https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/ ... 45#1008245
Yes I agree. Muslims tend to stay away from saying whether someone specific deserves hell or not since we believe guidance comes from God Almighty and He can take it away from us at any point. Iâ€™m sure many people have experienced periods of low and high faith during their lifetimes and so weâ€™re not supposed to say whether someone specific is going to hell or not, that is up to God not us. We know that certain â€˜actionsâ€™ can lead to hell fire like the murdering of innocents, but I cannot say â€˜Johnâ€™ is going to hell. That is forbidden in our religion. Only God knows whoâ€™s going where."Now son/daughter, don't fret over them, they deserve eternal torment in hell." There is no good in these teachings.â€�
Weâ€™re told in the Qurâ€™an:â€œAnd there it is. One group disagreeing with the other about what a god wants. The disagreement is so strong that some in both groups feel justified in indoctrinating their children that the others that they disagree with deserve a hell.
(Not all members of these religions do this of course, just addressing those that do, like the home I was raised in).â€�
So here God is saying even the Christians who do not associate with God another, will have their reward with God. So again you can see that we arenâ€™t really allowed to say whoâ€™s going to hell or not. As a Muslim, I truly wish that everyone gets guided."Surely the believers and the Jews and the Christians and the Sabians â€“ whichever party from among these truly believes in Allah and the last day and does good deeds â€“ shall have their reward with their Lord and no fear shall come upon them, nor shall they grieve." - The Holy Qur'an [2:163]
Please check my other thread! (https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/ ... hp?t=37080) I only go over a few of the examples that impress me but there are hundreds. I really really urge you just please look for me. I promise itâ€™s not like anything youâ€™ve seen before.â€œThat was my claim and I was comparing that claim to those of other religions that are also impressed with their holy book.
<snipped examples of things that impress you>â€�
Interestingly enough, Allah is just the name of God in Arabic. If you open an Arabic translation of the Bible you will find the word â€˜Allahâ€™ in there many many times. Itâ€™s just these â€˜disagreementsâ€™ are usually misunderstood. If more people knew that the Bible contained the word Allah you wouldnâ€™t see people making fun of the name like it was a separate God. When you burn posters and papers with Allah written on them you are simply just burning the universal word for God in Arabic.â€œAddressed. Perhaps you would acknowledge the things the two groups do disagree on. For example, ask a Christian if Mohammed was a prophet for a God named Allah. Ask a Christian if a Muslim deserves to go to heaven or hell.
These disagreements are what I'm addressing, not generic heaven/hell ideas.â€�
And also I wish more people read about the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), also a man greatly misunderstood. This will probably shock you, but here is a letter dictated by the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as a covenant to the Christian nation from the Muslims, to be held for all of time:
Now how much bloodshed do you think would have been prevented if Muslims and Christians had held to this covenant. This is what the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) taught us, and yet people think of him as the most barbaric man alive â€“ grossly far from reality.â€œThis is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them. Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them.
No compulsion is to be on them. Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries.
No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslimsâ€™ houses. Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil Godâ€™s covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate.
No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight. The Muslims are to fight for them. If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray.
Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants. No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world).â€�
English translation from â€˜Muslim History: 570 â€“ 1950 C.E.â€™ by Dr. A. Zahoor and Dr. Z. Haq, ZMD Corporation. P.O. Box 8231 â€“ Gaithersburg, MD 20898-8231 â€“ Copyright Akram Zahoor 2000. P. 167
You are right, sadly enough. But if the Christian religion itself condemns the crusades, and the Muslim faith itself condemns the loss of innocent life, then how are we to blame the religion for the followersâ€™ actions? The religion, on both sides, clearly condemns violence. Humans are humans at the end of the day, and greed and power is a thirst many are seeking to quench.â€œClearly it doesn't at least for most. See the crusades.
Pope Urban denigrated the Muslims, exaggerating stories of their anti-Christian acts, and promised absolution and remission of sins for all who died in the service of Christ.
Clearly, the disagreement between the two religions is not one of there being a heaven or a hell that can justify violence, but one where parents/pastors/priests/imams/etc... are telling their followers that the others deserve death or hell.â€�
I am glad you brought this up, because this needs to be cleared. You must understand the context of the verses in question. The followers of Muhammad (pbuh) were initially in Mecca, made up of mostly the poor and some slaves as well as some regular people. They were persecuted, attacked and tortured for claiming to be Muslims. God did not tell them to fight back yet. These Muslims were driven out of their homes and so the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) made the migration to Madinah with his followers where he was welcomed with open handsâ€œAnd Allah guideth not those who reject faith.
â€” Sura Al-Baqara, v. 264
In the Quran, the term kafir is first applied to the unbelieving Meccans, and their attempts to refute and revile Muhammad. Later, Muslims are ordered to keep apart from them, defend themselves from their attacks, and finally take the offensive against them.
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Qur%27an_ ... Muslimsâ€�
Then the following verse was revealed:
Basically saying, go get your homes back. Many of the Meccans had been displaced from their homes and left to Medinah with the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). God now gave them the order to expel them from where they expelled you â€“ get back your stuff basically. And it specifically says, do not fight them until they fight you and if they do fight you then fight back and kill them.â€œâ€¦expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill themâ€¦.â€� â€“ The Holy Qurâ€™an [2:191]
This is basically a commandment telling the Muslims to go back get their stuff and do not fight anyone unless they fight you. This is Islam. Not go kill innocent people in the name of God. We even have rules to War (can't cut down trees etc..) and once the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) left a squadron of soldiers to guard a birds nest out of fear that the army would trample on it when marching. A birds nest man.
â€œBecause of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land â€“ it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one â€“ it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.â€� â€“ The Holy Qurâ€™an [5:32]
Definitely a tough one, but Iâ€™m hopefulâ€œAgreed, this is also an issue. One not so easily solved though, unlike parents not telling their children that the 'others' deserve hell. The specific issue I'm referring to.
< more snipped, mainly for having my agreement >â€�
Much love Clownboat!!â€œThank you for your response!â€�