Question for Mormons

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rikuoamero
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Question for Mormons

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Post by rikuoamero »

So a thing recently happened within the LDS church.
LDS leaders declared that gay/lesbian Mormon members are now 'apostates' and that they (meaning LDS priests) cannot bless/confirm/ordain children of said members, unless those children 'disavow' their parents.
This coming Sunday (15th November 2015), there is a mass resignation from the LDS planned.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyat ... lake-city/

Now I'm not entirely sure if the LDS leadership have claimed that this rule was a revelation from God, but let's say it was (can anyone confirm for me if it was?) Assuming that, let's say that on Sunday or sometime shortly after, Mormon leaders come out and say there's a new revelation from God, that this rule is to be scrapped.
Question for Mormons - what credibility do the Mormon leaders have in your eyes, should this happen?
Why is it that God seems to change his rules based on human social pressure? How is it that you, random Joe Blow member of the LDS, know that the leaders of the LDS actually did or are receiving revelations?
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Re: Question for Mormons

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Post by Talishi »

rikuoamero wrote: LDS leaders declared that gay/lesbian Mormon members are now 'apostates' and that they (meaning LDS priests) cannot bless/confirm/ordain children of said members, unless those children 'disavow' their parents.
LGBT folks who want to remain part of an organization that hates them deserve everything that organization dishes out on them.

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Re: Question for Mormons

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Post by nobspeople »

rikuoamero wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:04 am So a thing recently happened within the LDS church.
LDS leaders declared that gay/lesbian Mormon members are now 'apostates' and that they (meaning LDS priests) cannot bless/confirm/ordain children of said members, unless those children 'disavow' their parents.
This coming Sunday (15th November 2015), there is a mass resignation from the LDS planned.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyat ... lake-city/

Now I'm not entirely sure if the LDS leadership have claimed that this rule was a revelation from God, but let's say it was (can anyone confirm for me if it was?) Assuming that, let's say that on Sunday or sometime shortly after, Mormon leaders come out and say there's a new revelation from God, that this rule is to be scrapped.
Question for Mormons - what credibility do the Mormon leaders have in your eyes, should this happen?
Why is it that God seems to change his rules based on human social pressure? How is it that you, random Joe Blow member of the LDS, know that the leaders of the LDS actually did or are receiving revelations?
I'm THANKFULLY not a mormon. But I knew a few and even attended their services (wow :shock: ).
They seemed nice so long as you agreed with them. Otherwise, they didn't seem to care for you or your lives too much at all (with only one exception from my experience).
I don't believe in sin being 'genetic' (aka passed down by the fall of man) - that seems beyond stupid to me.
Religions do stuff to people - some good some bad. This seems to be an example of the 'bad' and totally man-made.
It's fair to note that some (mormons and others) and accused Joey Smith as not only being gay, but also attracted to children. If this is true, it would tend to go with the whole 'anti-gay' movement within mormonim in my eyes.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Question for Mormons

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Post by Difflugia »

nobspeople wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:09 pmIt's fair to note that some (mormons and others) and accused Joey Smith as not only being gay, but also attracted to children. If this is true, it would tend to go with the whole 'anti-gay' movement within mormonim in my eyes.
I think it's easier than that. Mormons are basically just conservative Protestants. They hate homosexuality for the same reasons that conservative Calvinists, Southern Baptists, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Seventh-Day Adventists do.

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Re: Question for Mormons

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Post by nobspeople »

Difflugia wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:59 pm
nobspeople wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:09 pmIt's fair to note that some (mormons and others) and accused Joey Smith as not only being gay, but also attracted to children. If this is true, it would tend to go with the whole 'anti-gay' movement within mormonim in my eyes.
I think it's easier than that. Mormons are basically just conservative Protestants. They hate homosexuality for the same reasons that conservative Calvinists, Southern Baptists, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Seventh-Day Adventists do.
I'm sure. But, aside from souther baptists, the mormons I know (again, save for one) seem to hate gay people more than anything else I've ever seen them get upset over. I see a lot of believers hating gays (and non believers for that matter) but their level of hate seems extreme to me.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Question for Mormons

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Post by Overcomer »

Diffulgia wrote:
Mormons are basically just conservative Protestants.
No, actually, they're not. Protestants believe that God has existed eternally as a Trinity (God the Father, God the Son an God the Holy Spirit), that Jesus is God Incarnate, that he was crucified and rose from the dead, thereby atoning for the sins of humankind with salvation given as a gift to those who accept it in faith.

Mormons believe NONE of the above. They use the same vocabulary -- God, Jesus, Holy Spirit, etc., but mean entirely different things by them. For example, they believe that God was once a man who earned his godhood and that any Mormon man can do the same thing. You won't find that in the Bible, only in Mormon teachings.

Diffulgia wrote:
They hate homosexuality for the same reasons that conservative Calvinists, Southern Baptists, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Seventh-Day Adventists do.
I'm glad you said that Christians hate homosexuality and NOT that Christians hate homosexuals. We hate any sin that prevents a person from living the full, rich life that is available in Christ, but we don't hate people who commit sins for the simple reason that we ALL commit sins and we would be tremendous hypocrites if we disliked people because they weren't sinless. None of us is any better than anybody else, be they heterosexual or homosexual.

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Re: Question for Mormons

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Post by Miles »

Overcomer wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 4:29 pm
I'm glad you said that Christians hate homosexuality and NOT that Christians hate homosexuals.
Err, according to the Encyclopedia Britannica,

"Homosexuality [is] sexual interest in and attraction to members of one’s own sex. The term gay is frequently used as a synonym for homosexual; female homosexuality is often referred to as lesbianism."*

Sexual interest in and attraction to are mental states, and not sexual activities. And it's physical homosexual activities that the bible rails against.

"If a man lies with a man as one lies with woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads" (Leviticus 20:13).
(My emphasis)

So who here is abiding by god's instructions and killing practicing homosexuals? A show of hands will be sufficient. . . . . . . . . . . . . WHAT!! All you Christians are deliberately ignoring your Lord's explicit command?!?

Shame!
Shame!
Shame!

We hate any sin that prevents a person from living the full, rich life that is available in Christ,
But obviously not enough to follow god's orders.



*ALSO:
homosexuality
noun [ U ]
us
/ˌhoʊ.moʊ.sek.ʃuˈæl.ə.t̬i/ uk
/ˌhəʊ.mə.sek.ʃuˈæl.ə.ti/
the quality or fact of being sexually attracted to people of the same sex as you:
Source: Cambridge Dictionary


.

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Difflugia
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Re: Question for Mormons

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Post by Difflugia »

Overcomer wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 4:29 pm
Mormons are basically just conservative Protestants.
No, actually, they're not. Protestants believe that God has existed eternally as a Trinity (God the Father, God the Son an God the Holy Spirit), that Jesus is God Incarnate, that he was crucified and rose from the dead, thereby atoning for the sins of humankind with salvation given as a gift to those who accept it in faith.
The only two things that "Protestants believe" are that they're Christian and neither Catholic nor Orthodox.
Overcomer wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 4:29 pmMormons believe NONE of the above. They use the same vocabulary -- God, Jesus, Holy Spirit, etc., but mean entirely different things by them. For example, they believe that God was once a man who earned his godhood and that any Mormon man can do the same thing. You won't find that in the Bible, only in Mormon teachings.
Broadly, that critique can apply to every sect from another sect's perspective. In practice, Mormons have far more in common with conservative Baptists and Calvinists than any of them have with, say, Episcopalians or liberal Methodists.

What I find funny is that a lot of Christians in general don't actually know the finer points of various Christian doctrines, including the ones that separate their own nominal sect from others. Many of the converts to the LDS Church (and Jehovah's Witnesses and Seventh-Day Adventists, for example) convert when they realize that the Christologies of those churches are closer to the ones they already believed, but didn't realize were considered heretical. I know a number of people whose first accurate exposure to the concept of the Trinity was when it was presented as a contrast by a Mormon or JW. For those that haven't sufficiently been trained over years to accept it, Trinitarian theology can easily appear nonsensical.
Overcomer wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 4:29 pmI'm glad you said that Christians hate homosexuality and NOT that Christians hate homosexuals.
To an extent, you're right, but it's also splitting hairs. My point was that the LDS Church, like other conservative denominations, has enough theological aversion to homosexuality that we don't need to look for some sort of denialism backlash from Joseph Smith's sexual practices. On the other hand (and despite me not mentioning it), plenty of Mormons and other conservative Protestants hate gay people for lots of reasons that are personal as well as theological.
Overcomer wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 4:29 pmWe hate any sin that prevents a person from living the full, rich life that is available in Christ, but we don't hate people who commit sins for the simple reason that we ALL commit sins and we would be tremendous hypocrites if we disliked people because they weren't sinless. None of us is any better than anybody else, be they heterosexual or homosexual.
Christians would also be tremendous hypocrites if they objected to homosexuality more strenuously than they do to, say, cursing, casual dishonesty, or sefishness.

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Re: Question for Mormons

Post #9

Post by nobspeople »

Difflugia wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:59 pm
nobspeople wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:09 pmIt's fair to note that some (mormons and others) and accused Joey Smith as not only being gay, but also attracted to children. If this is true, it would tend to go with the whole 'anti-gay' movement within mormonim in my eyes.
I think it's easier than that. Mormons are basically just conservative Protestants. They hate homosexuality for the same reasons that conservative Calvinists, Southern Baptists, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Seventh-Day Adventists do.
Their reasons may be the same, but I don't see them alike past those basic functions (mormons seem to hate gay people more than protestants except, maybe, souther baptists).
Factually, the mormons I know would balk at being considered protestant and vice verse.
:shock:
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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