Do JW's examine the nature of the imagery of their sect?

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Do JW's examine the nature of the imagery of their sect?

Post #1

Post by William »

Imagery is a powerful device in which to capture the imaginations of individuals for the purpose of enticing them into supporting that which is imaged.

Every business - secular or religious based - know the importance of imagery in relation to attracting investors/supporters of said business.

Q: What are the kind of people who are attracted to JW imagery, and why do these particular types fill a niche in the market?

The organisation is able to be studied in this light, as an example as to how long it takes for a small business to gain popularity and how long it takes for the business to grow in the hustle-bustle of the market place and what clientele the organisation is attracting which are otherwise not accounted for in said market place.

The image below, is just one of many which are used to attract a particular type of human being with the expectation of getting them to part with money, and the method used to spread this organisations advertising involves getting the clients themselves to promote the business by freely distributing the propaganda door to door, not even having to pay said clients for the service, as the clients believe they are doing so for the Christian sects claimed leader, "Jehovah", and therefore willingly promote the JW.Org for free, based upon the promise of reward "When Jesus (Jehovah's representative) returns" - or some similar type promise. "Pay in this life - get your reward for service in the next"

With images of what that promised next life will be like.

Image

There are of course many types of imagery used by this organisation, which gives a clear indication of the types of individuals that the business is focused upon attracting, to build the numbers and maintain their piece of the action in the marketplace.

The image above, represents a white middle-class nuclear family walking hand in hand toward an idyllic scene, appropriately costumed in acceptable garb, and no other humans around.

Q: What does this image invoke in the individual who identifies with it?
Q: Who is most likely going to identify with it?

Obviously the JW organisation is reaching out to white middle class family orientated folk as one type of customer in which they feel their message will take hold and earn money from.

I, for one, can bear witness to the fact that white middle class people representing the organization are predominately the ones knocking on my door, trying to get me to buy into the JW.orgs imagery.

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Re: Do JW's examine the nature of the imagery of their sect?

Post #31

Post by JehovahsWitness »

William wrote:
Q: What are the kind of people who are attracted to JW imagery....?
♦ANSWER People who love animals.

VIDEO TESTIMONY: Cory Wells: I Wanted "the Real Life"

Image
SOURCE: https://tv.jw.org/#en/mediaitems/VODInt ... 08_1_VIDEO


William wrote:
Q: What are the kind of people who are attracted to JW imagery....?

♦ANSWER People who love the planet.

Image
SOURCE https://tv.jw.org/#en/mediaitems/VODBib ... wc_2_VIDEO

William wrote:
Q: What are the kind of people who are attracted to JW imagery....?
♦ANSWER People that love colour and beauty.

Image
SOURCE https://tv.jw.org/#en/mediaitems/VODBib ... wc_2_VIDEO

William wrote:
Q: What are the kind of people who are attracted to JW imagery....?
♦ANSWER People that long for peace, security and social justice

Image


Go to other posts related to THE PARADISE EARTH, .HEAVEN, and GOD’S KINGDOM


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RELATED POSTS


Are there any images on the JW website that might appeal to homosexuals and people that lead "alternative lifestyles"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 726#960726

What is PARADISE in Jehovah's Witness terminology?
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Do JW's examine the nature of the imagery of their sect?

Post #32

Post by William »

[Replying to post 30 by JehovahsWitness]
Jehovahs Witnesses absolutely reject the view that people with alternative life styles have no place in our imagergy or that we should exclude images that may be interpreted as being of gay or lesbian people from being published.
So lets go with that argument at face value.
No manner of person is excluded from the JW Org.
This makes great business sense, because $ are $ wherever the $ come from, heterosexuals, gays, lesbians, hippies, gang members etc are all potential customers.

Where in the "New Earth" imagery are these types obviously portrayed for all to see?

Remember dear reader, the focal belief of the JW adherents is 'The New Earth" aka "Paradise" - to which all faithful JW proselytizers are promised as their future reward, for services rendered.

If the member can show the reader such images, she should indeed, DO so.

Otherwise, while it might be a matter of fact that the organisation does not exclude images that may be interpreted as being of gay or lesbian people from being published (which - the reader might note - yet again is something which was never argued in this thread as being the case anyway) this does not mean that including such images is necessarily for the point of showing that the organization is without its bigotry (which HAS been argued in this thread - twice already)

It appears that the member cannot help herself but create strawman arguments in an effort to lead the reader in a direction other than the one in which my arguments are focused, as per the thread topic.

So the argument I have been making isn't that the organisation excludes images that may be interpreted as being of gay or lesbian people from being published, but that the organization does not consider such people to be - shall we say - 'worthy' of a place in the paradise they believe is their reward in an undisclosed future time.

If so, then included or excluded from the orgs imagery aside, the org itself excludes these types as full members, unless these people refrain from homosexual/lesbian practices. in other words "You can be gay and be an acceptable member of the organization, but you cannot practice sexuality with others who are also gay, or for that matter even outwardly show you are gay by holding hands or kissing etc...with members of your own gender.

Evidence that this is the actual case can be found by the reader, in fairly large quantity on the internet.

[yt]rpLmSLGV-e8[/yt] as one such example.
Indeed many people that presently have rather unconventional dress styles or who live in same sex relationships are the very people who want an end to war, animal cruelty and racial predjudice, which is the essence of the bible hope.
The reader please note that the statement above - while factual - has nothing to do with the argument I am making regarding the JW organization and bigotry.

The imagery most often supplied by the organization to do with its members attire is ordinarily anything BUT unconventional, and by many accounts, same sex relationships are not permitted by the membership...one cannot BE a member of this organization AND have a same sex relationship. This is no doubt exactly WHY the imagery related to "The New Earth" does not include such.

Image
As evidenced by the images above and testimonies, the JW images reflect this fact.
The reader will note that a picture of The Black Power Movement of the 1960s and 1970s is accompanied by no data, and although it might well provide evidence that the organization does indeed use imagery of non-JW members, that is neither here nor there in regard to the thread topic and subsequent arguments I have been making. It is simply more strawmanning by the member to attempt to direct the readers attention away from what it is I am arguing.

Tsk tsk... [-X

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Re: Do JW's examine the nature of the imagery of their sect?

Post #33

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 32 by William]

Your video is not relevant it makes no mention of JW artwork. This thread is ...
William wrote: Studying the imagery of the Jehovahs Witnesses
Your video is not produced by the Jehovah's Witnesses nor is it a critique on their artwork.


Ignored,


JW
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Re: Do JW's examine the nature of the imagery of their sect?

Post #34

Post by JehovahsWitness »

William wrote:
The reader will note that a picture of The Black Power Movement of the 1960s and 1970s is accompanied by no data
The data for the image above is in the Source: It is a screenshot from the video sourced produced by JWs
JehovahsWitness wrote:

Screenshot from docudrama for the life story of Rafika Morris:
Image
SOURCE https://tv.jw.org/#en/mediaitems/VODInt ... 14_1_VIDEO

PERSONAL TESTIMONY Rafika Morris: I Wanted to Fight Injustice
SOURCE https://tv.jw.org/#en/mediaitems/VODInt ... 14_1_VIDEO




JEHOVAH'S WITNESS









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Does the Jehovah's Witness artwork present a "racially" SEGREGATED paradise?
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Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:00 am, edited 3 times in total.
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Do JW's examine the nature of the imagery of their sect?

Post #35

Post by JehovahsWitness »

William wrote:
Thus the imagery shows us - along with the explanations of the imagery, that the JW organisation as a business is attracting a certain type of [person]...No Gays or Lesbians...

QUESTION What kind of people would identify with the JW images below? Who are the Jehovah's Witnesses appealing to with images such as these?


SOURCE Watchtower January 2017 p.8
Image


Reposted to include SOURCE reference.



I will remind you that ...
William wrote: The purpose of this thread is to explore ALL of the imagery as it is posted, with in mind to understand the type of market niche the JW organization is after in relation to the individuals it attracts through said imagery.
Emphasis MINE


The information in this thread illustrates that the Jehovahs Witnesses are are indeed attempting to attract ALL SORTS of people regardless of their dress style, skin colour social status or sexual orientation, and that without prejudice or discrimination.


What KIND of people are the Jehovah's Winteness images made to attract?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 729#960729
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Do JW's examine the nature of the imagery of their sect?

Post #36

Post by William »

[Replying to post 33 by JehovahsWitness]
Your video is not produced by the Jehovah's Witnesses nor is it a critique on their artwork.


Ignored
No surprises there.

The reader will note that the JW proselyte was keen to claim that the organization was not bigoted in regard to its imagery, and the type of individuals such imagery attracts, and we can add to that list "Those who ignore said bigotry"...

...the claim by the JW proselyte was that the organization does not discriminate - in this case - against gays. A quick internet search reveals to the researcher that the claim from the JW proselyte is bogus as per the evidence of the video.

One will most likely find that in interaction with any JW proselytes, the underhanded tactic used by them is to willfully ignore, create strawman arguments to attempt to redirect the conversation and demonize those who disagree...all as self proclaimed "witnesses of Jehovah."

Note too, the next two posts by the JW proselyte further illustrate the kind of folk the organization attract with its imagery are those willing to ignore facts as presented.

I think the astute reader can agree, my points about the bigotry involved with this organisation have been clearly shown as correct.
JW proselytes clearly do NOT examine the nature of the imagery of their sect, but rather WILLFULLY IGNORE any opportunity to do so.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Next I would like to examine the JW sect imagery which focuses the end of the world - and compare it with the 'New Earth imagery' to see what can be found there, in relation to attracting adherents into supporting the organizations niche market.__

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Re: Do JW's examine the nature of the imagery of their sect?

Post #37

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 36 by William]

Did you have another image you would like to comment on, as this thread is dedicated to the examination of JW imagery? If so feel free to post it. Although the lead post focuses on ONE image I do believe the purpose of the thread is to ...
William wrote: The purpose of this thread is to explore ALL of the imagery as it is posted...
Emphasis MINE

I'm happy to continue to post and analyse more images if you have a JW image you would like a comment on feel free to actually produce one.

There are rules against derailling threads so I will be respecting the topic of discussion.

JW
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Re: Do JW's examine the nature of the imagery of their sect?

Post #38

Post by JehovahsWitness »

ARGUMENT FROM SILENCE

William wrote:
The bigotry mentioned, has to do with what is lacking/missing in the artwork


IT'S NOT WHAT YOU SAID...
  • A famous cliche, which figures in many a maritial dispute, deals with "arguments from silence", essentially accusing someone of malice based on tone and intonation. While visual clues and intonation are indeed a legitimate means of communication, arguing "bigotry"* from what is NOT in an image is a particularly tenuous position to take.

[ * ]A BIGOT A person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices** especially : one who regards or TREATS the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigot

**prejudice : Preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.
NOTE [A] Disagreement does not of itself constitute "bigotry". Many would disagree with the Jehovah's Witness beliefs but few of such number would describe themselves as "bigots".


#1. DOES ABSENCE INDICATE BIGOTRY
  • It is extremely unreasonable to (and somewhat ludicrous) to suggest that something being absence is automatically indication of bigotry. There may be a host of reasons why certain elements are not in a picture that have nothing to do with hating the absentee, not least being the context. Would the woeful lack of elephants in an illustred cookbook indicate the hatred of elephants ? Can a booklet on childbirth depicting only women giving birth reasonably be described as hateful propaganda against men? Does the picture of your third grade class means hatred towards everyone in the fourth grade? Most reasonable people understand proving hate involves more than pointing to what is not there.
#2. ARE STANDARDS EVIDENCE OF BIGOTRY
  • Is the application of standard in itself evidence of hatred? While universal inclusivity may be that holy grail for some it is in reality as unreasonable and untenable as issuing a driving licence to everybody on earth, even of they happen to be three years old. The absence of visually impaired airline pilots in a promotional booklet, does not express an unreasonable hatred for the blind it illustrates the application of a reasonable standard by a recognised authority. Preselection based just and reasonable standards applied without prejudice is both necessary and loving and anyone that argues otherwise might also like to explain if they would let their child be operated on by the janitor because he happens to be wearing a white coat.
So leaving aside the highly subjective question of interpreting the invisible (what is not in the image) we can more reasonably ask the more measurable question, is there any evidence JW have produced images that encourage hateful TREATMENT of minorities. This question will be examined in the post below....




JEHOVAH'S WITNESS


FURTHER READING Prejudice and Discrimination ”Getting to the Roots
https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines ... the-Roots/
To learn more please go to other posts related to...

PREJUDICE , HATE and ...RACIAL UNITY
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Do JW's examine the nature of the imagery of their sect?

Post #39

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 38 by JehovahsWitness]


QUESTION #1: Is there any evidence JW have produced images that encourage hateful TREATMENT of minorities?
There exist some extreme Christian groups that picket events with billboords that display slogans expressing hatred for homosexuals and a desire they die. Are there any images encouraging such behaviours on the JW website?
ANSWER There is absolutely no evidence that there are any images that encourage people to mistreatment act violently against anyone, including gays or lesbians. Jehovah's Witnesses the world over are know to be respectful people that treat all people kindly regardless of their race, social status style or percieved sexual orientation and this is reflected in their artwork.
  • * JWs believe that individuals with different worldviews and lifestles have the right to enjoy the same rights and liberties as they do, so they cannot be rightfully described as "intolerant". They are non political so they do not participate in, or support any anti (or pro) gay movements.
QUESTION #2 Do illustration of scriptures describing God's judgement of the "incorrigible wicked" constitute incitement to violence?
  • ANSWER No. No more than a picture of a Judge passing down a sentence or a policeman lawfully arresting a criminal does. Reasonable people are not incited to break the law by images of the rightful exercise of legitimate authority. Christians have not been authorized to judge anyone, rather they are charged to show love even to those that hate them. There is nothing in the JWs literature that incites anyone to do otherwise.
QUESTION #3 Is it not hateful to exclude those that engage in certain behaviours from bible illustrations ?

JW




FURTHER READING Prejudice and Discrimination ”Getting to the Roots
https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines ... the-Roots/
To learn more please go to other posts related to...

PREJUDICE , HATE and ...RACIAL UNITY
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Tue May 18, 2021 10:31 pm, edited 12 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Do JW's examine the nature of the imagery of their sect?

Post #40

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 39 by JehovahsWitness]

BIGOTED BIBLE?
That said all pictures of paradise on the Jehovah's Witness website are essentially illustrating (albeit with some poetic licence) passages in the bible. The JWs do not permit themselves the liberty of including elements that cannot be supported with scripture.

#1. Whether scripture should be illustrated at all or banned as "hate speech" is a debate for another thread (or ones congressman), the fact is that the bible writers are clear that those that refuse to respect bible standards will have no place in paradise regardless of their colour, social statues, bank balance, marital status or sexual orientation.

1 CORINTHIANS 6:9-10

Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom.
If anyone believes bible writers were thus expressing bigotry, rather than voicing the legitimate mandate of a recognised authority (see post #38 above for details), they can take that up with the writers themselves.


#2. As for the illustrators "attitude" , short of exercising mind reading capacities, there is no way anyone but the individual concerned can say for sure what they are, much less to PROVE what they are given the number of variables involved. One would have to occupy a near godlike position to make absolute statements about the attitude of all those that see, interpret or promote said illustrations. While any poster is welcome to share theirs, feelings are not debatable, so there is no reason to respond to emotional rants or unfounded accusations that about the feelings or attitudes of of others.
#3.

The stated purpose of this thread is to analyse JW images; the only objective debate on this point then can be whether the JWs accurately illustrate scripture (NOT whether one accepts biblical authority or whether or not likes or dislikes what the bible has to say about any given topic, since that is simply a matter of opinion and not debatable).
QUESTION #4: Does this mean that the bible message is destined for only a select type of person?
  • ♦ANSWER No, the message is universal and appeals to people of all walks of life, who are willing to conform to God's standards. It is a complete fallacy to suggest that no gays and lesbians figure in this number. It is for this reason that Jehovah's Witness imagery appeals to such a wide variety of people. In doing so they thus cannot legitimately be charged with being prejudiced which is a basic component of bigotry. In short they do not decide before hand that a certain type of person will not find the images appealing or want to make the needed changes to be In paradise as described in the bible and illustrated accurately in their literature.

    **prejudice : Preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.

    For more on this point please see the post : Are there any images on the JW website that might appeal to homosexuals and people that lead "alternative lifestyles"?
    http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 771#960771

    What KIND of people are the Jehovah's Winteness images made to attract?
    http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 729#960729
CONCLUSION The absence of same sex couples showing affection for each other in a picture of a biblical paradise does not reflect hatred or a bigotry towards such people, it merely displays a contexual coherence (see post #38 above for details) and a desire to accuratly illustrate bible passages. Those that disagree are of course free to do so.


JW
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http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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