Jews as a Race?

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JoeyKnothead
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Jews as a Race?

Post #1

Post by JoeyKnothead »

I know I'm gonna sound racist here, that is most certainly NOT my intent, but dangitall I can't put this together in a better fashion...

In another thread I see that Jewish folks don't consider themselves a race. As Judaism is a theology / philosophy, it may include folks as diverse as humanity itself, on that there can be no argument.

What I wonder though, is the deal where a person born to a Jewish mother is considered Jewish. Doesn't this imply a race?

I realize Wikipedia is not the be all and end all here, but I searched it for "Jewish Race" specifically, and was redirected to...
Wikipedia: Jews wrote: The Jews (Hebrew: יְהוּדִי�‎ "Yehudim" IPA: jɛhu�di�m), also known as the Jewish people, are a nation and ethnoreligious group originating in the Israelites or Hebrews of the Ancient Near East. The Jewish ethnicity, nationality, and religion are strongly interrelated, as Judaism is the traditional faith of the Jewish nation.[6][7][8] Converts to Judaism, whose status as Jews within the Jewish ethnos is equal to those born into it, have been absorbed into the Jewish people throughout the millennia.
Doesn't "ethnoreligious" indicate such as "Some Jews are of a race", while leaving open the fact that some Jewish members are of other races?

I swear I don't mean to be insulting, but I think of some of the physical stereotypes ('characters' in biology speak), and let's be real, there is some small inkling that we could identify a person as "jewish" (small 'j' to remove religion/philosophy) by some of these physical stereotypes (agreeing that it's not 100% accurate or even close to it). Is this where we differentiate between Jew, and Hebrew? I really don't know, so please don't hate on me.

Is there a particular issue with considering at least some Jews as being of a Jewish race - especially where there is no nefarious intent?

Again, I'm sorry if I come across as racist, and hopefully this discussion can be enlightening to myself and others.

RightKnowledge999
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Re: Jews as a Race?

Post #11

Post by RightKnowledge999 »

cnorman18 wrote:
RightKnowledge999 wrote:
In Order To Answer Your Question Their A Few Question Must Be Answer First In Order To Get To The Facts Ok . Thats If You Really What The Facts ? Ok

IF I Can Make A Suggestion Let Deal With The The Language In Which The Scription Were Written In Shall We It Only Fair Right . This Way There Won't Be Any Play On Words Ok . So The First Question Is . ( 1 ) What Is The Meaning Of The Word Jew And Where It Come From ?

I'll A Wait For Your Answer , Or Maybe Some One/ Else Has The Answer Ok . It Is Better For Other To Give Their Point Of View .Right
Jew (joo)
n.
1. An adherent of Judaism as a religion or culture.
2. A member of the widely dispersed people originally descended from the ancient Hebrews and sharing an ethnic heritage based on Judaism.
3. A native or inhabitant of the ancient kingdom of Judah.

[Middle English Jeu, from Old French giu, from Latin Idaeus, from Greek Ioudaios, from Aramaic yhudy, from Hebrew yhûdî, inhabitant of Judah, from yhûdâ, Judah; see Judah2.]

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

( 2 ) Question ; What Is The Meaning Of The Word Hebrew And Where Did It Come From ?
Hebrew [ˈhe�broo�]
n
1. (Linguistics / Languages) the ancient language of the Hebrews, revived as the official language of Israel. It belongs to the Canaanitic branch of the Semitic subfamily of the Afro-Asiatic family of languages
2. (Historical Terms) a member of an ancient Semitic people claiming descent from Abraham; an Israelite
3. Archaic or offensive a Jew
adj
1. (Social Science / Peoples) (Linguistics / Languages) of or relating to the Hebrews or their language
2. Archaic or offensive Jewish
[from Old French Ebreu, from Latin Hebraeus, from Greek Hebraios, from Aramaic `ibhray, from Hebrew `ibhrī one from beyond (the river)]
Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003

( 3) .Question ; Is The Word Hebrew '' The Name Of A Tribe Or A People ?
As the name of a people or a tribe, the word is either used in a historical sense, referring to the people so called in the Bible, or is archaic. When used of modern Jews, it is either used in a humorous sense or is offensive. The proper term is “Jews.�

( 4 ) Question ; What Is The Meaning Of The Word '' Israel '' And Where Did It Come From ?
Is·ra·el 1 (izra-el)
n.
1. Bible
a. Jacob.
b. The descendants of Jacob.
2. Judaism The Hebrew people, past, present, and future, regarded as the chosen people of God by virtue of the covenant of Jacob.

[Middle English, from Old English, from Latin, from Greek Isral, from Hebrew yir'l, God has striven, God has saved : yir, he has striven, saved; see ry in Semitic roots + 'l, God; see l in Semitic roots.]

Is·ra·el 2 (izra-el)
1. An ancient kingdom of Palestine founded by Saul c. 1025 b.c. After 933 it split into the Northern Kingdom, or kingdom of Israel, and the kingdom of Judah to the south. Israel was overthrown by the Assyrians in 721.
2. A country of southwest Asia on the eastern Mediterranean Sea.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

( 5 ),Question ; How Can '' Hebrew '' And '' Israelites '' Be One In The Same , When The Word Hebrew Is Just A Title ?
Non sequitur. Assumes facts not in evidence, i.e., that “Hebrew� is “Just A Title [sic].�

Hebrews and Israelites are synonymous terms in the Bible for the same group. Both terms are archaic today.

( 6 ) .Question ; Is The Name '' Israel '' The Name Of A Tribe Or A People ?
See above.

( 7 ) . Question ; Where The Descendats Before Abraham Hebrew Israelites ?
No. Those terms are not so used in the Bible, and “descendants before Abraham� makes no sense in the English language. “Hebrew Israelite� would also be a redundancy.


Your Kidding Right ???? Not Even One Scripture Nor Chapter / Verse Ok So Be It :)

cnorman18

Re: Jews as a Race?

Post #12

Post by cnorman18 »

RightKnowledge999 wrote:
Your Kidding Right ???? Not Even One Scripture Nor Chapter / Verse Ok So Be It :)
You asked for definitions and distinctions. Last time I checked, those aren't given explicitly in any chapter or verse in the Bible.

Why don't you just go ahead and say whatever it is you have to say?

RightKnowledge999
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Re: Jews as a Race?

Post #13

Post by RightKnowledge999 »

cnorman18 wrote:
RightKnowledge999 wrote:
Your Kidding Right ???? Not Even One Scripture Nor Chapter / Verse Ok So Be It :)
You asked for definitions and distinctions. Last time I checked, those aren't given explicitly in any chapter or verse in the Bible.

Why don't you just go ahead and say whatever it is you have to say?

This Is What I Said < Read Post # 8-9 >

IF I Can Make A Suggestion Let Deal With The The Language In Which The Scription Were Written In Shall We It Only Fair Right . This Way There Won't Be Any Play On Words Ok . So The First Question Is . ( 1 ) What Is The Meaning Of The Word Jew And Where It Come From ?

I'll A Wait For Your Answer , Or Maybe Some One/ Else Has The Answer Ok . It Is Better For Other To Give Their Point Of View .Right

cnorman18

Re: Jews as a Race?

Post #14

Post by cnorman18 »

RightKnowledge999 wrote:
cnorman18 wrote:
RightKnowledge999 wrote:
Your Kidding Right ???? Not Even One Scripture Nor Chapter / Verse Ok So Be It :)
You asked for definitions and distinctions. Last time I checked, those aren't given explicitly in any chapter or verse in the Bible.

Why don't you just go ahead and say whatever it is you have to say?

This Is What I Said < Read Post # 8-9 >

IF I Can Make A Suggestion Let Deal With The The Language In Which The Scription Were Written In Shall We It Only Fair Right . This Way There Won't Be Any Play On Words Ok . So The First Question Is . ( 1 ) What Is The Meaning Of The Word Jew And Where It Come From ?

I'll A Wait For Your Answer , Or Maybe Some One/ Else Has The Answer Ok . It Is Better For Other To Give Their Point Of View .Right
Yeah, I read that.

What I mean is: You said you'd wait for another's answer or point of view. Now you have my answer and my point of view.

What is yours?

Are you going to tell us what YOUR answers are, or are you just going to keep asking for others to tell you theirs?

RightKnowledge999
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Re: Jews as a Race?

Post #15

Post by RightKnowledge999 »

cnorman18 wrote:
RightKnowledge999 wrote:
cnorman18 wrote:
RightKnowledge999 wrote:
Your Kidding Right ???? Not Even One Scripture Nor Chapter / Verse Ok So Be It :)
You asked for definitions and distinctions. Last time I checked, those aren't given explicitly in any chapter or verse in the Bible.

Why don't you just go ahead and say whatever it is you have to say?

This Is What I Said < Read Post # 8-9 >

IF I Can Make A Suggestion Let Deal With The The Language In Which The Scription Were Written In Shall We It Only Fair Right . This Way There Won't Be Any Play On Words Ok . So The First Question Is . ( 1 ) What Is The Meaning Of The Word Jew And Where It Come From ?

I'll A Wait For Your Answer , Or Maybe Some One/ Else Has The Answer Ok . It Is Better For Other To Give Their Point Of View .Right
Yeah, I read that.

What I mean is: You said you'd wait for another's answer or point of view. Now you have my answer and my point of view.

What is yours?

Are you going to tell us what YOUR answers are, or are you just going to keep asking for others to tell you theirs?

Being You Said Read My Answer You Already Know Yes . If I Not Mistaken You Didn't Created This Post . I Also Said To The Person Who Created The Post / Question That In Order For The Question To Be Answer Certian Question Had To Be Answer First , Now According To History The Story's Took Place In The Bible . Meaning One Should Use Scriptures Meaning Chapter And Verse Showing The History . Right Or Wrong ? And Being You Feel You Don't Have To Use Scriptures Meaning Chapter And Verse . I Guess You Already Gave Us Your Answer Right ???
Last edited by RightKnowledge999 on Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

cnorman18

Re: Jews as a Race?

Post #16

Post by cnorman18 »

RightKnowledge999 wrote:
cnorman18 wrote:
RightKnowledge999 wrote:
cnorman18 wrote:
RightKnowledge999 wrote:
Your Kidding Right ???? Not Even One Scripture Nor Chapter / Verse Ok So Be It :)
You asked for definitions and distinctions. Last time I checked, those aren't given explicitly in any chapter or verse in the Bible.

Why don't you just go ahead and say whatever it is you have to say?

This Is What I Said < Read Post # 8-9 >

IF I Can Make A Suggestion Let Deal With The The Language In Which The Scription Were Written In Shall We It Only Fair Right . This Way There Won't Be Any Play On Words Ok . So The First Question Is . ( 1 ) What Is The Meaning Of The Word Jew And Where It Come From ?

I'll A Wait For Your Answer , Or Maybe Some One/ Else Has The Answer Ok . It Is Better For Other To Give Their Point Of View .Right
Yeah, I read that.

What I mean is: You said you'd wait for another's answer or point of view. Now you have my answer and my point of view.

What is yours?

Are you going to tell us what YOUR answers are, or are you just going to keep asking for others to tell you theirs?

Being You Said Read My Answer You Already Know Yes .
I do? That's news to me. I have no idea what you think about these issues, what group (if any) you speak for, what perspective you have, or what you think about Jews or anything else. You've used the pejorative phrase "so-called Jews," but you have not explained or justified the use of that insulting term in any way. You seem to confine yourself to supercilious one-liners and coy hints. It's very clear that you are quite unfamiliar with the English language, but even so, you have yet to say anything of substance about anything, at least on THIS thread.

If you're not going to actually SAY anything, I have nothing to say to you. Have a nice day and goodbye.

RightKnowledge999
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Re: Jews as a Race?

Post #17

Post by RightKnowledge999 »

cnorman18 wrote:
RightKnowledge999 wrote:
cnorman18 wrote:
RightKnowledge999 wrote:
cnorman18 wrote:
RightKnowledge999 wrote:
Your Kidding Right ???? Not Even One Scripture Nor Chapter / Verse Ok So Be It :)
You asked for definitions and distinctions. Last time I checked, those aren't given explicitly in any chapter or verse in the Bible.

Why don't you just go ahead and say whatever it is you have to say?

This Is What I Said < Read Post # 8-9 >

IF I Can Make A Suggestion Let Deal With The The Language In Which The Scription Were Written In Shall We It Only Fair Right . This Way There Won't Be Any Play On Words Ok . So The First Question Is . ( 1 ) What Is The Meaning Of The Word Jew And Where It Come From ?

I'll A Wait For Your Answer , Or Maybe Some One/ Else Has The Answer Ok . It Is Better For Other To Give Their Point Of View .Right
Yeah, I read that.

What I mean is: You said you'd wait for another's answer or point of view. Now you have my answer and my point of view.

What is yours?

Are you going to tell us what YOUR answers are, or are you just going to keep asking for others to tell you theirs?

Being You Said Read My Answer You Already Know Yes .
I do? That's news to me. I have no idea what you think about these issues, what group (if any) you speak for, what perspective you have, or what you think about Jews or anything else. You've used the pejorative phrase "so-called Jews," but you have not explained or justified the use of that insulting term in any way. You seem to confine yourself to supercilious one-liners and coy hints. It's very clear that you are quite unfamiliar with the English language, but even so, you have yet to say anything of substance about anything, at least on THIS thread.

If you're not going to actually SAY anything, I have nothing to say to you. Have a nice day and goodbye.


I have nothing to say to you <> If You're A Person Who Can Keep Your Word , And Time Will Tell . Maybe The Person Who Created This Post Can Get The Anwer They're Looking For , And Then Do Their Own Research . And Not Just Take Anyones Words . It Only Fair . I Don't Think Thats Asking To Much .

cnorman18

Re: Jews as a Race?

Post #18

Post by cnorman18 »

RightKnowledge999 wrote:
cnorman18 wrote:
RightKnowledge999 wrote:
cnorman18 wrote:
RightKnowledge999 wrote:
cnorman18 wrote:
RightKnowledge999 wrote:
Your Kidding Right ???? Not Even One Scripture Nor Chapter / Verse Ok So Be It :)
You asked for definitions and distinctions. Last time I checked, those aren't given explicitly in any chapter or verse in the Bible.

Why don't you just go ahead and say whatever it is you have to say?

This Is What I Said < Read Post # 8-9 >

IF I Can Make A Suggestion Let Deal With The The Language In Which The Scription Were Written In Shall We It Only Fair Right . This Way There Won't Be Any Play On Words Ok . So The First Question Is . ( 1 ) What Is The Meaning Of The Word Jew And Where It Come From ?

I'll A Wait For Your Answer , Or Maybe Some One/ Else Has The Answer Ok . It Is Better For Other To Give Their Point Of View .Right
Yeah, I read that.

What I mean is: You said you'd wait for another's answer or point of view. Now you have my answer and my point of view.

What is yours?

Are you going to tell us what YOUR answers are, or are you just going to keep asking for others to tell you theirs?

Being You Said Read My Answer You Already Know Yes .
I do? That's news to me. I have no idea what you think about these issues, what group (if any) you speak for, what perspective you have, or what you think about Jews or anything else. You've used the pejorative phrase "so-called Jews," but you have not explained or justified the use of that insulting term in any way. You seem to confine yourself to supercilious one-liners and coy hints. It's very clear that you are quite unfamiliar with the English language, but even so, you have yet to say anything of substance about anything, at least on THIS thread.

If you're not going to actually SAY anything, I have nothing to say to you. Have a nice day and goodbye.


I have nothing to say to you <> If You're A Person Who Can Keep Your Word , And Time Will Tell . Maybe The Person Who Created This Post Can Get The Anwer They're Looking For , And Then Do Their Own Research . And Not Just Take Anyones Words . It Only Fair . I Don't Think Thats Asking To Much .
I still have no idea what you have to say. I fail to see what that has to with "keeping my word." If you have nothing to say in answer to the OP yourself, or even in answer to the questions you yourself posted, why do you keep posting to this thread?

I don't think asking you to ANSWER THE QUESTIONS YOURSELF is too much to ask, either -- especially since, unlike you, I HAVE answered both the questions in the OP and YOUR questions as well. You obviously have some answers in mind. Are you afraid, or perhaps ashamed, to post them openly?

alex00ander
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Re: Jews as a Race?

Post #19

Post by alex00ander »

JoeyKnothead wrote:I know I'm gonna sound racist here, that is most certainly NOT my intent, but dangitall I can't put this together in a better fashion...

In another thread I see that Jewish folks don't consider themselves a race. As Judaism is a theology / philosophy, it may include folks as diverse as humanity itself, on that there can be no argument.

What I wonder though, is the deal where a person born to a Jewish mother is considered Jewish. Doesn't this imply a race?

I realize Wikipedia is not the be all and end all here, but I searched it for "Jewish Race" specifically, and was redirected to...
Wikipedia: Jews wrote: The Jews (Hebrew: יְהוּדִי�‎ "Yehudim" IPA: jɛhu�di�m), also known as the Jewish people, are a nation and ethnoreligious group originating in the Israelites or Hebrews of the Ancient Near East. The Jewish ethnicity, nationality, and religion are strongly interrelated, as Judaism is the traditional faith of the Jewish nation.[6][7][8] Converts to Judaism, whose status as Jews within the Jewish ethnos is equal to those born into it, have been absorbed into the Jewish people throughout the millennia.
Doesn't "ethnoreligious" indicate such as "Some Jews are of a race", while leaving open the fact that some Jewish members are of other races?

I swear I don't mean to be insulting, but I think of some of the physical stereotypes ('characters' in biology speak), and let's be real, there is some small inkling that we could identify a person as "jewish" (small 'j' to remove religion/philosophy) by some of these physical stereotypes (agreeing that it's not 100% accurate or even close to it). Is this where we differentiate between Jew, and Hebrew? I really don't know, so please don't hate on me.

Is there a particular issue with considering at least some Jews as being of a Jewish race - especially where there is no nefarious intent?

Again, I'm sorry if I come across as racist, and hopefully this discussion can be enlightening to myself and others.

Dear Joey,

I really enjoyed reading your question and found it to be respectful. You are right that there is some element of race and genetics in determining who is Jewish, but the Jews cannot be considered a race.
Due to conversion and intermarriage Jews have diversified and have become many races, not just one. I am studying in Israel right now and I have met Jews from India, Yemen, Morroco, Australia, Africa, and all over Europe. Racially these Jews look like you would expect someone to look like from their respective country of origin. Because of this I don't think you can point to the Jews as being a race.

Alex



http://www.mcnlaw.co.il/

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RobertUrbanek
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Post #20

Post by RobertUrbanek »

The issue is clouded by the term "semite," for which the Mirriam-Webster definition includes:

a: a member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs

That is clearly a reference to an ethnic or racial group, which leads people to conclude, rightly or not, that a person who is an antisemite is a racist.
Untroubled, scornful, outrageous — That is how wisdom wants us to be. She is a woman and never loves anyone but a warrior — Friedrich Nietzsche

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