What is Kosher?

[Kuan]

I keep hearing kosher but I have no clue what it means...Can someone please explain?

[micatala]

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Adstar referred to another debater as a "traditions of men jew". Applying labels to others who do not apply them to themselves is uncivil. This label could be seen as an attempt to be demeaning, insulting and degrading.

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So then McCulloch

Please tell me the correct and acceptable way to refer to religious laws that are not written down in a religions foundation Book that is believe by them to be the direct Word of God, but are religious laws added to those laws by men. And those laws are now traditions of the said religion?

So what is the acceptable, niceness, politically correct terminology for these laws please?



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

The rules of the forum dictate that responses to moderator actions must be made via PM.

[cnorman18]

Your claim is that Kosher is a creation of your religion outside what is written in the OT. Therefore you cannot provide direct Word of God directives that teach Kosher Law as you believe them to be. So therefore the traditions of men jew tag i used to describe you is factual because the Koshar laws you support are exactly that, Traditions of men passed down within the current religion that is refered to as Jewish.

First, there is this:

The Kosher Laws are as written in the OT describing foods that are good for eating and the proper way of preparing them.

That is factually false, as I have shown. Again: if you'd care to show where the details of the kosher laws are written in the OT, which is apparently your claim, please do so. Do you stand by your claim here? If so, please prove it.

Second: If you want to say, without the negative implications, that the Jewish religion is primarily based on tradition, I would have no argument with that at all; I have said so many times. The PROBLEM is your obvious implicit claim that it is therefore invalid, false, and inferior to your own beliefs. THAT is what makes it an insult. If you'd care to make it clear that that isn't what you mean, we're OK here. If you don't, then I'll stand by my characterization of your remark as an insult.

Up to you.

Two points.

It seems we have a definition problem and an ownership problem with the word Kosher.

You seem to be trying to claim exclusive ownership of the word Kosher to the traditions of the modern day religion called judaism. While i am using the word Kosher as it is generally used in the Christian community to refer to laws in the OT regarding correct foods and food preparations.

So you are trying to undermine my message because of the words of use. Arguing over semantics in an attempt to avoid the message i am actually given.

I can continue with this and no longer use the word Kosher, I can call it the "Will of the God of Abraham in regards to the correct food and food preparation for His people" Hows that happy now.

So the "Will of the God of Abraham in regards to the correct food and food preparation for His people" is contained in the OT/Torah and any other traditions added to that or traditions that teach in opposition to that are the traditions of men.

You chose the word "kosher." It has a specific meaning in regard to the dietary laws of the Jewish religion. That meaning was in place long before you and I began to talk here. You made claims about the laws to which that specific word refers being found in the OT. They aren't there. That's not a semantic quibble; you made a false factual claim about an actual word with an accepted meaning in both the Christian and Jewish communities. I can't call bagels and lox "holy communion," and you can't make up whatever dietary rules you like and call them "the kosher laws." You were wrong; I wasn't. Period, full stop.

Second point.

I read your descriptions under your name. Stating that you are now a jew but where a former Christian.

So you show by your very own decision to convert to modern judaism that you see modern judaism as superior to Christianity. If you had not seen it as superior you would not have converted to modern judaism in the first place. So it is pretty rich for you to start complaining about others who believe their faith is superior.

Don't put words in my mouth. I have never said any such thing, and I have never THOUGHT any such thing. I do not say that Judaism is superior to Christianity, nor that Christianity is inferior to Judaism. I felt, and still feel, that Judaism is the proper religion for me. It is my spiritual home, and was long before I knew anything of it. I do not say it should be anyone else's.

We Jews do not claim that our religion is the only true one, nor that ours is better or truer than anyone else's; only that it is the proper religion for Jews. We claim to know how God chose to speak to us. If He chose to speak to another people in another way, that is no business of ours. You have no warrant to claim to know what I believe or think or to make judgments about things that you do not and cannot know. Period, full stop.

Obviously if i thought modern judaism was superior to Christianity i would convert today. I don't get all bent up and start to cry and moan because a muslim thinks islam is superior, or a jew thinks judaism was superior or a athiest thinks atheism in superior to belief in God. I don't walk around moaning and playing the victim. I accept that others believe what they believe and believe they are right to believe what they believe. Why don't you.

You apparently haven't been on this forum very long or read very many of my posts; my beliefs and convictions on these matters are well known around here. I think I'll just leave it at that.

Your failure to understand the most important principles of this forum -- those of CIVILITY and RESPECT -- are another matter.

[Adstar]

Since i am in danger of being banned for expressing my beliefs i will not take further part in this thread. I have said all i need to say anyway.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[Darias]

Since i am in danger of being banned for expressing my beliefs i will not take further part in this thread. I have said all i need to say anyway.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

People don't get banned for expressing their beliefs here; people get banned for violating the rules too many times -- plain and simple. If I called you names, I'd get in trouble too.

[cnorman18]

Since i am in danger of being banned for expressing my beliefs i will not take further part in this thread. I have said all i need to say anyway.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

It's rather apparent that there are certain matters of FACT upon which you have been proven wrong, including claims about what I myself feel and believe, upon which you had no right to make pronouncements.

You are entitled to your own BELIEFS, but not your own FACTS - and on this forum, it is considered honorable, ethical and admirable to retract statements made in error and admit it when one has said more than one had warrant to say. I have done so many times. It only makes one more worthy of respect, more credible, and more likely to be listened to with attention and taken seriously. Refusing to back down when one has been proven wrong only makes one look foolish and prideful.

Think about it.