Former Atheists - What convinced you?

[rikuoamero]

What I'm writing here is for those people who consider themselves to be former atheist i.e. at one point in life, they either lacked a belief in a god of any kind, or actively disbelieved there is a God (there's a difference between the two).
I'm hoping that at least some people who are of this group (and hopefully joined the usergroup called 'Former Atheist' on this site) are/were also skeptical, in that they demanded evidence for religious claims.

My question is - What is it that convinced you? If you were to somehow go back in time and meet your previous, atheist (hopefully skeptic) self, would you or could you use whatever it is that convinced you to convince that version of you? Or would your past self be skeptical and dismissive of what it is you present?

Just to be clear - This isn't restricted to Christians only. You can be a Muslim who considers him/herself former atheist or whatever religion or belief you subscribe to. I want to hear from you.
I also promise NOT to debate in this thread. All I want are responses and your thoughts on this question. I will probably debate elsewhere, but not on this thread. This thread is solely for me to gather information.

[bluegreenearth]

My goal is to back who is most likely to end violence, sickness, hate, famine, destruction of the earth but rather bring peace, end all hate, bring security, and health to all mankind. From my abductive reasoning, it is not mankind that is going to make this happen. Mankind for it's thousands of years of rule hasn't brought an end to these bad things but brought more.

What is your method for determining if the actions you take are not functioning towards achieving the specified goal? Please provide an example of an action you propose we should take towards ending violence, sickness, hate, famine, or destruction of our planet and describe how you will determine if that action is not functioning to accomplish the intended goal.

[2timothy316]

My goal is to back who is most likely to end violence, sickness, hate, famine, destruction of the earth but rather bring peace, end all hate, bring security, and health to all mankind. From my abductive reasoning, it is not mankind that is going to make this happen. Mankind for it's thousands of years of rule hasn't brought an end to these bad things but brought more.

What is your method for determining if the actions you take are not functioning towards achieving the specified goal? Please provide an example of an action you propose we should take towards ending violence, sickness, hate, famine, or destruction of our planet and describe how you will determine if that action is not functioning to accomplish the intended goal.

Since I have decided to follow the path there was an intelligent being to create the first life I dedicated my life to finding what and who that being is. Once I discovered what and who that being is, I searched for what that being's purpose for mankind is. Once I found that then searched for what he wants from me. The answer I have come to that conclusion to and the answer to your question, "please provide an example of an action you propose we should take", is to support the coming government of Jehovah and his Son, Jesus Christ. How do we do that? By following the commandments of Jehovah and imitating the life Jesus Christ. I have learned from thousands of years of mankind's failures that man will not be able to end violence, sickness, hate, famine or the destruction of our planet. Someone else with greater knowledge and superior judgement abilities is going to have to do those things for us. I have given up on mankind's ability to end all the problems in the world but I have not given up on mankind to chose a correct path to save themselves of all these horrible things.

[bluegreenearth]

Since I have decided to follow the path there was an intelligent being to create the first life I dedicated my life to finding what and who that being is. Once I discovered what and who that being is, I searched for what that being's purpose for mankind is. Once I found that then searched for what he wants from me. The answer I have come to that conclusion to and the answer to your question, "please provide an example of an action you propose we should take", is to support the coming government of Jehovah and his Son, Jesus Christ. How do we do that? By following the commandments of Jehovah and imitating the life Jesus Christ. I have learned from thousands of years of mankind's failures that man will not be able to end violence, sickness, hate, famine or the destruction of our planet. Someone else with greater knowledge and superior judgement abilities is going to have to do those things for us. I have given up on mankind's ability to end all the problems in the world but I have not given up on mankind to chose a correct path to save themselves of all these horrible things.

What is your method for determining if the actions you take are not functioning towards achieving the specified goal?

[2timothy316]

Since I have decided to follow the path there was an intelligent being to create the first life I dedicated my life to finding what and who that being is. Once I discovered what and who that being is, I searched for what that being's purpose for mankind is. Once I found that then searched for what he wants from me. The answer I have come to that conclusion to and the answer to your question, "please provide an example of an action you propose we should take", is to support the coming government of Jehovah and his Son, Jesus Christ. How do we do that? By following the commandments of Jehovah and imitating the life Jesus Christ. I have learned from thousands of years of mankind's failures that man will not be able to end violence, sickness, hate, famine or the destruction of our planet. Someone else with greater knowledge and superior judgement abilities is going to have to do those things for us. I have given up on mankind's ability to end all the problems in the world but I have not given up on mankind to chose a correct path to save themselves of all these horrible things.

What is your method for determining if the actions you take are not functioning towards achieving the specified goal?

When my personal choice of action deviates from the commandments and imitating the life Jesus, the quality of my life and the life of those around me suffer. It can very from mild suffering all the way to my death or someone else's death.

An Example: Psalms 104: 14, 15 notes that alcohol in moderation is ok and makes the heart of a man rejoice. Yet drunkenness is extremely bad. It can lead to abusive speech, jail time, violence, and death. One should even avoid being around such people. Certainly not getting into a car with a drunk person. (Proverbs 23:29-33, 1Co 5:11-13, 1Co 6:9-11) Thus if I find myself in jail, ruining my marriage, or killing another person because of my drinking then I know I am not achieving my goal of seeing a better world. If I die in my acts of drunkenness well, it's could be game over, the goal could be unachievable for me.

[bluegreenearth]

When my personal choice of action deviates from the commandments and imitating the life Jesus, the quality of my life and the life of those around me suffer. It can very from mild suffering all the way to my death or someone else's death.

An Example: Psalms 104: 14, 15 notes that alcohol in moderation is ok and makes the heart of a man rejoice. Yet drunkenness is extremely bad. It can lead to abusive speech, jail time, violence, and death. One should even avoid being around such people. Certainly not getting into a car with a drunk person. (Proverbs 23:29-33, 1Co 5:11-13, 1Co 6:9-11) Thus if I find myself in jail, ruining my marriage, or killing another person because of my drinking then I know I am not achieving my goal of seeing a better world. If I die in my acts of drunkenness well, it's could be game over, the goal could be unachievable for me.

So, would it be accurate to say that you would know if your action was not functioning to help you achieve your goal if the observable consequences of your action was contradictory to your intended goal?

[2timothy316]

When my personal choice of action deviates from the commandments and imitating the life Jesus, the quality of my life and the life of those around me suffer. It can very from mild suffering all the way to my death or someone else's death.

An Example: Psalms 104: 14, 15 notes that alcohol in moderation is ok and makes the heart of a man rejoice. Yet drunkenness is extremely bad. It can lead to abusive speech, jail time, violence, and death. One should even avoid being around such people. Certainly not getting into a car with a drunk person. (Proverbs 23:29-33, 1Co 5:11-13, 1Co 6:9-11) Thus if I find myself in jail, ruining my marriage, or killing another person because of my drinking then I know I am not achieving my goal of seeing a better world. If I die in my acts of drunkenness well, it's could be game over, the goal could be unachievable for me.

So, would it be accurate to say that you would know if your action was not functioning to help you achieve your goal if the observable consequences of your action was contradictory to your intended goal?

Not necessarily.
"I have seen something further under the sun, that the swift do not always win the race, nor do the mighty win the battle, nor do the wise always have the food, nor do the intelligent always have the riches, nor do those with knowledge always have success, because time and unexpected events overtake them all." - Ecc 9:11

I could not be drinking and driving but still die or be seriously hurt in a car accident. My actions do not add to saving the world from the horrors it sees everyday. It doesn't matter if I'm alive, dead, doing what I should or doing what I shouldn't. The saving of this world is coming no matter what I do. The only thing we humans can do is ask ourselves, 'do we want to be part of it'. What my actions show is my support for the government that will solve the Earth's horrors. Based on those actions I wish to prove to the ruler of that coming government that I wish to be a citizen of the government that will save mankind. Even if I die, if I kept my goal of obedience to the coming Kingdom of God then death will not keep me from my other goal to see the end of the Earth's problems. I will live again. (Acts 24:15, Rev 21:4)

Up holding God's commandments do have benefits that is for sure. They make my life better and other's lives better too. The blessing from following those commandments can be a measurement of how well a person is doing personally toward their goal of seeing a trouble free Earth. They can't be used as a means to fix Earth's troubles.

[bluegreenearth]

Not necessarily.
"I have seen something further under the sun, that the swift do not always win the race, nor do the mighty win the battle, nor do the wise always have the food, nor do the intelligent always have the riches, nor do those with knowledge always have success, because time and unexpected events overtake them all." - Ecc 9:11

I could not be drinking and driving but still die or be seriously hurt in a car accident. My actions do not add to saving the world from the horrors it sees everyday. It doesn't matter if I'm alive, dead, doing what I should or doing what I shouldn't. The saving of this world is coming no matter what I do. The only thing we humans can do is ask ourselves, 'do we want to be part of it'. What my actions show is my support for the government that will solve the Earth's horrors. Based on those actions I wish to prove to the ruler of that coming government that I wish to be a citizen of the government that will save mankind. Even if I die, if I kept my goal of obedience to the coming Kingdom of God then death will not keep me from my other goal to see the end of the Earth's problems. I will live again. (Acts 24:15, Rev 21:4)

Up holding God's commandments do have benefits that is for sure. They make my life better and other's lives better too. The blessing from following those commandments can be a measurement of how well a person is doing personally toward their goal of seeing a trouble free Earth. They can't be used as a means to fix Earth's troubles.

I understand that you could still be negatively impacted by the actions of other people, but you seem to agree that there are measurable objective consequences for the actions you take. As such, I suspect that you wouldn't continue to take an action if it was demonstrated to have a negative impact on yourself, other people, or the environment. Is that correct?

[2timothy316]

Not necessarily.
"I have seen something further under the sun, that the swift do not always win the race, nor do the mighty win the battle, nor do the wise always have the food, nor do the intelligent always have the riches, nor do those with knowledge always have success, because time and unexpected events overtake them all." - Ecc 9:11

I could not be drinking and driving but still die or be seriously hurt in a car accident. My actions do not add to saving the world from the horrors it sees everyday. It doesn't matter if I'm alive, dead, doing what I should or doing what I shouldn't. The saving of this world is coming no matter what I do. The only thing we humans can do is ask ourselves, 'do we want to be part of it'. What my actions show is my support for the government that will solve the Earth's horrors. Based on those actions I wish to prove to the ruler of that coming government that I wish to be a citizen of the government that will save mankind. Even if I die, if I kept my goal of obedience to the coming Kingdom of God then death will not keep me from my other goal to see the end of the Earth's problems. I will live again. (Acts 24:15, Rev 21:4)

Up holding God's commandments do have benefits that is for sure. They make my life better and other's lives better too. The blessing from following those commandments can be a measurement of how well a person is doing personally toward their goal of seeing a trouble free Earth. They can't be used as a means to fix Earth's troubles.

I understand that you could still be negatively impacted by the actions of other people, but you seem to agree that there are measurable objective consequences for the actions you take. As such, I suspect that you wouldn't continue to take an action if it was demonstrated to have a negative impact on yourself, other people, or the environment. Is that correct?

I wish that were possible. I drive a car which I know is a negative impact on the environment, yet where I live I need a car as I don't have another choice in transportation to help feed my family. Still, what I drive will not remove the problems in the world or help me reach my goal of seeing Earth's problems removed.

[bluegreenearth]

Not necessarily.
"I have seen something further under the sun, that the swift do not always win the race, nor do the mighty win the battle, nor do the wise always have the food, nor do the intelligent always have the riches, nor do those with knowledge always have success, because time and unexpected events overtake them all." - Ecc 9:11

I could not be drinking and driving but still die or be seriously hurt in a car accident. My actions do not add to saving the world from the horrors it sees everyday. It doesn't matter if I'm alive, dead, doing what I should or doing what I shouldn't. The saving of this world is coming no matter what I do. The only thing we humans can do is ask ourselves, 'do we want to be part of it'. What my actions show is my support for the government that will solve the Earth's horrors. Based on those actions I wish to prove to the ruler of that coming government that I wish to be a citizen of the government that will save mankind. Even if I die, if I kept my goal of obedience to the coming Kingdom of God then death will not keep me from my other goal to see the end of the Earth's problems. I will live again. (Acts 24:15, Rev 21:4)

Up holding God's commandments do have benefits that is for sure. They make my life better and other's lives better too. The blessing from following those commandments can be a measurement of how well a person is doing personally toward their goal of seeing a trouble free Earth. They can't be used as a means to fix Earth's troubles.

I understand that you could still be negatively impacted by the actions of other people, but you seem to agree that there are measurable objective consequences for the actions you take. As such, I suspect that you wouldn't continue to take an action if it was demonstrated to have a negative impact on yourself, other people, or the environment. Is that correct?

I wish that were possible. I drive a car which I know is a negative impact on the environment, yet where I live I need a car as I don't have another choice in transportation to help feed my family. Still, what I drive will not remove the problems in the world or help me reach my goal of seeing Earth's problems removed.

Once again, there will always be things that are beyond your ability to control. However, where you do have the ability to choose the action with the most post positive or least negative impact, I presume you would know if you chose incorrectly based on the observable outcomes of your choice. Is that correct?

[2timothy316]

Not necessarily.
"I have seen something further under the sun, that the swift do not always win the race, nor do the mighty win the battle, nor do the wise always have the food, nor do the intelligent always have the riches, nor do those with knowledge always have success, because time and unexpected events overtake them all." - Ecc 9:11

I could not be drinking and driving but still die or be seriously hurt in a car accident. My actions do not add to saving the world from the horrors it sees everyday. It doesn't matter if I'm alive, dead, doing what I should or doing what I shouldn't. The saving of this world is coming no matter what I do. The only thing we humans can do is ask ourselves, 'do we want to be part of it'. What my actions show is my support for the government that will solve the Earth's horrors. Based on those actions I wish to prove to the ruler of that coming government that I wish to be a citizen of the government that will save mankind. Even if I die, if I kept my goal of obedience to the coming Kingdom of God then death will not keep me from my other goal to see the end of the Earth's problems. I will live again. (Acts 24:15, Rev 21:4)

Up holding God's commandments do have benefits that is for sure. They make my life better and other's lives better too. The blessing from following those commandments can be a measurement of how well a person is doing personally toward their goal of seeing a trouble free Earth. They can't be used as a means to fix Earth's troubles.

I understand that you could still be negatively impacted by the actions of other people, but you seem to agree that there are measurable objective consequences for the actions you take. As such, I suspect that you wouldn't continue to take an action if it was demonstrated to have a negative impact on yourself, other people, or the environment. Is that correct?

I wish that were possible. I drive a car which I know is a negative impact on the environment, yet where I live I need a car as I don't have another choice in transportation to help feed my family. Still, what I drive will not remove the problems in the world or help me reach my goal of seeing Earth's problems removed.

Once again, there will always be things that are beyond your ability to control. However, where you do have the ability to choose the action with the most post positive or least negative impact, I presume you would know if you chose incorrectly based on the observable outcomes of your choice. Is that correct?

Yes, the impact is a personal measurement of one is doing the right thing. However, a positive outcome is not always the measurement as to what will get me closer to my goal. A correct choice might end of with a negative impact on me. An incorrect choice might have a temporary positive impact but be deadly long term.

Example: In the 1940's Jehovah's Witness were imprisoned, beaten and murdered for refusing to accept Hitler as their salvation. All they had to do is renounce their God and the Bible by signing a piece of paper saying so. When most refused they were taken to concentration camps. There many died from starvation, disease, exhaustion, exposure and to beatings. 273 died from refusing to join Hitler's army. All of these brave people died to the right thing and they will see the Earth free of such things in their future because of their choices, even though it had a negative impact on them. There is an account of one Witness that did sign the papers and while they did not die in a prison, they did die in the air raids over Germany a couple of years later in a state of denying Jehovah as their God. Will that person see the promised paradise Earth? I don't know.

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/ ... -witnesses