Which Rules Are for Christians?

[Ancient Paths]

There seem to be different rules regarding right and wrong in different churches and denominations. In some Pentecostal churches, men should not wear short-sleeved shirts. In old-order Mennonite churches, everyone must (should?) drive a black car, but in some other Mennonite churches, any color car is acceptable. In Catholic churches, not going to confession means sins are retained, but most other denominations don't even have the practice of confession. To Seventh-Day Adventists, not going to church on Saturdays is a sin,... or is it that going to church on Sundays is a sin? Some churches/denominations ordain homosexuals and others consider homosexuality a sin.

Where do people/churches get these rules and their definitions of what's sin and what's not? Shouldn't Christianity have a common standard? Shouldn't the Bible somewhere define what constitutes sin and what doesn't, or does/should Christianity get its cues on right and wrong from whichever society or culture a church is in?

So I've asked several questions here that are all getting at the same point: how is right and wrong (sin) defined and who defines it?

Peace.

[Paprika]

I read it but it expresses a lot of opinion without supporting it with scripture. To be clear, it does quote scripture, but the scripture it quotes doesn't support the claims. It supports various doctrines about God's Law, but nothing quoted explicitly says that the Law is null and void, and I have Jesus himself explicitly saying otherwise. Actually, reading the material at that site sounds like what Jesus is describing at the first half of Mt. 5:19.

Regarding Col. 2:16-17...

The items on the list were commanded by God but the Bible itself shows they were intended only to be in effect until Christ came.

I hear you. I know that what you're saying is the widely held position within Christendom today, but I'm not seeing that in scripture. I'm wondering if this is a matter of correct interpretation versus incorrect interpretation, particularly of Paul's writings on the subject.

The common view is that the Mosaic Law is null and void, which is inaccurate (as you note with Mt 5:19). Rather, why Christians are no longer under the Mosaic Law is because they have died to it.

As Paul puts it,

Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith

Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.

[Ancient Paths]

[Replying to post 41 by Paprika]

God/Jesus said over and over that his commandments/Law is to remain valid forever.

Dt. 4:40
So you shall keep His statutes and His commandments which I am giving you today, that it may go well with you and with your children after you, and that you may live long on the land which the Lord your God is giving you for all time.

Dt. 5:29
Oh that they had such a heart in them, that they would fear Me and keep all My commandments always, that it may be well with them and with their sons forever!

Dt. 12:28
Be careful to listen to all these words which I command you, so that it may be well with you and your sons after you forever, for you will be doing what is good and right in the sight of the Lord your God.

2Ki. 17:37
The statutes and the ordinances and the law and the commandment which He wrote for you, you shall observe to do forever...

Ps. 119:44
So I will keep Your law continually, forever and ever.

Ps. 119:160
The sum of Your word is truth, and every one of Your righteous ordinances is everlasting.

Mt. 5:17-19
Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill {pleroo = complete}. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

So where exactly did Paul get the authority to take away from what God/Jesus commanded, and where in scripture can we see this authority given, despite God/Jesus promising otherwise? I have provided scripture stating clearly that the Law of God stands forever. Show me scripture, not doctrine, stating clearly that Paul or anyone else had the authority to abrogate God's/Jesus' Law.

[Paprika]

So where exactly did Paul get the authority to take away from what God/Jesus commanded, and where in scripture can we see this authority given, despite God/Jesus promising otherwise? I have provided scripture stating clearly that the Law of God stands forever. Show me scripture, not doctrine, stating clearly that Paul or anyone else had the authority to abrogate God's/Jesus' Law.

Again, the Law was not nullified, it was not abrogated. Rather, we are no longer under it.

Consider: when the Mosaic Law was given to the Jews, were the Gentiles under it? No, because they were not under it. So it is possible for some to be not under the Mosaic Law and still for the Mosaic Law to stand over all those it is over.

[Wissing]

Ancient Paths,

Let's have a constructive debate about the dietary laws and that the new covenant is for the Gentiles. That's a point of clear disagreement, and I'd like to hear your case. I'll start with Matthew 15:10-20. It's not what goes into the body that defiles, but what comes out. Repeated in Mark 7:14-23, it even says "thus he declared all foods clean", meaning that those who heard him and passed on the information believed that was his intent here. Also, Acts 10 covers both these topics. "What God has made clean you must not call profane" in verse 15 overturns food restrictions in Peter's sight. Then Peter is sent to the centurion, Cornelius. He states in verse 35, "... In every nation anyone who fears (God) and does what is right is acceptable to him."

That's a start. I typically post about once a week so don't worry if I don't reply immediately.