? for those who believe the Catholic Church is evil

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sparkleplenti
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? for those who believe the Catholic Church is evil

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Post by sparkleplenti »

Anyone can chime in here as this is just a question based on a connection that came to light this morning in my reading which reminded me of my experience at my old Baptist church as well.

Not all non-Catholic Christians believe what follows, but there were many at my old Baptist church who did, and countless online websites dedicated to believing the Pope is the anti-christ or anti-messiah and his church is the house of evil.

My question is based on this: If it is the Catholic church your religion broke away from and the major differences are accessibility to the Word and vast reduction or elimination of rituals, but the basis of believing in God, Son and Holy Spirit are in tact... arent; your beliefs the same and therefore misguided in condemning that which was the foundation of your own religion?

Im trying to understand why so many non-Catholics believe this about Catholics (I must qualify I am not a Catholic, I am a believer in One God above us all... there are just many pathways to Him). I also believe in not judging others like that and to me, labeling an entire religion with so many similarities to non-Catholic Christianity as evil, is like naming yourself as the spawn of evil... please help me understand.

I also understand that many of those Christians may not be on this site because those here are more open to exploring and less judgmental perhaps, but was wanting some answers as it truly bothered me when I attended my old Baptist church and the members in Sunday School class would bad talk the neighboring Catholics as if they were back in the days of Luther... and boy they let the Pope have a lashing, too. It disgusted me and I spoke up carefully asking "aren't we supposed to not judge others?" 2 people quietly agreed and the others just stayed quiet...

I no longer attend that church.

Peace to all.... :-k

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wiploc
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Re: ? for those who believe the Catholic Church is evil

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Post by wiploc »

[Replying to sparkleplenti]
My question is based on this: If it is the Catholic church your religion broke away from and the major differences are accessibility to the Word and vast reduction or elimination of rituals, but the basis of believing in God, Son and Holy Spirit are in tact... arent; your beliefs the same and therefore misguided in condemning that which was the foundation of your own religion?
If the Catholic church does evil, then it is evil.

That's not really related to your claim that they have some kind of historical legitimacy.


Im trying to understand why so many non-Catholics believe this about Catholics
Imagine, say, a Baptist who believes that the Catholic church is good and right and is the authentic church of Jesus Christ. What would that make this person's own religion?


... I also believe in not judging others like that and to me, labeling an entire religion with so many similarities to non-Catholic Christianity as evil,
The Catholic church did a lot of evil, so much so that much of Europe broke away from it to try to do better.


is like naming yourself as the spawn of evil... please help me understand.
Try thinking of it a different way. Instead of thinking that protestant churches are the descendants of Catholicism, think of the true church of Jesus rejecting a set of corrupt leaders that tried to lure it astray.



Change of topic: Since you mentioned that you aren't Catholic, I mention that I'm a strong atheist.

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Man_With_A_Plan
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Post by Man_With_A_Plan »

Some Protestants view the papacy as the seat of the antichrist, and they view a lot of Catholic practices as "idolatry." This is where the Protestant hatred comes from.

The secular world generally hates the Catholic Church because they hate everything it stands for. Many anti-Catholics have a misinformed view of what the Catholic Church is. Some of the hatred is based on corruption among some within the Church, and some is due to the abuse towards children. (I might note here that, on average, there are ten times as many teachers who molest students than priests who molest children, but the media loves to hate on the Catholic Church, so more emphasis is on the pedo priests.)

The Muslims hate the Catholic Church because of the Crusades. However, the Muslims hypocritically invaded Turkey and much of the Middle East, North Africa, Sicily, and Spain--and long before the Crusades happened.

The Muslims invaded because they wanted to force and slaughter people into conversion. The Church went on the Crusades to protect the Holy Land. The secular media, being anti-Catholic, never mentions this.

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Re: ? for those who believe the Catholic Church is evil

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Post by puddleglum »

[Replying to post 1 by sparkleplenti]
aren't we supposed to not judge others?
We are not to judge other people. We are commanded to judge the truth of any teaching we hear by comparing it with what the Bible teaches. God commended the Jews of Berea because they did this when Paul preached to them.

Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.
(Acts 17:11 ESV)


If you compare Catholic teaching with the Bible you will find that it is a mixture of Bible truth, pagan beliefs, and human traditions. There are many Catholics who understand the salvation message and are born again Christians. There are many others who have missed the true message because of the false teaching they have gotten through the church.
His invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made.
Romans 1:20 ESV

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Re: ? for those who believe the Catholic Church is evil

Post #5

Post by JehovahsWitness »

sparkleplenti wrote:My question is based on this: If it is the Catholic church your religion broke away from and the major differences are accessibility to the Word and vast reduction or elimination of rituals, but the basis of believing in God, Son and Holy Spirit are in tact... arent; your beliefs the same and therefore misguided in condemning that which was the foundation of your own religion?
While this question does not really apply to me, since my religion is not based on the Catholic Church but on the teachings and ransom of Jesus Christ who, to the best of my knowledge was never a Catholic, I do believe that the institution of the Catholic Church (not the individual members therein, is evil.

As Jesus himself said, it is by examining the "fruit" or the "works ", of people, (what an individual or a group of individuals have done) that exposes them to be True Christians or not and all false religious institutions have, while doing some good works served for the most part to block imho honest individuals from getting to know the true God and his purposes while oftentime persecuting those that wish to do so.

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Tired of the Nonsense
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Re: ? for those who believe the Catholic Church is evil

Post #6

Post by Tired of the Nonsense »

sparkleplenti wrote: Anyone can chime in here as this is just a question based on a connection that came to light this morning in my reading which reminded me of my experience at my old Baptist church as well.

Not all non-Catholic Christians believe what follows, but there were many at my old Baptist church who did, and countless online websites dedicated to believing the Pope is the anti-christ or anti-messiah and his church is the house of evil.

My question is based on this: If it is the Catholic church your religion broke away from and the major differences are accessibility to the Word and vast reduction or elimination of rituals, but the basis of believing in God, Son and Holy Spirit are in tact... arent; your beliefs the same and therefore misguided in condemning that which was the foundation of your own religion?

Im trying to understand why so many non-Catholics believe this about Catholics (I must qualify I am not a Catholic, I am a believer in One God above us all... there are just many pathways to Him). I also believe in not judging others like that and to me, labeling an entire religion with so many similarities to non-Catholic Christianity as evil, is like naming yourself as the spawn of evil... please help me understand.

I also understand that many of those Christians may not be on this site because those here are more open to exploring and less judgmental perhaps, but was wanting some answers as it truly bothered me when I attended my old Baptist church and the members in Sunday School class would bad talk the neighboring Catholics as if they were back in the days of Luther... and boy they let the Pope have a lashing, too. It disgusted me and I spoke up carefully asking "aren't we supposed to not judge others?" 2 people quietly agreed and the others just stayed quiet...

I no longer attend that church.

Peace to all.... :-k
This question depends upon your definition of what is evil. I consider the Jesuit Oath of Induction to be evil.

JESUIT Extreme Oath of Induction
as recorded in the Journals of the 62D Congress, 3d Session of the U.S.
(House Calendar No. 397. Report No. 1523)
Congressional Record---House, 15 Feb. 1913, pp3215-3216



I_______________ , now in the presence of Almighty God, the blessed Virgin Mary, the blessed St. John the Baptist, the Holy Apostles, St. Peter and St. Paul, and all the saints, sacred host of Heaven, and to you, my Ghostly Father, the superior general of the Society of Jesus, founded by St. Ignatius Loyoly, in the pontification of Paul the III, and continued to the present, do by the womb of the Virgin, the matrix of God, and the rod of Jesus Christ, declare and swear that His Holiness, the Pope, is Christ's vice regent and is the true and only head of the Catholic or Universal Church throughout the earth; and that by the virtue of the keys of binding and loosing given His Holiness by my Saviour, Jesus Christ, he hath power to depose heretical kings, princes, States, Commonwealths, and Governments and they may be safely destroyed. Therefore to the utmost of my power I will defend this doctrine and His Holiness's right and custom against all usurpers of the heretical or Protestant authority whatever, especially the Lutheran Church of Germany, Holland, Denmark, Sweden and Norway, and the now pretended authority and Church's of England and Scotland, and the branches of same now established in Ireland and on the continent of America and elsewhere and all adherents in regard that they may be usurped and heretical, opposing the sacred Mother Church of Rome. I do now denounce and disown any allegiance as due to any heretical king, prince or State, named Protestant or Liberal, or obedience to any of their laws, magistrates or officers. I do further declare that the doctrine of the Churches of England and Scotland of the Calvinists, Huguenots, and others of the name of Protestants or Masons to be damnable, and they themselves to be damned who will not forsake the same. I do further declare that I will help, assist, and advise all or any of His Holiness's agents, in any place where I should be, in Switzerland, Germany, Holland, Ireland or America, or in any other kingdom or territory I shall come to, and do my utmost to extirpate the heretical Protestant or Masonic doctrines and to destroy all their pretended powers, legal or otherwise. I do further promise and declare that, notwithstanding I am dispensed with to assume any religion heretical for the propagation of the Mother Church's interest; to keep secret and private all her agents counsels from time to time, as they intrust me, and not divulge, directly or indirectly, by word, writing or circumstances whatever, but to execute all that should be proposed, given in charge, or discovered unto me by you, my Ghostly Father, or any of this sacred order. I do further promise and declare that I will have no opinion or will of my own or any mental reservation whatever, even as a corpse or cadaver (perinde ac cadaver), but will unhesitatingly obey each and every command that I may receive from my superiors in the militia of the Pope and of Jesus Christ. That I will go to any part of the world whithersoever I may be sent, to the frozen regions north, jungles of India, to the centers of civilization of Europe, or to the wild haunts of the barbarous savages of America without murmuring or repining, and will be submissive in all things whatsoever is communicated to me. I do further promise and declare that I will, when opportunity presents, make and wage relentless war, secretly and openly, against all heretics, Protestants and Masons, as I am directed to do, to extirpate them from the face of the whole earth; and that I will spare neither age, sex or condition, and that will hang, burn, waste, boil, flay, strangle, and bury alive these infamous heretics; rip up the stomachs and wombs of their women, and crush their infant's heads against the walls in order to annihilate their execrable race. That when the same cannot be done openly I will secretly use the poisonous cup, the strangulation cord, the steel of the poniard, or the leaden bullet, regardless of the honor, rank, dignity or authority of the persons, whatever may be their condition in life, either public or private, as I at any time may be directed so to do by any agents of the Pope or Superior of the Brotherhood of the Holy Father of the Society of Jesus. In confirmation of which I hereby dedicate my life, soul, and all corporal powers, and with the dagger which I now receive I will subscribe my name written in my blood in testimony thereof; and should I prove false or weaken in my determination may my brethren and fellow soldiers of the militia of the Pope cut off my hands and feet and my throat from ear to ear, my belly opened and sulphur burned therein with all the punishment that can be inflicted upon me on earth and my soul shall be tortured by demons in eternal hell forever. That I will in voting always vote for a Knight of Columbus in preference to a Protestant, especially a Mason, and that I will leave my party so to do; that if two Catholics are on the ticket I will satisfy myself which is the better supporter of Mother Church and vote accordingly. That I will not deal with or employ a Protestant if in my power to deal with or employ a Catholic. That I will place Catholic girls in Protestant families that a weekly report may be made of the inner movements of the heretics. That I will provide myself with arms and ammunition that I may be in readiness when the word is passed, or I am commanded to defend the church either as an individual or with the militia of the Pope. All of which I,_______________, do swear by the blessed Trinity and blessed sacrament which I am now to receive to perform and on part to keep this my oath. In testimony hereof, I take this most holy and blessed sacrament of the Eucharist and witness the same further with my name written with the point of this dagger dipped in my own blood and seal in the face of this holy sacrament.

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/ha ... uction.htm

This document was read into the Congressional Record of the United States in 1913. The Catholic church has disavowed it.



I remember Sparkle Plenty from the old Dick Tracy comic strip, by the way. Her mother was Gravel Gertie, and her father was named B.O. Plenty.
Image "The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this." -- Albert Einstein -- Written in 1954 to Jewish philosopher Erik Gutkind.

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