The JUDGEMENT POSTPONED

[ttruscott]

7. JUDGEMENT POSTPONED

This category deals with some Scriptures which I feel have something to say about why GOD has not brought HIS enemies to judgement yet. Why the holy, all powerful, infinitely loving GOD still allows evil persons to exist in seemingly as much freedom as the righteous is probably the biggest mystery (apparent contradiction to some) in the mirky Christian view of things.

In other words, no one has really come up with an answer that the majority of Christians find acceptable [1: footnotes like this 1 are found at the end] for such questions as: why didn't GOD judge all the evil angels when they rebelled (why they were just put out of Paradise and left free to roam the earthly realms; why hasn't GOD judged the serpent?); and why hasn't Jesus returned to hold His judgement yet?

Well, pre-conception existence theology has an answer, to wit: that it was GOD's intention to judge all evil persons (which includes all the evil angels) at the very first opportunity (which took place over 5000 years ago) but that HIS judgement had to be postponed because of the unwillingness of some of HIS elect creatures to join HIM in this judgement and because of HIS unwillingness to condemn them for this rebellion along with the eternally evil ones.

Therefore, HIS judgement has and will continue to be postponed until all of HIS elect become willing to join HIM in it.[2]

Genesis 15:16 - But in the fourth generation they (the Israelites) shall come hither (to the Promised Land) again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full. Now, the thing that I'd like you to note is that Israel's return to the Promised Land had to be postponed. My first question is why did it have to be postponed? Was it because the iniquity of the Amorites was not yet full enough for their judgement? Okay, then my second question is who wasn't it full enough for?

It should be obvious to anyone who knows anything about the totally defiling nature of just one sin, that the Amorites were full enough in GOD's sight already.[3] So then, just who still looked on their iniquity as not being full yet, that is, as not being bad enough to warrant this judgement that had to take place before Israel's return?

According to pre-conception existence theology, there was a four generation postponement of GOD's judgement because the Amorites were not yet bad enough in the eyes of the Israelites for the Israelites to be willing to judge them according to the judgement decreed by GOD. Therefore, the Israelites became corrupt and had to stay enslaved in Egypt[4] until they became willing to judge them, that is, until the Israelites became holy (obedient) enough to see them all judged: men, women and children. (See Joshua 6:21; 8:26,27; 10:40[5])

Now, this judgement against the Amorites is typical of the judgement that has to take place before we can inherit the antitypical “Promised Land�, i.e., before GOD's people can enter into the truest millennium. According to pre-conception existence theology, this antitypical judgement has also been postponed, once again because the elect do not yet look on the iniquity of HIS enemies as being bad enough to warrant HIS eternal judgement and wrath on them. Therefore, we too have had to remain in Egypt[6], that is, outside of the “Promised Land� of heaven, still waiting until we become holy enough to have all of GOD's enemies (men, women and children, even the ones that look like little wee babies!) “killed�, that is, judged and forever exiled to hell.

Need I say more?[7]

Matthew 13:28 - He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto Him, Wilt Thou then that we go and gather them up? :29 - But He said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Whose fault was it that GOD's enemies got to do this mixing up? Was GOD too weak to stop them? Or are we to believe that this waiting had to be because GOD could not teach HIS angels to differentiate between HIS children and HIS enemies? (Are the angels blind too?) Surely we cannot believe that GOD was unable to bring about this separation because of some fault in HIM or HIS angels, right? Then, the fault that caused this mix up and delay must be in the wheat.

Hence, from this parable we should be able to see that the judgement of GOD has been delayed because the elect are not separate in spirit from the non-elect, and that for this reason they will have to live together until the tares can be gathered, that is, separated from the elect and burned[8] without any harm coming to any one of the elect.

Matthew 22:3 - And (HE) sent forth HIS servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come. :4 - Again, HE sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared MY dinner: MY oxen and MY fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage. In this parable we can see that the marriage (feast) was ready to take place, and would have, if those who were invited had come. But they would not, twice even!

Therefore it kept being postponed presumably until the time when it would be furnished with guests. Now since this marriage (feast) takes place before the judgement, then the judgement must also have been postponed, and if we look for a reason, it must be because the guests would not come (out from among HIS enemies) to the marriage feast. So once again we receive the witness that the judgement of GOD has been postponed because of the unholiness of HIS people, which means something theological I think.

Matthew 23:37 - O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Jerusalem went into political dispersion around 600 BC. Since that time they have never really ever been all together within their own country, under their own (Jewish) king.

Christ said that He had the solution to their big problem, to wit: His kingdom (regathering and sovereign protection). Moreover, He said that He had been ready to put His salvation into action many times previously. Unfortunately, His salvation-regathering was conditional and it would seem that they had never been willing to do their part. Therefore it had been postponed each and every time. Moreover, we can see that “Jerusalem� still was not willing to do its part.

Now I hope that you are also able to see that this little story is only typical of a much larger story that has a judgement in it.

Therefore once again we have a witness to the effect that GOD is ready to proceed with HIS judgement but that it has been postponed because of the disobedience, rebellion, unwillingness to leave the world and unholiness of His people (the reasons for why they would not).[9]

Matthew 25:34 - Then shall the King say unto them on His right hand, Come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. If the kingdom was prepared away back then, why will it take so much time for us to enter it? Perhaps it's because these things have been postponed since that time. According to pre-conception theology, this verse has a much fuller meaning than any other theology gives it, to wit: “prepared for you� means that we could have entered it way back when, like, even back when we used to think Adam and Eve had it.

Romans 9:22 - What if GOD, willing to show HIS wrath, and to make HIS power known, endured with much long-suffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction? This verse says that GOD was (is) willing to judge and prove[10] to HIS people that HE is the sovereign GOD, but that HE has to endure with much long-suffering the temporary abrogation of justice concerning those vessels doomed to wrath. In verse 23 (Romans 9:23 - And that HE might make known the riches of HIS glory on the vessels of mercy, which HE had afore prepared unto glory.) Paul gives a reason why GOD had to do this thing which he obviously did not like or want, that being so that HE could show all the elect the riches of HIS glory. This must include the fact that HIS way is so much better than any other way, and that HIS judgement is necessary, that it can not be abrogated if we are going to live in peace with HIM in HIS kingdom.[11]

According to the adherents of preconception theology, that is what you are supposed to be learning down here. That is what GOD wants you to learn from this life.

Now wouldn't you say that they match really well? This verse also presupposes that the vessels of wrath existed all during this time of postponement, for when we consider that the number of those who will be judged is a known and fixed number in GOD's omniscient sight, we must also realise that they all must have existed at the very first time HE was willing to bring them to judgement. This then constitutes another proof of their existence before their conception.

1 Peter 4:5 - Who shall give account to Him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead. If GOD is ready to judge them why doesn't HE do it????!!!! What in the world (hint hint) is stopping HIM if HE is ready? Something must be stopping HIM if HE is ready. Hence, we can see additional testimony that GOD's judgement has been and still is being postponed against HIS will.

2 Peter 3:11 - Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of GOD. In verse 12, “hasting unto� may mean “hastening the coming�, as the NIV has it, “speed its coming�. If this is true, then one can not help but wonder how it is possible that we can hasten the coming of the day of GOD's judgement? What part do we have in it? Well, may I suggest that if it was postponed because of our disobedience (unholiness), then we probably will have to repent of that disobedience and get into all holy conversation and godliness before it will happen.

Revelation 6:9 - And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar[12] the souls of them that were slain for the word of GOD, and for the testimony which they held: :10 - And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O LORD, holy and true, dost THOU not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?[13] :11 - And white robes were given unto every one of them: and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow-servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. Well, from these verses we can see a few things...

First, some people were definitely holy, that is, the ones that had already been martyred. They were ready to go to the judgement.[14]

Second, we can see that GOD wasn't ready to go, even though HE is holy and true.

Third, we can see part of the reason why GOD wasn't ready to go, to wit: it was necessary that some more of GOD's children be martyred.

Now, the question that comes to mind is why did they have to be martyred? Why couldn't GOD hold HIS judgement right then and save them from all that torment and pain?

According to preconception theology, HIS judgement had to be postponed, that is, couldn't happen yet, because some of GOD's children were still unholy, that is, if HE held the judgement right then, they would be condemned too.

Therefore, HIS judgement had to be postponed until after they all were martyred, that is, made holy through martyrdom, because that's what it would take for them to become holy.[15] (Sense, reason and the Bible weren’t working for them and neither was GOD's love for them.)

Revelation 10:6 - And sware by Him that liveth forever and ever, Who created heaven, and the things therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer.

Someone in his commentary (#21) said: “The translation of this phrase in the AV (KJV) is very misleading: 'that there should be time no longer.'... What the angel announces is that there will be no more time intervening before the coming of the end. The consummation will be no longer delayed; the prayers of the saints (6:10[16]) are about to be answered.�

Well then, surmising that this comment is correct and that we have understood it correctly, we can see that this verse intimates that the judgement of GOD has been delayed, that is, that it was suppose to happen earlier but something stopped it. Do you still have any doubts as to the cause of this postponement? Could you be unwilling to let GOD vent his wrath (hurt to HIS utmost) and exile to the Lake of Fire and Brimstone forever, your "nice" but unfaithful, unholy, friend, baby,[17] child or partner?

Perhaps it would be good to remind you of

Matthew 10:34-37 - Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.

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Notes for: 7, Judgement Postponed.

1 - I'm not saying that we haven't come up with any. There are some around, but none of them seems that easy to digest in the opinion of the vast majority of Christians.

2 - In other words, we haven't so much a war between good and evil as we have a war between GOD and HIS people, with the evil getting to beat on both of them. (Just the old divide and conquer routine. Works pretty good eh? One of the big keys to the devil’s successes on this planet has been his ability to keep the good people in the different countries divided, that is, against each other. He uses false priests to do it.)

3 - Like, when GOD finally judges the world, HE is going to condemn “a lot of people who are not near as bad as the Amorites were.�

4 - Or wandering in the wilderness, if they'd been freed from Egypt.

5 - Joshua 6:21 - And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword. Joshua 8:26,27 - For Joshua drew not his hand back, wherewith he stretched out the spear, until he had utterly destroyed all the inhabitants of Ai. Only the cattle and the spoil of that city Israel took for a prey unto themselves, according unto the word of the LORD which HE commanded Joshua. Joshua 10:40 - So Joshua smote all the country of the hills, and of the south, and of the vale, and of the springs, and all their kings: he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD GOD of Israel commanded.

6 - Or, wandering in the wilderness, if we've been converted.

7 - Undoubtedly!!!!

8 - Any tares in your immediate area that need gathered up and burned? They have all had over 5000 years to repent you know. Do you really think that they will change their mind if we give them a few more years? Or will they just use the time to poison and destroy the Earth some more?

9 - It sort of looks like some still don't believe Him about which is the better place to be.

10 - Not necessarily for the first time!

11 - Many put forth another interpretation to the effect that the riches of HIS glory means HIS power and justice. This interpretation is not valid because, first, as stated in Romans 1:20: For the invisible things of HIM from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even HIS eternal power and GODHEAD; so that they are without excuse:, HIS power has been known since the beginning; and second, because of the fact that a perfect system of justice does not need a criminal in order to be perfect. Even if one is unwilling to accept this fact, one must still accept that a system of justice which needs a criminal in order to be perfectly appreciated, still does not need more than one criminal.

Hence, GOD would have to put only one person in hell for us to have the complete appreciation of the riches of HIS glory.

12 - Altars are for altering things.

13 - Notice that they didn't ask “why�, just “how long�.

14 - It's also interesting to note that they did not get their white robes before this (like when they became converted or went up to heaven). They got them only after they had made this saving confession of faith unto holiness.

15 - Like, how many times have you prayed the prayer of holiness? Will you have to be martyred first? I believe quite a few Christians think that there will be a lot of martyrs in the last days. (Needless to say, they don't get to preach very often.) If they're right about it, what do you think your chances are of escaping it? Well, I'll tell you: if you're not willing to be holy, they are exactly zero! Hell's angels are coming for you!

16 - Revelation 6:10 - And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O LORD, holy and true, doest THOU not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

17 - Of course GOD wouldn't judge your baby if it had just been created but, if it has been in existence as a spiritually knowledgeable, sinning, unrepentant satanic person for over 5000 years, HE just might eh?

[DPMartin]

[Replying to post 1 by ttruscott]

its quite apparent you didn't get the memo that mankind has already been judged as a result of man's own judgement (Adam and Eve). all their children (the human race) now receives the life of dust to dust ashes to ashes that animals already had at that time, that God Judged in Mercy to them that they and their children may continue to exist. with a hope of salvation and restoration to the Life A&E had before the tree.


Luk 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

that the Son of God has restored the availability to the called, chosen, and faithful. that came before Christ came into the world and came into the world after Jesus return to the Right Hand of Power.

[ttruscott]

You mean Satan et al are ensconced in hell and this is the New Jerusalem and I missed the memo? No, I know you do not...but those ARE the results of the judgement.

I could have written the FINAL judgement, the Great White Throne Judgement I suppose but I never thought it necessary.

When Satan was thrown to the earth, why was he not sent into hell? His being sent to hell with his cohorts is the final judgement that has yet to happen. Since GOD cannot abide evil and since they are condemned already Jn 3:18, why are they not in hell? Because that would also destroy the sinful but good seed, the sinful people of the kingdom on earth so as long as one of them is still sinful, the judgement is postponed, "No, do not root them out lest the good seed is pulled up too. Let them live together."

The "judgement" of the sinful people having the earth bring forth thistles and weeds (the parable of the sinful good seed Matt 13) is not really a judgment at all but punishment on the lines of Heb 12:5-11.

[DPMartin]

[Replying to post 3 by ttruscott]

nope not at all

the judge judges in his court (in this case Gen 3:14-24) but the condemned have yet to experience the fulfillment of their condemnation, just as the condemned to death await their hanging. (the "day of the Lord")

anything more then that, is deceptive hog wash. everything related to the subject of the result of man's judgement revolves around that, because, God's Judgement is Life and any other judgement is not life.

[ttruscott]

nope not at all

Would you care to exegete these verses I quoted and tell me where my interpretation is wrong and then offer your own interpretation of each one instead of this blanket opinion that smells so strongly of a knee jerk?

It is supposed to be a bible study after all - let's have some bible, eh? I'll even show the way: you quote Gen 3:14-24 in which we see the serpent, all the animals both domesticated and wild and the ground. I see no judgement against Adam except that the curse upon the ground will make his life hard and Eve's suffering will increase due to increased children Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow AND thy conception; there really is an and in this place...the prophecy does not say sorrow IN conception (as orthodoxy loves to assert) but AND conception.

Any ideas why the consequence for her sin should be 'increased' conception'? Did GOD not have everyone HE wanted to be created already in mind to be created? Did HE change HIS mind and pile on more children for her than HE originally planned?

Within PCE, it is plausible that she was the leader of the elect who fell into the sin of idolizing the reprobate above the command of GOD to come out from among them and touch not the unclean thing...forcing the judgement to be postponed and also responsible for all those who fallowed her into this sin that therefore had to be born into the world (sown, not created, as per Matt 13:37-38)

Realizing that she had caused so many people to need to enter this prison world of suffering and death by conception as a human must have been a great sorrow for her...

[ttruscott]

nope not at all

Would you care to exegete these verses I quoted and tell me where my interpretation is wrong and then offer your own interpretation of each one instead of this blanket opinion that smells so strongly of a knee jerk?

It is supposed to be a bible study after all - let's have some bible, eh? I'll even show the way: you quote Gen 3:14-24 in which we see the serpent, all the animals both domesticated and wild and the ground are all cursed.... I see no judgement against Adam except that the curse upon the ground will make his life hard and Eve's suffering will increase due to increased children Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow AND thy conception; there really is a vav and in this place...the prophecy does not say sorrow IN conception (as orthodoxy loves to assert) but AND conception...as per

Similar to the Hebrew letter Hei, the Vav is one of a handful of Hebrew letters that has its own meaning. When attached to the beginning of a word, the Vav has the meaning of “and�. http://www.hebrewtoday.com/content/hebr ... vav-%D7%95

Any ideas why the consequence for her sin should be 'increased' conception'? Did GOD not have everyone HE wanted to be created already in mind to be created? Did HE change HIS mind and pile on more children for her than HE originally planned?

Within PCE, it is plausible that she was the leader of the elect who fell into the sin of idolizing the reprobate above the command of GOD to come out from among them and touch not the unclean thing...forcing the judgement to be postponed and also responsible for all those who fallowed her into this sin that therefore had to be born into the world (sown, not created, as per Matt 13:37-38)

Realizing that she had caused so many people to need to enter this prison world of suffering and death by conception as a human must have been a great sorrow for her...

[ttruscott]

Why can't I edit???

[DPMartin]

[Replying to post 5 by ttruscott]

what's PCE is that Personal consumption expenditures or is it some kind of mentally deranged condition.


don't you know theology is of men? therefore not of God.

the correct interpretation of scripture is Jesus Christ because He is the fulfillment of the same, according to the Word of God to His Father's satisfaction.


to what value is your PCE if its not of God? the Almighty could give to poo's about what men think or speculate about what they don't know. so why to you care so much about what God could care less about? don't you know what is of men returns to the earth and what is of God remains with God?

[ttruscott]

[Replying to post 5 by ttruscott]

what's PCE is that Personal consumption expenditures or is it some kind of mentally deranged condition.


don't you know theology is of men? therefore not of God.

So no exegesis, just a rant. Ok...

[puddleglum]

The problem with the OP is that it is based on the belief that all of us existed before our physical existence. There is absolutely no Biblical basis for this belief so whatever else the OP says if false.