Reading 2 - Genesis 6-11:9

[Bio-logical]

I feel it is appropriate to post the next reading assignment. Remember that the discussion on the previous one may continue but our goal is to read the bible so I am going to keep moving. I have started a new thread for organizational purposes and will continue to do so for the remainder of the study barring any suggestions.

The reading is Genesis 6- 11:9

Flood
The Daughters of Men: Gen 6:1-8
Building the Ark: Gen 6:9-8:22
Noah Commences the Human race again: Gen 9:1-28
The progeny of Noah: Gen 10:1-32
Babel/Nations
Mans pride forms separatism and the nations while loosing a unifying language: Gen 11:1-9

One addition I would like to make is that I found this site that has several questions about each chapter you may want to keep in mind while reading.

[Heterodoxus]

If these verses referred to humans, [they] makes far more sense in a narrative pretext that this refers to some sort of supernatural being.

Just thinking here but, if it's correct that only superstitious people worship supernatural beings then, yes, these narrative verses are likely a pretext for the insertion of a portion of the unoriginal Hebrew version of the Sumerian epic of Gilgamesh into Genesis 6.

However, James Orr explained in the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (ISBE) that:

the Nephilim are not necessarily to be identified with ... "the sons of God" (Genesis 6:2, 4); indeed, they seem to be distinguished from the latter .... they clearly represent men of gigantic stature, in comparison with whom the Israelites felt as if they were 'grasshopers.' This agrees with Genesis 6:4, 'the mighty men that were of old,...."

And, whether "Nephilim" even refers to either supernatural beings or to male humans is, to me, further confused by the Aramaic Bible comment that Nephilim is an idiom referring to:

"Strange creatures," hybrid forms, monstrously large [and, specifically, aboriginal] Neanderthals.

It was because of this apparent lack of a clear explanation that I made no comment on GEN 6:2, 4, and later shared Strong's definition (H5303) of נפל (NPHL, Nephil) as "bullies, tyrants". That definition and the ISBE explanation appear to confirm the theory that the Nephilim were human rather than the supernatural beings. It also seems like an accurate description of the behavior of those "giants".

Think about it: don't people who act like bullies or tyants act like Neanderthals? I seem to remember at least one kid from my High School that did.

[Bio-logical]

Think about it: don't people who act like bullies or tyants act like Neanderthals? I seem to remember at least one kid from my High School that did.

I think Neaderthals might take offence to that!

[Heterodoxus]

Think about it: don't people who act like bullies or tyants act like Neanderthals? I seem to remember at least one kid from my High School that did.

I think Neaderthals might take offence to that!

[center]
You talkin' about me?

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[Bio-logical]

The other aspect of the reading I think deserves discussion is that of the tower of Babel.

Why would God look at the accomplishment of his creations and seek to hinder it by confusing them with multiple languages?

This seems to me another instance of God's failure to (omnisce?) and forsee what his creations would or could do, and then a moment of fear in their ability. At this, God handicaps them for several thousand years (I believe we are approaching one world language [again] within a hundred years or so).

This seems to be one of the single most petty and cruel actions in all of the bible and for no reason other than how awesome we are.

Any thoughts?

[Heterodoxus]

The other aspect of the reading I think deserves discussion is that of the tower of Babel.

Why would God look at the accomplishment of his creations and seek to hinder it by confusing them with multiple languages?

This seems to me another instance of God's failure to (omnisce?) and forsee what his creations would or could do, and then a moment of fear in their ability. At this, God handicaps them for several thousand years (I believe we are approaching one world language [again] within a hundred years or so).

This seems to be one of the single most petty and cruel actions in all of the bible and for no reason other than how awesome we are.

Any thoughts?

11:6-7 -- the Biblegod views with contempt what the people, united in purpose and language, were attempting to accomplish. Perhaps anticipating that the small group of people loyal to Biblegod might get caught up in the spirit of the movement, and perhaps thinking that the mass of people might not be able to work together if they couldn't clearly communicate with one another (again hinting that Biblegod is not "all-knowing"), Biblegod scrambles their words.

This act of divine reprograming of the peoples' speech effectively takes their minds off their common objective and all work stops. Their collective oneness, their united work effort, has all been for nothing--nada, naught, zero, zip, zilch--and the people loyal to Biblegod are saved and live happily ever after, singing:

• "This is my story,
  this is my song;
  praising my Savior,
  all the day long."

[center]Fini[/center]

[Cathar1950]

The other aspect of the reading I think deserves discussion is that of the tower of Babel.

Why would God look at the accomplishment of his creations and seek to hinder it by confusing them with multiple languages?

This seems to me another instance of God's failure to (omnisce?) and forsee what his creations would or could do, and then a moment of fear in their ability. At this, God handicaps them for several thousand years (I believe we are approaching one world language [again] within a hundred years or so).

This seems to be one of the single most petty and cruel actions in all of the bible and for no reason other than how awesome we are.

Any thoughts?

You would think the gods would know the limits and no way was anyone going to build anything that could reach to heaven. I guess any "stupid" thing might be a good qualifier. I would think there would be a good laugh in heaven.
It doesn't seem to be a very good myth at explaining why we have so many languages except maybe the gods saw us as competition and being we were mortal doesn't seem to be enough.
I would like to know when the various elements in the story were added.

[Heterodoxus]

I would like to know when the various elements in the story were added.

Having not studied the origins of various Bible stories for decades, I'm gonna shoot from the hip here and venture a guess that the Tower of Babel was perhaps included into Genesis during the 11th-10th century BCE from the Yahwist writings (J document).

But, again, I'm uncertain of that dating. If anyone knows otherwise, go for it!

[Bio-logical]

It seems we have exhausted discussion on this particular reading, so I feel it is time we move on.

The next reading, although long, I believe must be taken as a whole.

We will be reading the book of Job, the new thread based upon that reading is here.

[myth-one.com]

And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

These verses to me indicate that they tell the stories of angels impregnating women.

Angels do not impregnate women sexually. Only two body types are described in the Bible, natural and spiritual:

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (I Corinthians 15:44)

Each body type requires a separate and distinct type of birth:

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (John 3:6)

That which is born of the flesh and the spirit as angels and women would be, is undefined in the Bible. But is there one exception to that verse? Mary was "found with child of the Holy Ghost" (Matthew 1:18) and still a virgin. Was Jesus a "conception" in our understanding of the word? The Bible states that Jesus was born of the flesh as flesh so that He could die for us. He could not die for our sins as an everlasting spiritual being. Was that an impregnating of a fleshy body by a spiritual body? Even if so, it was not sexual.

Also, the Bible sanctions sex within marriage, and angels do not marry. The Saducees attempted to trick Jesus by posing a question whereby one woman had multiple husbands which predeceased her. When she became a member of the Kingdom of God, which earthly husband would become her husband in the Kingdom of Heaven? Jesus answered:

For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven. (Mark 12:25)

Angels live forever, so they have no reason to reproduce, thus no need to marry, and thus no need for sex (I was disappointed too!).

Or was it perhaps that God reserved the fairest for himself?

Again, no sex in heaven. There are no heterosexuals, homosexuals, or bisexuals in the Kingdom of Heaven. When someone makes the statement that there are "No (fill-in-the-blank)sexuals in heaven," they are correct.

[myth-one.com]

The other aspect of the reading I think deserves discussion is that of the tower of Babel.

Why would God look at the accomplishment of his creations and seek to hinder it by confusing them with multiple languages?
Any thoughts?

And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech. (Genesis 11:1)

And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth. And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they began to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. (Genesis 11:4-6)

Why was God concerned? If they could accomplish this, they might be able to accomplish anything they imagined. So what? Well, man can imagine some horrible things and the six-thousand-year plan for mankind had only begun.

For example, what if man had reached a state of development such that he produced nuclear weapons in 945 instead of 1945. What might have happened? Man would have the means to destroy himself and the earth a thousand years before God's six-thousand-year plan called for that possibility. Jesus will return for the elect's sake just in time to prevent this total destruction. The "elect" are the Christians. Man was too far ahead of schedule. Why? Because they all spoke a common language. They did not have the confusion imposed by multiple languages which we have today. What did God do?

Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. (Genesis 11:7)

It was brilliant! Suppose you are in a group of one thousand people who all understand and speak English. Suddenly, eight hundred chosen at random cannot understand or speak English. Perhaps two hundred understand and speak French, another two hundred Spanish, another two hundred German, and another two hundred Japanese. What would be the effect? Instead of having one group of a thousand there would soon be five competing groups of two hundred. Each group would believe they were the only sane group as the others spoke gibberish, or babel. That is exactly what occurred:

So the Lord scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city. Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the Lord did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the Lord scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth. (Genesis 11:8-9)

God introduced foreign languages into the world and this worked as a separator which divided mankind into many different, competing groups. It was a case of divide and conquer. Today there remain problems due to language whenever multiple countries work on one project. Anytime translations are required there is a risk of mistranslation. Even if there are no translation errors, the effort requires energy and time which could be applied directly to the project if all spoke one language.

Most, if not all, of the translations of the original scriptures into our Bibles of today contain errors! This would not be the case if there had always been one common language throughout the world. With one common world language there would never have been any need to translate the original scriptures as inspired by God, and consequently there would be no translation errors! When will this situation be corrected? When Jesus returns the second time, all will return to a single language:

For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the Lord, to serve him with one consent. (Zephaniah 3:9)

Incredible, huh?
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