Open question for all atheists

Viridis · Post by **Viridis** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:23 am

I hope that I'm posting this in the correct area. I didn't want to put this in a debate forum, because I'm not really stating a position for debate. Rather, I'm trying to increase my own understanding of this issue.

I fully accept evolution as being the mechanism whereby all species came into existence. I am not trying to argue a point for intelligent design. The one area that I still find difficult to comprehend is how intelligence can arise from non-intelligent matter. Atoms and sub-atomic particles do not possess intelligence (at least, not that science has postulated); the laws of physics do not possess intelligence; the forces that govern the universe (strong & weak nuclear, electro-magnetic, etc.) do not possess intelligence. How do these non-intelligent agents combine to create intelligence?

I'm hoping that some people can point me in the direction of websites, books, etc. that deal with this issue. As I said, I'm trying to increase my understanding before taking a position.

McCulloch · Post by **McCulloch** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:35 am

The key to understanding this it to rid yourself of always thinking discretely.
Non-living mater. Viruses. Bacteria. Algae. Plants. Sponges. Simple multi-cellular animals. Starfish. Flatworms. Roundworms. Molluscs. Insects. Fish. Amphibians. Reptiles. Birds. Mammals. Primates. Apes. Humans.
Did intelligence suddenly appear somewhere in the chain? Or did it gradually develop from something similar to intelligence but much simpler?

I would recommend reading the Ancestors' Tale by Dawkins.

AClockWorkOrange · Post by **AClockWorkOrange** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:21 am

"intelligence" is basically the ability of a brain to decipher information taken in from the world on a complicated level.

We happen to be the creature who is able to interact with the world on the most complicated level.

So, if you want to understand the development of our intelligence, study to growth and chemical evolution of the human brain.

Furrowed Brow · Post by **Furrowed Brow** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:00 am

Hi Viridis

Well there is intelligent behavior and thinking. All organised behavior in nature can be described as intelligent to some degree. The bee dance for example, where bees provide information to other bees as to where go find the pollen.

I think you probably mean thinking. This is a very problematic area. Short answer: we don't really know how or by what mechanisms humans think. Try Roger Penrose Emperors New Mind.

AClockWorkOrange · Post by **AClockWorkOrange** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:31 pm

I was just talking about levels of intelligence.

Viridis · Post by **Viridis** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:02 am

My thanks to all who replied. I will look into the books suggested as soon as I have a chance, maybe during winter break. I am fascinated by the question of intelligence, not only in humans but in "lower" life forms as well. Furrowed Brow mentioned the dance of the honey bee; I also wonder at the intelligence of leaf-cutter ants, which harvest leaves to provide a growth medium for a fungus that grows in their colonies. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they are the only creatures besides humans who engage in agriculture. Such seeming intelligence in the aggregate, yet so little on the individual level.

I have also read somewhere about tiny structures inside individual neurons that are like nanotubes of carbon which vibrate at the quantum level. Has anyone else heard of this?

Again, many thanks to those who took the time to respond.

Goat · Post by **Goat** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:43 am

Viridis wrote:My thanks to all who replied. I will look into the books suggested as soon as I have a chance, maybe during winter break. I am fascinated by the question of intelligence, not only in humans but in "lower" life forms as well. Furrowed Brow mentioned the dance of the honey bee; I also wonder at the intelligence of leaf-cutter ants, which harvest leaves to provide a growth medium for a fungus that grows in their colonies. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they are the only creatures besides humans who engage in agriculture. Such seeming intelligence in the aggregate, yet so little on the individual level.

I have also read somewhere about tiny structures inside individual neurons that are like nanotubes of carbon which vibrate at the quantum level. Has anyone else heard of this?

Again, many thanks to those who took the time to respond.

That is the theory of Penrose. I don't think there is any evidence of that yet... and it is considered a 'far out concept'.

McCulloch · Post by **McCulloch** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:21 pm

Viridis wrote:I have also read somewhere about tiny structures inside individual neurons that are like nanotubes of carbon which vibrate at the quantum level. Has anyone else heard of this?

goat wrote:That is the theory of Penrose. I don't think there is any evidence of that yet... and it is considered a 'far out concept'.

More of an hypothesis than a theory.