Does Christ speak and how?

[tam]

May you have peace!

A question that continues to be posed to me is with regard to my bearing witness to a living and speaking Christ. How does He speak? What does that mean? How can we test that?

I imagine that one reason the questions are continually posed to me is because I cannot provide the proof that some are asking me to provide. I can only provide evidence in the form of:

a) Personal testimony from having heard Christ
b) The written testimony of or about others who have heard Christ
c) What Christ Himself is written to have said on the matter


If none of the above are acceptable to someone, then I am not sure what more that person and I would have to talk about on this particular matter. We could hopefully discuss respectfully from a point of love, reason, logic. For those who are interested...


Christ said that His sheep would hear His voice.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me." John 10:27

"I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me, even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. "I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.…" John 10:14-16



Written testimony about/from others who heard His voice, confirming the truth of what He said:

The Spirit told Philip, "Go to that chariot and stay near it." Acts 8:29

**
In Damascus, there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, "Ananias!"

"Yes Lord," he answered.

The Lord told him, "Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight." (Acts 9:10,11... and it continues)

**
There is Peter's vision telling him that he should eat foods that he considered unclean, and then after his vision:

While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit (Christ) said to him, "Simon, three men are looking for you. So get up and go downstairs. Do not hesitate to go with them, for I have sent them." (Acts 10: 9-20)

**
There are of course multiple examples from Paul. The entire book of Revelation is from Christ to John. There is a warning against hardening our hearts if we hear His voice.

As has just been said: "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion." Hebrews 3:15

Then of course there are the examples of Abraham, who heard, Noah, who heard, the prophets, who heard, Joseph, who heard, Daniel, who heard, etc, etc. Their faith is based upon the evidence of what they heard.



My own personal testimony


I did not always know that Christ spoke, and I did not always recognize that voice within me as being His. But someone else bore witness to a living speaking Christ, and it bothered me, lol. I had just ended a two year bible study with a certain denomination, and I did not want to get misled by man ever gain. But here was this person claiming that Christ spoke. If I believed this person, that they were from God, then what was wrong with me that I allowed myself to get misled yet again. On the other hand, what was wrong with me if this person did hear Christ, and I rejected them?

But soon into my dilemma (and my asking how I might know, even though I thought I was just asking myself) I heard:

Test WHAT this person is saying. Test the message. Do not pay attention to the person. Test to see if what this person is saying is true, or not. Then you will know who this person is from.


I still did not know this was Christ speaking to me. I just thought, "Oh, of course... that is what I will do."

So that is what I did. Along the way, I saw all these verses and examples and testimony that Christ does indeed speak, that God spoke also, though now speaks through Christ. In dreams, in visions, in direct words, in reminders, in opening eyes and ears to a truth that one might read, see, or hear. Once I realized that Christ is supposed to speak, I asked for ears to hear as well. Even though I did hear Him; I just did not know I heard Him. I needed to learn His voice and recognize Him.

**

I was asked how does He speak

He speaks in words. He speaks in visions (I have never had a vision that I am aware of). He speaks in dreams. He can also bring to mind something learned, read, or experienced in the past to help me see the truth in something He is teaching me. He has opened my eyes to something that is written, if I am reading the bible. He can and has read to me something that He is written to have said, so that I hear it in His voice. That was enlightening.

Sometimes when I am responding to something that someone else has asked, He will give me the words to say, or reveal something to me (as in open my heart and ears to understanding something) that I had not previously understood.


The language that He speaks is truth. He has never spoken anything to me that was not true, and that was not from love. And everything He teaches me deepens my understanding of love: His love and the love of His Father.



(As for testing the inspired expression... anything that is in conflict with what Christ teaches cannot be true. Also Christ (truth) comes from love (God), so nothing that He says will be in conflict with love. Especially since the law that is written upon our hearts in the new covenant is the law of love.)


**

I do not expect anyone to take my word for these things. I do not take the word of others for what they claim came from Christ. I explained above what I did, what I heard from Christ TO do.

If I have shared anything that helps anyone, then great. If not, then no problem. I am not the one people should be listening to if they are following or desiring to follow Christ... I can only point TO that One: Christ Jaheshua, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, the Chosen One of Jah. Christ, who is Himself, the faithful and true witness of His Father, Jah.



If one wants to know the truth of this matter themselves... then ask Christ. That is how one can confirm for themselves. Ask for ears to hear, and in the meantime DO what He has said to do, so that you prove yourself to Him. He does not have to prove Himself to us.

"If anyone loves me, they will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come and make our home with (in) them."


(Please note that He says that they will obey HIS teaching. Not man's teaching. Not religion or religious leaders, not Paul, not the law, or anyone or anything else over Him. If we love HIM... we will obey HIM. If we love someone or something else more, then we will listen to and obey that one/thing. Including if we love our religion more than Him, although we might not realize it at the time. Including if we think the bible is the Word of God, especially when even that book states that Christ is the Word of God; and Christ himself said, "You diligently search the scriptures because you think that by them you have eternal life. These are the scriptures that testify about ME, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.")



May anyone who wishes them be given ears to hear, to get a sense of these things, and to hear as the Spirit (Christ) and the bride SAY to you, "Come... take the free gift of the water of life."


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 10 by tam]

I am not part of religion at all NOW, even though my faith is in Christ and God. Although some people (mistakenly) object to this being possible, I think you may be able to understand how one can have faith, but not religion.

Sure, all we have to do is pretend that a certain kind of Christianity isn't a religion, but that other kinds are.

You use words in weird ways. Most people would call you a Christian. You might not go to a CHURCH and follow a congregation, but you surely are a Christian by how people usually use the word. You pretend otherwise, and you have a very personal kind of language when it comes to your religious beliefs.

And you DO have religious beliefs.
You "are" a deeply religious person. You just use the word differently than most English speakers.

In normal English, a Christian is someone who follows Christ. And there is a religion CALLED Christianity, in which the adherents follow Christ, whatever they think this Christ is, or HOW they happen to think they should follow.

People who use a COMMON understanding of the word "religion" usually say that Christianity IS one.

This is my understanding as I have learned from Him. Christ speaks to everyone (and with few exceptions, it is Christ speaking today, as the Word of God, the One God gave us to listen TO, and the mediator between man and God).

HOW did you from this god?
How did you HEAR this god?

Please demonstrate to us that you aren't just imagining hearing voices in your head.

SOME people who hear voices in their heads sometimes are suffering from mental disorders.

I do not know when this started, but we are not called sheep because we blindly follow others opinions and directions. We are supposed to think, to ask, to reason, to test what we hear, from men and from spirits. How else are we to watch out for those who would mislead us? False prophets? False christs?

How would we know if we met a false Christ? It would be very easy for a supernatural being to deceive a mere mortal with magic and lies.

As far as I know, humans don't KNOW as much as gods or demons.. or can do as much god magic, or demon magic to make illusions appear true.

Real sheep don't think, they just follow the shepherd. I don't think sheep are the most intelligent mammal I can think of.

But as long as we pretend that sheep can think critically, then yes, being a sheep means critical thinking.

You use the word "sheep" in a bizarre way that has very little to do with real sheep. Most people usually call people "sheep" when they blindly and uncritically follow a leader without thought. It's an insult to call someone a "sheep" in English.. at least in common English, and not 'tam English'.

The sheep and the shepherd analogy is as much for the Shepherd as the sheep. There are bad shepherds, and there is the Good Shepherd. Who takes care of His sheep. Who leads them to water (of Life).

And the sheep just follow without thinking the bad or the good shepherd. They don't have a clue, they just follow. I know, I tended sheep and cows when I was a boy. Neither were spectacularly discerning. The analogy might describe the shepherd, but it also describes the followers, or the quite DUMB animals.

Those who compare themselves to SHEEP are comparing themselves with very dumb animals who can't think critically at all. It's food, shelter and safety ( for a while ).. and that's pretty much IT. Sheep don't even PRAY.. but they do have MASTERS who own them and tell them what to do. And the sheep just do it.

Then there are a lot of so-called shepherds out there who fleece ($) the flock, lie and (verbally) beat them, who load them up with heavy burdens, and who are actually wolves in sheep's clothing.

The idea is that sheep are usually fleeced by all shepherds, good or bad. That's why shepherds tend to sheep, and the shepherds also kill the sheep, and eat them. Yum yum.

The sheep have nothing much to say about what happens to them. That's what the analogy means if they compare people to sheep. No free will.. just obey he master.. like a slave. No discerning. Baaa baa baa. Have you ever STUDIED the behavior of sheep? I have.

Sheep can't discern. Once someone takes the role of a sheep, or a slave, then they give up their free will.. and are like beasts to be slaughtered. Property.

(The bush was not burning itself, mind you, the seraph (angel) in the bush that was speaking to Moses had the appearance of burning, though not the heat that would accompany an actual fire or the bush would have been consumed and it was not.)

You offer opinion and your personal interpretation as if it were fact.

You sought truth in Christianity and the NT. With respect (and there is no need to answer me), I would ask if you thought to seek truth in Christ alone; first and foremost? Because Christianity and Christ are not the same things, and the religion does not get its authority from Christ, despite what some religions and men teach.

How do you get truth out of "Christ"? You offer no way for us to verify that you aren't just pretending to have heard "Christ". We need to have some evidence that what you claim is true, tam.

Do you have any evidence that the voices that you say you "hear" in your head are really from a god?

You may pretend that it has nothing to do with the religion that brought you Christ and the Bible, and all of the Protestant theology you seem to believe in, but we aren't pretending along with you. The Bible and all of the stories, including the ones about the Christ you believe in and the religion that form most of your personal brand of theology ( what the "men teach" ) predate your ideas about it all.. and your "voices".

It's as if you are saying that "men" never "taught" anything about the "Christ" you believe in. But they did. For centuries. And you accept a kind of Protestant version of the teachings. You cherry pick what you want to believe in, and you probably don't follow a church's or denomination's teachings, but you certainly do conform to many Protestant beliefs. You may not call it that, but it's plain to other people.

Men invented Protestantism, along with a lot of theology that you believe in.

You seem to use the word "religion" in a very personal way too, tam. You use lots of words differently than most English people do.

So far, I can see that you don't use slavery the same way that most people use the term, nor sheep, nor religion. I always have to wonder what you MEAN by the seemingly English words that you use. It's never very common usage at all.

Christ called and led me away from religion.

HOW did Christ "call" you, was it a voice in your head? Can you give us some way to tell if you weren't just making things up in your head?

Perhaps you might consider that God (or Christ) could indeed have been telling you NOT to look at Christianity for truth, and not to look at what is written for truth... because the One you are supposed to look at (or listen to) is Christ, Himself. First and foremost.

Perhaps he could consider that the beliefs of Christianity don't make any sense, and that listening to voices in his head wont change that.

HOW would have God or Christ told him anything?
Voices in his head?
His imagination?

What you describe is some kind of weird voices happening in someone's head. This can be because they might be:

1) Mistaken
2) Delusional
3) Lying ( to themselves, perhaps, or to others, or both )
4) Frivolous (yes some people just love to have fun with religions beliefs)

Seeing Jesus BEYOND the written word and to seek the spirit also..

How do you see Jesus BEYOND the written word.. and HOW do you find this spirit, too? How is that different from using your imagination and then believing that what is imagined is real?

Most kids go through a phase when they have trouble telling the difference between their imagination and reality. Sometimes, kids make up fantasy friends .. imaginary friends, they are called. I know, I had some when I was a kid. This is perfectly normal.

Most people tend to grow OUT of that phase, and understand that just because they can IMAGINE something, it isn't necessarily REAL.

People who honestly can't tell the difference between fantasy and reality have a PROBLEM.

Not some two dimensional character from religion or from a book.. but the Living Christ Himself. The Living Word of God.

Everybody knows that the Jesus character comes to us from a book.

How do you know that you know or hear the "Living Word of God"?
How is that different than making it up in your imagination?

The freedom and truth in that, in Him, is beautiful. It is a beautiful thing to hear His voice, to hear Him speaking to you.

HOW do you hear his voice? Can you offer us a method for verifying that you are listening to some external voice and NOT something that we normally call.. the imagination?

You hear voices in your head and we are supposed to think you aren't indulging a fantasy?

How can you tell that you aren't just making it up? Can you show us how the voices AREN'T just your imagination going overtime?

[dio9]

Christ speaks to each of us within the silence of our own minds.

[Blastcat]

Christ speaks to each of us within the silence of our own minds.

Lovely poetry, what does it mean?

[ttruscott]

Peace to you all. I am going to try to get to everyone's comments, but it may not be in order, and I did need to address this one first. (so obviously it won't be in order, lol)

May you have peace!
...

The language that He speaks is truth.

...

While I agree on the whole with this post this line gives me pause when I recall that the serpent used the truth to get Eve to sin...

Used some truth (remember that the Adversary continues to transform himself into an angel of light), to get them to buy into the lie.

That they could eat of that tree, and be like God... and yet live. (not die)

IF Romans 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. applies to them as children of GOD then their fall was one of the many things working for their good, not the great disaster of all history as orthodoxy insists. Yes they sinned but it was the straw that broke the camel's back so to speak and they could not pretend any longer they were blameless and unashamed.

Gen 3:4 “You will not certainly die,� the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.�

I expect to meet Adam and Eve after the resurrection and shake their hand. They are not dead. Did they have their eyes opened to their sinfulness so they could repent, the greatest blessing bestowed upon HIS sinful elect? Yes they did.

[Zzyzx]

.

Christ speaks to each of us within the silence of our own minds.

Moderator Comment

Perhaps being new you do not realize that this post violates two Forum Rules and Guidelines -- one prohibiting one-line posts that contribute nothing to debate and one prohibiting preaching

Please review the Rules.


______________

Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

[tam]

This was from another thread, but so as to maintain the forum rules and also to keep from utterly derailing that thread, I brought it over here, and hope that is acceptable.

How do I hear it for myself? That is the question. Can you show me how I can hear the voice of Christ?

Get me to do this and I'm getting my butt back in that church pew pronto.

all the best

Peace to you Ken. Before I share what I understand from your question, please know that I would never suggest that you should go back to a church pew. Nor will you find me in one. Religion is in conflict with Christ. All religions speak some truth, so as to mislead those seeking truth, but all also speak lies. Christ speaks only truth. He is quiet. You have to listen. He invites you to come to Him and take the free gift of the water of Life (which water is holy spirit). Religion speaks with the voice of the boisterous woman. She is loud, calling you to come to her instead. She tries very hard to drown out the voice of Christ, and too often succeeds.


I digress...

***


How do you hear Christ, Himself?

First, ask.

"No one comes to me unless the Father draws them."

If you truly want to come to Christ, then ask for that. If you truly want ears to hear, then ask that you be given them. That you may hear Christ.

Asking would demonstrate at least some faith. (Unless you are not asking sincerely, such as if you are asking with the desire to prove him false, or to be able to say 'see... I asked, nothing happened, told you so'.)


Second, obey and listen to Christ.

If anyone loves me, they will obey my commands. My Father will love them and we will come and make our home with them.


Follow His commands. Keep His word/teachings. The promise is that THEN they will come to you and make their home with(in) you, by means of holy spirit.

You might want to consider tearing everything down that you think you know about God and Truth (that you probably learned from men, from religion), and then build solely upon Christ. God did not tell us to listen to men. God did not tell us to listen to religion. God told us,

"This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to Him."



Third, learn to speak and hear His language. Because He speaks the language of Truth.

Man is familiar with and too often prefers the lies that he tells himself, or that this world and others tell him. Christ will tell you the truth.




These are the things that I did, but I am also well aware (now) that unless my Father had drawn me to His Son, I could not have come to Him. I did not do it on my own. So if you want that, then ask. Keep asking, keep knocking, keep seeking. The promise is that the door will be opened.

Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 16 by tam]

Okay, this is something I just have to respond to.

If you truly want to come to Christ, then ask for that. If you truly want ears to hear, then ask that you be given them. That you may hear Christ.

What I want, as a skeptical unbeliever, is to know the truth. I do not and in fact cannot want to come to Christ, since at this moment in time, I am not convinced there is a Christ. There's all sorts of people in the real world I want to come to, to meet and talk to, but that is because I acknowledge and am convinced that they are real. There are also some fictional characters I would like to meet, but in all seriousness not really want to, since I am not convinced they are real.

Asking would demonstrate at least some faith. (Unless you are not asking sincerely, such as if you are asking with the desire to prove him false, or to be able to say 'see... I asked, nothing happened, told you so'.)

You're probably thinking of me here, and our interactions, especially my sheet of paper challenge. Nope, I have no desire to prove 'him' false. Rather, I have a desire to know the truth, and most importantly an expectation that people like yourself who claim to hear a god or gods will fail at my challenge. An expectation is different to a desire. You do know the difference, I hope?

The promise is that THEN they will come to you and make their home with(in) you, by means of holy spirit.

In the past, I and plenty of others have asked you to use plain language. I have no idea what it means to 'make their home within'. My interpretation of what it is you say, (which you could correct if I'm on the wrong path) is that I have to obey the teachings first, then Christ will reveal himself.
Thing is, this is an impossible task. I cannot obey teachings such as to worship or obey Christ or to love God etc before I'm convinced of their existence!
This promise also completely ignores (and is shown to be false) by those believers and followers of Christ who grew up and lived their lives obeying Christ, following his teachings...only to later on become unbelievers, such as myself. If one is really and truthfully filled with the holy spirit, how could we ever doubt it?

You might want to consider tearing everything down that you think you know about God and Truth (that you probably learned from men, from religion), and then build solely upon Christ.

The problem here of course is that where do we get our information from then? What are Christ's teachings, that one is to obey before Christ and/or Holy Spirit will show themselves? Where are we to look? I remember you quoting the Bible several times. Also, if one is to throw out everything they learned about God...where did you get your information about Christ/God in the first place?

God did not tell us to listen to men.

Would this include you, by any chance (I know, you're a woman). This entire comment from you ought to be thrown out and ignored, according to this line.

Third, learn to speak and hear His language. Because He speaks the language of Truth.

Man is familiar with and too often prefers the lies that he tells himself, or that this world and others tell him. Christ will tell you the truth.

Is the language of Truth Hebrew? Aramaic? Greek? Latin? English? This again is another of those complaints I have with you, where you say things that are simply indecipherable.

These are the things that I did, but I am also well aware (now) that unless my Father had drawn me to His Son, I could not have come to Him. I did not do it on my own. So if you want that, then ask. Keep asking, keep knocking, keep seeking. The promise is that the door will be opened.

How long should one seek and knock and ask, before one has to give it up as an exercise in futility? I've told you this before, I've prayed and asked and seeked and knocked numerous times since I became a nonbeliever. So far, this promise of a door opening has not happened. I'm in my late 20's now, I've not believed since I was 12 years old. How many more years should I keep asking for Christ in particular? Should I go about asking for other gods or prophets or messiahs? Should I spend a decade asking for Muhammed? Should I spend twenty years seeking nirvana?

[H.sapiens]

deleted

[tam]

If you truly want to come to Christ, then ask for that. If you truly want ears to hear, then ask that you be given them. That you may hear Christ.

What I want, as a skeptical unbeliever, is to know the truth. I do not and in fact cannot want to come to Christ, since at this moment in time, I am not convinced there is a Christ. There's all sorts of people in the real world I want to come to, to meet and talk to, but that is because I acknowledge and am convinced that they are real. There are also some fictional characters I would like to meet, but in all seriousness not really want to, since I am not convinced they are real.

Then why are you responding to this particular discussion?

Please note the opening words:

If you truly want...


If you don't truly want, then how can what follows the words, 'if you truly want', apply to you?



Peace to you dear Rik,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Clownboat]

If you truly want to come to Christ, then ask for that. If you truly want ears to hear, then ask that you be given them. That you may hear Christ.

What I want, as a skeptical unbeliever, is to know the truth. I do not and in fact cannot want to come to Christ, since at this moment in time, I am not convinced there is a Christ. There's all sorts of people in the real world I want to come to, to meet and talk to, but that is because I acknowledge and am convinced that they are real. There are also some fictional characters I would like to meet, but in all seriousness not really want to, since I am not convinced they are real.

Then why are you responding to this particular discussion?

Please note the opening words:

If you truly want...


If you don't truly want, then how can what follows the words, 'if you truly want', apply to you?



Peace to you dear Rik,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Tam,
A person could truly want to believe in Santa, but until the Santa concept is shown to be real, it would be foolish to truly want to believe in a concept that might be false to begin with.

Every god concept is possible.
Big Foot is possible.
Loch Ness (Nelly) is possible.
Should we believe in any of these concepts, or would it be prudent to first learn if they are real or not?

I would want to learn first. You on the other hand seem OK with just picking concepts to decide to believe in without first doing your due diligence (is the thing real?). Keep in mind, humans can even convince themselves that they love a person that has kidnapped them. We have an amazing ability as humans to convince ourselves.

The fact is, you are convinced that your specific god concept is true. Will you be intellectually honest and now believe in alien visits or Big Foot because others have chosen to believe that they are truly real? I assume you will not believe in alien visits or Big Foot until you are fist shown that they are real to begin with.

I truly believe that if you lived in Iran and you asked Allah to give you ears to hear, you would be claiming to speak to Mohammed right now.

Notice how even if I truly wanted to believe that this above was true, that it doesn't/wouldn't affect whether it really is true or not.

Therefore, truly wanting to believe does not make a concept true. Having a desire for something to be true does not affect the thing in question being true or not. Even if this thing is one of the many available god concepts.