Why don't you believe in Santa Claus?

Getting to know more about a specific belief

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analysisfaith
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Why don't you believe in Santa Claus?

Post #1

Post by analysisfaith »

Hi, I'm new to the forum, so this is my first thread. None of us believe in Santa, right? But have you ever stopped to think about why? In this thread I intend to play the role of an apologist for Santa Claus, that is, I will examine the reasons why individuals deny the existence of Santa Claus and attempt to expose flaws in their reasoning, and argue for his existence for illustrative purposes. The purpose of this thread is to better understand how we form our beliefs, and in general, how well we analyze them. So why do you disbelieve in the existence of Santa?

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Re: Why don't you believe in Santa Claus?

Post #2

Post by benchwarmer »

[Replying to post 1 by analysisfaith]

:) This sounds like fun, so I will join in. Oh, and welcome analysisfaith! I'm pretty new here too.

First, I want to state that I don't know if Santa exists or not, but I have no evidence to believe that he does and I have some personal experience that points to the fact that he probably doesn't.

When I was young I believed the stories of Santa delivering gifts on Christmas. Then, as I got older, I discovered one year (being a very bad little kid) that what I had asked for from Santa was hiding in my parents closet. On Christmas morning, there it was, from Santa. So obviously Santa didn't arrive on my rooftop with reindeer and deliver this gift, my parents pulled it out of their closet, wrapped it, and put a "from Santa" tag on it.

I also started to notice that all the 'store Santas' were obviously not the 'real' Santa since they looked different and sometimes there were multiple of them.

The story further fell apart when I discovered other kids were having the same observations.

If Santa is real, I've never seen him or received any presents from him. Maybe I'm just on the naughty list :)

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Re: Why don't you believe in Santa Claus?

Post #3

Post by analysisfaith »

benchwarmer wrote: [Replying to post 1 by analysisfaith]

:) This sounds like fun, so I will join in. Oh, and welcome analysisfaith! I'm pretty new here too.

First, I want to state that I don't know if Santa exists or not, but I have no evidence to believe that he does and I have some personal experience that points to the fact that he probably doesn't.

When I was young I believed the stories of Santa delivering gifts on Christmas. Then, as I got older, I discovered one year (being a very bad little kid) that what I had asked for from Santa was hiding in my parents closet. On Christmas morning, there it was, from Santa. So obviously Santa didn't arrive on my rooftop with reindeer and deliver this gift, my parents pulled it out of their closet, wrapped it, and put a "from Santa" tag on it.

I also started to notice that all the 'store Santas' were obviously not the 'real' Santa since they looked different and sometimes there were multiple of them.

The story further fell apart when I discovered other kids were having the same observations.

If Santa is real, I've never seen him or received any presents from him. Maybe I'm just on the naughty list :)
It's certainly possible you're on his naughty list, but it's also possible that the present you saw in your closet that happened to show up under the tree on Christmas morning was coincidentally the same present as Santa decided to give you. So, your parents were going to give you the present, and they hid it in the closet, but then, upon observing that Santa Claus had the same plan, they decided to return it to the store rather than waste their money, and let Santa take care of it. Also, since Santa is an omni-present being, it would be no surprise that he gave you the same presents that your parents gave you. He heard you tell your parents what you wanted, and he decided to help them out a little. Of course, even if these presents were from your parents, you haven't disproven the existence of Santa. Maybe your parents just felt bad for you, since they knew that Santa wouldn't bother giving you any presents since you were on the wrong list.

With regard to the "store Santas," there are a couple of possibilities. It is possible that, since Santa Claus is a being much different from the rest of us, that he is able to take on different forms and different times, just to demonstrate his strange abilities. Of course this may not be the case, but even if the store Santas were imposters, that doesn't mean the real Santa doesn't exist.

Anyway, that's my take on it. Hopefully everyone understands this is all in good fun, but it's also intended to serve as an illustration of the problems of unfalsifiable beliefs.

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Re: Why don't you believe in Santa Claus?

Post #4

Post by Divine Insight »

analysisfaith wrote: The purpose of this thread is to better understand how we form our beliefs, and in general, how well we analyze them. So why do you disbelieve in the existence of Santa?
I disbelieve in Santa Claus because Santa Claus would need to be able to perform supernatural miracles. However, if it is claimed that Santa Claus can perform supernatural miracles then my objections to him would not be valid.

However, if this is supposed to be a comparison with other beliefs I have in general then it fails. For example, I don't disbelieve in the Biblical God for the same reasons that I disbelieve in Santa Claus. I will grant the Biblical God the ability to perform supernatural miracles. However this doesn't help his case one iota. I would still need to reject him on the grounds that he is a self-contradictory character. He's supposed to be ultimately righteous, moral, loving, intelligent, benevolent and trustworthy. But his historical behavior (according to the history written about him in the Bible) has him behaving in ways that are unrighteous, immoral, unloving, unintelligent, malevolent and untrustworthy.

So he's a self-contradictory character. Having the ability to perform supernatural miracles wouldn't help him one bit.

So, based on your proposed analysis here, I would have to say that I give Santa Claus far more likelihood of being true then something like the Biblical God. :D

Thanks for the opportunity to analyze this, although in truth, I've already done this many times over in the past. So yes, my reasons for disbelieving in the Biblical God go far beyond my reasons for disbelieving in Santa Claus.

At least Santa Claus doesn't have a self-contradictory personality. ;)

If he can perform his supernatural miracles then there's no reason why he couldn't exist.

Not true for the Biblical God.
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Post #5

Post by OnceConvinced »

I don't believe in Santa Claus for many reasons, but let me tell you my testimony.

I was indoctrinated to believe in Santa from birth. My parents taught me that Santa was real and they taught it as fact. There was no questioning that. When Santa came on Christmas Eve and left me gifts, I praised Santa. He was so good to me. Even when I misbehaved he still brought a heap of toys and lollies to me each Christmas Eve while I slept.

But then one day I began to realise something. Santa always bought the most expensive gifts to the rich kids, while, me, being part of a relatively poor family, only got cheap things. Why was this? Why was Santa treating the rich kids better than me?

Other questions began to come up. Questions I just dared not ask before, because people told me just to have faith in Santa.

Just how did he get into our house? How could a fat guy like that get down our chimney? And what about those houses that didn't have chimneys? And how could reindeer fly when there has never been any known examples of deer flying. And how can he get around to all the houses in the world where Christmas is celebrated in such a short time. The physics alone show it as impossible. How does he fit it all on his sleigh? How do the reindeer manage to lug so much around? And an even bigger question... why did he skip many other parts of the world simply because the people in them didn't celebrate Christmas? Why should it matter if they don't celebrate it? Surely the children were just as worthy to receive stockings full of gifts. Was Santa racist?

Then one day he just stopped coming to my house. I was about 15 and he stopped, never to ever set foot in my place again. Why Santa? Why oh why when you did so much for me for so many years? Why did you stop? No matter how hard I prayed to Santa I got no reply on this. He wasn't answering me and he never even delivered me so much as a lump of bloody coal!

Up until then I had only surrounded myself with fellow believers - other people who believed in Santa, but then I started to mix more with other people. I started to come across more and more evil Santa haters. People who didn't believe in Santa and they were telling me that Santa died hundreds of years ago and it was my parents who brought me those gifts all those years! I didn't want to believe that at first, but once they began to explain all these things about how Santa couldn't possibly do the things he was accredited with doing I realised they were right.

I fought and fought against my disbelief! I cried out to Santa. I begged and begged him to reveal himself to me to be real. But I got nothing. Not a word. Santa made absolutely no effort to contact me and assure me that he was indeed real. I spent several years going through a grieving process, not wanting to believe that Santa was imaginary.

But then one day I realised.... I just didn't believe in Santa anymore. It was a painful revelation, one I never wanted, but I have no choice but to disbelieve. I cannot twist my own arm behind my back to believe in Santa again. I just can't kid myself about it.

Society and its morals evolve and will continue to evolve. The bible however remains the same and just requires more and more apologetics and claims of "metaphors" and "symbolism" to justify it.

Prayer is like rubbing an old bottle and hoping that a genie will pop out and grant you three wishes.

There is much about this world that is mind boggling and impressive, but I see no need whatsoever to put it down to magical super powered beings.


Check out my website: Recker's World of Fantasy

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Post #6

Post by JehovahsWitness »

I can't remember if I ever believed in Santa Clause, there weren't a whole lot of christmas presents in our home growing up... I don't believe SC exists now as an adult because I see no evidence that he does.

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Post #7

Post by Delphi »

As a kid I caught my mother attempting to replace a tooth under my pillow with a coin. Perhaps there is no tooth fairy.

My mom's handwriting also looks suspiciously like Santa's. Perhaps there is no Santa.

For a small child, there is LOTS of evidence for the existence of Santa. There is photographic evidence in the mall with children on Santa's lap. Movies are made about Santa. Your parents tell you that Santa exists. When your parents and society tell you something wonderful, it is human behavior to accept it as being true.

Santa is a lot like God.

He sees you when you're sleeping. He knows when you're awake. He knows if you've been bad or good. So be good or you will be tortured for all eternity.

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Post #8

Post by jfoldbar »

[Replying to Delphi]

you make it sound just like god. only difference is god has a book full of holes to help disprove him. santa has no such contradictory book.

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Post #9

Post by Delphi »

Santa has eight reindeer (9 if you include Rudolph) to corroborate his existence.

Ho ho holy bowl full of jelly! At least we know the North Pole exists in reality.

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Post #10

Post by McCulloch »

Delphi wrote: Santa has eight reindeer (9 if you include Rudolph) to corroborate his existence.

Ho ho holy bowl full of jelly! At least we know the North Pole exists in reality.
You apostate! There were ten. You left out Olive. You know, the other reindeer.
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