Agnostics ready for the update? Agnostics' Slipstream out...

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Aetixintro
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Agnostics ready for the update? Agnostics' Slipstream out...

Post #1

Post by Aetixintro »

There is an Agnostics' Slipstream out that changes how Agnosticism will be presented in near future and it has this text to it:

"The Slipstream Argument - The requirements to Agnosticism increase..."

"One of the original formulations:

I'd like to inform you that, over the Pascal's Wager, now by new modal considerations, rather than to exist or not, that the Agnostics are logically impelled, by "ethics, meaning, (perh. sec.->) definition of God, and entailment of Heaven" to consider God, that is, they now enter first these 4 necessary entities (or else leaving Agnosticism altogether) before considering the reality of exactly God. This constitutes a refinement from earlier!

The Slipstream Argument vs. Pascal's Wager

Wikipedia presents Pascal's Wager in this way:
"It posits that humans all bet with their lives either that God exists or does not exist. Given the possibility that God actually does exist and assuming the infinite gain or loss associated with belief in God or with unbelief, a rational person should live as though God exists and seek to believe in God. If God does not actually exist, such a person will have only a finite loss (some pleasures, luxury, etc.).[1]"

The Slipstream Argument, however, REQUIRES the wondering agnostic to assume seriously the 4 (Christian/variations for other religions) constituents, such as Meaning, Description of God, Ethics (10 Commandments) and the Entailment of Heaven "into personal data-set". Without these, and you can check on Agnostic's honesty, the "emotional" Agnostic can easily be dismissed. This is a HARDER consideration of the Existence of God than Pascal' Wager and also takes higher position into eternity."

In order to fulfill the requirement for posting here, I have this question for the Agnostics, are you ready to update on Agnosticism, please?

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Post #31

Post by postroad »

[Replying to post 27 by Aetixintro]
It is not in my nature to believe conflicting testimony. I simply do not possess the powers of compartmentalization to do it. If that is a character flaw so be it.

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Re: Agnostics ready for the update? Agnostics' Slipstream ou

Post #32

Post by wiploc »

Aetixintro wrote: The first thought is that my apartment is in the state that I've left it in,
So you don't have to take my four tests first. Then I don't have to take your tests first either. Fair is fair.


...
What you describe is a kind of naive Agnosticism and I think it's shallow to be that way about such a serious question. ...

Just a warning, maybe your depth of Agnosticism will be judged as such, to the extent you have made efforts toward that end. As such, "irreligious" children/infants are only so, children/infants.
Insults again. We're done here.


Good? :)
And more snideness. Perfect.

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Re: Agnostics be aware...

Post #33

Post by ttruscott »

Aetixintro wrote: I answer with Catholic Online (http://www.catholic.org/news/hf/faith/s ... p?id=51077) and the word of the Pope, Pope Francis.
I do not accept Catholic doctrine as definitive nor GODly.

I find both the doctrine of human sin inherited from Adam (implying that GOD creates evil people by this method) and GOD's omniscience as extending to pre-creation (implying as it does that HE knew before HE created those who would end in hell BUT CREATED THEM ANYWAY!! as 2 of the most disturbing blasphemies.
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

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Further, the friendly questions to the Agnostic...

Post #34

Post by Aetixintro »

First, the Agnostic speaks...

We speculate on hypothetical discussions. Maybe the Agnostic's standpoint is like this:

Agnostic: "I've considered the question of God and found that I'm in doubt. I've gone through all the well-known arguments for God and I find something there that's appealing, but I'm not ready to say that I definitely believe in God. No. On the other hand, I lack being convinced by the arguments against the existence of God because I don't dare to take on a cold, dead World. It just lacks the life I experience. So Atheism isn't for me either."

However, in my line of thought, the nature of the questions to the Agnostic may take on a different nature. Rather than discussing the various arguments for and against the existence of God, the Believer may ask kinds of the following questions:

Believer to the Agnostic: "How do you experience religion? What do you think of ethics? The 10 Commandments and the Golden Rule (other ethics for other religions, Torah, whatever)? Do you try to live the ethical life or do you live it? How do you perceive God (or Brahman, Yahweh, Allah, Buddha etc.)? How do you imagine God exists? In us? Outside us? In a God-Universe, by God self? How do you perceive Heaven (or other for other religions)? Would you like to go to Heaven? Do you fear Hell? What is your thought of the soul? Do you care for it? Do you find meaning in religion (Christianity, Judaism, Islam, etc.)? Do you long for the religious salvation?"

And so on? More questions to the Agnostic?

Cheers! :)
I'm cool! :) - Stronger Religion every day! Also by "mathematical Religion", the eternal forms, God closing the door on corrupt humanity, possibly!

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Re: Further, the friendly questions to the Agnostic...

Post #35

Post by postroad »

[Replying to post 34 by Aetixintro]
This agnostic doesn't care about others religions or gods I am so ambivalent I don't even bother to look into them.Therefore I can not say with certainty from the evidence if they are viable or not. Now for Judaism and Christianity I have looked into the evidence presented and come to the conclusion that this God if he exists is neither good nor truthful. I am still not disallowing his existence. Now if the adherents insist that he can only exist as good as truthful then from the evidence presented he does not exist.

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The Religious Slipstream for the Agnostic to Enter

Post #36

Post by Aetixintro »

Just for relating the Slipstream concept to the overall text of the OP:
So I have the idea to introduce the religious Slipstream for the Agnostic in so doing to place a kind of objective demand to the Agnostic, to evaluate the seriousness. There's also the aspect that religiousness by the Slipstream will help the Agnostic to more easily identify one's standing, but this may take a long time. We are in no rush. The Slipstream is then, mostly, intended to drive the Agnostic into the faith of God, no longer doubting the existence of God as has happened with billions of religious people already.

No doubt, the thoughts belong to the Agnostic. There is no pushing as such, only that the discussion is "elevated" beyond the pure existence-and faith-arguments and the "Jesus is here to save you" kind of slogans.

Any good? :)
I'm cool! :) - Stronger Religion every day! Also by "mathematical Religion", the eternal forms, God closing the door on corrupt humanity, possibly!

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Re: Agnostics be aware...

Post #37

Post by Aetixintro »

ttruscott wrote: Doubtful: Romans 10:17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is hearing the word about Christ.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not by works [of ethics or understanding], so that no one can boast.

The word of GOD does not need faith to hear, it comes a as gift and produces faith. Mix this all up with our works of ethics and our own understanding is theo-babble. At least I can't make anything of it yet.
The ethics, yes, the moral life by Matthew 19:16-19
"[16] Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?�
[17]“Why do you ask me about what is good?� Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.�
[18]“Which ones?� he inquired.
Jesus replied, “ ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, [19] honor your father and mother,’c and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’d �" - No need for perfection as such.

And, by the Pope: "Pope suggests it's better to be an atheist than a bad Christian" by CNN (and others), url: http://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/23/world ... sts-again/ - also suggesting living the moral life by the given ethics.

Maybe it's just so that a moral life is destined to generate faith for ascending to Heaven... :)
I'm cool! :) - Stronger Religion every day! Also by "mathematical Religion", the eternal forms, God closing the door on corrupt humanity, possibly!

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