The Intercession of the Saints

[Joshua Patrick]

Fundamentalists often challenge the Catholic practice of asking saints and angels to pray on our behalf. But the Bible directs us to invoke those in heaven and ask them to pray with us.

Thus, in Psalm 103 we pray, "Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!" (Ps. 103:20–21). And in the opening verses of Psalms 148 we pray, "Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!"

Not only do those in heaven pray with us, they also pray for us. In the book of Revelation, John sees that "the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8). Thus the saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth.

Angels do the same thing: "[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" (Rev. 8:3–4).

Jesus himself warned us not to offend small children, because their guardian angels have guaranteed intercessory access to the Father: "See that you do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven" (Matt. 18:10).

Because he is the only God-man and the Mediator of the New Covenant, Jesus is the only mediator between man and God (1 Tim. 2:5), but this in no way means we cannot or should not ask our fellow Christians to pray with us and for us (1 Tim. 2:1–4). In particular, we should ask the intercession of those Christians in heaven, who have already had their sanctification completed, for "[t]he prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects" (Jas. 5:16).

As the following passages show, the early Church Fathers not only clearly recognized the biblical teaching that those in heaven can and do intercede for us, but they also applied this teaching in their own daily prayer life.

Hermas:
"[The Shepherd said:] ‘But those who are weak and slothful in prayer, hesitate to ask anything from the Lord; but the Lord is full of compassion, and gives without fail to all who ask him. But you, [Hermas,] having been strengthened by the holy angel [you saw], and having obtained from him such intercession, and not being slothful, why do not you ask of the Lord understanding, and receive it from him?’" (The Shepherd 3:5:4 [A.D. 80]).

Clement of Alexandria:
"In this way is he [the true Christian] always pure for prayer. He also prays in the society of angels, as being already of angelic rank, and he is never out of their holy keeping; and though he pray alone, he has the choir of the saints standing with him [in prayer]" (Miscellanies 7:12 [A.D. 208]).

Ephraim the Syrian:
"You victorious martyrs who endured torments gladly for the sake of the God and Savior, you who have boldness of speech toward the Lord himself, you saints, intercede for us who are timid and sinful men, full of sloth, that the grace of Christ may come upon us, and enlighten the hearts of all of us so that we may love him" (Commentary on Mark [A.D. 370]).

"Remember me, you heirs of God, you brethren of Christ; supplicate the Savior earnestly for me, that I may be freed through Christ from him that fights against me day by day" (The Fear at the End of Life [A.D. 370]).

[Darias]

I grew up in a Baptist Protestant household with Pentecostal leanings (currently non-denominational with Baptist Doctrinal leanings).

I was taught that Christ was our mediator - not Mary or the saints (saints as in apostles - or saints created by the Catholic Church). And that I shouldn't pray to dead relatives and the departed -- but only to God, via His Spirit of truth, and in the name of Christ

This is largely based upon the following:

I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.

_____
John 14:16-17

For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time. For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

Therefore I want the men in every place to pray, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and dissension.

_____
1 Timothy 2:5-8

In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

_____
Romans 8:26-27

[center]===O===[/center]

Because he is the only God-man and the Mediator of the New Covenant, Jesus is the only mediator between man and God (1 Tim. 2:5), but this in no way means we cannot or should not ask our fellow Christians to pray with us and for us (1 Tim. 2:1–4). In particular, we should ask the intercession of those Christians in heaven, who have already had their sanctification completed, for "[t]he prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects" (Jas. 5:16).

Of course Christians can pray for each other. And yes "a righteous man's prayers are effective" because he is righteous and does good in addition to his prayers.

But how does "it's okay to pray to and for dead people" follow from that?

The Old Testament specifically forbids consulting with the dead, as Saul did.

Then Saul disguised himself by putting on other clothes, and went, he and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night; and he said, "Conjure up for me, please, and bring up for me whom I shall name to you." But the woman said to him, "Behold, you know what Saul has done, how he has cut off those who are mediums and spiritists from the land. Why are you then laying a snare for my life to bring about my death?"Saul vowed to her by the LORD, saying, "As the LORD lives, no punishment shall come upon you for this thing." Then the woman said, "Whom shall I bring up for you?" And he said, "Bring up Samuel for me." When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice; and the woman spoke to Saul, saying, "Why have you deceived me? For you are Saul." The king said to her, "Do not be afraid; but what do you see?" And the woman said to Saul, "I see a divine being coming up out of the earth." He said to her, "What is his form?" And she said, "An old man is coming up, and he is wrapped with a robe." And Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground and did homage. Then Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?" And Saul answered, "I am greatly distressed; for the Philistines are waging war against me, and God has departed from me and no longer answers me, either through prophets or by dreams; therefore I have called you, that you may make known to me what I should do." Samuel said, "Why then do you ask me. . .?

There is no reference in the Bible that instructs us to seek intercession with departed believers. This is a religious tradition; I respect your conviction in following it, but it is not mine.

I do not recognize Roman Catholic Church fathers as authoritative religious sources. I simply do not share their deduction and conviction.

Might I also point out that saints, in the New Testament, refers to Christian believers. "Saints" in the Catholic Church are famous, and usually departed Christians who have been placed on a pedestal, in recognition for their good works and or sacrifices.


On a side note when our family was trying to sell our old house, a friend of my moms told her to bury a statue of St. Joseph in our yard to make the house sell faster.

That seems to me like superstition; for civility's sake I won't call it idolatry -- but it's just too much for my tastes.

Such practices remind me of Hinduism and other Eastern traditions - figurines and prayers to departed elders -- it's all a bit paganesque IMO.


Now, I ask for your forgiveness if I have offended your beliefs. That wasn't my intention, as I was just explaining my Protestantism.

One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only. The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him. Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God. For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself; for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord; therefore whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. For to this end Christ died and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and of the living. . . .

Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this—not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother’s way. I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. . . .

The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God.

_____
Romans 14:2-9, 13-14, 22

I wouldn't say that "prayer to the departed believers" is 'unclean' in my eyes -- but it is not my conviction. I don't see it as a tenant of Christianity.

[Joshua Patrick]

I was taught that Christ was our mediator - not Mary or the saints (saints as in apostles - or saints created by the Catholic Church). And that I shouldn't pray to dead relatives and the departed -- but only to God, via His Spirit of truth, and in the name of Christ

"For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" (1 Tim. 2:5).

But asking one person to pray for you in no way violates Christ’s mediatorship, as can be seen from considering the way in which Christ is a mediator. First, Christ is a unique mediator between man and God because he is the only person who is both God and man. He is the only bridge between the two, the only God-man. But that role as mediator is not compromised in the least by the fact that others intercede for us. Furthermore, Christ is a unique mediator between God and man because he is the Mediator of the New Covenant (Heb. 9:15, 12:24), just as Moses was the mediator (Greek mesitas) of the Old Covenant (Gal. 3:19–20).

The intercession of fellow Christians—which is what the saints in heaven are—also clearly does not interfere with Christ’s unique mediatorship because in the four verses immediately preceding 1 Timothy 2:5, Paul says that Christians should interceed: "First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and pleasing to God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2:1–4). Clearly, then, intercessory prayers offered by Christians on behalf of others is something "good and pleasing to God," not something infringing on Christ’s role as mediator.

http://www.catholic.com/library/Praying ... Saints.asp

(saints as in apostles - or saints created by the Catholic Church)

Saints are not created.

But how does "it's okay to pray to and for dead people" follow from that?

The Old Testament specifically forbids consulting with the dead, as Saul did.

Why do you think those Christians are dead?,Does it not state that the saints in heaven are alive and recieving our prayers?
Did not Christ come and die for the sins of man, and built the ministry upon earth to administer that sacrifice in the Holy Mass?

There is no reference in the Bible that instructs us to seek intercession with departed believers.

If your talking about praying to the saints in heaven, then yes

I do not recognize Roman Catholic Church fathers as authoritative religious sources. I simply do not share their deduction and conviction.

Then the Apostles are not authoritative religious sources, nor are they students, and all of the Apostolic succession.

Might I also point out that saints, in the New Testament, refers to Christian believers. "Saints" in the Catholic Church are famous, and usually departed Christians who have been placed on a pedestal, in recognition for their good works and or sacrifices.

May I also point out your wrong. I think you should go check OFFICIAL church teaching on these matters.

On a side note when our family was trying to sell our old house, a friend of my moms told her to bury a statue of St. Joseph in our yard to make the house sell faster.

That seems to me like superstition; for civility's sake I won't call it idolatry -- but it's just too much for my tastes.

Such practices remind me of Hinduism and other Eastern traditions - figurines and prayers to departed elders -- it's all a bit paganesque IMO.

Whats this got to do with the Catholic Church, it teaches nothing about burying a statue of St.Joseph, this is anti-Catholic propaganda preached by Protestants, to steer Christians away from the House of David!

[Darias]

[center]
===1===[/center]

I was taught that Christ was our mediator - not Mary or the saints (saints as in apostles - or saints created by the Catholic Church). And that I shouldn't pray to dead relatives and the departed -- but only to God, via His Spirit of truth, and in the name of Christ

"For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" (1 Tim. 2:5).

But asking one person to pray for you in no way violates Christ’s mediatorship, as can be seen from considering the way in which Christ is a mediator. First, Christ is a unique mediator between man and God because he is the only person who is both God and man. He is the only bridge between the two, the only God-man. But that role as mediator is not compromised in the least by the fact that others intercede for us. Furthermore, Christ is a unique mediator between God and man because he is the Mediator of the New Covenant (Heb. 9:15, 12:24), just as Moses was the mediator (Greek mesitas) of the Old Covenant (Gal. 3:19–20).

The intercession of fellow Christians—which is what the saints in heaven are—also clearly does not interfere with Christ’s unique mediatorship because in the four verses immediately preceding 1 Timothy 2:5, Paul says that Christians should interceed: "First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and pleasing to God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2:1–4). Clearly, then, intercessory prayers offered by Christians on behalf of others is something "good and pleasing to God," not something infringing on Christ’s role as mediator.

http://www.catholic.com/library/Praying ... Saints.asp

1.) Christ's status of mediator is not solely dependent upon how he is defined by Trinitarians. He is our mediator because of what He did - specifically, his death. He opened the way to God by removing the chains of legalism brought about by human institutions. He is also our mediator in heaven, and by that I mean, our representative -- the one who answers for us to God.

2.) The Bible makes no mention of asking departed Christians for help. It does not necessarily remove Christ's title of mediator, but it runs the risk of dependence and love for Saints rather than God.

3.) When 1 Tim. 2:1–4 speaks of high positions, or high places, it does not refer to heaven, but rather to earthly social position. IMO, there is a difference between asking others to pray for you, and seeking intercession with spirits.

1 Tim. 2:1–4 seems to be saying Christians, live peacefully and respectfully - pray for the success of your rulers -- rather than be revolutionary or violent. This falls in line with what Christ said "give to Caesar what belongs to him, but give to God what is his." The early church was supposed to be pacifist and loving. When Christ's teachings became a religious hierarchical system deeply embedded in politics -- that's when things started getting bloody.


[center]
===2===[/center]

(saints as in apostles - or saints created by the Catholic Church)

Saints are not created.

You are correct. They are recognized. There's a difference and my wording implied otherwise. I still think our understanding of what a saint is, is different. I believe that all believers are saints. I do not believe they are holy by any means. There are good saints, like Mother Teresa, and bad saints -- erm, for lack of a better example, let's just say me. It's a fair label if my life is compared to that of Mother Teresa's.


[center]
===3===[/center]

But how does "it's okay to pray to and for dead people" follow from that?

The Old Testament specifically forbids consulting with the dead, as Saul did.

Why do you think those Christians are dead?,Does it not state that the saints in heaven are alive and recieving our prayers?
Did not Christ come and die for the sins of man, and built the ministry upon earth to administer that sacrifice in the Holy Mass?

1.) Because their bodies are 6 feet under.

2.) The Bible says that departed believers are in paradise with God. There is no where in scripture where it says they receive our prayers. there is no where in scripture where it is stated or implied that we should pray to them or seek their help, or ask them to pray to God for us.

3.) There is a reason for this. In heaven, all sorrow is taken away from them. They don't remember the pain they went through on earth. They probably aren't looking down on us, but I do not know for certain. Assuming there is an afterlife and a heaven, it's probably felt like 2 seconds since Paul was beheaded. Time is non existent in heaven. Even if they are actively listening to us pray, how can they help us? If they are just going to pray to God anyway, why ask them to pray for us when we can pray directly to God via Christ instead?

Prayer to God is a fundamental aspect of a relationship with Him. It's like talking. It's much like a marriage. If you are always asking your friend or your lawyer to speak to your wife for you on your behalf, that will not cultivate a personal relationship. I imagine that's how it works with God as well, IMO.

4.) I believe Christ came to die for our sins and enable mankind to have a direct relationship with God, in lieu of legalism and organized religion.

I do not believe in Transubstantiation. I do not believe that communion saves one's soul. It is a symbolic act of belief and remembrance of Christ. It is a tradition, much like baptism, that does nothing to save the soul or better the person in and of itself, IMO.

Christ said to do it in remembrance of him. He was speaking symbolically as he did all his life in parables etc. He did not say eat my flesh and drink my blood and you will be saved.

Now, I have been Baptized, not as a baby, but as a child. I made that decision to proclaim that I was a Christian. I still take communion. My church usually offers it once per month. Some churches offer it every time they meet, but that can take away from the, for lack of a better term, specialness of doing it.

But again, I do not consider it a holy act. I do not believe it makes me holy. I do not believe it brings me closer to salvation. But it reminds me of Jesus, how he lived and how he died. And it does bring me closer to God in a personal sense. But, IMO, it is a tradition and I do not have to do it for God to save me.



[center]
===4===[/center]

There is no reference in the Bible that instructs us to seek intercession with departed believers.

If your talking about praying to the saints in heaven, then yes

1.) There are no biblical spiritual doctrines that tell us to seek out the dead -- righteous or otherwise -- for help. Saul did this, and the Bible says that God wasn't too happy about it. I don't care if the Pope says it's a fundamental of Christianity, I'm not going to break out an Ouija board.

2.) I suppose the doctrine of seeking intercession with the Saints comes in part from a section of James 15:16, in tandem with accepting of tribal pagan traditions of ancestor veneration (dead or alive). There is nothing inherently wrong with this, as it is a sign of pluralism and integrating of cultures over the years.

But if you read James 15.16 in context, it is not talking about praying to for or with departed Christians -- but only the living on earth.

Is anyone among you sick? Then he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him. Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.

Note, when this passage speaks of "elders" it means leaders; dead Christians can't anoint anyone with oil.

When it says the prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much - it is a continuation of the previous thought.

Praying for one another and admitting their failures to one another encourage unity and bonding and brotherhood.

Nothing from this passage suggests or implies yes, I need help from my dead grandma because she was a good person, maybe she can convince God to help me with my specific needs.

This is why I don't really like taking scripture out of context; this is how doctrines are born -- Protestant ones: Calvanism, Arminianism -- or various Catholic ones



[center]
===5===[/center]

I do not recognize Roman Catholic Church fathers as authoritative religious sources. I simply do not share their deduction and conviction.

Then the Apostles are not authoritative religious sources, nor are they students, and all of the Apostolic succession.

1.) Of course, the Apostles were not students of the Apostolic succession doctrine. This doctrine is a product of the Catholic Church.

So how then does that make the original followers of Christ less authoritative than Father Mike down the street?

This is a major issue of contention between Catholics and Protestants -- that Catholics would hold Religious Opinion to that of equal or superior status than that of the gospels -- who many Protestants see as the inerrant word of God.

I do not believe the Bible is inerrant. It has contradictions. It has immoral customs. It contains unscientific ideas: all of which are products of errant men. This doesn't mean it was any less inspired by God however. It just accounts for a lot of the more intolerant scriptures.

But when it comes to spiritual advice, I seek counsel of the scriptures, not teachings of The Church -- not tradition.

To say that the Apostles are not authoritative allows Christians to believe that "anything the infallible Pope or Church authorities say or teach" is how they should live out their Christianity. It places religious fatwa on a higher pedestal than scripture. It makes the Church the mediator between God and man. Prayers, rites, confessionals, requirements, Church attendance, tithing -- all doctrines of churches Catholic or otherwise. I do not see them as a stairway to heaven - they are more like a treadmill to God.


[center]===6===[/center]

Might I also point out that saints, in the New Testament, refers to Christian believers. "Saints" in the Catholic Church are famous, and usually departed Christians who have been placed on a pedestal, in recognition for their good works and or sacrifices.

May I also point out your wrong. I think you should go check OFFICIAL church teaching on these matters.

1.) If you have evidence that shows otherwise, please present it. My information is supported below:

The Catholic Church teaches that it does not, in fact, make anyone a saint. Rather, it recognizes a saint.[10] In the Church, the title of Saint refers to a person who has been formally canonized (officially recognized) by the Catholic Church, and is therefore believed to be in Heaven.
By this definition there are many people believed to be in Heaven who have not been formally declared as saints (most typically due to their obscurity and the involved process of formal canonization) but who may nevertheless generically be referred to as saints. All in Heaven are, in the technical sense, saints, since they are believed to be completely perfected in holiness.
_____
SOURCE

[center]
===7===[/center]

On a side note when our family was trying to sell our old house, a friend of my moms told her to bury a statue of St. Joseph in our yard to make the house sell faster.

That seems to me like superstition; for civility's sake I won't call it idolatry -- but it's just too much for my tastes.

Such practices remind me of Hinduism and other Eastern traditions - figurines and prayers to departed elders -- it's all a bit paganesque IMO.

Whats this got to do with the Catholic Church, it teaches nothing about burying a statue of St.Joseph, this is anti-Catholic propaganda preached by Protestants, to steer Christians away from the House of David!

1.) I am not making anything up. To suggest whatever I post as "propaganda" is simply unfounded.

2.) My mom's friend really did ask us to do this. She was a devout and sincere Catholic. My mom didn't like the idea, but I guess that goes along the line of whether or not Christians feel that "eating meat sacrificed to idols" is okay or not.

3.) Venerating relics and figurines of saints is not propaganda, it is practiced by a number of Catholics - both now and in the past. It is a tradition.

A saint may be designated as a patron saint of a particular cause or profession, or invoked against specific illnesses or disasters, sometimes by popular custom and sometimes by official statements of the Magisterium.[17] Saints are not thought to have power of their own, but only that granted by God. Relics of saints are respected in a similar manner to holy images and icons. The practices of past centuries in venerating relics of saints for healing is taken from the early Church.[18]
_____
SOURCE

4.) Here is a Catholic source that is apologetic, but not entirely supportive of the tradition of burring St. Joseph. This is far from mere fabrication -- from either myself or the Protestants

Burying a Statue of St. Joseph to Sell One's Home

Issue: What does the Church say about the custom of burying a statue of St. Joseph for the purpose of selling one’s home?

Response: The Church teaches that the faithful should pray to the saints for their intercession. The custom of burying a statue of St. Joseph for the purpose of selling one’s home can be in harmony with the teachings of the Church when grounded in prayer for St. Joseph’s intercession. At the same time, the Church cautions against superstitious beliefs such as attributing some power to the act of burying the statue.

Discussion: St. Joseph—patron saint of the Universal Church, patron of workers, and protector of virgins—is also the patron saint of the family and of household needs. Many have trusted in him as a powerful intercessor.

The origin of burying a statue of St. Joseph for the purpose of selling one’s home is uncertain. Some say the tradition can be traced back hundreds of years to St. Teresa of Avila, who invoked St. Joseph’s intercession in order to obtain land for new convents. According to this tradition, St. Teresa encouraged her companions to bury their St. Joseph medals as a symbol of devotion. Over time, the practice of burying medals evolved into that of burying statues. Today, some organizations promote this practice and have developed complete "Underground Real Estate Agent" kits. Many home-sellers and real estate agents nationwide continue this tradition.

Burying a statue of St. Joseph for the purpose of selling one’s home is an action similar to wearing a saint’s medal or a scapular, having religious art in one’s home, or placing a statue of a saint in one’s yard—it is an outward sign of an inward devotion. Ideally, people who turn to this custom do so as a symbol of their devotion—an external sign of their trust in St. Joseph as a powerful intercessor. They demonstrate their faith in the power of prayer and the communion of saints. The individual consecrates the ground in the name of St. Joseph and asks him to intercede with God the Father on his or her behalf for the sale of the home.

The Church neither encourages nor discourages this practice. She recognizes that different forms of piety and popular devotion can be beneficial to believers, helping them to grow in faith, trust, and personal holiness. While such practices do not replace the liturgical life of the Church, they do extend it (see Catechism of the Catholic Church, no. 1675). The tradition of burying a statue of St. Joseph is rooted in the practice of intercessory prayer, which in turn is rooted in the mystery of the communion of saints. Asking for the intercession of the saints is a healthy discipline that the Church promotes.

_____
For the full article, read SOURCE

5.) You and I might not particularly approve of such practices. But to deny that they exist, or to suggest I'm spouting Propaganda, is wrong.

These practices take place whether we like them or not. The Catholic Church doesn't stamp out these practices, and Kudos to them for that -- they have evolved into a much more tolerant institution over the past several centuries.


6.) The following is my opinion and my conviction as a Christian believer:

I don't venerate Mary or any "recognized saints." I don't ask mother Teressa for her prayers, but I do admire what she did. I don't believe Mary is the mother of God; she was just a human being whom Jesus referred to as "woman" rather than "mother."

I don't recognize the Pope, an elected official, as infallible -- especially this one (given his past and cover ups).

I don't need my pastor, or any priest, or whoever, to intercede for me - or ask God's forgiveness of my sins. When I say "Father forgive me" - I say it to God.

I can pray directly to God because of Christ. I can ask for forgiveness of sins without a giant religious institution mediating the process. I don't need angels or departed humans, I need God.

Jesus did not come to earth to establish organized religion. Christ came here to show people how to live and how to love, and to show people the way to God.

The Church, in its original sense, meant "the body of believers." It is not a house of doctrine; it is not a building or a religious hierarchical institution - it is simply a body of believers.

I do not need any church, Catholic, Protestant, or Mormon, for my salvation. I don't need religion. I don't need tradition. I don't need legalism. I don't need Mary. I don't need saints. I need God.

But if my fellow believers find that necessary to their relationship with God, they are welcome to embrace those teachings.

Our Christianity should not be defined by sects, doctrines, and churches - or lack thereof.


7.) Obviously, we're going to disagree heavily. However, I'm a Christian. You're a Christian. I don't have to listen to your Pope; you don't have to listen to our church's worship band.

Sometimes I wish Christians had an equivalent of Asalaamu Alaikum.