Who was Cain/Cainan

[mitty]

Adam begat CAIN who begat ENOCH who begat IRAD who begat MEHUJAEL who begat METHUSAEL who begat LAMECH.

Adam's great grandson CAINAN begat MAHALALEEL who begat JARED who begat ENOCH who begat METHUSELAH who begat LAMECH who begat Noah.

These two lines look to be the same with a small shuffle in order and if you consider CAIN=CAINAN, IRAD=JARED, MEHUJAEL=MAHALALEEL, METHUSAEL=METHUSELAH.

Does this coincidence arise from a number of writers who contributed to Genesis recording the same oral history and myths of these people but somehow in the collation of the stories into one book things got stuffed up a bit. Having done my own family tree I know how frustating it is with written records and errors in those records, so it would be even more difficult to formally record an oral history into a written form without making errors.

So who was Cain/Cainan. Was he Adam's son or great grandson? If the latter then it makes Joshua's and Yahveh's excuse for Joshua's crimes-against-humanity (Joshua 6:21 8:26) pretty pathetic if the victims of these atrocities were also descendants of Adam's son Seth and not some cursed tribe descended from a fratricider. Those excuses are the same as used by suicide bombers who blame their crimes on the same bronze-age god. So was Joshua also responsible for the Book of Joshua and thus able to explain away why he slaughter innocent people including children. This account alone would be enough for disbelieving this fairy tale involving the supernatural.

[The Word]

Adam begat CAIN who begat ENOCH who begat IRAD who begat MEHUJAEL who begat METHUSAEL who begat LAMECH.

Adam's great grandson CAINAN begat MAHALALEEL who begat JARED who begat ENOCH who begat METHUSELAH who begat LAMECH who begat Noah.

These two lines look to be the same with a small shuffle in order and if you consider CAIN=CAINAN, IRAD=JARED, MEHUJAEL=MAHALALEEL, METHUSAEL=METHUSELAH.

Does this coincidence arise from a number of writers who contributed to Genesis recording the same oral history and myths of these people but somehow in the collation of the stories into one book things got stuffed up a bit. Having done my own family tree I know how frustating it is with written records and errors in those records, so it would be even more difficult to formally record an oral history into a written form without making errors.

So who was Cain/Cainan. Was he Adam's son or great grandson? If the latter then it makes Joshua's and Yahveh's excuse for Joshua's crimes-against-humanity (Joshua 6:21 8:26) pretty pathetic if the victims of these atrocities were also descendants of Adam's son Seth and not some cursed tribe descended from a fratricider. Those excuses are the same as used by suicide bombers who blame their crimes on the same bronze-age god. So was Joshua also responsible for the Book of Joshua and thus able to explain away why he slaughter innocent people including children. This account alone would be enough for disbelieving this fairy tale involving the supernatural.

God doesn't care if you know about Cain and Abel, anyway. Do you really think you're on the path to the truth?

[Cathar1950]

Adam begat CAIN who begat ENOCH who begat IRAD who begat MEHUJAEL who begat METHUSAEL who begat LAMECH.

Adam's great grandson CAINAN begat MAHALALEEL who begat JARED who begat ENOCH who begat METHUSELAH who begat LAMECH who begat Noah.

These two lines look to be the same with a small shuffle in order and if you consider CAIN=CAINAN, IRAD=JARED, MEHUJAEL=MAHALALEEL, METHUSAEL=METHUSELAH.

Does this coincidence arise from a number of writers who contributed to Genesis recording the same oral history and myths of these people but somehow in the collation of the stories into one book things got stuffed up a bit. Having done my own family tree I know how frustating it is with written records and errors in those records, so it would be even more difficult to formally record an oral history into a written form without making errors.

So who was Cain/Cainan. Was he Adam's son or great grandson? If the latter then it makes Joshua's and Yahveh's excuse for Joshua's crimes-against-humanity (Joshua 6:21 8:26) pretty pathetic if the victims of these atrocities were also descendants of Adam's son Seth and not some cursed tribe descended from a fratricider. Those excuses are the same as used by suicide bombers who blame their crimes on the same bronze-age god. So was Joshua also responsible for the Book of Joshua and thus able to explain away why he slaughter innocent people including children. This account alone would be enough for disbelieving this fairy tale involving the supernatural.

God doesn't care if you know about Cain and Abel, anyway. Do you really think you're on the path to the truth?

When you start reading the material, seeing the problems and contradictions and start asking questions you are already on one of the many paths to truths.

How is it you think you know what God cares or doesn't care about, Assuming God?
The genealogies are mixed up because of different sources and different purposes. I suppose that is a good enough reason to have some background in the history and writings as well as theologies because a plan reading of the scriptures is anything but plan. . Even Abraham could very well have been the exalted Father sometimes called the Elohim which were the spirits of the ancestors as they have roots in ancestor worship where gods become ancestors and ancestors become gods.

[The Word]

Adam begat CAIN who begat ENOCH who begat IRAD who begat MEHUJAEL who begat METHUSAEL who begat LAMECH.

Adam's great grandson CAINAN begat MAHALALEEL who begat JARED who begat ENOCH who begat METHUSELAH who begat LAMECH who begat Noah.

These two lines look to be the same with a small shuffle in order and if you consider CAIN=CAINAN, IRAD=JARED, MEHUJAEL=MAHALALEEL, METHUSAEL=METHUSELAH.

Does this coincidence arise from a number of writers who contributed to Genesis recording the same oral history and myths of these people but somehow in the collation of the stories into one book things got stuffed up a bit. Having done my own family tree I know how frustating it is with written records and errors in those records, so it would be even more difficult to formally record an oral history into a written form without making errors.

So who was Cain/Cainan. Was he Adam's son or great grandson? If the latter then it makes Joshua's and Yahveh's excuse for Joshua's crimes-against-humanity (Joshua 6:21 8:26) pretty pathetic if the victims of these atrocities were also descendants of Adam's son Seth and not some cursed tribe descended from a fratricider. Those excuses are the same as used by suicide bombers who blame their crimes on the same bronze-age god. So was Joshua also responsible for the Book of Joshua and thus able to explain away why he slaughter innocent people including children. This account alone would be enough for disbelieving this fairy tale involving the supernatural.

God doesn't care if you know about Cain and Abel, anyway. Do you really think you're on the path to the truth?

When you start reading the material, seeing the problems and contradictions and start asking questions you are already on one of the many paths to truths.

How is it you think you know what God cares or doesn't care about, Assuming God?
The genealogies are mixed up because of different sources and different purposes. I suppose that is a good enough reason to have some background in the history and writings as well as theologies because a plan reading of the scriptures is anything but plan. . Even Abraham could very well have been the exalted Father sometimes called the Elohim which were the spirits of the ancestors as they have roots in ancestor worship where gods become ancestors and ancestors become gods.

There is no truth to be found by the unchosen ones. That is given to those he chose before creation.

Religious sinners can't understand this but here's an attempt to use the scriptures for you to see that I can't lie.

We chosen ones receive the truth after we're made sinless, then we can understand the scriptures.

I Colossians 1:
15: He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation;
16: for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities -- all things were created through him and for him.
17: He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
18: He is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning, the first-born from the dead, that in everything he might be pre-eminent.
19: For in him all the fulness of God was pleased to dwell,


John 1
1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2: He was in the beginning with God;
3: all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.
4: In him was life, and the life was the light of men.
5: The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

Ephesians 1:
3: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
4: even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him.
5: He destined us in love to be his sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
6: to the praise of his glorious grace which he freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.

Romans 8:
28: We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him, who are called according to his purpose
29: For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren.
30: And those whom he predestined he also called and those whom he called; he also justified; and those whom he justified; he also glorified.

II Thesalonians 2:
13: But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God chose you from the beginning to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.
14: To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

John 15
16: You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide; so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.

[mitty]

Adam begat CAIN who begat ENOCH who begat IRAD who begat MEHUJAEL who begat METHUSAEL who begat LAMECH.

Adam's great grandson CAINAN begat MAHALALEEL who begat JARED who begat ENOCH who begat METHUSELAH who begat LAMECH who begat Noah.

These two lines look to be the same with a small shuffle in order and if you consider CAIN=CAINAN, IRAD=JARED, MEHUJAEL=MAHALALEEL, METHUSAEL=METHUSELAH.

Does this coincidence arise from a number of writers who contributed to Genesis recording the same oral history and myths of these people but somehow in the collation of the stories into one book things got stuffed up a bit. Having done my own family tree I know how frustating it is with written records and errors in those records, so it would be even more difficult to formally record an oral history into a written form without making errors.

So who was Cain/Cainan. Was he Adam's son or great grandson? If the latter then it makes Joshua's and Yahveh's excuse for Joshua's crimes-against-humanity (Joshua 6:21 8:26) pretty pathetic if the victims of these atrocities were also descendants of Adam's son Seth and not some cursed tribe descended from a fratricider. Those excuses are the same as used by suicide bombers who blame their crimes on the same bronze-age god. So was Joshua also responsible for the Book of Joshua and thus able to explain away why he slaughter innocent people including children. This account alone would be enough for disbelieving this fairy tale involving the supernatural.

God doesn't care if you know about Cain and Abel, anyway. Do you really think you're on the path to the truth?

When you start reading the material, seeing the problems and contradictions and start asking questions you are already on one of the many paths to truths.

How is it you think you know what God cares or doesn't care about, Assuming God?
The genealogies are mixed up because of different sources and different purposes. I suppose that is a good enough reason to have some background in the history and writings as well as theologies because a plan reading of the scriptures is anything but plan. . Even Abraham could very well have been the exalted Father sometimes called the Elohim which were the spirits of the ancestors as they have roots in ancestor worship where gods become ancestors and ancestors become gods.

Since the first books were susposedly written by Moses or writers around that time (around 1500 BC) they would've been recording an oral history of a family/tribal group with names perhaps going back to their first known tribal leader (Adam). Like the myths in this country of the creating rainbow-serpent, oral stories gets a bit exaggerated with people living a nonsensical 1000 years (probably measured in lunar years, not solar years) and natural events such as floods and earthquakes explained as supernatural events for imagined punishment by their daiety akin to the Aztec rituals of daily sacrifices to appease the sun-god. Using a more sensible life span (max 120 years as stated in Genesis 6:3) then Adam, if he existed, was living around 2000 BC which is a tradition of similar time span to other cultures in the area.

[mitty]

Adam begat CAIN who begat ENOCH who begat IRAD who begat MEHUJAEL who begat METHUSAEL who begat LAMECH.

Adam's great grandson CAINAN begat MAHALALEEL who begat JARED who begat ENOCH who begat METHUSELAH who begat LAMECH who begat Noah.

These two lines look to be the same with a small shuffle in order and if you consider CAIN=CAINAN, IRAD=JARED, MEHUJAEL=MAHALALEEL, METHUSAEL=METHUSELAH.

Does this coincidence arise from a number of writers who contributed to Genesis recording the same oral history and myths of these people but somehow in the collation of the stories into one book things got stuffed up a bit. Having done my own family tree I know how frustating it is with written records and errors in those records, so it would be even more difficult to formally record an oral history into a written form without making errors.

So who was Cain/Cainan. Was he Adam's son or great grandson? If the latter then it makes Joshua's and Yahveh's excuse for Joshua's crimes-against-humanity (Joshua 6:21 8:26) pretty pathetic if the victims of these atrocities were also descendants of Adam's son Seth and not some cursed tribe descended from a fratricider. Those excuses are the same as used by suicide bombers who blame their crimes on the same bronze-age god. So was Joshua also responsible for the Book of Joshua and thus able to explain away why he slaughter innocent people including children. This account alone would be enough for disbelieving this fairy tale involving the supernatural.

God doesn't care if you know about Cain and Abel, anyway. Do you really think you're on the path to the truth?

When you start reading the material, seeing the problems and contradictions and start asking questions you are already on one of the many paths to truths.

How is it you think you know what God cares or doesn't care about, Assuming God?
The genealogies are mixed up because of different sources and different purposes. I suppose that is a good enough reason to have some background in the history and writings as well as theologies because a plan reading of the scriptures is anything but plan. . Even Abraham could very well have been the exalted Father sometimes called the Elohim which were the spirits of the ancestors as they have roots in ancestor worship where gods become ancestors and ancestors become gods.

There is no truth to be found by the unchosen ones. That is given to those he chose before creation.

Religious sinners can't understand this but here's an attempt to use the scriptures for you to see that I can't lie.

We chosen ones receive the truth after we're made sinless, then we can understand the scriptures.

I Colossians 1:
15: He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation;
16: for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities -- all things were created through him and for him.
17: He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
18: He is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning, the first-born from the dead, that in everything he might be pre-eminent.
19: For in him all the fulness of God was pleased to dwell,


John 1
1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2: He was in the beginning with God;
3: all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.
4: In him was life, and the life was the light of men.
5: The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

Ephesians 1:
3: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
4: even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him.
5: He destined us in love to be his sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
6: to the praise of his glorious grace which he freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.

Romans 8:
28: We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him, who are called according to his purpose
29: For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren.
30: And those whom he predestined he also called and those whom he called; he also justified; and those whom he justified; he also glorified.

II Thesalonians 2:
13: But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God chose you from the beginning to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.
14: To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

John 15
16: You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide; so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.

Those quotes are all very well and mean nothing to me since they are still only words written by bronze/iron age male writers about their world as they perceived it and without the benefit of our scientific knowledge to explain things that were imagined as supernatural to them. As for the real Jesus (not the mythical one) he was someone whose mother was a girl called Mary, whose parents were susposedly Joachime and Anne (Gospel of James) and his biological father was perhaps Heli's son, Joseph (Luke 3:23), and his stepfather was Jacob's son, Joseph (Matt 1:12-16). Jesus was largely ignored by all but a few, and he was even ignored by his own family (Matt 13:55-8) including his own mother. Surely if there was anything extraordinary about Jesus, then his own family particularly his own mother would have noticed and acknowledged it. But they didn't, and he was observed by eyewitnesses to probably have a drinking problem (Matt 11:19) and it is likely he had a homosexual relationship with a particular disciple (John 13:23-5 19:26 21:20 Mark 14:51-2 Mark's secret gospel)

[The Word]

Adam begat CAIN who begat ENOCH who begat IRAD who begat MEHUJAEL who begat METHUSAEL who begat LAMECH.

Adam's great grandson CAINAN begat MAHALALEEL who begat JARED who begat ENOCH who begat METHUSELAH who begat LAMECH who begat Noah.

These two lines look to be the same with a small shuffle in order and if you consider CAIN=CAINAN, IRAD=JARED, MEHUJAEL=MAHALALEEL, METHUSAEL=METHUSELAH.

Does this coincidence arise from a number of writers who contributed to Genesis recording the same oral history and myths of these people but somehow in the collation of the stories into one book things got stuffed up a bit. Having done my own family tree I know how frustating it is with written records and errors in those records, so it would be even more difficult to formally record an oral history into a written form without making errors.

So who was Cain/Cainan. Was he Adam's son or great grandson? If the latter then it makes Joshua's and Yahveh's excuse for Joshua's crimes-against-humanity (Joshua 6:21 8:26) pretty pathetic if the victims of these atrocities were also descendants of Adam's son Seth and not some cursed tribe descended from a fratricider. Those excuses are the same as used by suicide bombers who blame their crimes on the same bronze-age god. So was Joshua also responsible for the Book of Joshua and thus able to explain away why he slaughter innocent people including children. This account alone would be enough for disbelieving this fairy tale involving the supernatural.

God doesn't care if you know about Cain and Abel, anyway. Do you really think you're on the path to the truth?

When you start reading the material, seeing the problems and contradictions and start asking questions you are already on one of the many paths to truths.

How is it you think you know what God cares or doesn't care about, Assuming God?
The genealogies are mixed up because of different sources and different purposes. I suppose that is a good enough reason to have some background in the history and writings as well as theologies because a plan reading of the scriptures is anything but plan. . Even Abraham could very well have been the exalted Father sometimes called the Elohim which were the spirits of the ancestors as they have roots in ancestor worship where gods become ancestors and ancestors become gods.

There is no truth to be found by the unchosen ones. That is given to those he chose before creation.

Religious sinners can't understand this but here's an attempt to use the scriptures for you to see that I can't lie.

We chosen ones receive the truth after we're made sinless, then we can understand the scriptures.

I Colossians 1:
15: He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation;
16: for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities -- all things were created through him and for him.
17: He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
18: He is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning, the first-born from the dead, that in everything he might be pre-eminent.
19: For in him all the fulness of God was pleased to dwell,


John 1
1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2: He was in the beginning with God;
3: all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.
4: In him was life, and the life was the light of men.
5: The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

Ephesians 1:
3: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
4: even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him.
5: He destined us in love to be his sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
6: to the praise of his glorious grace which he freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.

Romans 8:
28: We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him, who are called according to his purpose
29: For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren.
30: And those whom he predestined he also called and those whom he called; he also justified; and those whom he justified; he also glorified.

II Thesalonians 2:
13: But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God chose you from the beginning to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.
14: To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

John 15
16: You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide; so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.

Those quotes are all very well and mean nothing to me since they are still only words written by bronze/iron age male writers about their world as they perceived it and without the benefit of our scientific knowledge to explain things that were imagined as supernatural to them. As for the real Jesus (not the mythical one) he was someone whose mother was a girl called Mary, whose parents were susposedly Joachime and Anne (Gospel of James) and his biological father was perhaps Heli's son, Joseph (Luke 3:23), and his stepfather was Jacob's son, Joseph (Matt 1:12-16). Jesus was largely ignored by all but a few, and he was even ignored by his own family (Matt 13:55-8) including his own mother. Surely if there was anything extraordinary about Jesus, then his own family particularly his own mother would have noticed and acknowledged it. But they didn't, and he was observed by eyewitnesses to probably have a drinking problem (Matt 11:19) and it is likely he had a homosexual relationship with a particular disciple (John 13:23-5 19:26 21:20 Mark 14:51-2 Mark's secret gospel)

God made some flesh to go to the extreme opposites of the truth and you're one of them. He'll change your mind in a short while.

[mitty]

Adam begat CAIN who begat ENOCH who begat IRAD who begat MEHUJAEL who begat METHUSAEL who begat LAMECH.

Adam's great grandson CAINAN begat MAHALALEEL who begat JARED who begat ENOCH who begat METHUSELAH who begat LAMECH who begat Noah.

These two lines look to be the same with a small shuffle in order and if you consider CAIN=CAINAN, IRAD=JARED, MEHUJAEL=MAHALALEEL, METHUSAEL=METHUSELAH.

Does this coincidence arise from a number of writers who contributed to Genesis recording the same oral history and myths of these people but somehow in the collation of the stories into one book things got stuffed up a bit. Having done my own family tree I know how frustating it is with written records and errors in those records, so it would be even more difficult to formally record an oral history into a written form without making errors.

So who was Cain/Cainan. Was he Adam's son or great grandson? If the latter then it makes Joshua's and Yahveh's excuse for Joshua's crimes-against-humanity (Joshua 6:21 8:26) pretty pathetic if the victims of these atrocities were also descendants of Adam's son Seth and not some cursed tribe descended from a fratricider. Those excuses are the same as used by suicide bombers who blame their crimes on the same bronze-age god. So was Joshua also responsible for the Book of Joshua and thus able to explain away why he slaughter innocent people including children. This account alone would be enough for disbelieving this fairy tale involving the supernatural.

God doesn't care if you know about Cain and Abel, anyway. Do you really think you're on the path to the truth?

When you start reading the material, seeing the problems and contradictions and start asking questions you are already on one of the many paths to truths.

How is it you think you know what God cares or doesn't care about, Assuming God?
The genealogies are mixed up because of different sources and different purposes. I suppose that is a good enough reason to have some background in the history and writings as well as theologies because a plan reading of the scriptures is anything but plan. . Even Abraham could very well have been the exalted Father sometimes called the Elohim which were the spirits of the ancestors as they have roots in ancestor worship where gods become ancestors and ancestors become gods.

There is no truth to be found by the unchosen ones. That is given to those he chose before creation.

Religious sinners can't understand this but here's an attempt to use the scriptures for you to see that I can't lie.

We chosen ones receive the truth after we're made sinless, then we can understand the scriptures.

I Colossians 1:
15: He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation;
16: for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities -- all things were created through him and for him.
17: He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
18: He is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning, the first-born from the dead, that in everything he might be pre-eminent.
19: For in him all the fulness of God was pleased to dwell,


John 1
1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2: He was in the beginning with God;
3: all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.
4: In him was life, and the life was the light of men.
5: The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

Ephesians 1:
3: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
4: even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him.
5: He destined us in love to be his sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
6: to the praise of his glorious grace which he freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.

Romans 8:
28: We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him, who are called according to his purpose
29: For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren.
30: And those whom he predestined he also called and those whom he called; he also justified; and those whom he justified; he also glorified.

II Thesalonians 2:
13: But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God chose you from the beginning to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.
14: To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

John 15
16: You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide; so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.

Those quotes are all very well and mean nothing to me since they are still only words written by bronze/iron age male writers about their world as they perceived it and without the benefit of our scientific knowledge to explain things that were imagined as supernatural to them. As for the real Jesus (not the mythical one) he was someone whose mother was a girl called Mary, whose parents were susposedly Joachime and Anne (Gospel of James) and his biological father was perhaps Heli's son, Joseph (Luke 3:23), and his stepfather was Jacob's son, Joseph (Matt 1:12-16). Jesus was largely ignored by all but a few, and he was even ignored by his own family (Matt 13:55-8) including his own mother. Surely if there was anything extraordinary about Jesus, then his own family particularly his own mother would have noticed and acknowledged it. But they didn't, and he was observed by eyewitnesses to probably have a drinking problem (Matt 11:19) and it is likely he had a homosexual relationship with a particular disciple (John 13:23-5 19:26 21:20 Mark 14:51-2 Mark's secret gospel)

God made some flesh to go to the extreme opposites of the truth and you're one of them. He'll change your mind in a short while.

Not at my stage of life and experience. And like more and more other people who think similarly and regard the bible as just another history book (albeit a significant one) recording the history and culture and customs including the myths of a group of people. Nothing more, nothing less! If you are uncomfortable with the few quotes I gave, then I suggest you buy a white-out pen to remove them from your records which I guess would also include the biblical record of the atrocious crimes-against-humanity committed by Joshua (Johua 6:21 8:26) where he blamed his imagined god for his outrage and just like a suicide bomber does today using the same imagined god.

[S-word]

[mitty wrote].........."Those quotes are all very well and mean nothing to me since they are still only words written by bronze/iron age male writers about their world as they perceived it and without the benefit of our scientific knowledge to explain things that were imagined as supernatural to them. As for the real Jesus (not the mythical one) he was someone whose mother was a girl called Mary, whose parents were susposedly Joachime and Anne (Gospel of James) and his biological father was perhaps Heli's son, Joseph (Luke 3:23), and his stepfather was Jacob's son, Joseph (Matt 1:12-16). Jesus was largely ignored by all but a few, and he was even ignored by his own family (Matt 13:55-8) including his own mother. Surely if there was anything extraordinary about Jesus, then his own family particularly his own mother would have noticed and acknowledged it. But they didn't, and he was observed by eyewitnesses to probably have a drinking problem (Matt 11:19) and it is likely he had a homosexual relationship with a particular disciple (John 13:23-5 19:26 21:20 Mark 14:51-2 Mark's secret gospel)"

[S-word's Response]........All that you say here about the man Jesus, may or may not be true, it is purely speculation. I believe as do many of the RCC faith, that Mary was the daughter of Heli the Levite, who I personally believe, was the father of Joseph the Levite from Cyprus, who Heli the grand-father of Jesus, had sired to another woman, and that unbeknown to Mary or Joseph, who would have met at the house of their cousin, Elizabeth of the daughters of Levi, they had shared a common father.

I believe that Mary, who declares herself to be an obedient handmaid to our indwelling God, (For the kingdom of God is within you) and Joseph her half-brother, were spiritually attracted to each other before they realised that they were related, and that their act of obedience to the holy spirit, by which the promised child was conceived, was hidden in the shadow beneath the wings of the Lord of Spirits.

Isaac is a prototype of Jesus and like Jesus, Isaac was born of God's promise according to the workings of the Holy Spirit. Both are seen as the seed that was promised to Abraham. Both Isaac and Jesus were the sons of parents who were both sired by the one Father. ‘Terah,’ is the father to both Abraham and Sarah, while ‘Heli,’ is the father of both Joseph and Mary. Both Mary and Sarah were informed by an angel that they would become Pregnant and bear the son of God's promise. Isaac was offered up as a sacrifice by his physical father, Jesus was offered up by his spiritual father, who descended upon him in the form of a dove as the voice was heard to say, ‘ you are my beloved in whom I am well pleased, TODAY I have become your Father.� See the more ancient authorities

In Luke 3: 22; (In place of “Thou art my beloved Son in who I am well pleased.�) The following authorities of the second, third, and fourth centuries read, “This day I have begotten thee,: vouched for by Codex D, and the most ancient copies of the Old Latin (a. b. c. ff.l), by Justin Martyr (AD. 140), Clemens Alex, (AD. 190), Methodius (AD. 290) among the Greeks. And among the Latins, Lactaitius (AD 300), Hilary (AD.) Juvencus (AD. 330) Faustus (AD. 400) and Agustine.
All these oldest manuscripts were changed completely. They now read, “This is my Son in whom I am well pleased.� Whereas the original variant was, “Thou art My Son. This day I have begotten thee.�

Three months before the unmarried Mary was found with child, she had told the angel that up until that point in time she was still a virgin. Once male semen has been introduced into the womb of woman, whether or not conception occurs with that mating, any child that she bears to any other man, will carry certain genetic characteristics, of that first male, for the two will have become one. Therefore it was imperative that Mary remain a virgin until she was united with the one who was chosen by the holy spirit to be the father of Jesus. For Mary had the same genetic inheritance as her half brother Joseph the son of Heli, which was their ancestral spirits of all those who had fallen asleep in righteousness and had been gathered to the living evolving spirit of Enoch, within the bosom of Abraham, after they had paid the blood price for any mistakes that they had made in their lives.

Young’s Analytical Concordance to the Bible, gives the meaning of the Hebrew word “Almah,� which is used in Isaiah 7: 14; as, (Concealment: Unmarried woman.) when Mary, the obedient handmaid to her indwelling spirit, who had told the angel three months earlier that she was at that time still a virgin, after being told of Elizabeth’s pregnancy, she then went from her home town of Nazareth to a small town near Jerusalem to join with many other members of the family of Elizabeth the cousin of Mary who were of the daughters of Levi, where she must have met for the first time and was spiritually attracted to the biological father of Jesus, who had come from Cyprus. The act of obedience from which the child of God’s promise was conceived in the womb of the “Almah,� unmarried woman, was concealed in the shadow beneath the wings of the Lord of spirits.

Joseph, the biological father of Jesus, was the son of Heli the Levite, and the half brother to Mary. Joseph the son of Heli from the tribe of Levi, was about the 40th descendant of Nathan the son of Bathsheba and half brother to Solomon. Nathan the priest was the son of Uriah the Hittite who had become a member of the tribe of Levi by his marriage to Bathsheba the daughter of Ammiel, the son of Obed-Edom the Levite.

The Lord our saviour made Jesus to be our high priest, and no high priest is chosen from any tribe other than the tribe of Levi.


Zechariah 12: 12-14; Each family in the land will mourn by itself: the family descended from David, (which includes all of his biological sons and their wives) by themselves. The family descended from Nathan and their wives, by themselves etc. this shows clearly that Nathan is not a biological son of David from the tribe of Judah. It is through Nathan, the stepson and possible son-in-law of David, that Jesus’ claim to the throne of David comes.

This Joseph the Levite who is the descendant of Nathan, came from Cyprus (Barnabas) and he had a half sister by the name Mary, who was the adopted mother of John, who Jesus had surnamed “Son of Thunder,� who is identified with the young John who was surnamed “Mark,� which means ‘Hammer,’ or “The Hammerer.� After the death of Jesus, this Joseph the Levite, took his half sister and young John up north into the land of Pamphylia, where today, in the town of Ephesus, the grave sites of Mary and John can still be visited.

A question to you Mitty: Who is the Cainan, mentioned in Luke 3: 36; who is said to be the son of Arpachshad, and the father of Shelah? See Genesis 11: 10; When Arpachshad was 35 years old, he had a son, "Shelah. 1st Chronicles 1: 18; Arpachard was the Father of Shelah. Again I ask the question: "Who is the Cainan of Luke 3: 36.?"

[mitty]

[mitty wrote].........."Those quotes are all very well and mean nothing to me since they are still only words written by bronze/iron age male writers about their world as they perceived it and without the benefit of our scientific knowledge to explain things that were imagined as supernatural to them. As for the real Jesus (not the mythical one) he was someone whose mother was a girl called Mary, whose parents were susposedly Joachime and Anne (Gospel of James) and his biological father was perhaps Heli's son, Joseph (Luke 3:23), and his stepfather was Jacob's son, Joseph (Matt 1:12-16). Jesus was largely ignored by all but a few, and he was even ignored by his own family (Matt 13:55-8) including his own mother. Surely if there was anything extraordinary about Jesus, then his own family particularly his own mother would have noticed and acknowledged it. But they didn't, and he was observed by eyewitnesses to probably have a drinking problem (Matt 11:19) and it is likely he had a homosexual relationship with a particular disciple (John 13:23-5 19:26 21:20 Mark 14:51-2 Mark's secret gospel)"

[S-word's Response]........All that you say here about the man Jesus, may or may not be true, it is purely speculation. I believe as do many of the RCC faith, that Mary was the daughter of Heli the Levite, who I personally believe, was the father of Joseph the Levite from Cyprus, who Heli the grand-father of Jesus, had sired to another woman, and that unbeknown to Mary or Joseph, who would have met at the house of their cousin, Elizabeth of the daughters of Levi, they had shared a common father.

I believe that Mary, who declares herself to be an obedient handmaid to our indwelling God, (For the kingdom of God is within you) and Joseph her half-brother, were spiritually attracted to each other before they realised that they were related, and that their act of obedience to the holy spirit, by which the promised child was conceived, was hidden in the shadow beneath the wings of the Lord of Spirits.

Isaac is a prototype of Jesus and like Jesus, Isaac was born of God's promise according to the workings of the Holy Spirit. Both are seen as the seed that was promised to Abraham. Both Isaac and Jesus were the sons of parents who were both sired by the one Father. ‘Terah,’ is the father to both Abraham and Sarah, while ‘Heli,’ is the father of both Joseph and Mary. Both Mary and Sarah were informed by an angel that they would become Pregnant and bear the son of God's promise. Isaac was offered up as a sacrifice by his physical father, Jesus was offered up by his spiritual father, who descended upon him in the form of a dove as the voice was heard to say, ‘ you are my beloved in whom I am well pleased, TODAY I have become your Father.� See the more ancient authorities

In Luke 3: 22; (In place of “Thou art my beloved Son in who I am well pleased.�) The following authorities of the second, third, and fourth centuries read, “This day I have begotten thee,: vouched for by Codex D, and the most ancient copies of the Old Latin (a. b. c. ff.l), by Justin Martyr (AD. 140), Clemens Alex, (AD. 190), Methodius (AD. 290) among the Greeks. And among the Latins, Lactaitius (AD 300), Hilary (AD.) Juvencus (AD. 330) Faustus (AD. 400) and Agustine.
All these oldest manuscripts were changed completely. They now read, “This is my Son in whom I am well pleased.� Whereas the original variant was, “Thou art My Son. This day I have begotten thee.�

Three months before the unmarried Mary was found with child, she had told the angel that up until that point in time she was still a virgin. Once male semen has been introduced into the womb of woman, whether or not conception occurs with that mating, any child that she bears to any other man, will carry certain genetic characteristics, of that first male, for the two will have become one. Therefore it was imperative that Mary remain a virgin until she was united with the one who was chosen by the holy spirit to be the father of Jesus. For Mary had the same genetic inheritance as her half brother Joseph the son of Heli, which was their ancestral spirits of all those who had fallen asleep in righteousness and had been gathered to the living evolving spirit of Enoch, within the bosom of Abraham, after they had paid the blood price for any mistakes that they had made in their lives.

Young’s Analytical Concordance to the Bible, gives the meaning of the Hebrew word “Almah,� which is used in Isaiah 7: 14; as, (Concealment: Unmarried woman.) when Mary, the obedient handmaid to her indwelling spirit, who had told the angel three months earlier that she was at that time still a virgin, after being told of Elizabeth’s pregnancy, she then went from her home town of Nazareth to a small town near Jerusalem to join with many other members of the family of Elizabeth the cousin of Mary who were of the daughters of Levi, where she must have met for the first time and was spiritually attracted to the biological father of Jesus, who had come from Cyprus. The act of obedience from which the child of God’s promise was conceived in the womb of the “Almah,� unmarried woman, was concealed in the shadow beneath the wings of the Lord of spirits.

Joseph, the biological father of Jesus, was the son of Heli the Levite, and the half brother to Mary. Joseph the son of Heli from the tribe of Levi, was about the 40th descendant of Nathan the son of Bathsheba and half brother to Solomon. Nathan the priest was the son of Uriah the Hittite who had become a member of the tribe of Levi by his marriage to Bathsheba the daughter of Ammiel, the son of Obed-Edom the Levite.

The Lord our saviour made Jesus to be our high priest, and no high priest is chosen from any tribe other than the tribe of Levi.


Zechariah 12: 12-14; Each family in the land will mourn by itself: the family descended from David, (which includes all of his biological sons and their wives) by themselves. The family descended from Nathan and their wives, by themselves etc. this shows clearly that Nathan is not a biological son of David from the tribe of Judah. It is through Nathan, the stepson and possible son-in-law of David, that Jesus’ claim to the throne of David comes.

This Joseph the Levite who is the descendant of Nathan, came from Cyprus (Barnabas) and he had a half sister by the name Mary, who was the adopted mother of John, who Jesus had surnamed “Son of Thunder,� who is identified with the young John who was surnamed “Mark,� which means ‘Hammer,’ or “The Hammerer.� After the death of Jesus, this Joseph the Levite, took his half sister and young John up north into the land of Pamphylia, where today, in the town of Ephesus, the grave sites of Mary and John can still be visited.

A question to you Mitty: Who is the Cainan, mentioned in Luke 3: 36; who is said to be the son of Arpachshad, and the father of Shelah? See Genesis 11: 10; When Arpachshad was 35 years old, he had a son, "Shelah. 1st Chronicles 1: 18; Arpachard was the Father of Shelah. Again I ask the question: "Who is the Cainan of Luke 3: 36.?"

Where's the biblical reference that Jesus's mother was the daughter of Heli and therefore the half sister of Jesus's biological father. I guess that's feasible, since incestuous relationships seemed to be quite common in the early OT stories with the ultimate one being in the 2nd version of the creation story in Genesis chapter 2 where the adam (or first man) is bonking his identical twin sister (despite a minor problem of a stray Y chromosome) and there are the descriptions of the drunken orgies between Lot and his two daughters in a cave. Anyway, the only reference I know of about Jesus's maternal grandparents is in the Apocryophal Gospel of James indicating they were Joachime and Anne and not also his paternal grandparents Heli and his missus. Your version is certainly a case of keeping things in the family, but nowadays would perhaps result in a jail sentence particularly if Heli was actually Jesus's biological father instead of Mary's brother.

As for the Cainan/Cain story, the son of Arphaxad is another Cain/Cainan and descendant of the one in the genealogy in Genesis 4:17-8 and in the slightly different version of the genealogy in Genesis 5:10-4.