Former Atheists - What convinced you?

Getting to know more about a particular group

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
rikuoamero
Under Probation
Posts: 6707
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 2:06 pm

Former Atheists - What convinced you?

Post #1

Post by rikuoamero »

What I'm writing here is for those people who consider themselves to be former atheist i.e. at one point in life, they either lacked a belief in a god of any kind, or actively disbelieved there is a God (there's a difference between the two).
I'm hoping that at least some people who are of this group (and hopefully joined the usergroup called 'Former Atheist' on this site) are/were also skeptical, in that they demanded evidence for religious claims.

My question is - What is it that convinced you? If you were to somehow go back in time and meet your previous, atheist (hopefully skeptic) self, would you or could you use whatever it is that convinced you to convince that version of you? Or would your past self be skeptical and dismissive of what it is you present?

Just to be clear - This isn't restricted to Christians only. You can be a Muslim who considers him/herself former atheist or whatever religion or belief you subscribe to. I want to hear from you.
I also promise NOT to debate in this thread. All I want are responses and your thoughts on this question. I will probably debate elsewhere, but not on this thread. This thread is solely for me to gather information.

User avatar
bluegreenearth
Guru
Posts: 1406
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:06 pm
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana
Has thanked: 182 times
Been thanked: 112 times

Re: Former Atheists - What convinced you?

Post #171

Post by bluegreenearth »

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #171]

To take an action based on previous observations of the action manifesting outcomes that functioned to help achieve the intended goal would be a logically justifiable reason to take the action regardless of whether you believe it was commanded by a God or not. So, if you can demonstrate where taking a particular action is reliably predicted to produce beneficial results for humanity and the planet, then why is it even necessary to reference an unfalsifiable claim about God commanding the action be taken?

2timothy316
Prodigy
Posts: 2704
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:51 am
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 39 times

Re: Former Atheists - What convinced you?

Post #172

Post by 2timothy316 »

bluegreenearth wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:20 am [Replying to 2timothy316 in post #171]

To take an action based on previous observations of the action manifesting outcomes that functioned to help achieve the intended goal would be a logically justifiable reason to take the action regardless of whether you believe it was commanded by a God or not. So, if you can demonstrate where taking a particular action is reliably predicted to produce beneficial results for humanity and the planet, then why is it even necessary to reference an unfalsifiable claim about God commanding the action be taken?
To show who's actions are best to follow. Once a person has made the choice that there is an intelligent creator, then discovered who they are, what their purpose is, what they want from that person, there is another thing one must find out. Should one do what they say? Do the results they promised come true.

User avatar
bluegreenearth
Guru
Posts: 1406
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:06 pm
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana
Has thanked: 182 times
Been thanked: 112 times

Re: Former Atheists - What convinced you?

Post #173

Post by bluegreenearth »

2timothy316 wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:50 am To show who's actions are best to follow. Once a person has made the choice that there is an intelligent creator, then discovered who they are, what their purpose is, what they want from that person, there is another thing one must find out. Should one do what they say? Do the results they promised come true.
I wasn't aware that someone could choose to be convinced by the available evidence to believe there is an intelligent creator. Please describe the process that allows someone to voluntarily become convinced by the available evidence supporting this unfalsifiable claim when the person isn't currently convinced by the available evidence?

2timothy316
Prodigy
Posts: 2704
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:51 am
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 39 times

Re: Former Atheists - What convinced you?

Post #174

Post by 2timothy316 »

bluegreenearth wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:27 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:50 am To show who's actions are best to follow. Once a person has made the choice that there is an intelligent creator, then discovered who they are, what their purpose is, what they want from that person, there is another thing one must find out. Should one do what they say? Do the results they promised come true.
I wasn't aware that someone could choose to be convinced by the available evidence to believe there is an intelligent creator. Please describe the process that allows someone to voluntarily become convinced by the available evidence supporting this unfalsifiable claim when the person isn't currently convinced by the available evidence?
So you're asking for more proof?
Here's a question, which has more evidence, that there is no intelligent creator or there is one?

User avatar
bluegreenearth
Guru
Posts: 1406
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:06 pm
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana
Has thanked: 182 times
Been thanked: 112 times

Re: Former Atheists - What convinced you?

Post #175

Post by bluegreenearth »

2timothy316 wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:22 pm So you're asking for more proof?
Here's a question, which has more evidence, that there is no intelligent creator or there is one?
I asked you to describe a process; not for proof. Please read my posts more carefully as this is the second time you've misinterpreted my remarks. For the time being, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you aren't deliberately making an uncharitable interpretation.

In order to clearly answer your question, it is necessary for me to describe the criteria for what constitutes evidence. From my perspective, evidence is any information that functions to help me determine if a falsifiable claim is false or not. You have not yet provided me with any credible evidence that helps me determine if your claim is false or not because your claim is unfalsifiable. Logic dictates that no quantity or quality of evidence will ever demonstrate an unfalsifiable claim is true or false. As such, even if your claim were true, an inability to determine if it is false or not indicates that there is no reasonable justification to assert it is true or more likely to be true than any other competing unfalsifiable claim.

Now, responsibly and honestly acknowledging the unfalsifiability of your claim does not serve to provide support for a competing claim either. Accordingly, I have not claimed there is no intelligent creator because that would also be an unfalsifiable proposition. In any case, no quantity or quality of evidence would ever successfully demonstrate an intelligent creator of the universe does not exist because the counter-argument will always be that it is impossible to observe anything that might exist outside of our space-time universe to know an intelligent creator does not exist there. At the same time, that same counter-argument prohibits us from observing if an intelligent creator does exist outside of our space-time universe. So, we are left with no justifiable reason to prefer any proposed conclusion at this point. Intellectual honesty compels me to acknowledge when I don't know the answer or the most likely answer.

2timothy316
Prodigy
Posts: 2704
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:51 am
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 39 times

Re: Former Atheists - What convinced you?

Post #176

Post by 2timothy316 »

[Replying to bluegreenearth in post #176]
So that is a no then? For me to demonstrate anything requires you to make a critical decision. Yet if you're going to dance around the question make excuses as you have done this whole conversation then I have nothing so show you. You must have your answer now to the question, 'which has more evidence, no intelligent creator or there is an intelligent creator'. Not with my evidence rules but with yours. What is your answer with the evidence you have? I don't care if is a lot or none according to your rules. I didn't require you use what I call evidence, use what you have. Make a choice based on what you know now, as if your life depended on it. Don't go into a big long response, I don't need you to prove yourself to me why you answer one way or another. What is your answer? Which way does your evidence point? Creator or no creator for the first life form? If you say yes there is a creator with what you have now, then I will have much to show you. If you say no or refuse to answer then I will thank you for your answer and be on my way.

User avatar
bluegreenearth
Guru
Posts: 1406
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:06 pm
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana
Has thanked: 182 times
Been thanked: 112 times

Re: Former Atheists - What convinced you?

Post #177

Post by bluegreenearth »

2timothy316 wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:57 pm [Replying to bluegreenearth in post #176]
So that is a no then? For me to demonstrate anything requires you to make a critical decision. Yet if you're going to dance around the question make excuses as you have done this whole conversation then I have nothing so show you. You must have your answer now to the question, 'which has more evidence, no intelligent creator or there is an intelligent creator'. Not with my evidence rules but with yours. What is your answer with the evidence you have? I don't care if is a lot or none according to your rules. I didn't require you use what I call evidence, use what you have. Make a choice based on what you know now, as if your life depended on it.
I have not danced around your question but demonstrated where your question attempts to force a logical fallacy. Your failure to recognize or understand the fact that no quantity or quality of evidence will function to support your unfalsifiable claim is not my problem. It is irrational to expect me to choose to believe an unfalsifiable claim is true or false. I recommend you educate yourself on the laws of logic and familiarize yourself with the more common logical fallacies.

2timothy316
Prodigy
Posts: 2704
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:51 am
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 39 times

Re: Former Atheists - What convinced you?

Post #178

Post by 2timothy316 »

[Replying to bluegreenearth in post #178]

Still can't answer eh. Well, thank you for your time. When you are more educated to make critical choices, are able to move past the academic to the practical, then let me know and we will continue. Until then, I wish you well.

benchwarmer
Guru
Posts: 1646
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:40 am
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 10 times

Re: Former Atheists - What convinced you?

Post #179

Post by benchwarmer »

2timothy316 wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:13 pm [Replying to bluegreenearth in post #178]

Still can't answer eh. Well, thank you for your time. When you are more educated to make critical choices, are able to move past the academic to the practical, then let me know and we will continue. Until then, I wish you well.
How have you missed the fact that your question was answered, but you just don't like the answer? If I'm not mistaken, the answer was "I don't know". This is also the correct answer when faced with an unfalsifiable claim.

2timothy316
Prodigy
Posts: 2704
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:51 am
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 39 times

Re: Former Atheists - What convinced you?

Post #180

Post by 2timothy316 »

benchwarmer wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:56 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:13 pm [Replying to bluegreenearth in post #178]

Still can't answer eh. Well, thank you for your time. When you are more educated to make critical choices, are able to move past the academic to the practical, then let me know and we will continue. Until then, I wish you well.
How have you missed the fact that your question was answered, but you just don't like the answer? If I'm not mistaken, the answer was "I don't know". This is also the correct answer when faced with an unfalsifiable claim.
An 'I don't know' is a lack of decisiveness. He wants more demonstration but he can't have that with a lack of decisiveness. People have to make choices based on what evidence they have available or there is no progress. An I don't know answer means he will be stuck in academic and will never be able to move on to the practical.

Example: A person studies for their driving test. Studying every book in order to be a good driver. They take the written test and pass. The problem is they will not get into a car to apply what they have learned. Thus they will never be able to pass the practical driving part of the exam. There are things that can't be learned from talking about it. They must be put into practical application. That is why a person is not given a license just for passing the written exam. So why stop short of practical application? Fear of failure? Fear they will be laughed at? Fear they might harm themselves or others? A person frozen to inaction because they don't have all the answers could suffer more than a person that is willing to act enough they don't have the complete picture. Some think it is not critical, but what do they based that on? They can make decision that it's not critical but do they have all the answers to make the choice something is not critical to act on?

There is enough evidence in the world, to not prove, but to make a decision if the first living organism was make by an intelligent being. I asked as far as what evidence he has collected, which way does it point? Some act like it's going to kill them to make a choice. The fear is puzzling.

Post Reply