Agnostics ready for the update? Agnostics' Slipstream out...

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Aetixintro
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Agnostics ready for the update? Agnostics' Slipstream out...

Post #1

Post by Aetixintro »

There is an Agnostics' Slipstream out that changes how Agnosticism will be presented in near future and it has this text to it:

"The Slipstream Argument - The requirements to Agnosticism increase..."

"One of the original formulations:

I'd like to inform you that, over the Pascal's Wager, now by new modal considerations, rather than to exist or not, that the Agnostics are logically impelled, by "ethics, meaning, (perh. sec.->) definition of God, and entailment of Heaven" to consider God, that is, they now enter first these 4 necessary entities (or else leaving Agnosticism altogether) before considering the reality of exactly God. This constitutes a refinement from earlier!

The Slipstream Argument vs. Pascal's Wager

Wikipedia presents Pascal's Wager in this way:
"It posits that humans all bet with their lives either that God exists or does not exist. Given the possibility that God actually does exist and assuming the infinite gain or loss associated with belief in God or with unbelief, a rational person should live as though God exists and seek to believe in God. If God does not actually exist, such a person will have only a finite loss (some pleasures, luxury, etc.).[1]"

The Slipstream Argument, however, REQUIRES the wondering agnostic to assume seriously the 4 (Christian/variations for other religions) constituents, such as Meaning, Description of God, Ethics (10 Commandments) and the Entailment of Heaven "into personal data-set". Without these, and you can check on Agnostic's honesty, the "emotional" Agnostic can easily be dismissed. This is a HARDER consideration of the Existence of God than Pascal' Wager and also takes higher position into eternity."

In order to fulfill the requirement for posting here, I have this question for the Agnostics, are you ready to update on Agnosticism, please?

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Re: Agnostics ready for the update? Agnostics' Slipstream ou

Post #2

Post by wiploc »

[Replying to post 1 by Aetixintro]

What are you trying to ask? Can you rephrase your question, striving for clarity and brevity?

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Re: Agnostics ready for the update? Agnostics' Slipstream ou

Post #3

Post by Goat »

wiploc wrote: [Replying to post 1 by Aetixintro]

What are you trying to ask? Can you rephrase your question, striving for clarity and brevity?

He hasn't been on in a long time, and your bafflement about what he is attempting to say is not unusual.
“What do you think science is? There is nothing magical about science. It is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results. So which part of that exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree with being thorough? Using careful observation? Being systematic? Or using consistent logic?�

Steven Novella

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Post #4

Post by Divine Insight »

I don't understand the OP either.

For me agnosticism simply means 'a-gnostic' (i.e. without sufficient knowledge to answer the question).

I always say that in terms of a spiritual or mystical essence to life I am intellectually agnostic and intuitively spiritual. ;)

With respect to the Abrahamic pictures of God I am a convinced atheists to the point where I'm certain that that God does not exist at least as literally described in the Bible.

But then again, I think many theists seem to be arguing that the Bible shouldn't be taken literally. So obviously they don't believe in the God that is literally described in the Bible either.

For me there is one thing about Pascal's wager than has never made sense and it is the following:
Aetixintro wrote: "a rational person should live as though God exists and seek to believe in God. If God does not actually exist, such a person will have only a finite loss (some pleasures, luxury, etc.).[1]"
For me personally this make no sense because I see no reason why I would need to change my lifestyle or do anything differently from how I currently live.

Pascal seems to be suggesting that it's actually enjoyable to sin. That seems rather strange.
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Post #5

Post by AdHoc »

Divine Insight wrote: Pascal seems to be suggesting that it's actually enjoyable to sin. That seems rather strange.
Hi DI,
I totally agree with you

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Re: Agnostics ready for the update? Agnostics' Slipstream ou

Post #6

Post by Aetixintro »

[Replying to post 2 by wiploc]

Let's assume there are 4 main ways to God's possible existence:

Ethics (10 commandments)
Meaning (to Heaven by moral life, etc)
Definition of God ("God is spirit")
Definition of Heaven (A place of perfect goodness etc.)

Then you need to live these 4 main ways to God before you start to doubt God's existence.

Before this, one has had the opportunity to start to doubt God right away, but this (short) text tells us that the Agnostics have requirements to fulfill before they get the credible opportunity to put God's existence into question.

If the Agnostics just start to doubt God's existence right away, they haven't made the serious attempt in trying to believe in God/God's existence at all, according to some.

Better now? Gone? Aynone else? Good? Cheers! :)
I'm cool! :) - Stronger Religion every day! Also by "mathematical Religion", the eternal forms, God closing the door on corrupt humanity, possibly!

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Re: Agnostics ready for the update? Agnostics' Slipstream ou

Post #7

Post by wiploc »

Aetixintro wrote: [Replying to post 2 by wiploc]

Let's assume there are 4 main ways to God's possible existence:

Ethics (10 commandments)
Meaning (to Heaven by moral life, etc)
Definition of God ("God is spirit")
Definition of Heaven (A place of perfect goodness etc.)

Then you need to live these 4 main ways to God before you start to doubt God's existence.

Before this, one has had the opportunity to start to doubt God right away, but this (short) text tells us that the Agnostics have requirements to fulfill before they get the credible opportunity to put God's existence into question.

If the Agnostics just start to doubt God's existence right away, they haven't made the serious attempt in trying to believe in God/God's existence at all, according to some.

Better now? Gone? Aynone else? Good? Cheers! :)
That's not reasonable. We are born not knowing whether gods exist. How can you pretend that we have to achieve four things before we can not know something. That doesn't make sense.

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Re: Agnostics ready for the update? Agnostics' Slipstream ou

Post #8

Post by Aetixintro »

[Replying to post 7 by wiploc]

Only if you seriously doubt God's existence.

If you say you have serious doubts, why not make them so?

:)
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Post #9

Post by postroad »

This is weird? The first step is we must accept that God exists but only as Bible God?

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Post #10

Post by Aetixintro »

[Replying to post 9 by postroad]

Why is that weird? If you're not prepared to accept a definition of God then how are you ever going to sense one? God is not a tree, not a car, not here, not there as such... so on until: God is spirit. That may set your mode of search if you ask me.
I'm cool! :) - Stronger Religion every day! Also by "mathematical Religion", the eternal forms, God closing the door on corrupt humanity, possibly!

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