:4... though His name is also written as JAHVEH, rendered only as [YHWH] without the consonants) is a different person than His Son (whose name is Jaheshua).

Being one with Christ, with God, means being in union with. It does not mean being the same person/entity.




Does that answer your question or did I misunderstand what you were asking?

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