Sensationalist Story?

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JoeyKnothead
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Sensationalist Story?

Post #1

Post by JoeyKnothead »

From the article here:
A Jerusalem rabbinical court has condemned to death by stoning a stray dog it suspects is the reincarnation of a secular lawyer who insulted the court's judges 20 years ago.
...
I can half-way see killing a dog for tearing up the pole beans or some such, but really?

Is this something the Jewish religion considers seriously, or is this some fringe group? The story seems to say it's a ruling of the Monetary Affairs Court in an "ultra-Orthodox" neighborhood of Jerusalem.

Does the Israeli government support this kind of thing?

This kinda shakes my understanding of Jewish folks being >can't say here cause any phrasing I come up with could rightly be insulting to others<.

School me y'all.
Some say it came from Memphis down in Tennessee
Or it drifted in from Georgia about 1953
Just as long as it's greasy, as long as it's fast
As long as it's pumpin' honey, it's gonna last

It's the hillbilly rock, beat it with a drum
Playin' them guitars like shootin' from a gun
Keepin' up the rhythm, steady as a clock
Doin' a little thing called the hillbilly rock
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Jrosemary
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Post #2

Post by Jrosemary »

Hey Joey,

There are some pretty extreme ultra-Orthodox groups out there, but this is the first I've heard of this story. I'd like to see it confirmed in Haaretz (a respected paper in Israel with an on-line English edition and a decidedly liberal bent.) I don't have time to look at Haaretz this morning, but I can check it out later. If this is on the up an up, it should be carrying the story and will no doubt give its opinion on both what the Israeli government can do and should do.

I can tell you that reincarnation is a common enough belief in Judaism--mystical Jews of all types tend to go for it, since the teaching is part of Kabbalah. The ultra-Orthodox groups that identify with the Chasidim tend to be mystical in that way.

So my answer is . . . I'll get back to you.

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Cathar1950
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Post #3

Post by Cathar1950 »

It just goes to show you that Christian or Muslim groups do not have the only crazies.
The best part of the story?
However, the canine escaped.

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Post #4

Post by Jrosemary »

Cathar1950 wrote:It just goes to show you that Christian or Muslim groups do not have the only crazies.
The best part of the story?
However, the canine escaped.
I think we do have our crazies, just as all religions do. But this article turned out to be false:
Haaretz wrote:Jewish dog wags international media's tail

Why were news outlets around the world so quick to report on a story about a religious Jewish court's apparently ludicrous ruling, when the original source had already issued a retraction?

By Carmel Gould

In the age of instant news and the spreading like wildfire of information - true or false - via the Twittersphere, there are genuine questions which need answering about the future of accurate news reporting. The debunking of the Gay Girl in Damascus blog, which it turns out was written by an American man in Scotland, made many people nervous about how easy it is to be taken in by an internet persona. Journalists continue to be banned from action hotspots like Syria, where information is at a premium - maybe it was just easier to believe in Gay Girl than to do without her.

The recent story about the alleged sentencing to death of an Israeli canine inhabited by the spirit of a hateful secular lawyer reminds us that verification of facts can still play second fiddle to getting a juicy story out quickly. Worse, the response from media outlets following a debunking raises similarly serious issues as the original publication of the skewed report.

On 3 June, Maariv published, ‘Mea Shearim: Beth din ordered stoning of a female dog’ which told of how a dog had entered a religious court room during proceedings and refused to leave. I must admit to not having read the original article as the content has since been removed from the newspaper’s website (the headline remains). However, according to reports, it claimed that one of the sitting judges announced that the dog was inhabited by the spirit of a secular Jewish lawyer who had insulted the court twenty years prior and called for it to be killed.

What followed is somewhat confusing. The religious court issued a lengthy and unequivocal denial that any such order was given, counter-claiming that, "The only thing that happened… was that the judges called 106- the Jerusalem Municipal dispatch in charge of stray dogs – requesting that the dog be picked up from Beth Din. Until that happened, the dog sat down in the corner- peaceful, calm and unharmed. That story can be verified with the municipal dispatch." The statement also rebuked the media for apparently misrepresenting the facts.

Whatever the case, on 15 June, Maariv saw fit to publish a clarification in which it admitted that its headline claiming that the court had ordered the dog’s death "did not reflect the full story and we apologize to the court and its members for the distress caused."

But the media horse had bolted: rabbis handing down death sentences to dogs, and in Israel - this was too good to miss out on, surely. Global news agency AFP produced, "Jewish court sentences dog to death by stoning" on Friday (two days after the retraction); the BBC went with, "Jerusalem rabbis 'condemn dog to death by stoning'’ on Saturday; and Time published ‘Shocking Sentence: Jewish Court Condemns Dog To Death by Stoning’ on the same day. The latter piece received over 2,000 Facebook likes and was retweeted more than 800 times. According to Britain’s Jewish Chronicle, the BBC story even featured as "Most Read" on the website for a time.

The fact that all these stories were released after Maariv acknowledged that their claim that the court ordered the death of the dog was unjustified is seriously worrying. It indicates that journalists did not contact the source of the story but simply relied on second hand reporting, in this case, from Israel’s English-language Ynet website, which also published its story subsequent to Maariv’s retraction.

Presumably as a result of numerous bloggers flagging the retraction, a number of publications which released the seemingly false story have engaged in some level of manoeuvring, generally not involving acknowledgment of any wrongdoing on their parts. The BBC has published, "Jerusalem court denies dog condemned to stoning" which notes that "The source of the report, Israel's Maariv newspaper, apologised for its headline and for any offence caused." As though the retraction had only just occurred and was hence responsible for the BBC’s initial sloppiness.

The Daily Telegraph website, which carried the AFP article over the weekend, removed its original article and posted, "Israel dog stoning reports strongly denied" which also insinuated that Maariv was entirely to blame.

Perhaps a more fitting response would have been to acknowledge the timeline in their follow-up coverage, thus accepting some responsibility for the fact that they too had fallen foul of basic journalistic standards in not checking the facts with the source.


Carmel Gould is the Editorial Manager of Just Journalism, a non-profit think tank focusing on British media coverage of Israel, the Palestinians and the Middle East.


Source: http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jew ... l-1.369056

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JoeyKnothead
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Post #5

Post by JoeyKnothead »

I'm relieved to know my Jewish brethren and sisteren haven't lost their marbles :)
Some say it came from Memphis down in Tennessee
Or it drifted in from Georgia about 1953
Just as long as it's greasy, as long as it's fast
As long as it's pumpin' honey, it's gonna last

It's the hillbilly rock, beat it with a drum
Playin' them guitars like shootin' from a gun
Keepin' up the rhythm, steady as a clock
Doin' a little thing called the hillbilly rock
- Marty Stuart

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Cathar1950
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Post #6

Post by Cathar1950 »

Jrosemary wrote:
Cathar1950 wrote:It just goes to show you that Christian or Muslim groups do not have the only crazies.
The best part of the story?
However, the canine escaped.
I think we do have our crazies, just as all religions do. But this article turned out to be false:
Haaretz wrote:Jewish dog wags international media's tail

Why were news outlets around the world so quick to report on a story about a religious Jewish court's apparently ludicrous ruling, when the original source had already issued a retraction?

By Carmel Gould

In the age of instant news and the spreading like wildfire of information - true or false - via the Twittersphere, there are genuine questions which need answering about the future of accurate news reporting. The debunking of the Gay Girl in Damascus blog, which it turns out was written by an American man in Scotland, made many people nervous about how easy it is to be taken in by an internet persona. Journalists continue to be banned from action hotspots like Syria, where information is at a premium - maybe it was just easier to believe in Gay Girl than to do without her.

The recent story about the alleged sentencing to death of an Israeli canine inhabited by the spirit of a hateful secular lawyer reminds us that verification of facts can still play second fiddle to getting a juicy story out quickly. Worse, the response from media outlets following a debunking raises similarly serious issues as the original publication of the skewed report.

On 3 June, Maariv published, ‘Mea Shearim: Beth din ordered stoning of a female dog’ which told of how a dog had entered a religious court room during proceedings and refused to leave. I must admit to not having read the original article as the content has since been removed from the newspaper’s website (the headline remains). However, according to reports, it claimed that one of the sitting judges announced that the dog was inhabited by the spirit of a secular Jewish lawyer who had insulted the court twenty years prior and called for it to be killed.

What followed is somewhat confusing. The religious court issued a lengthy and unequivocal denial that any such order was given, counter-claiming that, "The only thing that happened… was that the judges called 106- the Jerusalem Municipal dispatch in charge of stray dogs – requesting that the dog be picked up from Beth Din. Until that happened, the dog sat down in the corner- peaceful, calm and unharmed. That story can be verified with the municipal dispatch." The statement also rebuked the media for apparently misrepresenting the facts.

Whatever the case, on 15 June, Maariv saw fit to publish a clarification in which it admitted that its headline claiming that the court had ordered the dog’s death "did not reflect the full story and we apologize to the court and its members for the distress caused."

But the media horse had bolted: rabbis handing down death sentences to dogs, and in Israel - this was too good to miss out on, surely. Global news agency AFP produced, "Jewish court sentences dog to death by stoning" on Friday (two days after the retraction); the BBC went with, "Jerusalem rabbis 'condemn dog to death by stoning'’ on Saturday; and Time published ‘Shocking Sentence: Jewish Court Condemns Dog To Death by Stoning’ on the same day. The latter piece received over 2,000 Facebook likes and was retweeted more than 800 times. According to Britain’s Jewish Chronicle, the BBC story even featured as "Most Read" on the website for a time.

The fact that all these stories were released after Maariv acknowledged that their claim that the court ordered the death of the dog was unjustified is seriously worrying. It indicates that journalists did not contact the source of the story but simply relied on second hand reporting, in this case, from Israel’s English-language Ynet website, which also published its story subsequent to Maariv’s retraction.

Presumably as a result of numerous bloggers flagging the retraction, a number of publications which released the seemingly false story have engaged in some level of manoeuvring, generally not involving acknowledgment of any wrongdoing on their parts. The BBC has published, "Jerusalem court denies dog condemned to stoning" which notes that "The source of the report, Israel's Maariv newspaper, apologised for its headline and for any offence caused." As though the retraction had only just occurred and was hence responsible for the BBC’s initial sloppiness.

The Daily Telegraph website, which carried the AFP article over the weekend, removed its original article and posted, "Israel dog stoning reports strongly denied" which also insinuated that Maariv was entirely to blame.

Perhaps a more fitting response would have been to acknowledge the timeline in their follow-up coverage, thus accepting some responsibility for the fact that they too had fallen foul of basic journalistic standards in not checking the facts with the source.


Carmel Gould is the Editorial Manager of Just Journalism, a non-profit think tank focusing on British media coverage of Israel, the Palestinians and the Middle East.


Source: http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jew ... l-1.369056
We shouldn't be surprised.

Accuracy in news is no more reliable the what we find in ancient writings.

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Post #7

Post by Cathar1950 »

JoeyKnothead wrote:I'm relieved to know my Jewish brethren and sistren haven't lost their marbles :)
We can't let them count for all Jews...lol
Just because we didn't come out crazy in this story doesn't mean anything about our rational status. We could still be crazy.

The story makes about as much sense as killing an animal because someone decided to have sex with it.
Then there is the scape goat ritual that continued long after they forgot its meaning much like the Passover, circumcision, and other oddities that later helped bind a community.

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Post #8

Post by Question Everything »

Cathar1950 wrote: We shouldn't be surprised.

Accuracy in news is no more reliable the what we find in ancient writings.
You bring up a good point. We all know of the crazy stuff in the news that turns out to be "pants on fire" fabrications, and yet millions of people believe it. For example:

Statements we say are Pants on Fire!

Chain e-mail

E-mail is based on six fabricated quotes
Accuses President Barack Obama of making contradictory claims about efforts to kill Osama bin Laden in 2008 and 2011.

Mitt Romney

Wrong before, and even more wrong now
"A few months into office, (President Barack Obama) traveled around the globe to apologize for America."

Sarah Palin

Math doesn't add up
"We're going to be looking at $8 billion a day that we're going to be pouring into foreign countries in order to import that make-up fuel that we're going to need to take the place of what we could have gotten out of the gulf."

Mitt Romney

Marx wouldn't be happy with the U.S., circa 2011
"We are only inches away from ceasing to be a free market economy."

Crossroads GPS

Long explanation for a whole lot of nothing
"Unions don’t have to comply with Obamacare."

Chain e-mail

No light bulb police
Next year, "you will be mandated by federal law to get rid of your existing light bulbs."

AmeriPAC

Belied by light bulbs now on Home Depot shelves
"The Democrats have already voted to ban our conventional light bulbs ... in favor of dangerous fluorescent light bulbs."

Nancy Pelosi

Calculations shift responsibility for one debt-heavy year from Obama to Bush
Promotes a chart saying that Barack Obama has "increased the debt" by 16 percent, compared to George W. Bush, who increased it by 115 percent.

Mitt Romney

The claim lives on
President Obama’s health care law "represents a government takeover of health care."

Donald Trump

Kuwait paid $16 billion in war costs, U.S. paid $7 billion
After the U.S.-led military alliance ejected Saddam Hussein’s forces from Kuwait in 1991, the Kuwaitis "never paid us."

Donald Trump

One poll (misidentified) conducted before he delved into birth certificate issue
"CNN did a poll recently where Obama and I are statistically tied."

Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee

Don't break open the piggy bank!
"Seniors will have to find $12,500 for health care because Republicans voted to end Medicare."

Reince Priebus

Off by a factor of 10
"We’ve lost 26 million jobs … since (Obama’s) been president."

Michele Bachmann

One wrong statement
"One. That's the number of new drilling permits under the Obama administration since they came into office."

WorldNetDaily

GAO found nothing of the sort
"A U.S. Government Accountability Office report says Planned Parenthood Federation of America cannot find some $1.3 billion given to it by the federal government from 2002 through 2008."

Rick Santorum

Disagreement on abortion taken to an extreme
"Any child born prematurely, according to the president, in his own words, can be killed."

Glenn Beck

Misinformed outrage
Says Michelle Obama has 43 people on her staff; Nancy Reagan had just 3.

Chain e-mail

Claim stems from satire, not fact
Says that in a hearing, Rep. Gabrielle Giffords suggested to Gen. David Petraeus that the Army "put more emphasis on less environmentally damaging methods, like stabbing or clubbing enemy forces in order to minimize the carbon output."

Donald Trump

Plenty of classmates remember Obama
"The people that went to school with (Barack Obama), they never saw him, they don't know who he is."

Chain e-mail

No, the communists won't be living in foreign trade zones
Foreign Trade Zones allow U.S. "land to be inhabited by Chinese communists -- communists straight from China! They are to set up little towns and live here."
"Oh, you can''t get through seminary and come out believing in God!"

current pastor who is a closet atheist
quoted by Daniel Dennett.

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Question Everything
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Post #9

Post by Question Everything »

Cathar1950 wrote: We shouldn't be surprised.

Accuracy in news is no more reliable the what we find in ancient writings.
Here are some more examples:
Statements we say are Pants on Fire!

Chain e-mail

E-mail is based on six fabricated quotes
Accuses President Barack Obama of making contradictory claims about efforts to kill Osama bin Laden in 2008 and 2011.

Mitt Romney

Wrong before, and even more wrong now
"A few months into office, (President Barack Obama) traveled around the globe to apologize for America."

Sarah Palin

Math doesn't add up
"We're going to be looking at $8 billion a day that we're going to be pouring into foreign countries in order to import that make-up fuel that we're going to need to take the place of what we could have gotten out of the gulf."

Mitt Romney

Marx wouldn't be happy with the U.S., circa 2011
"We are only inches away from ceasing to be a free market economy."

Crossroads GPS

Long explanation for a whole lot of nothing
"Unions don’t have to comply with Obamacare."

Chain e-mail

No light bulb police
Next year, "you will be mandated by federal law to get rid of your existing light bulbs."

AmeriPAC

Belied by light bulbs now on Home Depot shelves
"The Democrats have already voted to ban our conventional light bulbs ... in favor of dangerous fluorescent light bulbs."

Nancy Pelosi

Calculations shift responsibility for one debt-heavy year from Obama to Bush
Promotes a chart saying that Barack Obama has "increased the debt" by 16 percent, compared to George W. Bush, who increased it by 115 percent.

Mitt Romney

The claim lives on
President Obama’s health care law "represents a government takeover of health care."

Donald Trump

Kuwait paid $16 billion in war costs, U.S. paid $7 billion
After the U.S.-led military alliance ejected Saddam Hussein’s forces from Kuwait in 1991, the Kuwaitis "never paid us."

Donald Trump

One poll (misidentified) conducted before he delved into birth certificate issue
"CNN did a poll recently where Obama and I are statistically tied."

Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee

Don't break open the piggy bank!
"Seniors will have to find $12,500 for health care because Republicans voted to end Medicare."

Reince Priebus

Off by a factor of 10
"We’ve lost 26 million jobs … since (Obama’s) been president."

Michele Bachmann

One wrong statement
"One. That's the number of new drilling permits under the Obama administration since they came into office."

WorldNetDaily

GAO found nothing of the sort
"A U.S. Government Accountability Office report says Planned Parenthood Federation of America cannot find some $1.3 billion given to it by the federal government from 2002 through 2008."

Rick Santorum

Disagreement on abortion taken to an extreme
"Any child born prematurely, according to the president, in his own words, can be killed."

Glenn Beck

Misinformed outrage
Says Michelle Obama has 43 people on her staff; Nancy Reagan had just 3.

Chain e-mail

Claim stems from satire, not fact
Says that in a hearing, Rep. Gabrielle Giffords suggested to Gen. David Petraeus that the Army "put more emphasis on less environmentally damaging methods, like stabbing or clubbing enemy forces in order to minimize the carbon output."

Donald Trump

Plenty of classmates remember Obama
"The people that went to school with (Barack Obama), they never saw him, they don't know who he is."

Chain e-mail

No, the communists won't be living in foreign trade zones
Foreign Trade Zones allow U.S. "land to be inhabited by Chinese communists -- communists straight from China! They are to set up little towns and live here."
Page 1 of 8
http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/rulings/pants-fire/

You read that right. 7 more pages of this stuff follows.

You bring up a very good point. With modern communications technology and a mostly literate population, just look at all the nonsense out there that is widely believed. Is it understandable why we might want to question the truthfulness of something written by Bronze Age and early Iron Age sheepherders? Heck, I don't care if they were eyewitness accounts, and faithfully copied without error.
"Oh, you can''t get through seminary and come out believing in God!"

current pastor who is a closet atheist
quoted by Daniel Dennett.

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Cathar1950
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Post #10

Post by Cathar1950 »

Question Everything wrote:
Cathar 1950 wrote: We shouldn't be surprised.

Accuracy in news is no more reliable the what we find in ancient writings.
Here are some more examples:
Statements we say are Pants on Fire!

Chain e-mail

E-mail is based on six fabricated quotes
Accuses President Barack Obama of making contradictory claims about efforts to kill Osama bin Laden in 2008 and 2011.

Mitt Romney

Wrong before, and even more wrong now
"A few months into office, (President Barack Obama) traveled around the globe to apologize for America."

Sarah Palin

Math doesn't add up
"We're going to be looking at $8 billion a day that we're going to be pouring into foreign countries in order to import that make-up fuel that we're going to need to take the place of what we could have gotten out of the gulf."

Mitt Romney

Marx wouldn't be happy with the U.S., circa 2011
"We are only inches away from ceasing to be a free market economy."

Crossroads GPS

Long explanation for a whole lot of nothing
"Unions don’t have to comply with Obamacare."

Chain e-mail

No light bulb police
Next year, "you will be mandated by federal law to get rid of your existing light bulbs."

AmeriPAC

Belied by light bulbs now on Home Depot shelves
"The Democrats have already voted to ban our conventional light bulbs ... in favor of dangerous fluorescent light bulbs."

Nancy Pelosi

Calculations shift responsibility for one debt-heavy year from Obama to Bush
Promotes a chart saying that Barack Obama has "increased the debt" by 16 percent, compared to George W. Bush, who increased it by 115 percent.

Mitt Romney

The claim lives on
President Obama’s health care law "represents a government takeover of health care."

Donald Trump

Kuwait paid $16 billion in war costs, U.S. paid $7 billion
After the U.S.-led military alliance ejected Saddam Hussein’s forces from Kuwait in 1991, the Kuwaitis "never paid us."

Donald Trump

One poll (misidentified) conducted before he delved into birth certificate issue
"CNN did a poll recently where Obama and I are statistically tied."

Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee

Don't break open the piggy bank!
"Seniors will have to find $12,500 for health care because Republicans voted to end Medicare."

Reince Priebus

Off by a factor of 10
"We've lost 26 million jobs … since (Obama’s) been president."

Michele Bachmann

One wrong statement
"One. That's the number of new drilling permits under the Obama administration since they came into office."

WorldNetDaily

GAO found nothing of the sort
"A U.S. Government Accountability Office report says Planned Parenthood Federation of America cannot find some $1.3 billion given to it by the federal government from 2002 through 2008."

Rick Santorum

Disagreement on abortion taken to an extreme
"Any child born prematurely, according to the president, in his own words, can be killed."

Glenn Beck

Misinformed outrage
Says Michelle Obama has 43 people on her staff; Nancy Reagan had just 3.

Chain e-mail

Claim stems from satire, not fact
Says that in a hearing, Rep. Gabrielle Giffords suggested to Gen. David Petraeus that the Army "put more emphasis on less environmentally damaging methods, like stabbing or clubbing enemy forces in order to minimize the carbon output."

Donald Trump

Plenty of classmates remember Obama
"The people that went to school with (Barack Obama), they never saw him, they don't know who he is."

Chain e-mail

No, the communists won't be living in foreign trade zones
Foreign Trade Zones allow U.S. "land to be inhabited by Chinese communists -- communists straight from China! They are to set up little towns and live here."
Page 1 of 8
http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/rulings/pants-fire/

You read that right. 7 more pages of this stuff follows.

You bring up a very good point. With modern communications technology and a mostly literate population, just look at all the nonsense out there that is widely believed. Is it understandable why we might want to question the truthfulness of something written by Bronze Age and early Iron Age sheepherders? Heck, I don't care if they were eyewitness accounts, and faithfully copied without error.
Bronze Age sheepherders did write the accounts and most of them probably never heard most of them. They were written by priest and scribes with political/religious purposes more like propaganda.

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