Does Christ speak and how?

[tam]

May you have peace!

A question that continues to be posed to me is with regard to my bearing witness to a living and speaking Christ. How does He speak? What does that mean? How can we test that?

I imagine that one reason the questions are continually posed to me is because I cannot provide the proof that some are asking me to provide. I can only provide evidence in the form of:

a) Personal testimony from having heard Christ
b) The written testimony of or about others who have heard Christ
c) What Christ Himself is written to have said on the matter


If none of the above are acceptable to someone, then I am not sure what more that person and I would have to talk about on this particular matter. We could hopefully discuss respectfully from a point of love, reason, logic. For those who are interested...


Christ said that His sheep would hear His voice.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me." John 10:27

"I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me, even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. "I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.…" John 10:14-16



Written testimony about/from others who heard His voice, confirming the truth of what He said:

The Spirit told Philip, "Go to that chariot and stay near it." Acts 8:29

**
In Damascus, there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, "Ananias!"

"Yes Lord," he answered.

The Lord told him, "Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight." (Acts 9:10,11... and it continues)

**
There is Peter's vision telling him that he should eat foods that he considered unclean, and then after his vision:

While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit (Christ) said to him, "Simon, three men are looking for you. So get up and go downstairs. Do not hesitate to go with them, for I have sent them." (Acts 10: 9-20)

**
There are of course multiple examples from Paul. The entire book of Revelation is from Christ to John. There is a warning against hardening our hearts if we hear His voice.

As has just been said: "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion." Hebrews 3:15

Then of course there are the examples of Abraham, who heard, Noah, who heard, the prophets, who heard, Joseph, who heard, Daniel, who heard, etc, etc. Their faith is based upon the evidence of what they heard.



My own personal testimony


I did not always know that Christ spoke, and I did not always recognize that voice within me as being His. But someone else bore witness to a living speaking Christ, and it bothered me, lol. I had just ended a two year bible study with a certain denomination, and I did not want to get misled by man ever gain. But here was this person claiming that Christ spoke. If I believed this person, that they were from God, then what was wrong with me that I allowed myself to get misled yet again. On the other hand, what was wrong with me if this person did hear Christ, and I rejected them?

But soon into my dilemma (and my asking how I might know, even though I thought I was just asking myself) I heard:

Test WHAT this person is saying. Test the message. Do not pay attention to the person. Test to see if what this person is saying is true, or not. Then you will know who this person is from.


I still did not know this was Christ speaking to me. I just thought, "Oh, of course... that is what I will do."

So that is what I did. Along the way, I saw all these verses and examples and testimony that Christ does indeed speak, that God spoke also, though now speaks through Christ. In dreams, in visions, in direct words, in reminders, in opening eyes and ears to a truth that one might read, see, or hear. Once I realized that Christ is supposed to speak, I asked for ears to hear as well. Even though I did hear Him; I just did not know I heard Him. I needed to learn His voice and recognize Him.

**

I was asked how does He speak

He speaks in words. He speaks in visions (I have never had a vision that I am aware of). He speaks in dreams. He can also bring to mind something learned, read, or experienced in the past to help me see the truth in something He is teaching me. He has opened my eyes to something that is written, if I am reading the bible. He can and has read to me something that He is written to have said, so that I hear it in His voice. That was enlightening.

Sometimes when I am responding to something that someone else has asked, He will give me the words to say, or reveal something to me (as in open my heart and ears to understanding something) that I had not previously understood.


The language that He speaks is truth. He has never spoken anything to me that was not true, and that was not from love. And everything He teaches me deepens my understanding of love: His love and the love of His Father.



(As for testing the inspired expression... anything that is in conflict with what Christ teaches cannot be true. Also Christ (truth) comes from love (God), so nothing that He says will be in conflict with love. Especially since the law that is written upon our hearts in the new covenant is the law of love.)


**

I do not expect anyone to take my word for these things. I do not take the word of others for what they claim came from Christ. I explained above what I did, what I heard from Christ TO do.

If I have shared anything that helps anyone, then great. If not, then no problem. I am not the one people should be listening to if they are following or desiring to follow Christ... I can only point TO that One: Christ Jaheshua, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, the Chosen One of Jah. Christ, who is Himself, the faithful and true witness of His Father, Jah.



If one wants to know the truth of this matter themselves... then ask Christ. That is how one can confirm for themselves. Ask for ears to hear, and in the meantime DO what He has said to do, so that you prove yourself to Him. He does not have to prove Himself to us.

"If anyone loves me, they will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come and make our home with (in) them."


(Please note that He says that they will obey HIS teaching. Not man's teaching. Not religion or religious leaders, not Paul, not the law, or anyone or anything else over Him. If we love HIM... we will obey HIM. If we love someone or something else more, then we will listen to and obey that one/thing. Including if we love our religion more than Him, although we might not realize it at the time. Including if we think the bible is the Word of God, especially when even that book states that Christ is the Word of God; and Christ himself said, "You diligently search the scriptures because you think that by them you have eternal life. These are the scriptures that testify about ME, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.")



May anyone who wishes them be given ears to hear, to get a sense of these things, and to hear as the Spirit (Christ) and the bride SAY to you, "Come... take the free gift of the water of life."


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[William]

I don't understand how you could claim to have a relationship with someone while simultaneously begging Him to make himself known to you.

It is possibly, as some do have these types of human~human relationships but this usually signifies that one of the individuals forming the relationship, withholds their essence from the other, who desperately wants to share their essence with the one withholding.

Your own witness/advice re the voice you hear Tam... - the voice of a male entity inside your own head - ...is off-putting because of its significant link with mental unwellness re "to hear any other voice in ones head but thine own".

Q: Is hearing this male entities voice in one's head, how far you expect other folk to go before you can accept that they are genuinely hearing "The Lords Voice" and having a relationship with that "Voice" in their head, which isn't their own?
___________________________
___________________________

Other questions I have asked, and am awaiting the answers from you.

Q: Why are you now involved with internet interaction with others and claiming what you do, and making negative statements about other Christians?

Q: Are you doing so because the voice told you to, or do you just take it upon yourself to engage with others in this manner?

Q: Would I be correct in thinking that you have an internal dialogue with the voice you speak of?

Q: Are you saying then, that it is your own thought-voice expressing a common sense, rather than you having heard it stated by the other voice you claim, is Christ?

Q: What makes you think that just because some folk have contradictory views, that the whole thing being viewed from these different perspectives, isn't Christ working with what is available to Christ, to work with?

Q: "Contradicts Christ" according to whom? Your point of view or Christs?

Q: Where can this contradiction be found, that we can examine that as evidence against these one's that at least - you speak about?

Q: If you are referring to the bible, how can you know that the bible wasn't concocted by the very religion that you appear to condemn as willfully "not listening"?

[Clownboat]

I do not have any religious leaders, dear Clownboat.

Wait, what happened to Christ? Is he not the voice you hear, a being that provides you with godly knowledge and informs you on how to test scripture? You claim he is your shepherd and the one to whom you claim to be a slave to in most of your posts?

How is that not a religious leader, dear Tam?

And my Lord is the One who teaches me to love myself.

This Lord, that is not your religious leader? You're making my head spin.

How could I love my neighbor as myself if I do not first love myself?

Great question. Now to remind us all of your words: "I may be a good for nothing servant, and I am undeserving, but I am one of His sheep."

Because I am undeserving. That doesn't mean I am not loved, because I am loved. But it also does not mean that I am a good servant, or that I am deserving of the blessings given me.

Correct! It means nothing of those things, but it still stands that this is a mechanism that cult leaders do employ. Take from that what you will.

As I said above... my Lord does teach me to love myself, and so also my neighbor as myself.

Please do not love your neighbors as yourself. Please do not treat them as a good for nothing, underserving servants. That would be viewed as un-loving by many.
Tam: "I may be a good for nothing servant, and I am undeserving, but I am one of His sheep."

My Lord also teaches me to love my enemies.

Perhaps your enemies should be the good for nothing, undeserving servants? Why impose that on your neighbor though?

I don't feel that speading a message of being undeserving and being good for nothing is a loving message myself.

I see a problem in that you are not taking truth into consideration. Truth is not easy; truth does not tell people what they want to hear; truth does come from love but it is not going to tickle the ears; it is just going to be the truth. Like in the Matrix - the only thing Morpheus offered was the truth. He never said it would be nice. He never said it would be easy. Only that it would be true.

"Well, Clownboat, I'm going to continue telling not only my enemies, but also my neighbors that they are good for nothing, underserving servants."
Ok ok! I get it, I would hate to get in the way of your message of love.

You're being unkind IMO and justifying your behavior because of a Bible verse. You don't get to allude to the Bible to absolve you of your actions. This is what I mean when I say I am now more loving and Christ-like having been set free from my religious beliefs.

The words I wrote, I said those things about myself, regarding what I know about myself.

Which got us to, loving your neighbor as yourself.

"Good for nothing' might be a bit harsh (which is why I said 'may be' rather than 'am' - my Lord is the One who knows).

Good for nothing would be harsh.

Good for a little might be a bit too generous.

Why not stick to kindness? No need to treat anyone as good for nothing or even good for a little. Just be kind. Christianity caused me to not be kind to atheists, homosexuals, Catholics and Muslims to name a few, but I was set free and my kindness has grown.

I can sometimes bear witness to my Lord (though you and others have often told me that I do poor job of it so I do not know how you can possible argue with the description).

You post on this forum and don't come across any different then anyone else. That much is true. I don't know what godly knowledge would be, but I think I would recognize it if I saw it..

But I am not deserving. I did nothing to deserve the calling I received, or the anointing, or the blessings. I simply asked (and even then, the faith I had TO ask was given to me). Regardless, since when does asking for something mean that you deserve it?

Tam, you are a human, part of a human society. You are deserving, no matter what a religions has caused you to believe about yourself. If only this belief ONLY applied to you, but your religious beliefs do affect how you view other humans. According to your religion, we are all undeserving, not just Tam. I don't find this kind of thinking to be kind.

Clownboat, I don't understand how you could claim to have a relationship with someone while simultaneously begging Him to make himself known to you. That does not sound like a relationship to me.

It doesn't make sense Tam. It was all a farce.

maybe you did hear His voice but did not recognize Him, and so did not listen to Him.

I have never heard voice or voices for that matter.

Perhaps you did not recognize His voice because religion stepped in your way (as it does), and made you a disciple of it, using "Jesus" (the Hollywood icon it has created of the real person) to gain followers after itself?

Just another terrible excuse and one that certainly could not have stemmed from any godly knowledge. If the god that created the universe spoke to me, there is no religion on the planet that could have caused me to not hear it. 'There's a god speaking to you, but religion got in the way' is rejected for being unsuported and illogical.

Peace again to you.

Peace to you as well!

[tam]

Okay, William first (peace to you),

I don't understand how you could claim to have a relationship with someone while simultaneously begging Him to make himself known to you.

It is possibly, as some do have these types of human~human relationships but this usually signifies that one of the individuals forming the relationship, withholds their essence from the other, who desperately wants to share their essence with the one withholding.

Your own witness/advice re the voice you hear Tam... - the voice of a male entity inside your own head - ...is off-putting because of its significant link with mental unwellness re "to hear any other voice in ones head but thine own".

So I am just going to refer you back to the OP (it is at the top of each page) for my actual witness on my dear Lord speaking.

Q: Is hearing this male entities voice in one's head, how far you expect other folk to go before you can accept that they are genuinely hearing "The Lords Voice" and having a relationship with that "Voice" in their head, which isn't their own?

Other than that this is not how I have described my dear Lord's voice, this is not really my concern, is it? I am just going to test anything anyone claims (via the method that my Lord taught me and that I shared with you, on this thread and forum, and even in the OP).
___________________________
___________________________

Other questions I have asked, and am awaiting the answers from you.

Q: Why are you now involved with internet interaction with others and claiming what you do, and making negative statements about other Christians?

What negative statements do you believe I have made about other Christians?

Q: Are you doing so because the voice told you to, or do you just take it upon yourself to engage with others in this manner?

See above.

Q: Would I be correct in thinking that you have an internal dialogue with the voice you speak of?

How has that question not been answered in the OP?

Q: Are you saying then, that it is your own thought-voice expressing a common sense, rather than you having heard it stated by the other voice you claim, is Christ?

Are you asking this question in an a) general sense, or on a b) more specific point?

If a, then no.

If b, then you need to be more clear.

Q: What makes you think that just because some folk have contradictory views, that the whole thing being viewed from these different perspectives, isn't Christ working with what is available to Christ, to work with?

Because Christ speaks and teaches what is true. He does not teach and speak contradictory things, wherein at least one of those things would then necessarily be false. Christ does not speak and teach falsehood. The language that He speaks is truth.

Q: "Contradicts Christ" according to whom? Your point of view or Christs?

His, of course.

Q: Where can this contradiction be found, that we can examine that as evidence against these one's that at least - you speak about?

Again, are you referring to something specific or are you speaking in general?

For example (and I believe we have discussed this, perhaps even on this thread):

If someone said that the Father's house is filled with 'illusions of our own making', then that claim cannot be true. There is no deception in the Father's house. Christ is the One who promised to take us TO the Father's house, and He leads His sheep into all TRUTH.

Illusions on the other hand are connected with false ideas, misrepresentation, deception.

illusion, a misrepresentation of a “real” sensory stimulus—that is, an interpretation that contradicts objective “reality” as defined by general agreement. For example, a child who perceives tree branches at night as if they are goblins may be said to be having an illusion.

Illusions are special perceptual experiences in which information arising from “real” external stimuli leads to an incorrect perception, or false impression, of the object or event from which the stimulation comes.

Some of these false impressions may arise from factors beyond an individual’s control (such as the characteristic behaviour of light waves that makes a pencil in a glass of water seem bent),

https://www.britannica.com/topic/illusi ... ry-effects

illusion
noun
il·​lu·​sion i-ˈlü-zhən 
plural illusions
1
a
(1) : a misleading image presented to the vision : optical illusion
(2): something that deceives or misleads intellectually
b
(1): perception of something objectively existing in such a way as to cause misinterpretation of its actual nature
(2): hallucination sense 1
(3): a pattern capable of reversible perspective

2
a
(1): the state or fact of being intellectually deceived or misled : misapprehension
(2): an instance of such deception
b
obsolete : the action of deceiving

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/illusion

Q: If you are referring to the bible, how can you know that the bible wasn't concocted by the very religion that you appear to condemn as willfully "not listening"?

We have had this conversation before as well. However, your question does not seem to make sense. Because if religion contradicts "the bible", then they contradict "the bible" - regardless of who "concocted" it.



Peace again to you.

[tam]

Peace to you,

I do not have any religious leaders, dear Clownboat.

Wait, what happened to Christ? Is he not the voice you hear, a being that provides you with godly knowledge and informs you on how to test scripture? You claim he is your shepherd and the one to whom you claim to be a slave to in most of your posts?

How is that not a religious leader, dear Tam?

He is a leader (the Leader, my Leader, King, Master, Lord). But He is not a part of religion; He did not create a religion; religion does not come from Him.

Faith and religion are not the same thing.

You can have/be part of a religion, and at the same time have no faith.

And my Lord is the One who teaches me to love myself.

This Lord, that is not your religious leader? You're making my head spin.

See above.

How could I love my neighbor as myself if I do not first love myself?

Great question. Now to remind us all of your words: "I may be a good for nothing servant, and I am undeserving, but I am one of His sheep."

You are the one reading more into my words than what I have said.

Because I am undeserving. That doesn't mean I am not loved, because I am loved. But it also does not mean that I am a good servant, or that I am deserving of the blessings given me.

Correct! It means nothing of those things, but it still stands that this is a mechanism that cult leaders do employ. Take from that what you will.

There is nothing for me to take from what you have said, other than perhaps revealing something about your personal past experiences in religion.

As I said above... my Lord does teach me to love myself, and so also my neighbor as myself.

Please do not love your neighbors as yourself. Please do not treat them as a good for nothing, underserving servants. That would be viewed as un-loving by many.
Tam: "I may be a good for nothing servant, and I am undeserving, but I am one of His sheep."

What someone else is - or is not - has nothing to do with whether or not I am to love them.

What you are doing here also makes no sense. Because I am a mother (good or bad) does that mean that my neighbor is a mother (good or bad)? If I am a terrible server (waitress), does that mean all other servers are terrible - and even if so, does that mean I do not treat them with respect, show them compassion, forgive them, ask forgiveness for them, give to them if in need, etc, etc?

The fact that I acknowledge that am a poor servant and undeserving does the EXACT opposite of what you imply... it helps me to understand and love others if/when they perform poorly at a task/role - because I know that I would want mercy and forgiveness to be shown to me for my poor service. I thank my dear Lord for reminding me of this just now.

"Be merciful and mercy will be shown you."
"Forgive and you will be forgiven."
"Judge not and you will not be judged."

My Lord also teaches me to love my enemies.

Perhaps your enemies should be the good for nothing, undeserving servants? Why impose that on your neighbor though?

See above.

I don't feel that speading a message of being undeserving and being good for nothing is a loving message myself.

I see a problem in that you are not taking truth into consideration. Truth is not easy; truth does not tell people what they want to hear; truth does come from love but it is not going to tickle the ears; it is just going to be the truth. Like in the Matrix - the only thing Morpheus offered was the truth. He never said it would be nice. He never said it would be easy. Only that it would be true.

"Well, Clownboat, I'm going to continue telling not only my enemies, but also my neighbors that they are good for nothing, underserving servants."

Except of course that is not what I said, is it?

You're being unkind IMO and justifying your behavior because of a Bible verse.

I'm sorry, but what behavior are you referring to here?

The behavior that I described as an instance when my dear Lord reminded me what love does - when my coworker was so down, but I was tired and did not want to get involved? The love that my dear Lord reminded me of, that would offer help to someone in need? The love (as reminded me by my Lord) that helped that person, kept them from committing self-harm (their words).

Is that the behavior that you are referring to?

This is what I mean when I say I am now more loving and Christ-like having been set free from my religious beliefs.

Set free from religion, the cult that you keep referring to? I don't doubt that you are more loving being set free from that. But look at what you said:

You are more Christ-like having been set free from your religious beliefs. How can you say that unless you actually DO know that Christ and religion are not the same thing?

The words I wrote, I said those things about myself, regarding what I know about myself.

Which got us to, loving your neighbor as yourself.

You made that leap, but the negative inferences you have drawn from it have been corrected.

"Good for nothing' might be a bit harsh (which is why I said 'may be' rather than 'am' - my Lord is the One who knows).

Good for nothing would be harsh.

Good for a little might be a bit too generous.

Why not stick to kindness? No need to treat anyone as good for nothing or even good for a little. Just be kind. Christianity caused me to not be kind to atheists, homosexuals, Catholics and Muslims to name a few, but I was set free and my kindness has grown.

See ALL the above, including the difference between what a religion (Christianity) teaches (and taught you), and what Christ teaches.

But I am not deserving. I did nothing to deserve the calling I received, or the anointing, or the blessings. I simply asked (and even then, the faith I had TO ask was given to me). Regardless, since when does asking for something mean that you deserve it?

Tam, you are a human, part of a human society. You are deserving,

Deserving of what exactly?

What is it that you think you are arguing against?

Clownboat, I don't understand how you could claim to have a relationship with someone while simultaneously begging Him to make himself known to you. That does not sound like a relationship to me.

It doesn't make sense Tam. It was all a farce.

Then you did not have a relationship with Him, according to your words. What you had was a relationship with a religion, yes?

Again, these are not the same thing.

maybe you did hear His voice but did not recognize Him, and so did not listen to Him.

I have never heard voice or voices for that matter.

Perhaps you did not recognize His voice because religion stepped in your way (as it does), and made you a disciple of it, using "Jesus" (the Hollywood icon it has created of the real person) to gain followers after itself?

Just another terrible excuse and one that certainly could not have stemmed from any godly knowledge.

The above was not an excuse; I was simply trying to help you consider reasons you may not have heard/listened to Christ. Of course, had I told you that you did not hear Him because you were instead listening to and following religion, you would have objected to that as well, yes?

If the god that created the universe spoke to me, there is no religion on the planet that could have caused me to not hear it. 'There's a god speaking to you, but religion got in the way' is rejected for being unsuported and illogical.

Again, people reject truth they do not want to hear all the time. See previous post on another thread I think ( viewtopic.php?p=1103287#p1103287 )for support on that.

Peace again to you.

Peace to you as well!

Thank you, and you as well!

[William]

[Replying to tam in post #304]

How has that question not been answered in the OP?

Re your referring to "Answered in the OP", if you would simply quote the OP where you believe it has answered the question, that would be helpful to the communication process between you and the reader. [me, and others]

Otherwise, my answer is "To my knowledge, no - it has not been answered in the OP."

What negative statements do you believe I have made about other Christians?

You have mentioned how religions are not "Following the Lords Voice" in comparing your own position as a positive to that negative.

Q: What makes you think that just because some folk have contradictory views, that the whole thing being viewed from these different perspectives, isn't Christ working with what is available to Christ, to work with?

Because Christ speaks and teaches what is true. He does not teach and speak contradictory things, wherein at least one of those things would then necessarily be false. Christ does not speak and teach falsehood. The language that He speaks is truth.

Q: What has been shown by you to being 'necessarily false' and 'contradictory' regarding Christs working with what is available for Christ to work with?

Q: "Contradicts Christ" according to whom? Your point of view or Christs?

His, of course.

Q: What contradicts Christ "according to him" that you message to us and how can we tell if it is him or you?

If someone said that the Father's house is filled with 'illusions of our own making', then that claim cannot be true. There is no deception in the Father's house. Christ is the One who promised to take us TO the Father's house, and He leads His sheep into all TRUTH.

Illusions on the other hand are connected with false ideas, misrepresentation, deception.

Not if YHVH is the one performing said illusions, which is the case re this creation we are experiencing. It is a Simulation [creation] and YHVH never claimed that it was real.
What was said is that YHVH created it and put us in it to experience as real.

Further to that, the pattern continues on into the next phase, which Christ went off to create - "mansions" for our beliefs to be nurtured within.
If you think that your beliefs will create a false illusion, then adjust your beliefs accordingly.
YHVH creates true illusions. Therefore, we can study the nature of this current simulated reality and from that, understand the truth of it.

Q: If you are referring to the bible, how can you know that the bible wasn't concocted by the very religion that you appear to condemn as willfully "not listening"?

We have had this conversation before as well. However, your question does not seem to make sense. Because if religion contradicts "the bible", then they contradict "the bible" - regardless of who "concocted" it.

Rather, it may be that the bible - re both Hebrew and Christian influences concocted the script through the initial misstep of conflating the two Creation stories and 'reality' with 'Creation'.

YHVH create the simulation, and we were placed within it. The placements occurred in different timelines - YHVH first created Humans to breed and subdue and then - much later - created Adam.

The conflation of those two events by the religions mentioned, meant that the bible stories which followed, are off the mark, confirmed therein by YHVH continually attempting to enlighten us to the Truth, working with what YHVH had then, to work with.

Re narrating and the voice of Christ you claim to hear;

Q: Will you give the reader an example of the type of conversation you have with this voice?
_____

[tam]

Peace again,

[Replying to tam in post #304]

How has that question not been answered in the OP?

Re your referring to "Answered in the OP", if you would simply quote the OP where you believe it has answered the question, that would be helpful to the communication process between you and the reader. [me, and others]

From this thread and in addition to the OP:

viewtopic.php?p=1075515#p1075515

What negative statements do you believe I have made about other Christians?

You have mentioned how religions are not "Following the Lords Voice" in comparing your own position as a positive to that negative.

Then at most I have made "negative statements" about religion. I think the 'negative statement' description is not quite right though, since those statements are not untrue (and so might simply be perceived as negative, depending upon how a person feels about religion).

Q: What makes you think that just because some folk have contradictory views, that the whole thing being viewed from these different perspectives, isn't Christ working with what is available to Christ, to work with?

Because Christ speaks and teaches what is true. He does not teach and speak contradictory things, wherein at least one of those things would then necessarily be false. Christ does not speak and teach falsehood. The language that He speaks is truth.

Q: What has been shown by you to being 'necessarily false' and 'contradictory' regarding Christs working with what is available for Christ to work with?

Asked and answered William.

Q: "Contradicts Christ" according to whom? Your point of view or Christs?

His, of course.

Q: What contradicts Christ "according to him" that you message to us and how can we tell if it is him or you?

A - I gave you an example.

B - (assuming you are asking 'how can we tell if it contradicts him or me'?), you can see that for yourself regarding what is written, or you can ask Him, yourself.

If someone said that the Father's house is filled with 'illusions of our own making', then that claim cannot be true. There is no deception in the Father's house. Christ is the One who promised to take us TO the Father's house, and He leads His sheep into all TRUTH.

Illusions on the other hand are connected with false ideas, misrepresentation, deception.

Not if...

I'm going to stop you right there, because we have had this conversation before, and I have supported what I said (in previous posts as well) with what Christ has said and what He has promised to do:

He is the One preparing the place for us in His Father's house... therefore... we are not the ones creating the rooms... therefore... there is nothing false in these rooms (or mansions as you prefer)... because Christ is preparing them, and Christ is the Truth and speaks only truth, and has promised to lead us into all truth. HE is also the perfect representation and image of His Father. If you want to know the Father, then you must (and need only) look to His Son.

Q: If you are referring to the bible, how can you know that the bible wasn't concocted by the very religion that you appear to condemn as willfully "not listening"?

We have had this conversation before as well. However, your question does not seem to make sense. Because if religion contradicts "the bible", then they contradict "the bible" - regardless of who "concocted" it.

Rather, it may be that the bible - re both Hebrew and Christian influences ...

I do not see how you response addresses the point.

As for the example you are asking for, I shared an instance in the OP. I have shared other instances as well.



Peace again to you.

[Clownboat]

I do not have any religious leaders, dear Clownboat.

He is a leader (the Leader, my Leader, King, Master, Lord). But He is not a part of religion; He did not create a religion; religion does not come from Him.

Jesus ( c. 4 BC – AD 30 or 33), also referred to as Jesus Christ or Jesus of Nazareth (among other names and titles), was a first-century Jewish preacher and religious leader. He is the central figure of Christianity, the world's largest religion.

What makes Jesus different from other religious leaders?
https://www.compellingtruth.org/Jesus-different.html

How is Jesus different from other religious leaders?
https://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-different.html

Faith and religion are not the same thing.

Actually, some Christians do refer to their religion as their faith, but it really matters not here as it is semantics.

You are the one reading more into my words than what I have said.

If only a Christ assisted with those words, or a spirit would have guided them or if they only relayed godly knowledge. Alas...

What you are doing here also makes no sense. Because I am a mother (good or bad) does that mean that my neighbor is a mother (good or bad)?

Nope, where did you pull that one from?

If I am a terrible server (waitress), does that mean all other servers are terrible

Nope.
It's one thing to think so lowly of yourself to claim to be undeserving, but why project that on to others by loving them like you love yourself which would mean they are also undeserving?

- and even if so, does that mean I do not treat them with respect, show them compassion, forgive them, ask forgiveness for them, give to them if in need, etc, etc?

Straw man. Such things of you have never been suggested.

The fact that I acknowledge that am a poor servant and undeserving

You are neither of these things though. This is just your religion/Christ/spirits talking and I already alluded to why religions and cults do this. It would be unkind IMO to project such things on to others. Let's face it, if you think you are undeserving, surely an atheist in your opinion must also be undeserving. I can't get behind such a thing anylonger myself.

does the EXACT opposite of what you imply... it helps me to understand and love others if/when they perform poorly at a task/role - because I know that I would want mercy and forgiveness to be shown to me for my poor service.

Mercy and forgiveness can be shown without thinking you are undeserving! We all make mistakes, once this is understood, undeserving is irrelevant. This is what I mean by being good for goodness sake. Just show mercy and forgiveness Tam. Don't add undeserving to it. That would seem unkind for humans that value other humans for being human..

I thank my dear Lord for reminding me of this just now.

"Be merciful and mercy will be shown you."

Romans 9:15
King James Version
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

"Forgive and you will be forgiven."

Ephesians 1:7
King James Version
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

"Judge not and you will not be judged."

Proverbs 31:9
9 Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy.

Gotta love the Bible!

You're being unkind IMO and justifying your behavior because of a Bible verse.

I'm sorry, but what behavior are you referring to here?

Treating others like they are undeserving, like you do yourself. Treat humans with respect (until it is lost).

The behavior that I described as an instance when my dear Lord reminded me what love does - when my coworker was so down, but I was tired and did not want to get involved? The love that my dear Lord reminded me of, that would offer help to someone in need? The love (as reminded me by my Lord) that helped that person, kept them from committing self-harm (their words).

I'm glad you did these things, but it does say a lot about yourself if you only did this because a Lord reminded you. These are things we should all do without a Lord reminding us. Perhaps you truly do need a Lord to tell you to do these things? What if you inherently knew you should help your coworker and the voice you heared was just internal, informing you of what you already knew you should be doing?

Is that the behavior that you are referring to?

Nope, I'm referring to the undeserving part.

Set free from religion, the cult that you keep referring to? I don't doubt that you are more loving being set free from that.

Thank you. It is sad that religion can cause kind people to be unkind.

But look at what you said:

You are more Christ-like having been set free from your religious beliefs. How can you say that unless you actually DO know that Christ and religion are not the same thing?

Christ and religion are not identical if that is what you mean, but no one here has argued that they are, so I don't understand your point.

You made that leap, but the negative inferences you have drawn from it have been corrected.

Let's test this shall we?
You say you are undeserving. Tam, is your neighbor undeserving as well?

What is it that you think you are arguing against?

That you are undeserving as you claimed.

The above was not an excuse; I was simply trying to help you consider reasons you may not have heard/listened to Christ.

Christ has never said anything for me to listen to. That is the truth. That you hear a voice is on you. Why you are so cavalier about projecting that on to others? Are you trying to make it seem normal?

Of course, had I told you that you did not hear Him because you were instead listening to and following religion, you would have objected to that as well, yes?

If a voice is spoken, following a religion is not a valid mechanism for preventing from hearing said voice. You could claim rejecting a voice due to having a religious belief, but it is silly to think that religions can stop a voice from being heard.

[William]

[Replying to tam in post #306]

Q: Would I be correct in thinking that you have an internal dialogue with the voice you speak of?

Re your referring to "Answered in the OP", if you would simply quote the OP where you believe it has answered the question, that would be helpful to the communication process between you and the reader. [me, and others]

From this thread and in addition to the OP:

viewtopic.php?p=1075515#p1075515

In addition to what, "in the OP" - you do not say;
As to the link you provided.

Words are not necessarily sounds (or at least not audible sounds heard with physical ears). We can think in words, and words can be written <- neither of those make physically audible sounds. Words spoken from the Spirit (from Christ), are - in my experience - heard within, with spiritual ears. Still a voice - but not one heard with PHYSICAL ears.

So yes - I am correct in thinking that you have an internal dialogue with the voice you speak of.

Q: Why did you not just write "Yes! You are correct in thinking that, William!"?

What negative statements do you believe I have made about other Christians?

You have mentioned how religions are not "Following the Lords Voice" in comparing your own position as a positive to that negative.

Then at most I have made "negative statements" about religion.

So then, you are making negative statements about people who call themselves Christians but are religious.

I think the 'negative statement' description is not quite right though, since those statements are not untrue (and so might simply be perceived as negative, depending upon how a person feels about religion).

My point is that you negate their position by comparing those positions with your own and declaring your position the positive one - something which you have yet to prove through the spirit being tested.

Q: What has been shown by you to being 'necessarily false' and 'contradictory' regarding Christs working with what is available for Christ to work with?

Asked and answered William.

Show us where you answered this, Tam. One cannot simply take your word for it, because that is not how the spirits are tested.

Q: "Contradicts Christ" according to whom? Your point of view or Christs?
His, of course.
Q: What contradicts Christ "according to him" that you message to us and how can we tell if it is him or you?

A - I gave you an example.

The example was shown to be faulty Tam.

B - (assuming you are asking 'how can we tell if it contradicts him or me'?), you can see that for yourself regarding what is written, or you can ask Him, yourself.

Christ informs me that I am required to ask YHVH Tam. I have done so, and given my report back to this thread.

If someone said that the Father's house is filled with 'illusions of our own making', then that claim cannot be true. There is no deception in the Father's house. Christ is the One who promised to take us TO the Father's house, and He leads His sheep into all TRUTH.

Illusions on the other hand are connected with false ideas, misrepresentation, deception.

Not if...

I'm going to stop you right there,

You can place your hands over your ears and make noises to drown out what YHVH informs me Tam. I am obliged to give the message anyway - for the readers sake, if not your own.

So I repeat the rest of the message that you cut out.

Message Repeated:

Not if YHVH is the one performing said illusions, which is the case re this creation we are experiencing. It is a Simulation [creation] and YHVH never claimed that it was real.
What was said is that YHVH created it and put us in it to experience as real.

Further to that, the pattern continues on into the next phase, which Christ went off to create - "mansions" for our beliefs to be nurtured within.
If you think that your beliefs will create a false illusion, then adjust your beliefs accordingly.
YHVH creates true illusions. Therefore, we can study the nature of this current simulated reality and from that, understand the truth of it.

Now - I do not think it is Christlike of you to cut YHVH off like that, and claim that Christ does not agree with YHVH that this Universe is a Simulated thing which YHVH created in order to place us into it to experience it as a real thing to experience.
It is part of the process of testing the spirits Tam -

By your denial of Christ in the role of bridging a connection between the individual personality and YHVH, so as to be able to hear the Voice of YHVH, this 'voice of Christ' you claim to hear and obey and follow, is presently suspect/under question.

Christ is the One preparing the place for us in His Father's house... therefore... we are not the ones creating the rooms... therefore... there is nothing false in these rooms

You are forgetting who the rooms are being created for Tam. Those "In Christ" - therefore those who have been brought to YHVH through Christ and who know this to being the mission of Christ to bring the personality before YHVH and to introduce YHVH to the personality and the personality to YHVH.
Those In Christ understand this process and also adjust their believes to suit the new knowledge obtained therein.
That is why I wrote;
"If one thinks that ones beliefs will create a false illusion, then adjust one's beliefs accordingly."

(or mansions as you prefer)... because Christ is preparing them, and Christ is the Truth and speaks only truth, and has promised to lead us into all truth. HE is also the perfect representation and image of His Father. If you want to know the Father, then you must (and need only) look to His Son.

I am speaking specifically to roles Tam. The Son has a different role to The Father, as clearly Christ spoke about as biblically recorded.

If you want to know the role of YHVH, you will not be able to decern it simply by observing the role of Christ. Christ is the doorway to YHVH - not the whole building of YHVH.

The two are not the same thing and one's focus has to shift to The Building, rather than swooning around the doorway.

Rather, it may be that the bible - re both Hebrew and Christian influences ...

I do not see how you response addresses the point.

Perhaps if you lose the tatic of mine quoting out of context and actually responded to the whole of what I wrote instead of cutting it out - you will see clearly how my response adresses the point.

What I wrote;

Rather, it may be that the bible - re both Hebrew and Christian influences concocted the script through the initial misstep of conflating the two Creation stories and 'reality' with 'Creation'.

YHVH create the simulation, and we were placed within it. The placements occurred in different timelines - YHVH first created Humans to breed and subdue and then - much later - created Adam.

The conflation of those two events by the religions mentioned, meant that the bible stories which followed, are off the mark, confirmed therein by YHVH continually attempting to enlighten us to the Truth, working with what YHVH had then, to work with.

__________________

As for the example you are asking for, I shared an instance in the OP

Once again you are asked to provide the quote from the OP as part of supporting the statement you make about things "already said in the OP".

Re narrating and the voice of Christ you claim to hear;

Q: Will you give the reader an example of the type of conversation you have with this voice?

[William]

[Replying to Clownboat in post #307]

Mercy and forgiveness can be shown without thinking you are undeserving! We all make mistakes, once this is understood, undeserving is irrelevant. This is what I mean by being good for goodness sake. Just show mercy and forgiveness Tam. Don't add undeserving to it. That would seem unkind for humans that value other humans for being human..

If I understand you correctly here Clownboat, you are saying that one does not need to think of ones self in this negative way because;

1: It has not been proven true.
2: It can act as a means by which one judges others through projecting one's sense of unworthiness onto everyone else as a matter of 'fact' [assumed rather than proven].

[Clownboat]

[Replying to Clownboat in post #307]

Mercy and forgiveness can be shown without thinking you are undeserving! We all make mistakes, once this is understood, undeserving is irrelevant. This is what I mean by being good for goodness sake. Just show mercy and forgiveness Tam. Don't add undeserving to it. That would seem unkind for humans that value other humans for being human..

If I understand you correctly here Clownboat, you are saying that one does not need to think of ones self in this negative way because;

1: It has not been proven true.
2: It can act as a means by which one judges others through projecting one's sense of unworthiness onto everyone else as a matter of 'fact' [assumed rather than proven].

That would seem to be a pretty accurate analysis, without being all encompassing of course. I have more to say about the purpose/mechanism of self-loathing for example.

A person must first believe they are sick, before they will take the medicine.
A person must first believe they are an undeserving sinner before they will take the medicine that is the sacrifice of their shepherd Christ.

I examine myself and my neighbors, and I do not see either as undeserving. When I see others thinking they are undeserving, I wish I could cure it. Once a person is on the medicine though, they can't just pretend to not be sick anymore as being sick (undeserving) is the prerequisite. This is terribly hard to be set free from, on this I have first hand experience.

I believe that societies would improve if we build each other up (yes, we can acknowledge faults still) in place of attempting to tear each other down. "You are a sinner that deserves hell", for example is not something to build a society upon. This is something men of old were saddled with and we should now do without the division such beliefs cause.