Debating Jehovah's Witnesses.

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Elijah John
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Debating Jehovah's Witnesses.

Post #1

Post by Elijah John »

I've been watching Leah Remini's expose on Scientology, and their authoritarian and repressive tactics. It is a "crime" in Scientology to even question their church, (at least publicly) it's doctrines, practices or leaders. Those who do are labeled "suppressive persons".

Likewise, can a Jehovah's Witness get in trouble with their organization if they do the same? That is, if they even question the beliefs and practices of the Watch Tower Society?

For instance, if a JW debating here on this site were to concede a point that their debating opponent makes against the WTS on this debating forum, (it's theology or practice) would there be any punishment, "correction" or sanction from their elders?

If say, a JW were to admit, "yeah, there is no Biblical prohibition against the celebration of birthdays, and I can't see why the WTS prohibits such observances", would that debater get in trouble for publicly questioning a JW practice?

On a similar note, do Jehovah's Witnesses shun those who have left? Say, if a son leaves and the father stays, is that father supposed to cease communication with that "wayward" son, if the son is determined never to come back into the fold?
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

2timothy316
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Re: Debating Jehovah's Witnesses.

Post #11

Post by 2timothy316 »

tam wrote:
2timothy316 wrote: [Replying to post 3 by JehovahsWitness]

That is unless a baptized person writes the branch requesting to no longer be recognized as a Jehovah's Witness or wants to join another religion. Though they have not done any of the other serious sins noted in this thread to request such a thing could be the most serious of all. Denial of Jehovah and Jesus is the worst thing a person can do after being baptized. To promise in prayer that they dedicate their life to Jehovah and break that promise to serve another religion, is very serious. 1 John 2:22-23

Leaving a religion does not mean that one is leaving God or His Son.
There is only one cramped road and one narrow gate.

“Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it.� (Matthew 7:13, 14)

Leave the cramped road and there is only one other road to be on. We can both have an opinion as to who is on the correct road. But every one is allowed their own opinion but no one is allowed their own facts. Time will tell who is correct. Like in Moses' day and Korah revolted against Moses. (Nu 16:18-27). There is a day coming when we will both be holding our fire holder and Jehovah will decide who are his people.
Last edited by 2timothy316 on Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Debating Jehovah's Witnesses.

Post #12

Post by 2timothy316 »

tam wrote:

"Come to Me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me; for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.�
"just as the Christ is head of the congregation...for no man ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cherishes it, just as the Christ does the congregation...In fact, as the congregation is in subjection to the Christ

—Ephesians chapter 5.

"Also, he is before all other things, and by means of him all other things were made to exist, and he is the head of the body, the congregation." Col 1:17

"for if any man does not know how to preside over his own household, how will he care for the congregation of God?" - 1 Tim 3:5

What congregation? Fill that in for us please.

Congregations are not individuals.

Congregation or ekklésia in Greek:
Definition: an assembly, congregation, church; the Church, the whole body of Christian believers.

http://biblehub.com/greek/1577.htm


Jesus said that "I am the fine shepherd". Does a 'fine shepherd' scatter his sheep?
"For you were like sheep going astray, but now you have returned to the shepherd and overseer of your souls." 1 Peter 2:25. Stray sheep are not being shepherded. If a person is alone they are not part of 'the flock of God' (1 PET. 5:2.)

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tam
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Re: Debating Jehovah's Witnesses.

Post #13

Post by tam »

[
quote="2timothy316"]
tam wrote:
2timothy316 wrote: [Replying to post 3 by JehovahsWitness]

That is unless a baptized person writes the branch requesting to no longer be recognized as a Jehovah's Witness or wants to join another religion. Though they have not done any of the other serious sins noted in this thread to request such a thing could be the most serious of all. Denial of Jehovah and Jesus is the worst thing a person can do after being baptized. To promise in prayer that they dedicate their life to Jehovah and break that promise to serve another religion, is very serious. 1 John 2:22-23

Leaving a religion does not mean that one is leaving God or His Son.
There is only one cramped road and one narrow gate.
Yes... this does not contradict anything I said.

Christ is the gate; the 'cramped road' would be the road (or path) one walks directly behind Him, eyes on Him, following Him.



“Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it.� (Matthew 7:13, 14)
Yes.



Peace again to you, and to your household,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

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Re: Debating Jehovah's Witnesses.

Post #14

Post by 2timothy316 »

tam wrote: [
quote="2timothy316"]
tam wrote:
2timothy316 wrote: [Replying to post 3 by JehovahsWitness]

That is unless a baptized person writes the branch requesting to no longer be recognized as a Jehovah's Witness or wants to join another religion. Though they have not done any of the other serious sins noted in this thread to request such a thing could be the most serious of all. Denial of Jehovah and Jesus is the worst thing a person can do after being baptized. To promise in prayer that they dedicate their life to Jehovah and break that promise to serve another religion, is very serious. 1 John 2:22-23

Leaving a religion does not mean that one is leaving God or His Son.
There is only one cramped road and one narrow gate.
Yes... this does not contradict anything I said.

Christ is the gate; the 'cramped road' would be the road (or path) one walks directly behind Him, eyes on Him, following Him.



“Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it.� (Matthew 7:13, 14)
Yes.
That means there is only one teaching. The right teaching is either going off on your own or being part of a group of people that believe the same thing. It can't be both ways. People that go off by themselves are not teaching the same thing. I have talked to many of them. They are no unified group of people. Jesus said his followers 'will all be one'. John 17:21. Tam you are not 'one' in what you teach with others like yourself that go off by themselves.

"Now I urge you, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you should all speak in agreement and that there should be no divisions among you, but that you may be completely united in the same mind and in the same line of thought." 1 Cor 10. You lone folks don't do this. All of the alone people are divided. So your way Tam, according to the Bible is not the narrow gate.

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Re: Debating Jehovah's Witnesses.

Post #15

Post by tam »

Peace to you!
2timothy316 wrote:
tam wrote:

"Come to Me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me; for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.�
"just as the Christ is head of the congregation...for no man ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cherishes it, just as the Christ does the congregation...In fact, as the congregation is in subjection to the Christ

—Ephesians chapter 5.

"Also, he is before all other things, and by means of him all other things were made to exist, and he is the head of the body, the congregation." Col 1:17

"for if any man does not know how to preside over his own household, how will he care for the congregation of God?" - 1 Tim 3:5
Yes... but again, I am not sure what you think from these verses contradicts what I shared. (especially since I shared the words of Christ)

What congregation? Fill that in for us please.
The congregation - or church - is the Body of Christ, made up of His people, all of them having Christ as their head.
Congregations are not individuals.
But the congregation (or church) is made OF individuals.
Congregation or ekklésia in Greek:
Definition: an assembly, congregation, church; the Church, the whole body of Christian believers.

http://biblehub.com/greek/1577.htm
Yes...

Jesus said that "I am the fine shepherd". Does a 'fine shepherd' scatter his sheep?
No. Who ever said that He did?

He gathers His sheep to Him, including those who have been scattered. He goes out and finds any of His lost sheep. He calls His sheep by name. His sheep listen to His voice and follow Him.

"For you were like sheep going astray, but now you have returned to the shepherd and overseer of your souls." 1 Peter 2:25.
Yes. They returned to Christ, the Shepherd and overseer of their souls.
Stray sheep are not being shepherded.


Stray sheep are being searched for, called by name, and gathered to Christ. If they are His sheep, they will listen to His voice and follow Him (their Shepherd).
If a person is alone they are not part of 'the flock of God' (1 PET. 5:2.)
If a person is in Christ, that person is never alone. But one must come to Christ (as He has called them to do) and follow Him. Let HIM guide us where He wants us to be.


I think perhaps you are under the mistaken impression that I have no brothers or sisters in Christ. I do. But I did not know any of them at the start. I knew only Christ and followed Him.

My sheep listen to My voice; I know them, and they follow Me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them out of My hand. My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand. John 10:27-29


All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will never turn away. John 6:37


Of course He has more sheep than just me; they have been gathered to Him the same as He gathered me to Him.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

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Re: Debating Jehovah's Witnesses.

Post #16

Post by 2timothy316 »

tam wrote:
But the congregation (or church) is made OF individuals.
So you are in a congregation then?

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Re: Debating Jehovah's Witnesses.

Post #17

Post by 2timothy316 »

tam wrote:
If a person is alone they are not part of 'the flock of God' (1 PET. 5:2.)
If a person is in Christ, that person is never alone. But one must come to Christ (as He has called them to do) and follow Him. Let HIM guide us where He wants us to be.
But you are alone if you are teaching your own thing, that is not a flock. A flock is a more than 2. He don't guide people to be alone.

"And they continued devoting themselves to the teaching of the apostles, to associating together, to the taking of meals, and to prayers." Acts 2:42.
Does this scripture describe what you do? Nope.

How about this scripture?

“Let us consider one another so as to incite to love and fine works, not forsaking our meeting together.�​—Hebrews 10:24, 25.

This doesn't sound like your teaching either.
Last edited by 2timothy316 on Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Debating Jehovah's Witnesses.

Post #18

Post by tam »

2timothy316 wrote:
tam wrote:
But the congregation (or church) is made OF individuals.
So you are in a congregation then?

Anyone who is in the Body of Christ is in the Church, and has Christ as their head. Because that is what the church is - the Body of Christ, made of people.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

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Re: Debating Jehovah's Witnesses.

Post #19

Post by tam »

2timothy316 wrote:
tam wrote:
If a person is alone they are not part of 'the flock of God' (1 PET. 5:2.)
If a person is in Christ, that person is never alone. But one must come to Christ (as He has called them to do) and follow Him. Let HIM guide us where He wants us to be.
But you are alone if you are teaching your own thing, that is not a flock. A flock is a more than 2.
I do not teach 'my own thing'. I am not the Teacher. Christ is the Teacher. I am merely a witness and a servant of Him.


Peace again to you, and to your household,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

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Re: Debating Jehovah's Witnesses.

Post #20

Post by 2timothy316 »

tam wrote:
2timothy316 wrote:
tam wrote:
But the congregation (or church) is made OF individuals.
So you are in a congregation then?

Anyone who is in the Body of Christ is in the Church, and has Christ as their head. Because that is what the church is - the Body of Christ, made of people.
So that I am clear you are saying 'yes', you're in a congregation.

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