High Support Among American Jews for Same-Sex Marriage

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Jrosemary
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High Support Among American Jews for Same-Sex Marriage

Post #1

Post by Jrosemary »

According to Pew Forum, 76% of American Jews support same-sex marriage, with just 18% opposed. You can see the poll here: http://pewforum.org/Gay-Marriage-and-Ho ... x#military

I'm not surprised. Even some of the die-hard Republicans in my shul support same-sex marriage. (Does that make them automatically Log Cabin Republicans?)

It's no secret that I'm a supporter of same-sex marriage, so I was happy to see these numbers. O:)

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Post #2

Post by Murad »

A blatant question from my behalf, so i apologise in advance.

What would Moses think about same sex marriage?
If we are to accept Leviticus 20:13 & Leviticus 18:22 originated from Moses.
Do the people think that they will be left to say, "We believe" without being put to the test?
We have tested those before them, for GOD must distinguish those who are truthful, and He must expose the liars.

(Quran 29:2-3)

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Why Jesus is NOT God
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Post #3

Post by Darias »

Murad wrote:A blatant question from my behalf, so i apologise in advance.

What would Moses think about same sex marriage?
If we are to accept Leviticus 20:13 & Leviticus 18:22 originated from Moses.
What would Moses think about hamburgers, women's suffrage, and the internet?

He'd probably be appalled by all of it. So why is he relevant to the question?

Edit:

I mean Moses is the guy who oversaw the law that compels you to stone disobedient children. (not to mention homosexuals).

Why should we consult his BC ethics in this matter?

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Post #4

Post by Murad »

Darias wrote:
Murad wrote:A blatant question from my behalf, so i apologise in advance.

What would Moses think about same sex marriage?
If we are to accept Leviticus 20:13 & Leviticus 18:22 originated from Moses.
What would Moses think about hamburgers, women's suffrage, and the internet?

He'd probably be appalled by all of it. So why is he relevant to the question?

Edit:

I mean Moses is the guy who oversaw the law that compels you to stone disobedient children. (not to mention homosexuals).

Why should we consult his BC ethics in this matter?
Well i base my question not on subjective opinion, rather the two verses i quoted from leviticus. Even though i know the Mosaic authorship of the Torah is generally rejected, the Jewish texts still have his name on it.
Do the people think that they will be left to say, "We believe" without being put to the test?
We have tested those before them, for GOD must distinguish those who are truthful, and He must expose the liars.

(Quran 29:2-3)

----
Why Jesus is NOT God
---

cnorman18

Post #5

Post by cnorman18 »

Murad wrote:
Darias wrote:
Murad wrote:A blatant question from my behalf, so i apologise in advance.

What would Moses think about same sex marriage?
If we are to accept Leviticus 20:13 & Leviticus 18:22 originated from Moses.
What would Moses think about hamburgers, women's suffrage, and the internet?

He'd probably be appalled by all of it. So why is he relevant to the question?

Edit:

I mean Moses is the guy who oversaw the law that compels you to stone disobedient children. (not to mention homosexuals).

Why should we consult his BC ethics in this matter?
Well i base my question not on subjective opinion, rather the two verses i quoted from leviticus. Even though i know the Mosaic authorship of the Torah is generally rejected, the Jewish texts still have his name on it.
"The Torah is not in Heaven."

Basic principle of Jewish law. The Torah was given to us -- and now it is in OUR hands, to interpret and apply as WE see fit. God no longer dictates the Law; He has a seat at the table with the rest of us, but no more than that. He (that is, the Torah) only has a vote, not a veto.

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Post #6

Post by Murad »

cnorman18 wrote:
Murad wrote:
Darias wrote:
Murad wrote:A blatant question from my behalf, so i apologise in advance.

What would Moses think about same sex marriage?
If we are to accept Leviticus 20:13 & Leviticus 18:22 originated from Moses.
What would Moses think about hamburgers, women's suffrage, and the internet?

He'd probably be appalled by all of it. So why is he relevant to the question?

Edit:

I mean Moses is the guy who oversaw the law that compels you to stone disobedient children. (not to mention homosexuals).

Why should we consult his BC ethics in this matter?
Well i base my question not on subjective opinion, rather the two verses i quoted from leviticus. Even though i know the Mosaic authorship of the Torah is generally rejected, the Jewish texts still have his name on it.
"The Torah is not in Heaven."

Basic principle of Jewish law. The Torah was given to us -- and now it is in OUR hands, to interpret and apply as WE see fit. God no longer dictates the Law; He has a seat at the table with the rest of us, but no more than that. He (that is, the Torah) only has a vote, not a veto.
Ofcourse its in YOUR hands to interpret the Torah however you see fit, but how on earth do you interpret unambiguous verses? Could you provide me with other interpretations of Leviticus 20:13 & Leviticus 18:22 ?
Are your interpretations pre-conditioned with subjective values?
Does that affect how "true" your 'interpretations' are?
Do the people think that they will be left to say, "We believe" without being put to the test?
We have tested those before them, for GOD must distinguish those who are truthful, and He must expose the liars.

(Quran 29:2-3)

----
Why Jesus is NOT God
---

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Post #7

Post by Goat »

Murad wrote:
cnorman18 wrote:
Murad wrote:
Darias wrote:
Murad wrote:A blatant question from my behalf, so i apologise in advance.

What would Moses think about same sex marriage?
If we are to accept Leviticus 20:13 & Leviticus 18:22 originated from Moses.
What would Moses think about hamburgers, women's suffrage, and the internet?

He'd probably be appalled by all of it. So why is he relevant to the question?

Edit:

I mean Moses is the guy who oversaw the law that compels you to stone disobedient children. (not to mention homosexuals).

Why should we consult his BC ethics in this matter?
Well i base my question not on subjective opinion, rather the two verses i quoted from leviticus. Even though i know the Mosaic authorship of the Torah is generally rejected, the Jewish texts still have his name on it.
"The Torah is not in Heaven."

Basic principle of Jewish law. The Torah was given to us -- and now it is in OUR hands, to interpret and apply as WE see fit. God no longer dictates the Law; He has a seat at the table with the rest of us, but no more than that. He (that is, the Torah) only has a vote, not a veto.
Ofcourse its in YOUR hands to interpret the Torah however you see fit, but how on earth do you interpret unambiguous verses? Could you provide me with other interpretations of Leviticus 20:13 & Leviticus 18:22 ?
Are your interpretations pre-conditioned with subjective values?
Does that affect how "true" your 'interpretations' are?
Well, even the very orthodox interpretation restricts the prohibition to anal sex, rather than all the variations possible. In other words, it is perfectly possible to have a loving gay relationship and not violate the letter of the law.

And, I will point out, that in the Jewish scriptures, it is man on man anal sex that is restricted. .. and it does not restrict relationship between women.
“What do you think science is? There is nothing magical about science. It is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results. So which part of that exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree with being thorough? Using careful observation? Being systematic? Or using consistent logic?�

Steven Novella

cnorman18

Post #8

Post by cnorman18 »

Murad wrote:
cnorman18 wrote:
Murad wrote:
Darias wrote:
Murad wrote:A blatant question from my behalf, so i apologise in advance.

What would Moses think about same sex marriage?
If we are to accept Leviticus 20:13 & Leviticus 18:22 originated from Moses.
What would Moses think about hamburgers, women's suffrage, and the internet?

He'd probably be appalled by all of it. So why is he relevant to the question?

Edit:

I mean Moses is the guy who oversaw the law that compels you to stone disobedient children. (not to mention homosexuals).

Why should we consult his BC ethics in this matter?
Well i base my question not on subjective opinion, rather the two verses i quoted from leviticus. Even though i know the Mosaic authorship of the Torah is generally rejected, the Jewish texts still have his name on it.
"The Torah is not in Heaven."

Basic principle of Jewish law. The Torah was given to us -- and now it is in OUR hands, to interpret and apply as WE see fit. God no longer dictates the Law; He has a seat at the table with the rest of us, but no more than that. He (that is, the Torah) only has a vote, not a veto.
Ofcourse its in YOUR hands to interpret the Torah however you see fit, but how on earth do you interpret unambiguous verses? Could you provide me with other interpretations of Leviticus 20:13 & Leviticus 18:22 ?
Are your interpretations pre-conditioned with subjective values?
Does that affect how "true" your 'interpretations' are?
I said "interpret and apply," and in this case that would mean, "overrule and not apply at all." Some principles in Torah law are of higher priority than others, and among the very highest is found, and repeated for emphasis, in Deuteronomy 16: "Justice, justice shalt thou pursue." In Jewish tradition, ANY commandment, excepting only those prohibiting blasphemy, adultery, and murder, can be broken to save a life -- and, by extension, to prevent an injustice.

The material in this article comes from a conservative Christian source, oddly enough, but it is particularly relevant here; it has to do with facts about homosexuality that are known today that were not known in Biblical times -- not least the fact that "homosexuality," as we understand it today, was not even known to exist at that time; the Bible addresses homosexual ACTS only, and does not seem to be "aware," so to speak, of homosexuality as an orientation or a lifestyle.

There's nothing particularly new about this. The Hebrew Bible also prescribes the death penalty for blasphemy, adultery, murder (see above), and for working on the Sabbath or cursing one's parents. People don't seem to have a problem with THOSE verses being overruled and ignored today. For some reason, the verses condemning homosexuality are held up as sacrosanct by some who claim to believe in the Bible as the literal Word of God, while others are blithely ignored without comment or justification. That's because it's hardly necessary, and I think that's the case with these as well.

Since most modern Jews believe that the Bible was the result of humans more or less like us, debating and reaching consensus in their own day, it has no more authority than we do in ours; and it should also be taken into account that it was written from a knowledge base that is considerably smaller than our own. We take the wisdom of the past seriously, but we do not worship the Bible or think that every deviation from its teachings must be justified in detail. That's the approach of the people who produced it; what others may do with it is not our concern.

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Post #9

Post by Murad »

cnorman18 wrote: Since most modern Jews believe that the Bible was the result of humans more or less like us, debating and reaching consensus in their own day, it has no more authority than we do in ours; and it should also be taken into account that it was written from a knowledge base that is considerably smaller than our own. We take the wisdom of the past seriously, but we do not worship the Bible or think that every deviation from its teachings must be justified in detail. That's the approach of the people who produced it; what others may do with it is not our concern.
I must admit, im new to the Jewish 'attitude' towards interpreting scripture, but it seems like an interesting topic. Although i dont agree with certain aspects of your posts, such as abrogation, but thats completely subjective.

Nevertheless, i skimmed through the letter, it was an interesting read. Thanks.
Do the people think that they will be left to say, "We believe" without being put to the test?
We have tested those before them, for GOD must distinguish those who are truthful, and He must expose the liars.

(Quran 29:2-3)

----
Why Jesus is NOT God
---

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Post #10

Post by Lux »

=D>

My favorite thing about Judaism is that, in my observation, most jews seem to take a "I have my morality, but I would never impose it on others" sort of approach. A large pro compared to many other religions, I must say.
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