Marriage equality

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puddleglum
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Marriage equality

Post #1

Post by puddleglum »

There is a movement to establish “marriage equality� between gay and straight people by legalizing marriage between two people of the same sex. Is the restriction of marriage to a man and a woman just an arbitrary rule or is there some fundamental reason why two members of the same sex can’t marry each other?

Marriage has one purpose that is often overlooked.
Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.

Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.

In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body.

“Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.� This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church.
Ephesians 5:22-32 ESV
The church is a body made up of all whose sins have been forgiven because of their faith in Christ. The relationship between a husband and wife is intended to reflect the relationship between Christ and the church. The husband represents Christ and the wife represents the church. A union between two men or two women is not an accurate picture of the relationship.

The government can pass laws that call a relationship between two members of the same sex a marriage but it will not be a true marriage in God’s sight. But the Bible reveals a way in which some gays will experience marriage equality.

The Bible calls the church the bride of Christ. Whoever is saved by believing in Christ becomes part of the church. One day church will be complete and then what is now only a metaphor will become a reality.
Then I heard what seemed to be the voice of a great multitude, like the roar of many waters and like the sound of mighty peals of thunder, crying out,
“Hallelujah!
For the Lord our God
the Almighty reigns.
Let us rejoice and exult
and give him the glory,
for the marriage of the Lamb has come,
and his Bride has made herself ready;
it was granted her to clothe herself
with fine linen, bright and pure�—
for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints.
Revelation 19:6-8 ESV
The ultimate destiny of all Christians is to experience the true Marriage of which marriages between a man and a woman are only a picture. Many of those who are part of this Marriage will have had a preview of it by being married in this life; many will not. The joy of being part of the real Marriage will be so great no one will care what their marital status was before. Gays who have put their faith in Christ will experience exactly the same thing that straights will.
For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Galatians 3:27-28 ESV
And in Christ there is neither gay nor straight.

The way to achieve marriage equality for gays is not to change laws but to evangelize gays so they will be part of the real Marriage.
His invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made.
Romans 1:20 ESV

Yahu
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Re: Marriage equality

Post #11

Post by Yahu »

puddleglum wrote: [Replying to post 7 by Yahu]
The biblical law doesn't limit marriage to a man and his wife. It limits it between a man, his wives and concubines.
God allowed men to take extra wives and concubines but that wasn't part of his plan. And he never approved any kind of marital relationship between two people of the same sex.
I never claimed same sex marriage was allowed by any of Yah's law. It is clearly presented as abomination according to His law.

My point is the concept that marriage is only between one man and one woman is not a biblical standard. Even the Levites not part of the high priesthood could have wives and/or concubines by law.

Now is marriage between one man and one virgin woman the ideal? Yes I agree that it is. Dealing with multiple wives is far more difficult. I know from experience. My own wife had been the victim of gang rape. It would have been so much easier if she had been a virgin. I wouldn't have had to deal with that emotional baggage.

Even in the NT, Paul only allows men with one wife to hold a position of authority within a church. It was NOT forbidden among those outside of those positions. Deacons, elders and bishops had to be the 'husband of one wife'.

My point is our current social concepts of marriage do not represent the biblical concepts. It wasn't sin to have a concubine yet by our modern religious traditions most would consider it sin when in fact it is not. Is it the ideal? No.

My eldest son is by a concubine. It was not adultery against my wife. As a matter of fact my wife was the one that got me involved with her and had freed me of my marital vow of exclusivity due to the situation. Our friend had been gang raped and had major emotional problems at the time. My wife begged me to help our friend as I had helped her through her issues. I have also been a surrogate father (to another son) for a couple with a sterile husband, again with my wife's blessing and permission.

Was that sin? No. Was it an ideal situation? No.

Do you have any idea how often people in my situation are attacked because of religious traditions that are violated equating that as sin. The Pharisees did the same thing to Yeshua, attacking Him for violations of their religious traditions that were in fact not against Yah's law. For example, it was against Pharisee law to eat without washing your hands first or to pick and eat a handful of grain you picked on the Sabbath.

Sin is violation of His law. It is NOT violation of religious traditions even if that tradition is to follow the ideal. So IMO, it would be sin on the part of the attacker who attacks anyone not following the ideal situation not the individual that doesn't follow that ideal.

Sexual issues are a common area that Christians attack others that don't follow the perfect ideal. For example, a teenage girl gives up her virginity to a boyfriend but her father runs off the boy and sabotages the relationship where the law clearly states that they should marry. In that case, it is the father that is in error.

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Re: Marriage equality

Post #12

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to post 10 by Yahu]

We are a holy priesthood:
1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

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Re: Marriage equality

Post #13

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to post 11 by Yahu]

That is an amazing personal story. I'd just caution you not to self justify or at least to consider if you are. We we all sinners and approach God as such.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826

"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

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Re: Marriage equality

Post #14

Post by Yahu »

Wootah wrote: [Replying to post 10 by Yahu]

We are a holy priesthood:
1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.
Difference between 'holy priesthood' and high priesthood. The law made a very specific distinction. Yeshua is the high priest.

Descendants of Aron are of the high priesthood. The Levites were of the priesthood of Israel. All of Israel was the priesthood to all the other nations. Its a matter of degree. We as Christians get grafted into Israel.

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Re: Marriage equality

Post #15

Post by Yahu »

Wootah wrote: [Replying to post 11 by Yahu]

That is an amazing personal story. I'd just caution you not to self justify or at least to consider if you are. We we all sinners and approach God as such.
Self justify? I am not justifying anything, just stating facts. Was it an ideal situation? No. With hind sight I may had chosen differently but I may not have.

Those events had nothing to do with lust or satisfying lust which is what I consider the sexual laws to be against. I look at why something is sin, not just blindly follow rules or traditions.

My point is, I studied out the scriptural sexual laws because of the situations I was in. I had never even considered being involved with any other women. I loved my wife and was dedicated to her. Once I realized that there was no violation of Yah's law, I don't really care what other Pharisaical Christians think. I am not concerned about approval of man as long as I stay in right standing with Yah's law.

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Marriage And The Bible.

Post #16

Post by Falling Light 101 »


[font=Verdana] Women for the last 6000 yrs )

Have not been INVENTING or mass producing weapons ! RIGHT ?

Can You name a single weapon that a woman has invented.

Women have been ( for the last 6000 yrs ) NOT capable, or WILLING or even interested in massing an army consisting of (ALL females) Marching, Sailing Soldiers. Riding and Ramming down her enemies, WHY ?


The bible looks at the Woman’s human nature, GIVING women the advice and skills to go forth as a beautiful mother, [ -( THE WAY God made her )-} She is skilled, smart, wise. Understanding of her surroundings. Master of her own world, beautiful, special, unexplainably wonderful.

Where a man can never be rated good enough, or free enough to have the privilege to OPT OUT of taking on the ENEMIES of darkness that have sought to harm humanity.

Where a man can never be rated good enough, capable or free enough to have the privilege to OPT OUT on taking ON THE COLD hours of the day, working 8 - 15 hr days.

HE is not rated good enough, capable or free or privileged ( significant ) to be ABLE to ...OPT OUT of the duty of working in the boiling sun, breaking down his body, day after day , BREAKING his back in agony. wrinkling his skin from the sun. Bearing the cold. rain. Some. Working in CHEMICALS and toXins and poisions that eat up his body, mind and soul.

For all of his life. HE IS A SLAVE, an animal. Lonley, longing, ready to eXplode and fill the emotional and physical needs of the women around him. HE NEEDS HELP. / He Needs A Woman. !

The man is the property / SLAVE of a cruel system wherein he has to get up, normally around 3:30 to 6:00 - Every day nearly and THINK about WHAT must be done for his Family to survive. He has to give his life. Every day. The man is the PROPERTY / slave of the elements of nature and the environment. When the enemies come.

WHEN THE SLAVE MASTER comes with his iron whip of reality
He fights, bleeds, takes injury and he is not allowed to NORMALLY run into the house and wait for the local LADY fashion stars and sexies / professional sweetheart crew and the Strip clubs of America, to handle His business.

The man is a slave He is not free. He is on the battle field cutting, crawling, crying, slashing, striping, striking, shooting, damaging, hitting and destroying the enemy.

We know that women and children of the enemy do carry weapons....Do FIGHT . WOMEN and CHILDREN of the enemy do carry eXplosives, do prepare food near the battlefield. They are used as propaganda CHESS pieces and they eventually suffer as the war completely unfolds. Sad is the case) women and children Do give aid...therefore often die in many, many sad, sad, horrible situations in war.

The media and women here in the USA....Britian, france ITALY ect. Are busy projecting their RIGHT and very personal actions OF taking their UNWANTED ....children / child as it is coming out of the womb...

The child is coming into the world, her eyes are just catching her first rays of this glimmering light, she can feel a world around Her. She is ready to open her beautiful sweet eyes, and begin to breath the air and wrap her arms loving arms around her mama.

Ready to suckle on the fountain of life - MILK pouring warm and gentle from her beautiful mother, Her heart is beating and she is moving feeling the air on her beautiful face.. Suddenly a tube is stabbed into the back of her head and her brains sucked out. She is pulled and dropped into a trash can like a filthy useless rotten piece of meat.

A Partial birth - was all the love and life she will ever know HER CHOICE was a cruel mocking sinister and MOST wretched trick and heartbreaking joke.

But on - it goes...THE slave. THE MAN he DIES even before his wife dies .
Attributable to environmental factors your behaviors and your exposures. Living all his life as a slave. THE PROPERTY and servant, SENTENCED and CHAINED to a life of UN-deniable fate...

The men are like a heard of bulls and oXen they pull civilization with the blood, sweat, tears and bone of their bodies ENSLAVED for eternity. The men live sometimes 15- 20 YEARS shorter than the average women. ENSLAVED, unworthy, LIKE animals.

Remember that Women Cary the Ability to Become Fertilized, TO Grow another Living Human Being inside her.

Women Have the Ability to Give Birth to this baby and then Women have the Ability to Feed and Nurse it with Nutrition from her own body.

Women have a Monthly, Menstrual Cycle, where their Body will harvest Eggs and Set itself up for Fertilization. Then Shed these Eggs from the body. Women ARE So, So, Much Different from Men. They are a special, Wonderful, thing.

Remember there is a Purpose and place for Women and there is always the eXception. Some Women are Good aT Doing things a man can do. But I think Women are Perfect the Way they are. I think that the Oppression of women has been depending on the level of corruption and Evil and Degeneracy in a society.

Islam, Does not really have a Godly place for Women. Adultery and Prostitution is allowed in Islam.

Divorcee in the quran, for any REASON at all, is permitted. IN ISLAM.

In the bible, Women are supposed to be clean, virgin and remain with their Husband forever. MARRIAGE is Sacred, in the Bible. DIVORSE is not something that is Supposed to be a NORMAL Routine .........


Women have never Risen UP as one GROUP, Formed a military force and went and Conquered another nation or another military Power.

before the MODDERN ERA, THERE was no Air CONDITIONING, No Machines and Assembly Lines and MODDERN Tools available for large communities and Groups of WOMEN to go to work.

Women did not want to Be out in the blazing, boiling, Blistering heat, Digging for 8 - 12 hours a Day. Women did not want to Be out in the boiling, Blistering, Hellish hot Nights and days, Bouncing Up and Down on a Horse all day and night with no rest, Delivering messages and mail and supplies.

Women did not want to Be out In all of the Driving jOBS, Driving in the dirty Highways with no Air Conditioning, with the Windows down. Stopping at dirty places, with no Modern Facilities and air Conditioning and quick, hot water.

Women did not want to be working in the fields, and seas and hills, with no Sanitation,...Women did not want to be out packing Heavy wood, all day and night up and down hills and through Brush and thickets.

Women did not want to be in the Military Line with a Sword and spear, clashing and butchering the enemy fighting against 300 pound men.

Women did not want to spend Weeks and months out in the Cattle Drives, with hardly no opportunity for a BATH. THEIR skin Burning red and blistering and their Brains boiling, as they spend hours, on the edge of Passing out.

Women did not want to be Roofing on a Hot roof. Women did not want to be Working in the Coal Mines all day and night, with Soot and Dirt and Coal and minerals and chemicals eating their brains, eyes and skin,

Women did not want to WORK like a Man....... Women worked as Cooks, Servers, Waiting Tables, NURSING. WOMEN have worked hard........ And they Should never, NEVER < NEVER be expected to ...work these other jOBS.... REMEMBER that THERE was little money available, the Men were eXpected to work themselves to death for Little pay.

Women could never even hope to compete and they did not want to try.
MEN, worked like slaves, Like DOGS and Animals.... Taking Care of their Families. Women had it hard too - Taking Care of the Home, With NO MODDERN Technology was a TRUE, Living and Real jOB for women in the WORLD. It Was Very hard work.

The Life eXpecenty of An Average man was 10- 20 years SHORTER than the Average Woman. I jUST think that the Idea that somehow Woman have been mistreated or left out of the workplace, is a bunch of HYPE and Lies.

With the invention of modern Technology and TOOLS that Allow Women to have the ability and desire to work. - Suddenly, we see the women filling the factories. Suddenly, we see the women Rushing to the City to get a mans jOB.

REMEMBER. the Technology was invented to Bring more money to the Business Owners. - The Inventions and Moddern Tools and Machines were Built, to let the business owners not need to hire so many people.

Why would the Average business want to hire a Woman, when they jUST Fired 20 men and Bought a Machine or tool that does the work of the 20 Men.

They only Loose money.... Then you have Lawsuits, sexy Harassment and Many other things that Drain the company by Hiring a Woman.

I think that Woman have WORKED very, Very hard throughout Civilization. WOMEN have had plenty to do. Women have had it hard... REALLY, REALLY Hard.. - Women have Done their Part... they ARE so wonderful and hard working and dedicated...

But so have men. Please... Don’t be deceived by these Television shows, and Politicians and Lesbians and HomoseXuals. Who profit and PRIDE themselves. - GETTING off.. - From. Getting Women Worked up into thinking that there has been this Great Oppression of Woman and Minorities..

Modern Technology, Modern Machines and TOOLS today, allow women and NON English Speaking People and Un Educated, ( UNSKILLED ) people today, To do the work that they could never do, before the Modern Technology came.

Women should keep bringing their Great Skills and Great ideas to the modern world. But demonizing MEN, based on lies, is not something that makes the situation better. Yes there are men who discriminate against women or other minorities. But eXagerating the problem, does not make profit or help anything for very long.

I love women. and think they are so special and Precious... Thank You for being a Woman.[/font]

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Hillary the Shamer

Post #17

Post by Falling Light 101 »

Hillary Clinton has had 30 Years to gather at Least a good size All Female Military Regiment or Platoon.

She should have a 50,000 - All Female Military force by Now.
a 50,000 All Female Military Unit would be nice.

Or A Pair of Work Gloves and a Pair of Work Boots. And A Map To the Labor Hall. - She Has Done nothing but run her mouth about Helping Women and Putting Women to work. While Women are working every day. Women in the USA are hard workers. They Contribute so much. But it is the Men and Women who throw their money away on Drugs, Abortions, Children born in Broken Homes and in The Quickie seXual adventures. These are the People who are Holding the Men and Women of America back.

Men and Women have the Right - To Save their own money, For their Own Family and Future. Pay for themselves - to have their Own seX.

Woman have full opportunity to Save, Build business and Remove all the useless Makeup, The Fingernails, The Hair, ( Shave it Off ) Remove The Dress Shoes, The Lace and Soft Flimsy Loose Clothing.

Put on a Pair of Boots and a Pair of Gloves Thank God for a Shovel, Pick or a Job Site and get to work. But everywhere I go - All I see is Hillary Clinton Running Her Mouth and Women are not doing the work that the Men do.

Hillary Clinton is very disrespectful to Women and does not realize the value of the Woman, What a Woman is, and what a Woman is all about OR She is Lying to win her 30 Year Long Political Distraction.

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