.
Hello;
Back around 2000 or 2001; I got the daring idea to begin composing a daily, bite-size commentary on the book of Genesis. It was a clumsy effort at first but I stuck with it and as time went by, it got pretty good. On some forums where I've survived opposition long enough to complete the whole fifty chapters, Genesis has attracted several thousand views.
As of today's date, I'm 76 years old; and an on-going student of the Bible since 1968 via sermons, seminars, lectures, Sunday school classes, radio Bible programs, and various authors of a number of Bible-related books. Fifty-two years of Bible under my belt hasn't made me an authority; but they've at least made me competent enough to tackle Genesis.
Barring emergencies, accidents, vacations, unforeseen circumstances, and/or insurmountable distractions, database errors, pandemic shut-downs, computer crashes, black outs, brown outs, deaths in the family, Wall Street Armageddon, thread hijackers, excessive quarrelling and debating, the dog ate my homework, visiting relatives, ISIS, car repairs, Black Friday, Cyber Monday, student walk-outs, Carrington events, gasoline prices, medical issues, and/or hard luck and the forces of nature; I'm making an effort to post something every day including Sundays and holidays.
Some really good stuff is in Genesis: the origin of the cosmos, Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel, the Flood, tower of Babel, and the origin of the Jews.
Big-name celebrities like Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac and Ishmael, Rebecca, Jacob and Esau, and Joseph are here.
Not here are Moses vs. Pharaoh and the parting of the Red Sea. That story is in Exodus; Samson and Delilah are in Judges, David and Goliath are in 1Samuel; and Ruth and Esther are in books of the Bible named after them.
The author of Genesis is currently unknown; but commonly attributed to Moses. Seeing as he penned Exodus (Mark 12:26) it's conceivable that Moses also penned Genesis; but in reality, nobody really knows for sure.
Scholars have estimated the date of its writing at around 1450-1410 BC; a mere 3,400± years ago, which is pretty recent in the grand scheme of Earth's geological history.
Genesis may in fact be the result of several contributors beginning as far back as Adam himself; who would certainly know more about the creation than anybody, and who entertained no doubts whatsoever about the existence of an intelligent designer since he knew the creator Himself like a next door neighbor.
As time went by, others like Seth and Noah would add their own experiences to the record, and then Abraham his, Isaac his, Jacob his, and finally Judah or one of his descendants completing the record with Joseph's burial.
Genesis is quoted more than sixty times in the New Testament; and Christ authenticated its Divine inspiration by referring to it in his own teachings. (e.g. Matt 19:4-6, Matt 24:37-39, Mk 10:4-9, Luke 11:49-51, Luke 17:26 29 & 32, John 7:21-23, John 8:44 and John 8:56)
Buen Camino
(Pleasant Journey)
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Genesis For The Mildly Curious
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WebersHome
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Re: Genesis For The Mildly Curious
Post #111WebersHome, you have posted nine (9) posts one right after the other. Is this repetition some sort of self healing-?
just curious
no animosity intended or implied
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thomasdixon
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Re: Genesis For The Mildly Curious
Post #112To begin with you must take into account that the book of Genesis was written to and for the human population at the time it was written. Genesis was written in the middle of the 5th century BC.; Columbus sailed to the new world in 1492 AC. The difference between the two is 2,518 years.
If you read Genesis taking into account the people who were hearing these words it is right on mark. And those who waste their time trying to dismiss it fail to see the forest for the trees.
Having said that; discussing the pros and con gives us something to do which is better than robbing the store next door.
In my view of things
If you read Genesis taking into account the people who were hearing these words it is right on mark. And those who waste their time trying to dismiss it fail to see the forest for the trees.
Having said that; discussing the pros and con gives us something to do which is better than robbing the store next door.
In my view of things
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Re: Genesis For The Mildly Curious
Post #113Following is a chronical order of the development of mankind on this planet.
Scientists have proven the following in the order given even though at the time it was written people still believed the earth was flat.
I believe an outside source put these facts into the minds of the righters for us all to contemplate
Genesis The Beginning
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.
4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness.
5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
6 And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.”
9 And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so.
10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.
11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so.
12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars.
20 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.”
21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind.
24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.”
26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”
31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV
And so it was done
Scientists have proven the following in the order given even though at the time it was written people still believed the earth was flat.
I believe an outside source put these facts into the minds of the righters for us all to contemplate
Genesis The Beginning
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.
4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness.
5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
6 And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.”
9 And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so.
10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.
11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so.
12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars.
20 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.”
21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind.
24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.”
26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”
31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV
And so it was done
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WebersHome
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Re: Genesis For The Mildly Curious
Post #114My posts aren't repetitious; they're all different; nor are they random: they're systematic.
Healing? No; this is one of my hobbies, i.e. I do it for entertainment.
BTW: This area of the site is set up for Bible study, so please; let's not use the thread for a chat room.
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Last edited by WebersHome on Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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WebersHome
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Re: Genesis For The Mildly Curious
Post #115.
• Gen 14:19-20a . . He blessed him, saying: Blessed be Abram of God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth. And blessed be God Most High, Who has delivered your foes into your hand.
At this point in time, Abram's relationship with God was very satisfactory. 'Elyown had nothing critical for Mel to say of Abram; and Mel verified that God was the reason behind Abram's success in battle. David's too.
"In your strength I can crush an army; with my God I can scale any wall (2Sam 22:30)
"He prepares me for battle; he strengthens me to draw a bow of bronze. (2 Sam 22:35)
"Blessed be the Lord, my rock, who trains my hands for war, and my fingers for battle" (Ps 144:1)
etc.
There are Christians who, allegedly for conscience sake, are totally against all war and violence. They fail to appreciate that peace, liberty, and human rights are preserved in an evil world only by force of arms.
Conscientious objectors-- while refusing to put themselves in harm's way standing guard over their family and their country, and to lend a hand in keeping the world a relatively safe, stable place to live, sacrificing their own lives and futures if need be --don't seem to mind taking advantage of the abundance of benefits purchased by the blood of others whom they despise as baby killers and war mongers.
• Gen 14:20b . . And [Abram] gave him a tenth of everything.
According to Heb 7:1-4, this particular tenth regarded only the recent spoils of war; not of all Abram's estate in its entirety. So then, tenths should be reserved for times when you know in your heart that it was God who engineered your success.
Just exactly how King Mel disposed of Abram's tenth isn't stated; but typically contributions back then went towards a local priest's support. This principle would apply of course only if Mel was useful to Abram as a priest; viz: a source of spiritual counseling and/or a mediator between himself and God, otherwise Abram would owe him nothing.
But enough of that. A comprehensive dissertation on the Melchizedekian priesthood is located in the New Testament's open letter to the Hebrew people.
• Gen 14:21 . .Then the king of Sodom said to Abram: Give me the persons, and take the possessions for yourself.
Sheik Bera was very grateful to Abram, and asked only for the return of his fellow citizens; but not for the return of their stolen goods. Abram was more than welcome to keep it all as his reward for rescuing the people of the Plain. Although Bera and his citizens were very wicked, this is one time I have to give him some credit for showing excellent propriety.
But Abram refused. There was just no way he was going to get rich by exploiting his own neighbors' misfortunes. Although he had a perfect right, within the customs of that day, to all the spoils of war, (a tenth of which he already gave to Melchizedek) he waived it in favor of looking out for Sheik Bera's best interests. I tell you, this man Abram was incredibly gracious; and his manner of life, as a rule, made his religion, and his god, look pretty good.
• Gen 14:22-23 . .But Abram said to the king of Sodom: I swear to the Lord God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth; I will not take so much as a thread or a sandal strap of what is yours; you shall not say: It is I who made Abram rich
When you get down to it; a person's reputation is all that really matters in life; because it's really the only thing we take with us when we pass on. Abram didn't want to be known as someone who got rich through the misfortunes of others. And that is exactly what would have happened had he agreed to Bera's suggestion. You can imagine what that would have done to his influence for God in that region; and how it would have ruined Abram's own self respect. It would be awful indeed if people round about gossiped that Abram's only motive for rescuing his nephew was for profit.
Abram didn't need Bera's stuff anyway. What the heck; he had plenty back home already. Why be greedy? I mean: how much does it really take to satisfy? Does a man really have to own every skyscraper, every square foot of real estate, every drop of water, every cow, pig, and chicken, every inch of agricultural land, every fruit and vegetable seed sold around the world, every watt of electricity, every telephone system, every share of stock in a blue chip company, every software program, every car dealership, every oil well, every refinery, every electric generating plant, every natural gas supplier, a monopoly on insecticide and weed killer, every utility, and every hotel and apartment building before he feels he has enough?
When will Walmart's corporate managers finally say "Lets stop expanding. We have enough market share". They never will because Walmart's greed and its predatory nature knows no bounds.
As I watched a NetFlix documentary about corn production; the producers visited a chemical plant that makes high fructose corn syrup. The manager of the plant was asked how much market share his product had. After answering, he was then asked how much market share he would like to have; and he answered "all of it"
The Supreme Almighty God, who had so blessed Abram thus far, would surely continue to do so. Abram had far more personal honor and self respect than the predatory ENRON traders who took advantage of forest fires in California some years ago to raise that State's electric rates.
• Gen 14:24 . . For me, nothing but what my servants have used up; as for the share of the men who went with me-- Aner, Eshkol, and Mamre --let them take their share.
Abram's only request was replacement of his own provisions that his troops consumed during the mission. He didn't permit them to take a share of the spoils; and since they were his slaves; they had no say in it. But his Amorite allies spoke for themselves. If they wanted anything, it was their own decisions about it and Abram didn't interfere. I mean, after all; the cities of the plain owed the Amorite guys at least a little something as compensation for saving their bacon.
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• Gen 14:19-20a . . He blessed him, saying: Blessed be Abram of God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth. And blessed be God Most High, Who has delivered your foes into your hand.
At this point in time, Abram's relationship with God was very satisfactory. 'Elyown had nothing critical for Mel to say of Abram; and Mel verified that God was the reason behind Abram's success in battle. David's too.
"In your strength I can crush an army; with my God I can scale any wall (2Sam 22:30)
"He prepares me for battle; he strengthens me to draw a bow of bronze. (2 Sam 22:35)
"Blessed be the Lord, my rock, who trains my hands for war, and my fingers for battle" (Ps 144:1)
etc.
There are Christians who, allegedly for conscience sake, are totally against all war and violence. They fail to appreciate that peace, liberty, and human rights are preserved in an evil world only by force of arms.
Conscientious objectors-- while refusing to put themselves in harm's way standing guard over their family and their country, and to lend a hand in keeping the world a relatively safe, stable place to live, sacrificing their own lives and futures if need be --don't seem to mind taking advantage of the abundance of benefits purchased by the blood of others whom they despise as baby killers and war mongers.
• Gen 14:20b . . And [Abram] gave him a tenth of everything.
According to Heb 7:1-4, this particular tenth regarded only the recent spoils of war; not of all Abram's estate in its entirety. So then, tenths should be reserved for times when you know in your heart that it was God who engineered your success.
Just exactly how King Mel disposed of Abram's tenth isn't stated; but typically contributions back then went towards a local priest's support. This principle would apply of course only if Mel was useful to Abram as a priest; viz: a source of spiritual counseling and/or a mediator between himself and God, otherwise Abram would owe him nothing.
But enough of that. A comprehensive dissertation on the Melchizedekian priesthood is located in the New Testament's open letter to the Hebrew people.
• Gen 14:21 . .Then the king of Sodom said to Abram: Give me the persons, and take the possessions for yourself.
Sheik Bera was very grateful to Abram, and asked only for the return of his fellow citizens; but not for the return of their stolen goods. Abram was more than welcome to keep it all as his reward for rescuing the people of the Plain. Although Bera and his citizens were very wicked, this is one time I have to give him some credit for showing excellent propriety.
But Abram refused. There was just no way he was going to get rich by exploiting his own neighbors' misfortunes. Although he had a perfect right, within the customs of that day, to all the spoils of war, (a tenth of which he already gave to Melchizedek) he waived it in favor of looking out for Sheik Bera's best interests. I tell you, this man Abram was incredibly gracious; and his manner of life, as a rule, made his religion, and his god, look pretty good.
• Gen 14:22-23 . .But Abram said to the king of Sodom: I swear to the Lord God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth; I will not take so much as a thread or a sandal strap of what is yours; you shall not say: It is I who made Abram rich
When you get down to it; a person's reputation is all that really matters in life; because it's really the only thing we take with us when we pass on. Abram didn't want to be known as someone who got rich through the misfortunes of others. And that is exactly what would have happened had he agreed to Bera's suggestion. You can imagine what that would have done to his influence for God in that region; and how it would have ruined Abram's own self respect. It would be awful indeed if people round about gossiped that Abram's only motive for rescuing his nephew was for profit.
Abram didn't need Bera's stuff anyway. What the heck; he had plenty back home already. Why be greedy? I mean: how much does it really take to satisfy? Does a man really have to own every skyscraper, every square foot of real estate, every drop of water, every cow, pig, and chicken, every inch of agricultural land, every fruit and vegetable seed sold around the world, every watt of electricity, every telephone system, every share of stock in a blue chip company, every software program, every car dealership, every oil well, every refinery, every electric generating plant, every natural gas supplier, a monopoly on insecticide and weed killer, every utility, and every hotel and apartment building before he feels he has enough?
When will Walmart's corporate managers finally say "Lets stop expanding. We have enough market share". They never will because Walmart's greed and its predatory nature knows no bounds.
As I watched a NetFlix documentary about corn production; the producers visited a chemical plant that makes high fructose corn syrup. The manager of the plant was asked how much market share his product had. After answering, he was then asked how much market share he would like to have; and he answered "all of it"
The Supreme Almighty God, who had so blessed Abram thus far, would surely continue to do so. Abram had far more personal honor and self respect than the predatory ENRON traders who took advantage of forest fires in California some years ago to raise that State's electric rates.
• Gen 14:24 . . For me, nothing but what my servants have used up; as for the share of the men who went with me-- Aner, Eshkol, and Mamre --let them take their share.
Abram's only request was replacement of his own provisions that his troops consumed during the mission. He didn't permit them to take a share of the spoils; and since they were his slaves; they had no say in it. But his Amorite allies spoke for themselves. If they wanted anything, it was their own decisions about it and Abram didn't interfere. I mean, after all; the cities of the plain owed the Amorite guys at least a little something as compensation for saving their bacon.
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thomasdixon
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Re: Genesis For The Mildly Curious
Post #116WebersHome wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:26 pmMy posts aren't repetitious; they're all different; nor are they random: they're systematic.
Yes they are and I had no business saying what I did. I wish I had the biblical understanding you have.
Please forgive me for my rude and crude references to your biblical referencing of verses
Again, please forgive me
Speaking of bible study, I found the following and it is a mix of biblical verses and historical events intermixed.WebersHome wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:26 pm Healing? No; this is one of my hobbies, i.e. I do it for entertainment.
Again, please forgive me
BTW: This area of the site is set up for Bible study, so please; let's not use the thread for a chat room.
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What's your take on it-- you need to go full screen to view it correctly
http://www.universalknowledge.net/id16.html
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WebersHome
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Re: Genesis For The Mildly Curious
Post #117.
Thanks for the suggestion; but I have too much on my plate as it is.
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thomasdixon wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:08 pmI found the following and it is a mix of biblical verses and historical events intermixed. What's your take on it
http://www.universalknowledge.net/id16.html
Thanks for the suggestion; but I have too much on my plate as it is.
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WebersHome
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Re: Genesis For The Mildly Curious
Post #118.
• Gen 15:1a . . Some time later, the word of the Lord came to Abram in a vision.
This is the very first record of a vision in the Bible. The Hebrew word is machazeh (makh-az-eh') and it appears in only four places in the entire Old Testament; which is pretty amazing considering the volume of prophecy the Old Testament contains.
Visions aren't always visible scenes, but sometimes contain only audible words; and this is one of those instances. It wasn't the Lord who came to Abram in a vision: it was His word; viz: this vision was something heard rather than seen i.e. a message.
• Gen 15:1b . . Fear not, Abram, I am a shield to you;
The vision informed Abram that Yhvh intended to protect him; which was a good thing because quite possibly Abram at this time was feeling a bit anxious that a counterattack might be organized up in Shinar and return to Canaan for revenge with a much larger force than the one recently defeated.
• Gen 15:1c . .Your reward shall be very great.
In other words; his reward would be much greater than the one he just recently forfeited. In those days, it was winner takes all; but Abram had not exercised that option.
Below is an ancient take on the event.
T. Thereupon was the word of the Lord with Abram in a vision, saying: Fear not; for if these men should gather together in legions and come against thee, My Word will be thy shield: and also if these fall before thee in this world, the reward of thy good works shall be kept, and be prepared before Me in the world to come, great exceedingly. (Targum Jonathan)
• Gen 15:2a . . But Abram said: O Lord God, what can You give me, seeing that I shall die childless,
Apparently Abram misunderstood God back in Gen 12:2 when He promised to make of Abram a great nation; even though God restated the promise at Gen 12:7 and Gen 13:15 and clearly meant Abram would engender biological progeny. However, I think the man had grown so accustomed to Sarah's sterility that it just never occurred to him that God's promise might actually be for real.
• Gen 15:2b . . and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?
Eliezer wasn't Abram's blood kin; however, by common law in Canaan, he was Abram's default heir apparent in the absence of legal progeny.
• Gen 15:3 . . Abram said further: Since You have granted me no offspring, my steward will be my heir.
When a man without children died in that day, common law stipulated that his chief steward got it all and had a legal right to pass it all on to his own son. Abram had no real estate, but if he did, then Eliezer would get that too in the event Abram died with no heir. Sarai? Well, she'd probably stay on as Eliezer's concubine.
But the real danger at this point wasn't to Abram's gold, silver, slaves, herds, and women; but to the promises that God made to Abram concerning his heir. Those would pass to Eliezer too.
• Gen 15:4-5 . .The word of The Lord came to him in reply: That one shall not be your heir; none but your very own issue shall be your heir. He took him outside and said: Look toward heaven and count the stars, if you are able to count them. And He added: So shall your offspring be.
In Abram's day, prior to the invention of optics, the only stars that people could see with their own eyes were those in our home galaxy; the Milky Way; which consists of an estimated 100-400 billion stars. But many of those estimated billions of stars appear to the naked eye not as stars but as glowing clouds; viz: they cannot be individually distinguished by the naked eye so those didn't matter to Abram when it came to actually tallying the heavens.
The entire global sky contains roughly five or six thousand stars visible to the naked eye. However, we can't see all those stars at once; only the ones when the sky is dark. So then; in Abram's day, he could see at most three thousand discernible stars from dark till dawn. God had said "if you are able to count them". Well; even at only three thousand, the task would be difficult.
NOTE: The term "stars" may have been an ancient colloquialism for large numbers of just about anything. Compare Heb 12:1 where "cloud" is a term for the same purpose.
Anyway . . it finally sank in that God's promise was for real and that's when one of the most significant events in history took place.
• Gen 15:6 . . And he believed in Yhvh; and He counted it to him for righteousness.
That is the very first time anything "righteous" was said about Abram in Genesis; and it resulted not from piety, but rather, from belief.
The Hebrew word for "belief" is horribly ambiguous. 'Aman can mean, among other things: (1) to build up or support, (2) to foster as a parent or nurse, (3) figuratively to render (or be) firm or faithful, (4) to trust or believe, (5) to be permanent or quiet, (6) to be morally true or certain, and (7) to rely upon.
Any choice I make from that list would be entirely arbitrary; but my money is upon trust and reliance because at that moment, Abram began seriously pinning his hopes on God to do something about his childless situation.
The thing to note is that Abram's hope wasn't based upon wishful thinking. No; he had a testimony from God to justify his confidence.
According to the first chapter of Genesis; the cosmos-- all of its forms of life, matter, and energy --is the result of intelligent design. Do people gain a degree of righteousness when they believe that chapter is true? No; I mean, even demons believe that chapter is true; and fat lot of good it does them because there are no personal guarantees in that chapter; it's entirely academic.
But how about this?
"I came down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of the One who sent me. And this is the will of the One who sent me, that I should not lose anything of what He gave me, but that I should raise it [on] the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him may have eternal life, and I shall raise him [on] the last day." (John 6:38-40)
Whether people do or don't rely upon and/or trust that statement will have no effect upon its outcome; viz: it is going to happen. However, their doubt will cost them a degree of righteousness because John 3:38-40 isn't academic; no, it's a personal guarantee.
_
• Gen 15:1a . . Some time later, the word of the Lord came to Abram in a vision.
This is the very first record of a vision in the Bible. The Hebrew word is machazeh (makh-az-eh') and it appears in only four places in the entire Old Testament; which is pretty amazing considering the volume of prophecy the Old Testament contains.
Visions aren't always visible scenes, but sometimes contain only audible words; and this is one of those instances. It wasn't the Lord who came to Abram in a vision: it was His word; viz: this vision was something heard rather than seen i.e. a message.
• Gen 15:1b . . Fear not, Abram, I am a shield to you;
The vision informed Abram that Yhvh intended to protect him; which was a good thing because quite possibly Abram at this time was feeling a bit anxious that a counterattack might be organized up in Shinar and return to Canaan for revenge with a much larger force than the one recently defeated.
• Gen 15:1c . .Your reward shall be very great.
In other words; his reward would be much greater than the one he just recently forfeited. In those days, it was winner takes all; but Abram had not exercised that option.
Below is an ancient take on the event.
T. Thereupon was the word of the Lord with Abram in a vision, saying: Fear not; for if these men should gather together in legions and come against thee, My Word will be thy shield: and also if these fall before thee in this world, the reward of thy good works shall be kept, and be prepared before Me in the world to come, great exceedingly. (Targum Jonathan)
• Gen 15:2a . . But Abram said: O Lord God, what can You give me, seeing that I shall die childless,
Apparently Abram misunderstood God back in Gen 12:2 when He promised to make of Abram a great nation; even though God restated the promise at Gen 12:7 and Gen 13:15 and clearly meant Abram would engender biological progeny. However, I think the man had grown so accustomed to Sarah's sterility that it just never occurred to him that God's promise might actually be for real.
• Gen 15:2b . . and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?
Eliezer wasn't Abram's blood kin; however, by common law in Canaan, he was Abram's default heir apparent in the absence of legal progeny.
• Gen 15:3 . . Abram said further: Since You have granted me no offspring, my steward will be my heir.
When a man without children died in that day, common law stipulated that his chief steward got it all and had a legal right to pass it all on to his own son. Abram had no real estate, but if he did, then Eliezer would get that too in the event Abram died with no heir. Sarai? Well, she'd probably stay on as Eliezer's concubine.
But the real danger at this point wasn't to Abram's gold, silver, slaves, herds, and women; but to the promises that God made to Abram concerning his heir. Those would pass to Eliezer too.
• Gen 15:4-5 . .The word of The Lord came to him in reply: That one shall not be your heir; none but your very own issue shall be your heir. He took him outside and said: Look toward heaven and count the stars, if you are able to count them. And He added: So shall your offspring be.
In Abram's day, prior to the invention of optics, the only stars that people could see with their own eyes were those in our home galaxy; the Milky Way; which consists of an estimated 100-400 billion stars. But many of those estimated billions of stars appear to the naked eye not as stars but as glowing clouds; viz: they cannot be individually distinguished by the naked eye so those didn't matter to Abram when it came to actually tallying the heavens.
The entire global sky contains roughly five or six thousand stars visible to the naked eye. However, we can't see all those stars at once; only the ones when the sky is dark. So then; in Abram's day, he could see at most three thousand discernible stars from dark till dawn. God had said "if you are able to count them". Well; even at only three thousand, the task would be difficult.
NOTE: The term "stars" may have been an ancient colloquialism for large numbers of just about anything. Compare Heb 12:1 where "cloud" is a term for the same purpose.
Anyway . . it finally sank in that God's promise was for real and that's when one of the most significant events in history took place.
• Gen 15:6 . . And he believed in Yhvh; and He counted it to him for righteousness.
That is the very first time anything "righteous" was said about Abram in Genesis; and it resulted not from piety, but rather, from belief.
The Hebrew word for "belief" is horribly ambiguous. 'Aman can mean, among other things: (1) to build up or support, (2) to foster as a parent or nurse, (3) figuratively to render (or be) firm or faithful, (4) to trust or believe, (5) to be permanent or quiet, (6) to be morally true or certain, and (7) to rely upon.
Any choice I make from that list would be entirely arbitrary; but my money is upon trust and reliance because at that moment, Abram began seriously pinning his hopes on God to do something about his childless situation.
The thing to note is that Abram's hope wasn't based upon wishful thinking. No; he had a testimony from God to justify his confidence.
According to the first chapter of Genesis; the cosmos-- all of its forms of life, matter, and energy --is the result of intelligent design. Do people gain a degree of righteousness when they believe that chapter is true? No; I mean, even demons believe that chapter is true; and fat lot of good it does them because there are no personal guarantees in that chapter; it's entirely academic.
But how about this?
"I came down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of the One who sent me. And this is the will of the One who sent me, that I should not lose anything of what He gave me, but that I should raise it [on] the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him may have eternal life, and I shall raise him [on] the last day." (John 6:38-40)
Whether people do or don't rely upon and/or trust that statement will have no effect upon its outcome; viz: it is going to happen. However, their doubt will cost them a degree of righteousness because John 3:38-40 isn't academic; no, it's a personal guarantee.
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WebersHome
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Re: Genesis For The Mildly Curious
Post #119.
• Gen 15:7a . .Then He said to him: I am The Lord who brought you out from Ur of the Chaldeans
God here identifies Himself as Yhvh (a.k.a. Jehovah, a.k.a. Yahweh). That may seem unimportant but there are those who claim Abram was unaware of that name because of Ex 6:3. But it just goes to show you that sometimes the Bible is not all that easy to understand.
One thing we should never overlook about Abram is that, although he was a Hebrew, he was never a Jew. He and his wife Sarai were both Gentiles whom God selected to engender the people of Israel. There was nothing particularly special about Abram. In fact he came from a city, and a family, of idolaters. (Josh 24:2)
So God began by reminding Abram of his roots. Abram was a Babylonian; and it was God who took an interest in him, and the one who got him out of there and gave him a future. It wasn't Abram's idea to re-invent himself; nor was it Abram's idea to pack up and leave his native country. Actually, if not for God's interference, Abram would've still been back at Ur, living like a pagan.
• Gen 15:7b . . to assign this land to you as a possession.
God gave this man a future. Abram was a nobody, going nowhere in Ur. Of His own sovereign volition, God moved into Abram's life and made a difference. He'll do the very same thing again later on with Jacob.
Some Gentile Christians are way too puffed up with religious pride. It wouldn't hurt a few of them to consider their own roots once in a while too because they have absolutely nothing to brag about.
"As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath.
. . . But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions-- it is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus." (Eph 2:1-7)
"Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called uncircumcised by those who call themselves "the circumcision" (that done in the body by the hands of men)-- remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ." (Eph 2:11-13)
• Gen 15:8 . . And he said: O Lord God, how shall I know that I am to possess it?
When men struck deals in those days, they gave each other a token of their word. What Abram requested was sort of akin to a notarized signature. That's interesting because though Abram believed God's promise of a biological heir; he didn't really have all that much confidence in God's promise of the heir possessing Canaan. In other words: Abram wanted a token of God's good faith.
During this dialogue, Abram has been calling God by the title 'Adonay (ad-o noy') which means Lord, Sovereign, and/or Master (as a proper name for only God) This is, in point of fact, the very first instance in the Bible of somebody addressing God by that title. It is precisely what everyone should call God only when they are serious about living in compliance with His will.
So please don't ever address your maker as Lord, Sovereign, and/or Master unless you mean it. It is very insulting, and quite meaningless, to refer to someone as your commander when you have no intention of doing what they say or if you're going about it in a half-hearted manner.
"And why do you call me Lord and Master and do not what I say?" (Luke 6:46)
"A son honors his father, and a servant his lord. If I am a father, where is the honor due me? If I am a lord, where is the respect due me?-- protests the Lord of Hosts." (Mal 1:6)
• Gen 15:9-10 . . He answered: Bring Me a three-year-old heifer, a three-year-old she-goat, a three-year-old ram, a turtledove, and a young bird. He brought Him all these and cut them in two, placing each half opposite the other; but he did not divide the [young] bird.
Full grown turtledoves are towr (tore). Young birds are gowzal (go-zawl') viz: nestlings, quite possibly still covered in chick down. Of all the animals that God specified, the gowzal is the only one that wasn't mature. How Abram knew to cut the mature ones in two pieces is not stated.
The ritual that is about to take place amounted to a notary public. Abram wanted God's name on the dotted line and this is the way God chose to do it. This ritual may look silly and barbarous to modern Man, but it was serious business and may very well have been a common custom for sealing pacts in the Canaan of that day.
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• Gen 15:7a . .Then He said to him: I am The Lord who brought you out from Ur of the Chaldeans
God here identifies Himself as Yhvh (a.k.a. Jehovah, a.k.a. Yahweh). That may seem unimportant but there are those who claim Abram was unaware of that name because of Ex 6:3. But it just goes to show you that sometimes the Bible is not all that easy to understand.
One thing we should never overlook about Abram is that, although he was a Hebrew, he was never a Jew. He and his wife Sarai were both Gentiles whom God selected to engender the people of Israel. There was nothing particularly special about Abram. In fact he came from a city, and a family, of idolaters. (Josh 24:2)
So God began by reminding Abram of his roots. Abram was a Babylonian; and it was God who took an interest in him, and the one who got him out of there and gave him a future. It wasn't Abram's idea to re-invent himself; nor was it Abram's idea to pack up and leave his native country. Actually, if not for God's interference, Abram would've still been back at Ur, living like a pagan.
• Gen 15:7b . . to assign this land to you as a possession.
God gave this man a future. Abram was a nobody, going nowhere in Ur. Of His own sovereign volition, God moved into Abram's life and made a difference. He'll do the very same thing again later on with Jacob.
Some Gentile Christians are way too puffed up with religious pride. It wouldn't hurt a few of them to consider their own roots once in a while too because they have absolutely nothing to brag about.
"As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath.
. . . But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions-- it is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus." (Eph 2:1-7)
"Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called uncircumcised by those who call themselves "the circumcision" (that done in the body by the hands of men)-- remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ." (Eph 2:11-13)
• Gen 15:8 . . And he said: O Lord God, how shall I know that I am to possess it?
When men struck deals in those days, they gave each other a token of their word. What Abram requested was sort of akin to a notarized signature. That's interesting because though Abram believed God's promise of a biological heir; he didn't really have all that much confidence in God's promise of the heir possessing Canaan. In other words: Abram wanted a token of God's good faith.
During this dialogue, Abram has been calling God by the title 'Adonay (ad-o noy') which means Lord, Sovereign, and/or Master (as a proper name for only God) This is, in point of fact, the very first instance in the Bible of somebody addressing God by that title. It is precisely what everyone should call God only when they are serious about living in compliance with His will.
So please don't ever address your maker as Lord, Sovereign, and/or Master unless you mean it. It is very insulting, and quite meaningless, to refer to someone as your commander when you have no intention of doing what they say or if you're going about it in a half-hearted manner.
"And why do you call me Lord and Master and do not what I say?" (Luke 6:46)
"A son honors his father, and a servant his lord. If I am a father, where is the honor due me? If I am a lord, where is the respect due me?-- protests the Lord of Hosts." (Mal 1:6)
• Gen 15:9-10 . . He answered: Bring Me a three-year-old heifer, a three-year-old she-goat, a three-year-old ram, a turtledove, and a young bird. He brought Him all these and cut them in two, placing each half opposite the other; but he did not divide the [young] bird.
Full grown turtledoves are towr (tore). Young birds are gowzal (go-zawl') viz: nestlings, quite possibly still covered in chick down. Of all the animals that God specified, the gowzal is the only one that wasn't mature. How Abram knew to cut the mature ones in two pieces is not stated.
The ritual that is about to take place amounted to a notary public. Abram wanted God's name on the dotted line and this is the way God chose to do it. This ritual may look silly and barbarous to modern Man, but it was serious business and may very well have been a common custom for sealing pacts in the Canaan of that day.
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thomasdixon
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Re: Genesis For The Mildly Curious
Post #120WebersHome wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:12 amWhen men struck deals in those days, they gave each other a token of their word. What Abram requested was sort of akin to a notarized signature. That's interesting because though Abram believed God's promise of a biological heir; he didn't really have all that much confidence in God's promise of the heir possessing Canaan. In other words: Abram wanted a token of God's good faith.
According to the biblical account, Abram (“The Father [or God] Is Exalted”), who is later named Abraham (“The Father of Many Nations”), a native of Ur in Mesopotamia, is called by God (Yahweh) to leave his own country and people and journey to an undesignated land, where he will become the founder of a new nation.
https://tinyurl.com/y67nuo3r
Abraham, Hebrew Avraham, originally called Abram or, in Hebrew, Avram, (flourished early 2nd millennium BCE), the first of the Hebrew patriarchs and a figure revered by the three great monotheistic religions—Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Abraham
I am not sure what your point is in pasting all those verses but I do know Abram and Abraham are one in the same; having said that what are you trying to convey in your own words rather than a long list if verses. In short, what do these verses mean to you-?
