Former Christians

[McCulloch]

I guess i never paid any attention to where your ID says "former christian." As a former christian, what was the Holy Spirit to you?

I think that there are two questions here.
What was the Holy Spirit to you when you were considered to be a Christian?
What is the Holy Spirit to you now that you a no longer a Christian?

[k-nug]

Hmm, I'm not sure who this post is intended for, But it looks as though it's been sitting a while. I'll take a crack at it.

As a Mormon early in life, I always had the impression that the Holy Ghost was a spirit kinda just floating around, behaving as God's messenger, it was the holy spirit that told you when you were doing something wrong, i.e. the emotions of shame, regret, guilt, etc... (That is not necessarily Mormon doctrine, it was just the impression I got.)

Early in my 20's as a fundamentalist Christian in a full gospel denomination (AG) the Holy Spirit took on a more important role, as I learned about the Trinity and the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. I would hear all these preachers start with 'and God told me....' and I assumed that must be the Holy Spirit actually talking to these people. I was very excited to be able to hear the voice of God. I can remember spending literally hours in prayer humbling myself before God for Him to communicate with me.

After a while I decided that God must be ignoring me because I was not Baptized in the Holy Spirit. So after even more prayer, fasting and study, I decided it was time. I was alone, I decided not to be in church, influenced by anything. I already understood the very powerful emotions that were inflamed by things like church prayer and music. So I was in my apartment alone, very scared and praying into the night. I did as the church practiced, on my knees I prayed to receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit. All I can say now is that my eagerness to believe and my desire to talk to God were so strong that I had an emotional experience and was 'baptized in the Holy Spirit'. I went from being a believer to a devout bible thumping wannabee preacher.

I could 'speak in tongues', and did as often as I could. I truly believe I had been given the ability to speak in the language of Angels. (Some claim that some of the Tongues are dead human languages.) I became much more involved with the church, joining the church band and participating in all church functions and trips. I can remember being at work, delivering pizzas and just praying the entire time, enjoying this new 'gift' of tongues.

I was as good a Christian as one could be. We would go to these so called 'revivals' in this big mega-church and the emotions were running so deep and strong I was like a moth to a flame. We starting going to this church every Wed. (why God couldn't 'move' in our church was a mystery to me.) Every week the preacher would come around and do that 'falling out' thing where he would pray over people and they would be 'overcome' by the Holy Spirit and fall down, sometimes going into what seemed to be epileptic fits.

Although I had no desire to fall over, I did wonder how cool it would be to be so touched by the presence of God that your body could no longer stand in His presence. (That's how the Church explains it anyway.) I had seen this happen for a month or two at this church before we were sitting in a place the preacher would come to. Other people around me fell out, crying and everything, but when the preacher came around to me, and started to pray, nothing happened. I could feel his hand gently trying to push me down, but I was waiting for God to do that. After church, I felt a little depressed, not knowing what I had done wrong.

This I think was the first 'chink' in my armor of Christianity. I still had not heard from God. I prayed so much, believed so blindly without question that this failure of mine to commune with God led me to question exactly what it was that was not right. For the first time I let the thought in that it was not me that was doing something wrong.

To make the rest of the story not-so-long, question after question was not resolved, and over a 1 year period reconciled that there is no magic man in the clouds, no Prize for Best Behavior, no one on the Other End Of The Line.

As for after my conversion to atheism, I believe the Holy Spirit to be at best a strong emotional response to the stimulus of Church. At worst it's a fraud of Religion.

The funny thing is, even after I have rejected the Holy Spirit, the one unforgivable sin in the Bible, I can still speak in tongues in the exact same way as when I was a bible-nut. Go figure.

[graphicsguy]

The funny thing is, even after I have rejected the Holy Spirit, the one unforgivable sin in the Bible, I can still speak in tongues in the exact same way as when I was a bible-nut. Go figure.

Say what? Are you serious? I find that...shocking...amazing...talk about inexplicable...

Anyway, k-nug, my story is similar to yours. However, I need to point out that I was never able to speak in tongues no matter how often nor how long I prayed for it or had others pray for it for me. People would be telling me, "Just say the first words that pop in your mind."

Finally, one night I did. I'm fairly certain I just made up the words...all I could say was "God, Jesus, Holy Spirit" in some other language (so "God" told me). However, the worst part is that I eventually gave that up because I believed that I had been given another "gift". I believed that I could converse directly with God and did that on a continuous basis for years...it almost drove me insane.

I don't know why I could never speak in tongues. I am wondering if it had something to do with my hormone deficiency...??? Or maybe it was just the fact that I refused to say anything unless I knew what it meant.

[john_anthony_gonzalez]

The funny thing is, even after I have rejected the Holy Spirit, the one unforgivable sin in the Bible, I can still speak in tongues in the exact same way as when I was a bible-nut. Go figure.

Say what? Are you serious? I find that...shocking...amazing...talk about inexplicable...

Anyway, k-nug, my story is similar to yours. However, I need to point out that I was never able to speak in tongues no matter how often nor how long I prayed for it or had others pray for it for me. People would be telling me, "Just say the first words that pop in your mind."

Finally, one night I did. I'm fairly certain I just made up the words...all I could say was "God, Jesus, Holy Spirit" in some other language (so "God" told me). However, the worst part is that I eventually gave that up because I believed that I had been given another "gift". I believed that I could converse directly with God and did that on a continuous basis for years...it almost drove me insane.

I don't know why I could never speak in tongues. I am wondering if it had something to do with my hormone deficiency...??? Or maybe it was just the fact that I refused to say anything unless I knew what it meant.

i never spoke in tongues and i dont have a hormone deficiency.
Speaking in tongues was used to be a sign to unbelievers
the bible itself says speaking in tounges is the least important of the spiritual gifts
and is only to be used when their are people to interpret.

and one never loses the holy spirit after they reject christ

[graphicsguy]

i never spoke in tongues and i dont have a hormone deficiency.

Well, I never said it was a fact. I was wondering if it could be.

Speaking in tongues was used to be a sign to unbelievers

Many Christians believe you aren't saved unless you are able to speak in tongues.

the bible itself says speaking in tounges is the least important of the spiritual gifts and is only to be used when their are people to interpret.

Well, hardly any church follows that regulation these days.

and one never loses the holy spirit after they reject christ

That doesn't make the least amount of sense...except when I take into account that you believe people are still saved. Man, I am so tired of hearing so many different doctrines. Making a wonder religion confuses people.

As to the "Holy Spirit" I'm beginning to think there must be some physical reason for the "tongues" ability.

[john_anthony_gonzalez]

i never spoke in tongues and i dont have a hormone deficiency.

As to the "Holy Spirit" I'm beginning to think there must be some physical reason for the "tongues" ability.

So are you saying its physical and not spiritual, maybe peer pressure's apart of it

[graphicsguy]

So are you saying its physical and not spiritual,

I am not saying that it is, but I do consider the possibility highly likely...especially if someone like k-nug can still speak in tongues even after rejecting all he used to believe. I'm going to do some research on it because my interest is peaked now.

maybe peer pressure's apart of it

Actually, I don't doubt that in the least. Especially amongst very emotionally-charged groups such as teenagers.

[john_anthony_gonzalez]

Some denomination believe that you never lose the holy spirit, my denomination being one of them.

[seventil]

Hmm, I'm not sure who this post is intended for, But it looks as though it's been sitting a while. I'll take a crack at it.

<--- story --->

A very interesting story, k-nug. I learned much about you reading this post.

I have one question regarding your "conversion" to atheism:

Did you ever consider that the "model" of Christianity you were indoctrinated in to be at fault? What I mean is; what if all of that stuff you wanted to experience wasn't suppose to be real? It's easy to get misled by an organization and fall under a spell of what you should and should not experience as a Christian, as you've said nicely. Have you considered the possibility of perhaps those things that made you reject Christianity were the core of the problem?

The funny thing is, even after I have rejected the Holy Spirit, the one unforgivable sin in the Bible, I can still speak in tongues in the exact same way as when I was a bible-nut. Go figure.

Your rejection of the Holy Spirit isn't "Unforgivable". The verse you are referring to has no clear meaning in theology. I would consider your rejection of Christianity merely one of circumstance and personal conviction based on certain ideals.

[seventil]

i never spoke in tongues and i dont have a hormone deficiency.
Speaking in tongues was used to be a sign to unbelievers
the bible itself says speaking in tounges is the least important of the spiritual gifts
and is only to be used when their are people to interpret.

Hi john,

Could you reference where in the Bible it says that? I'm curious. Thanks.