A different belief

[Oberoth]

on the subject of god and satan.
would it not be likely that since god created everything and that he is the lord of all, that satan is not evil as has been believed for a long time. not a betrayer and enemy of god, but a punisher of the sinful? a neccisary being as god rewards the good , so to does satan punish the evil by gods will and seeks out those who are sinful to be punished?

reference the book of job. satan was not an evil, he merely sought out the evil which he believed to be inherant in man?

[Goat]

on the subject of god and satan.
would it not be likely that since god created everything and that he is the lord of all, that satan is not evil as has been believed for a long time. not a betrayer and enemy of god, but a punisher of the sinful? a neccisary being as god rewards the good , so to does satan punish the evil by gods will and seeks out those who are sinful to be punished?

reference the book of job. satan was not an evil, he merely sought out the evil which he believed to be inherant in man?

In the Jewish faith , there is not 'free will' for angels, and satan in an angel. Angels are named for their function, a title so to speak. The purpose of 'shaitan' or the accuser is to provide for bad choices, so, by choosing 'good' choices, man can lift themselves up from a mundane life, and live a sanctified life closer to God.

[Skyler]

on the subject of god and satan.
would it not be likely that since god created everything and that he is the lord of all, that satan is not evil as has been believed for a long time. not a betrayer and enemy of god, but a punisher of the sinful? a neccisary being as god rewards the good , so to does satan punish the evil by gods will and seeks out those who are sinful to be punished?

reference the book of job. satan was not an evil, he merely sought out the evil which he believed to be inherant in man?

Firstly, you misunderstand the nature of good and evil. Evil is not in itself an entity; evil is the absence of good. This is a common misunderstanding which atheists in particular are fond of pushing, in the context of the problem of evil.

God being the standard of good, then, and Satan being portrayed as trying to oppose God at every turn, it seems to me that Satan pretty much has to be defined as "evil".

[indie_girl03]

why would god create satan in the first place?
if god is all powerful and perfect, how can something imperfect be created from something perfect?
if we are made in the image of god, why are we not perfection?
the same can be asked about satan, if god made satan, and god is perfect as so many say, how can something so imperfect as evil be born from something as good as god?
just a little speculation=)

[McCulloch]

Evil is not in itself an entity; evil is the absence of good. This is a common misunderstanding which atheists in particular are fond of pushing, in the context of the problem of evil.

According to PhilosophyOnline there are two types of evil:

1. Moral evil - This covers the willful acts of human beings (such as murder, rape, etc.)
2. Natural evil - This refers to natural disasters (such as famines, floods, etc.)

In the first case, I cannot see how a rape, for example is the absence of good. It is a willful bad act. In the second case, let's say lightening hitting someone, it is again not the absence of good. It is a chance occurrence with an evil outcome.

In light of this, Skyler, your definition of evil makes no sense to me.

[Avariel]

Firstly, you misunderstand the nature of good and evil. Evil is not in itself an entity; evil is the absence of good. This is a common misunderstanding which atheists in particular are fond of pushing, in the context of the problem of evil.

God being the standard of good, then, and Satan being portrayed as trying to oppose God at every turn, it seems to me that Satan pretty much has to be defined as "evil".

Actually, demons are commonly thought to be a "personification" of evil, in that they are tangible figures or existences that qualify abstract ideals of evil. This is a well accepted definition of a demon by many Biblical scholars; that there is an abstract idea of "evil" and that demons are the result of this evil made into some sort of form.

[indie_girl03]

Evil is not in itself an entity; evil is the absence of good. This is a common misunderstanding which atheists in particular are fond of pushing, in the context of the problem of evil.

According to PhilosophyOnline there are two types of evil:

1. Moral evil - This covers the willful acts of human beings (such as murder, rape, etc.)
2. Natural evil - This refers to natural disasters (such as famines, floods, etc.)

In the first case, I cannot see how a rape, for example is the absence of good. It is a willful bad act. In the second case, let's say lightening hitting someone, it is again not the absence of good. It is a chance occurrence with an evil outcome.

In light of this, Skyler, your definition of evil makes no sense to me.

i have a problem with part of your definition of evil. how is there natural evil? nature is just nature, it doesn't choose who to attack, nature would behave the same way whether there were humans and animals on earth or not. nature is indifferent, therefore it cannot be evil. sure, its easy to blame some kind of evil when a natural disaster happens, but its not like nature picks out targets to devastate. while, on the other hand, humans conciously choose targets they wish to cause harm to...

[McCulloch]

how is there natural evil?

Natural evil is not evil in the deliberate sense of the word. It is evil only in its effect on humanity. Huntington's disease for example. From a theistic perspective, this must be explained. Why would a good and omnipotent God allow this disease to exist?

[OnceConvinced]

why would god create satan in the first place?
if god is all powerful and perfect, how can something imperfect be created from something perfect?
if we are made in the image of god, why are we not perfection?
the same can be asked about satan, if god made satan, and god is perfect as so many say, how can something so imperfect as evil be born from something as good as god?
just a little speculation=)

What makes it even more ridiculous is that God, being omniscient knew when he created Satan the havoc he would cause. He knew that he would manipulate mankind thus resulting in billions and billions of humans frying in Hell. But yet he still created Satan and put no systems in place to prevent his rebellion. And not only that God put him in charge of his own throne (although why he would need someone to do that job for him is a mystery).

The best we can say is that God was apathetic and complacent when he created Satan especially when refusing to reel him in after he rebelled.

Of course from a more sensible Christian perspective, God is not omniscient and therefore had no clue about the havoc Satan would cause. But of course you still then have to justify why God didn't put an end to Satan's activities. It definitely shows a lack of concern for his creations.

[Avariel]

What makes it even more ridiculous is that God, being omniscient knew when he created Satan the havoc he would cause. He knew that he would manipulate mankind thus resulting in billions and billions of humans frying in Hell. But yet he still created Satan and put no systems in place to prevent his rebellion.

I always found this a bit peculiar as well; my own theory is that "God" really did instate an order of Free Will, in whatever limited form, even amongst his own followers. I've had a few people suggest to me that this was his first experiment in the concept of ruling creatures that had the opportunity to refuse such leadership and because it failed so spectacularly (his most beautiful angel ended up betraying him completely) he sort of "started over."

Whoops.

Of course, if God is omniscient then why would he even bother if he knew what was going to happen? This would suggest that either God is not omniscient, or the future is not static and is fluid/changeable based on this whacky Free Will idea and he sort of sees all possible futures, but not a single definite one. Or it suggests that God just doesn't exist at all by his own standards.

And not only that God put him in charge of his own throne (although why he would need someone to do that job for him is a mystery).

Unemployment, most likely. It just sounds like a fluff job, doesn't it? "I've got a very important job for you! You get to watch...my throne!"

No wonder Lucifer rebelled, who wants to watch a chair all day?

The best we can say is that God was apathetic and complacent when he created Satan especially when refusing to reel him in after he rebelled.

Of course from a more sensible Christian perspective, God is not omniscient and therefore had no clue about the havoc Satan would cause. But of course you still then have to justify why God didn't put an end to Satan's activities. It definitely shows a lack of concern for his creations.

It shows a great many things, the most obtuse one that's been put forward being "God works in mysterious ways." Apparently he's going to reel Satan in, too, just not after he's caused about 6,000 or so years of pain, misery, death, and torture. I'm a bit mistified, myself. But it's one of many things that just doesn't make sense or add up, and while we're told quite often from the Bible that we wouldn't understand these things even if God told us (so he just doesn't bother to tell us) I think it would be simple enough to at least clarify what he means on...almost everything, really, that he says.