Why are you Atheist/Agnostic

[FrostyM288]

Though technically not a debate question...hope the moderators don't mind this topic .

For those of you who aren't religious, why are you and was there a turning point in your thought (i.e. former theist --> atheist)?

[wonderer]

I'm probably an agnostic now, rather than an atheist, but I definitely no longer believe in the Christian God, or any that I've heard of yet. I was a fundamentalist Christian, and I believed the Bible to be the infallible Word of God. Re the disturbing aspects like God sending people to hell, I must have a) not really believed it would be literal and b) accepted the arguments of 'older' Christians, that God 'had' to do it to punish evil.

I don't know why it took me so long to arrive at the question, 'well, why did he create us in the first place then, if it meant he 'had' to send people to hell??'
Maybe it took me so long because as long as I skimmed over those disturbing aspects of Christian doctrine, most of it seemed to work for me and made sense.

Finally I found myself in a Reformed Presbyterian church and came face to face with the concept of God only 'calling' certain people. That got me to the point of thinking...why did he create us in the first place....Around that time the minister preached sermons about how the drought our land was experiencing was God's judgement. That led me to the thought that even if it was fair for God to send judgement to humans, how was it fair on animals? Around that time, whenever I opened the Bible, it seemed to be hard to find a nice part to read! It all seemed to be about God ranting about what terrible things he was going to do to his people, their children, unbelievers, and even animals. In fact, God seemed to be actually GLOATING over the horrible things he was going to do, for instance children would be crying and panting for water 'at the ends of the streets'. God talked as if he was enjoying dispensing his judgements which he even called 'cruel'.

These thoughts of God's cruelty began to haunt me over the next few weeks. I visited my minister to ask the question re wasn't it cruel of God to create us in the first place, knowing most would end in hell, and knowing all the pain and suffering humans and animals would go through in this life and the next? The minister acknowledge it was a fair question, but didn't offer any explanation. Nobody I brought it up with could give me an explanation, and actually I knew there was no answer. I never went back to church again. The Bible can't be God's Word, because God can't be good and cruel at the same time, and yet the Bible portrays him as both. That doesn't make sense. There's a lot more that I came to realize, too much to go into here, but that was the main thing.

[FrostyM288]

Sorry, been out and about for holidays and just got around to reading everyone's stories. Thanks for posting, it's been fun/interesting to read

I discovered that the epistemological support for Christianity is largely absent.

Could you be more specific?

What he said

[McCulloch]

I discovered that the epistemological support for Christianity is largely absent.

Could you be more specific?

I couldn't be much less specific, could I?

I came to Christianity in my late teens. I supposed that the sense of community and purpose that the Christians had appealed to me. I accepted the teachings of the Bible and felt that they would give meaning to my life. Those who had been in the faith a lot longer than I seemed to find comfort, wisdom and guidance in this book. But, not having been raised with Biblical Christianity, I was lagging behind in spiritual knowledge. So, seeking first the kingdom of God, I enrolled full time in a bible college. It was there, against the intentions of the instructors, that I discovered that the allegedly profound wisdom contained therein are quite superficial and derivative and that the rock solid evidences supporting literal bible belief can be found to be fallacious, when challenged objectively or rigorously. In short, the foundation is built on sand.

[lewiy]

I am anti-theist. I think that religions are, on the whole, dangerous for the species. They are simply an outdated understanding of the universe, an early attempt at scientific understanding. If it were proven in 100 years time that the theory of relativity was wrong, yet a bunch of people hung on to its ideas and spent their lives trying to convince other people that it was correct, it would be damaging for society as a whole and restrictive to the learning process that is ongoing.

In respect of my atheistic views, I am a non-believer in a theistic deity by definition because I am not theist. I am a non-believer in horoscopes because I don’t believe in horoscopes. I am a non-believer in the Loch Ness Monster because I don’t believe in Nessie! I do wish that I wasn’t labelled just because I DON’T believe in a mythical, supernatural being. We don’t label people that don’t believe that the Lord Of The Rings is a factual text or that Gandalf is a real wizard, so why should there be a specific name for those that don’t believe certain particular books?

[JoeyKnothead]

I present as evidence for the rationality of, and the compelling, immediate need for adopting the atheist position...

Some writers speak of the Islamic religion as the religion of the Anti-christ but this is misguided. The Antchrist is clearly pictured in Revelation chapter seventeen as the intimate companion of the false whore church of Christianity .At no point in the twenty -two chapters of Revelation is there one bit of evidence of an Islamic religion even existed.... What happens to IT? There are two wars , the first one Israel and the IDF gives Islam and Allah a bloody nose and the second one Allah will be history. Every false religion is blasphemous to the Heavenly Father . The final judgment demands that every false god be destroyed, along with those that have foolishly followed that god. The Islamic religion has spewed its anger and vengence on human life for almost 1,400 years .It appears to this multitude that their religion is in its asendance and ready to triumph over the world. That is a false illusion created by lucifer. The pride and arrogance of the leading proponents of Islam are setting the stage for their own destruction. They are call for war against the very name of Jehovah God and are claiming the right to possess the city where Christ died and arose. Tis same city, Jerusalem , is also the city where He is soon to establish His earthly Kingdom. Do not think that our God on his heavenly throne is unaware of these claims and plans. Recenty , the chief Ayatollah of Iran, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, called for all Islamic governments to mobilize for the task of seizing Jerusalem and eliminating the nation of Israel. But God has already declared what He will do when this massive army is looming on the northern horizon and moving toward Israel and Jerusalem . For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel. This will be the Mother of all Battles, and their Allah will no longer be God. This battle will leave millions dead or vaporized on or from the battle field. Only one soldier out of six will be left alive. The slaughter will be so complete that the very mention of the Islamic religion will draw a hiss from those that survived. Once this horde of soldiers has been stopped , the hand of God will move toward every nation that had joined this Isamic Coalition. The destruction of the nations that have sent their armies to destroy the Jews and the great city of Jerusalem will send a message to every surviving citizen of the Islamic world. The heathens....... those worshipping Allah and other false gods........ will know that there is only one true God. The prophecy is extremly clear that the small armies left to return to their homeland will find nothing but sorrow, devastation and barrenness. I believe this great event will spark a sovereign move of the Holy Ghost throughout the land where this judgment has occurred . Former Muslims will turn to the Lord Jesus Christ by the tens of thousands . It will be a spiritual tsunami and Allah will be NOMORE!.... AS we say Allah will be HISTORY!... Jesus bless Israel is Gods time line.

Well rant at lest we both agree that the nation of islam is doomed to being destroyed. But we have very different views on How this will come about.

You see the modern state of israel as God created. This i believe is a deception you and many others are caught up in.

The modern Israel is not a creation of God but a creation of the British parliament and the zionist movement.

Truth be told it is at it's core an anti jewish creation. It is not the final refuge for jews it is the final concentration camp. Built for the needs of the servants of the anti-christ.

It is a deception machine playing its part and islam is also part of that deception machine islam will play it's part as a sacrifice to help in the final deception. The anti-christ needs to fulfil prophecy. He needs to destroy a beast. Islam fulfils that role. For the anti-christ wishes to be accepted as the Messiah. To be worshipped as God on earth he must be accepted as the Messiah. He needs to save the jews from the muslims to be their saving hero.

muslims are deceived by their false prophet, satan does not care for those he has already deceived. They are like chips he can throw away to deceive more. Sending a billion deceived to their deaths to win over a few more million is what satan will do without hesitation.

It is the anti-christ that will destroy the arab nation and of the arabs only the prominent people of Ammon Moab and Edom (Modern day Jordan) will be spared. It is no co-incidence that the King of Jordan has been known as a friend to Israel and as a voice of moderate islam to the west.

So the Anti-christ will destroy the arabs and be hailed as the Messiah by the Jews and deceive many christians into believing He is the returned Messiah Jesus. He will do many signs and wonders to deceive the world.

And my response:

...Anti-christ...false whore church...two wars...bloody nose...false religion...blasphemous...Heavenly Father...final judgment...demands...false god...destroyed...foolishly followed...anger and vengence...asendance...triumph over the world...false illusion...lucifer...pride and arrogance...own destruction...call for war...Jehovah God...right to possess...died and arose...heavenly throne...unaware...mobilize for the task...seizing...eliminating...massive army...looming...jealousy...fire of my wrath...great shaking in the land...Mother of all Battles...millions dead...vaporized...battle field...slaughter...hiss...horde of soldiers...hand of God...destruction of the nations...armies to destroy...heathens...false gods...one true God...prophecy...sorrow, devastation and barrenness...judgment has occurred...spiritual tsunami...NOMORE...

...doomed to being destroyed...deception you...caught up in...final concentration camp...of the anti-christ...deception machine...playing its part...a sacrifice...final deception...fulfil prophecy...destroy a beast...destroy a beast...worshipped as God...saving hero...muslims are deceived...false prophet...satan...throw away...billion deceived...to their deaths...without hesitation...destroy the arab nation...the Anti-christ will destroy the arabs...hailed as the Messiah...deceive many...signs and wonders...

That's what I typically see during these sorts of conversations among some theists.

I'm ashamed of you both.


Please exit the planet in a swift, calm, orderly fashion.

When folks carry on like them first two, we need to be doing some rethinking on that whole religion deal.

[sarabellum]

In an indirect way I would say that life experience is the reason why I am no longer a believer....

As a child I feel like I was open to the idea of God and the super-natural....
I think I truly believed in santa...
The easter bunny...
Magic....
I thought my imaginary friend was real....
I believed in God...

As time went on the layers of my super-natural "onion" began to peel away....

Over and over again I was let down by my "faith" in ideas like santa...

As I aged and with the help of a little schooling, more and more of the things I considered possible were shown to be lacking....
Horoscopes....
Energy crystals...

One by one my "beliefs" seem to fall on the sword of truth and reason....

Soon I was left with only two or three super-natural ideas that hadn't proven fraudulent.....
Gods and Ghosts....

Now I try to keep an open mind but experience has taught me to be cautious when it comes to the super-natural...
In no meaningful way has a belief in the super-natural ever panned out...
Most times, in my experience, super-natural ideas have proven to be bold face lies.....

I don't know if there is a God, but experience seems to indicate that I should not build my beliefs on shifting sand....

Sorry God.

[aguy]

In other words, I trusted and invested in the beliefs and processes, awaited the results (in my life and that of others) and drew my conclusion based on what I saw.

I am curious what denomination you belonged to.

[aguy]

I'm probably an agnostic now, rather than an atheist, but I definitely no longer believe in the Christian God, or any that I've heard of yet. I was a fundamentalist Christian, and I believed the Bible to be the infallible Word of God. Re the disturbing aspects like God sending people to hell, I must have a) not really believed it would be literal and b) accepted the arguments of 'older' Christians, that God 'had' to do it to punish evil.

I don't know why it took me so long to arrive at the question, 'well, why did he create us in the first place then, if it meant he 'had' to send people to hell??'
Maybe it took me so long because as long as I skimmed over those disturbing aspects of Christian doctrine, most of it seemed to work for me and made sense.

Finally I found myself in a Reformed Presbyterian church and came face to face with the concept of God only 'calling' certain people. That got me to the point of thinking...why did he create us in the first place....Around that time the minister preached sermons about how the drought our land was experiencing was God's judgement. That led me to the thought that even if it was fair for God to send judgement to humans, how was it fair on animals? Around that time, whenever I opened the Bible, it seemed to be hard to find a nice part to read! It all seemed to be about God ranting about what terrible things he was going to do to his people, their children, unbelievers, and even animals. In fact, God seemed to be actually GLOATING over the horrible things he was going to do, for instance children would be crying and panting for water 'at the ends of the streets'. God talked as if he was enjoying dispensing his judgements which he even called 'cruel'.

These thoughts of God's cruelty began to haunt me over the next few weeks. I visited my minister to ask the question re wasn't it cruel of God to create us in the first place, knowing most would end in hell, and knowing all the pain and suffering humans and animals would go through in this life and the next? The minister acknowledge it was a fair question, but didn't offer any explanation. Nobody I brought it up with could give me an explanation, and actually I knew there was no answer. I never went back to church again. The Bible can't be God's Word, because God can't be good and cruel at the same time, and yet the Bible portrays him as both. That doesn't make sense. There's a lot more that I came to realize, too much to go into here, but that was the main thing.

If you had a chance to get your questions answered now, would you still be interested in finding the answers?

[Bust Nak]

For those of you who aren't religious, why are you and was there a turning point in your thought (i.e. former theist --> atheist)?

There was no turning point, I had always been an atheist. I am not a religious person because I weren't brought up as one. I remember my mum asking if I wanted to go to church, I said no and that was the end of it.

[ThatGirlAgain]

I left religion behind as a result of reading the Bible….sort of.

As long as I remember I was interested in knowledge of all sorts, especially the sciences. I was raised Catholic and that is a fairly science friendly religion so there was not much conflict going on. And being still very young and not yet practiced in critical thinking, I was able to keep the religious ‘knowledge’ and the ‘secular’ knowledge in separate compartments in my head.

Then when I was 11 I read the Bible. This was just out of general interest, a new place to find potentially interesting information. To say I was (an am) an avid reader is to grossly understate the situation. I devour books. I began with the Gospels, these being an obvious source of information about this fascinating (but also confusing) Jesus guy.

What I found was not the single coherent story I had been taught in religion classes. While mostly retaining a common theme, they differed from each other in very significant ways, not only presenting discernibly different themes but seemingly an evolving story. I decided to read about the Gospels and discovered that my first impression was not unique. The stories were significantly different and there was a definite evolution.

I had been told that Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular were rooted in well attested historical events. That turned out not to be the case. With the ‘inerrant word of God’ idea seriously compromised, the secular knowledge ‘box’ overflowed into the religious knowledge domain and the aura of the miraculous that previously colored my religious feelings was washed away. This did not happen overnight of course. It took about two years of reading and thinking. But by the time I was 13 I was a Catholic only in habits. (I still lived at home and had to preserve ‘protective coloration’.) But belief was gone although my fascination with the evolution of the religion remains intact.