For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
Matthew 5:18
The Prophet Jesus peace be upon him,
came to complete the law of the ancient prophets
Without decrease or increase
The remaining authentic verses in the Old Testament cannot be omitted
Why such variance in viewpoints? To begin with, different theological camps disagree on which books should be included in the Bible. One camp’s apocrypha is another’s scripture. Secondly, even among those books that have been canonized, the many variant source texts lack uniformity. This lack of uniformity is so ubiquitous that The Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible states, “It is safe to say that there is not one sentence in the NT in which the MS [manuscript] tradition is wholly uniform.”[2]
Not one sentence? We can’t trust a single sentence of the Bible? Hard to believe.
Maybe
The fact is that there are over 5700 Greek manuscripts of all or part of the New Testament.[3] Furthermore, “no two of these manuscripts are exactly alike in all their particulars…. And some of these differences are significant.”[4] Factor in roughly ten thousand manuscripts of the Latin Vulgate, add the many other ancient variants (i.e., Syriac, Coptic, Armenian, Georgian, Ethiopic, Nubian, Gothic, Slavonic), and what do we have?
A lot of manuscripts
A lot of manuscripts that fail to correspond in places and not infrequently contradict one another. Scholars estimate the number of manuscript variants in the hundreds of thousands, some estimating as high as 400,000.[5] In Bart D. Ehrman’s now famous words, “Possibly it is easiest to put the matter in comparative terms: there are more differences in our manuscripts than there are words in the New Testament.”[6]
How did this happen?
Poor record keeping. Dishonesty. Incompetence. Doctrinal prejudice. Take your pick.
None of the original manuscripts have survived from the early Christian period.[7]/[8] The most ancient complete manuscripts (Vatican MS. No. 1209 and the Sinaitic Syriac Codex) date from the fourth century, three hundred years after Jesus’ ministry. But the originals? Lost. And the copies of the originals? Also lost. Our most ancient manuscripts, in other words, are copies of the copies of the copies of nobody-knows-just-how-many copies of the originals.
No wonder they differ
In the best of hands, copying errors would be no surprise. However, New Testament manuscripts were not in the best of hands. During the period of Christian origins, scribes were untrained, unreliable, incompetent, and in some cases illiterate.[9] Those who were visually impaired could have made errors with look-alike letters and words, while those who were hearing-impaired may have erred in recording scripture as it was read aloud. Frequently scribes were overworked, and hence inclined to the errors that accompany fatigue.
In the words of Metzger and Ehrman, “Since most, if not all, of them [the scribes] would have been amateurs in the art of copying, a relatively large number of mistakes no doubt crept into their texts as they reproduced them.”[10] Worse yet, some scribes allowed doctrinal prejudice to influence their transmission of scripture.[11] As Ehrman states, “The scribes who copied the texts changed them.”[12] More specifically, “The number of deliberate alterations made in the interest of doctrine is difficult to assess.”[13] And even more specifically, “In the technical parlance of textual criticism—which I retain for its significant ironies—these scribes ‘corrupted’ their texts for theological reasons.”[14]
Errors were introduced in the form of additions, deletions, substitutions and modifications, most commonly of words or lines, but occasionally of entire verses.[15] [16] In fact, “numerous changes and accretions came into the text,”[17] with the result that “all known witnesses of the New Testament are to a greater or lesser extent mixed texts, and even several of the earliest manuscripts are not free from egregious errors.”[18]
In Misquoting Jesus, Ehrman presents persuasive evidence that the story of the woman taken in adultery (John 7:53-8:12) and the last twelve verses of Mark were not in the original gospels, but added by later scribes.[19] Furthermore, these examples “represent just two out of thousands of places in which the manuscripts of the New Testament came to be changed by scribes.”[20]
In fact, entire books of the Bible were forged.[21] This doesn’t mean their content is necessarily wrong, but it certainly doesn’t mean it’s right. So which books were forged? Ephesians, Colossians, 2 Thessalonians, 1 and 2 Timothy, Titus, 1 and 2 Peter, and Jude—a whopping nine of the twenty-seven New Testament books and epistles—are to one degree or another suspect.[22]
Forged books? In the Bible?
Why are we not surprised? After all, even the gospel authors are unknown. In fact, they’re anonymous.[23] Biblical scholars rarely, if ever, ascribe gospel authorship to Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John. As Ehrman tells us, “Most scholars today have abandoned these identifications, and recognize that the books were written by otherwise unknown but relatively well-educated Greek-speaking (and writing) Christians during the second half of the first century.”[24] Graham Stanton affirms, “The gospels, unlike most Graeco-Roman writings, are anonymous. The familiar headings which give the name of an author (‘The Gospel according to …’) were not part of the original manuscripts, for they were added only early in the second century.”[25]
So what, if anything, did Jesus’ disciples have to do with authoring the gospels? Little or nothing, so far as we know. But we have no reason to believe they authored any of the books of the Bible. To begin with, let us remember Mark was a secretary to Peter, and Luke a companion to Paul. The verses of Luke 6:14-16 and Matthew 10:2-4 catalogue the twelve disciples, and although these lists differ over two names, Mark and Luke don’t make either list. So only Matthew and John were true disciples. But all the same, modern scholars pretty much disqualify them as authors anyway.
Why?
Good question. John being the more famous of the two, why should we disqualify him from having authored the Gospel of “John”?
Umm … because he was dead?
Multiple sources acknowledge there is no evidence, other than questionable testimonies of second century authors, to suggest that the disciple John was the author of the Gospel of “John.”[26] [27] Perhaps the most convincing refutation is that the disciple John is believed to have died in or around 98 CE.[28] However, the Gospel of John was written circa 110 CE.[29] So whoever Luke (Paul’s companion), Mark (Peter’s secretary), and John (the unknown, but certainly not the long-dead one) were, we have no reason to believe any of the gospels were authored by Jesus’ disciples
How the Bible was corrupted by Dr. Bart Ehrman YouTube
كيف تم تحريف الانجيل الدكتور بارت ايرمان YouTube
New Testament of the Bible regarding Jesus by Yusha ...
هندوسية تدخل الإٍسلام بعد سؤال مترجم A hindu woman is accepting Islam
مسيحي يعتنق الإسلام في حوار مع عباس ...
Transparency and credibility of factual facts
Moderator: Moderators
Re: Transparency and credibility of factual facts
Post #132someone told me
Thank you for your kind message about Muslims. My wife and I have looked at many different religions over the years. Both of us grew up Catholic and found it very lacking.
We started our search for God and proper worship to include so-called Protestant religions, Self Realization Fellowship, study of some eastern religions, even went to classes in Hebrew & studied Judaism (which we found to be lacking in belief of anything of an afterlife.
By good fortune our youngest daughter married an Egyptian and for the first time, at the age of 70 we were introduced to Islam, the only true religion we had ever known. Simple and very straightforward, leading us on a straight path
زوجان مؤدبان يسألان ش.عثمان بن فاروق عن الإسلام
نصارى يدعون ان إله المسلمين قام بالكذب في القرآن فأعطاهم الشيخ عثمان درساً لن ينسوه
الشيخ عثمان يحرج رجل يدعي انه يعلم الكثير عن الاسلام
Thank you for your kind message about Muslims. My wife and I have looked at many different religions over the years. Both of us grew up Catholic and found it very lacking.
We started our search for God and proper worship to include so-called Protestant religions, Self Realization Fellowship, study of some eastern religions, even went to classes in Hebrew & studied Judaism (which we found to be lacking in belief of anything of an afterlife.
By good fortune our youngest daughter married an Egyptian and for the first time, at the age of 70 we were introduced to Islam, the only true religion we had ever known. Simple and very straightforward, leading us on a straight path
زوجان مؤدبان يسألان ش.عثمان بن فاروق عن الإسلام
نصارى يدعون ان إله المسلمين قام بالكذب في القرآن فأعطاهم الشيخ عثمان درساً لن ينسوه
الشيخ عثمان يحرج رجل يدعي انه يعلم الكثير عن الاسلام
Re: Transparency and credibility of factual facts
Post #133Muhammad ibn (son of) Abdullah ibn (son of) Abdul Mutalib, was born on 12 Rabi 'Awwal in the year 570 C.E. (Christian Era) in Makkah, (today: Saudi Arabia) and he died in 633 C.E. in Yathrib (today: Madinah, Saudi Arabia)
In Arabic the word prophet (nabi) is derived from the word naba which means news. Thus we deduce that a prophet spreads the news of God and His message, they are in a sense God’s ambassadors on earth. Their mission is to convey the message to worship One God. This includes, calling the people to God, explaining the message, bringing glad tidings or warnings and directing the affairs of the nation. All the prophets were anxious to convey God’s message sincerely and completely and this included the last prophet, Muhammad. During his final sermon Prophet Muhammad asked the congregation three times whether he had delivered the message, and called on God to witness their answer, which was a resounding “yes!”.
As well as the essence of their call to One God, another accepted sign of the truth of the prophets is how they live their lives. The accounts of Prophet Muhammad’s life that we have inherited from our righteous predecessors illustrate that Muhammad’s Prophethood was guided by God from the very beginning. Long before, Prophethood Muhammad was being prepared to guide humankind to the straight path and his life experiences stood him in good stead for such a weighty mission. Then at the age of 40 when Prophethood was bestowed upon him, God continued to support and affirm his mission. Any account of Muhammad’s life is filled with examples of his exemplary character; he was merciful, compassionate, truthful, brave, and generous, while striving solely for the rewards of the Hereafter. The way Prophet Muhammad dealt with his companions, acquaintances, enemies, animals and even inanimate objects left no doubt that he was ever mindful of God.
Muhammad’s birth was accompanied by many so called miraculous events and the talk of the extraordinary events no doubt functioned as signs of Prophethood,
Special but not unique circumstances surrounded childhood of Prophet Muhammad and these undoubtedly had a bearing on his character. By the time he was eight years old he had suffered through the death of both his parents and his beloved grandfather Abdul Muttalib. He was left in the care of his uncle and great supporter Abu Talib. Thus even as a young boy he had already suffered great emotional and physical upheaval. Both the many chroniclers of Muhammad’s life and the Quran acknowledge his disrupted life.
Did He not find you (O Muhammad) an orphan and gave you a refuge? (Quran 93:6)
Muhammad’s uncle Abu Talib was poor and struggled to keep his family fed, thus during his adolescence Muhammad worked as a shepherd. From this occupation he learned to embrace solitude and developed characteristics such as patience, cautiousness, care, leadership and an ability to sense danger. Shepherding was an occupation that all the prophets of God we know of had in common. ‘…The companions asked, “Were you a shepherd?” He replied, “There was no prophet who was not a shepherd.”’
In his teens Muhammad sometimes travelled with Abu Talib, accompanying caravans to trade centres. On at least one occasion, he is said to have travelled as far north as Syria. Older merchants recognized his character and nicknamed him Al-Amin, the one you can trust. Even in his youth he was known as truthful and trustworthy. One story that is accepted by most Islamic scholars and historians is the account of one of Prophet Muhammad’s trips to Syria.
The story goes that the monk Bahira foretold the coming Prophethood and counselled Abu Talib to “guard his nephew carefully”. According to biographer Ibn Ishaq, as the caravan in which Prophet Muhammad was travelling approached the edge of town, Bahira could see a cloud that appeared to be shading and following a young man. When the caravan halted under the shadow of some trees, Bahira “looked at the cloud when it over-shadowed the tree, and its branches were bending and drooping over the apostle of God until he was in the shadow beneath it.” After Bahira witnessed this he observed Muhammad closely and asked him many questions concerning a number of Christian prophecies he had read and heard about.
The young Muhammad was distinguished among his people for his modesty, virtuous behaviour and graceful manners, thus it was no surprise for his companions to see him, even as a youth many years before Prophethood, shun superstitious practices and keep away from drinking alcohol, eating meat slaughtered on stone altars or attending idolatrous festivals. By the time he reached adulthood Muhammad was thought of as the most reliable and trustworthy member of the Meccan community. Even those who concerned themselves with petty tribal squabbles acknowledged Muhammad’s honesty and integrity.
Muhammad’s virtues and good moral character was established from a young age, and God continued to support and guide him. When he was 40 years old Muhammad was given the means to change the world, the means to benefit the whole of humanity
The Absolute Truth About Muhammad in the Bible With Arabic Subtitles
الحبيب المصطفى صلى الله عليه وسلم
THE SEAL OF ALL THE PROPHETS MUHAMMAD PBUH - Muhammad Abdul Jabbar
\
The greatest man to ever walk the earth - YouTube
In Arabic the word prophet (nabi) is derived from the word naba which means news. Thus we deduce that a prophet spreads the news of God and His message, they are in a sense God’s ambassadors on earth. Their mission is to convey the message to worship One God. This includes, calling the people to God, explaining the message, bringing glad tidings or warnings and directing the affairs of the nation. All the prophets were anxious to convey God’s message sincerely and completely and this included the last prophet, Muhammad. During his final sermon Prophet Muhammad asked the congregation three times whether he had delivered the message, and called on God to witness their answer, which was a resounding “yes!”.
As well as the essence of their call to One God, another accepted sign of the truth of the prophets is how they live their lives. The accounts of Prophet Muhammad’s life that we have inherited from our righteous predecessors illustrate that Muhammad’s Prophethood was guided by God from the very beginning. Long before, Prophethood Muhammad was being prepared to guide humankind to the straight path and his life experiences stood him in good stead for such a weighty mission. Then at the age of 40 when Prophethood was bestowed upon him, God continued to support and affirm his mission. Any account of Muhammad’s life is filled with examples of his exemplary character; he was merciful, compassionate, truthful, brave, and generous, while striving solely for the rewards of the Hereafter. The way Prophet Muhammad dealt with his companions, acquaintances, enemies, animals and even inanimate objects left no doubt that he was ever mindful of God.
Muhammad’s birth was accompanied by many so called miraculous events and the talk of the extraordinary events no doubt functioned as signs of Prophethood,
Special but not unique circumstances surrounded childhood of Prophet Muhammad and these undoubtedly had a bearing on his character. By the time he was eight years old he had suffered through the death of both his parents and his beloved grandfather Abdul Muttalib. He was left in the care of his uncle and great supporter Abu Talib. Thus even as a young boy he had already suffered great emotional and physical upheaval. Both the many chroniclers of Muhammad’s life and the Quran acknowledge his disrupted life.
Did He not find you (O Muhammad) an orphan and gave you a refuge? (Quran 93:6)
Muhammad’s uncle Abu Talib was poor and struggled to keep his family fed, thus during his adolescence Muhammad worked as a shepherd. From this occupation he learned to embrace solitude and developed characteristics such as patience, cautiousness, care, leadership and an ability to sense danger. Shepherding was an occupation that all the prophets of God we know of had in common. ‘…The companions asked, “Were you a shepherd?” He replied, “There was no prophet who was not a shepherd.”’
In his teens Muhammad sometimes travelled with Abu Talib, accompanying caravans to trade centres. On at least one occasion, he is said to have travelled as far north as Syria. Older merchants recognized his character and nicknamed him Al-Amin, the one you can trust. Even in his youth he was known as truthful and trustworthy. One story that is accepted by most Islamic scholars and historians is the account of one of Prophet Muhammad’s trips to Syria.
The story goes that the monk Bahira foretold the coming Prophethood and counselled Abu Talib to “guard his nephew carefully”. According to biographer Ibn Ishaq, as the caravan in which Prophet Muhammad was travelling approached the edge of town, Bahira could see a cloud that appeared to be shading and following a young man. When the caravan halted under the shadow of some trees, Bahira “looked at the cloud when it over-shadowed the tree, and its branches were bending and drooping over the apostle of God until he was in the shadow beneath it.” After Bahira witnessed this he observed Muhammad closely and asked him many questions concerning a number of Christian prophecies he had read and heard about.
The young Muhammad was distinguished among his people for his modesty, virtuous behaviour and graceful manners, thus it was no surprise for his companions to see him, even as a youth many years before Prophethood, shun superstitious practices and keep away from drinking alcohol, eating meat slaughtered on stone altars or attending idolatrous festivals. By the time he reached adulthood Muhammad was thought of as the most reliable and trustworthy member of the Meccan community. Even those who concerned themselves with petty tribal squabbles acknowledged Muhammad’s honesty and integrity.
Muhammad’s virtues and good moral character was established from a young age, and God continued to support and guide him. When he was 40 years old Muhammad was given the means to change the world, the means to benefit the whole of humanity
The Absolute Truth About Muhammad in the Bible With Arabic Subtitles
الحبيب المصطفى صلى الله عليه وسلم
THE SEAL OF ALL THE PROPHETS MUHAMMAD PBUH - Muhammad Abdul Jabbar
\
The greatest man to ever walk the earth - YouTube
Re: Transparency and credibility of factual facts
Post #134Christians very often criticize Jihad in Islam and do not understand, or pretend not to understand, that war may become inevitable in certain situations, and even necessary. Yet it suffices to look at history to realize that war has always been part of the lot of human beings.
A religion that has no law governing war cannot be a religion of love for the simple reason that in conflict situations its followers risk overindulging. The History of Christianity is a fine example of this case. Indeed, having no law governing war, Christianity was guilty of the Crusades, Colonization, Slavery, Inquisition, exterminations of American Indians and Australian Aborigines. , the apartheid situation in
South Africa, etc. Would a religion of love, as argued by Christian polemicists, give so much rotten fruit?
These polemicists absolutely do not understand the notion of abandoning oneself to fight in the way of God and to protect the weak as the Holy Quran says:
And what is it with you? You do not fight in the cause of Allah and for oppressed men, women, and children who cry out, “Our Lord! Deliver us from this land of oppressors! Appoint for us a saviour; appoint for us a helper—all by Your grace.”
Holy Quran, Sura an-Nisâ (Women) 4, 75
It is therefore from the perspective of fighting for God and for the cause of the weak that Islam conceives of war. It is with realism that we read in the book of Islamic jurisprudence, Fiqh As-Sunna:
War is an ineluctable social phenomenon which touches all Nations and all times, or nearly so; the earlier revealed Laws recognize this fact: we find in the Torah which the Jews meditate on the legal recognition of the concept of war in its most abrupt form. As for international law, it defines the situations in which war becomes legitimate, codifying for it laws and customs that mitigate its effects, in addition to the fact that these laws have never been applied. "
Source: Sayyid Sabiq, Fiqh As-Sunna, ENNOUR editions, Volume 3, p.25
If Islam governed the war, it was quite simply to limit its misdeeds. Would we be foolish enough to decry the Geneva Conventions and claim that they legitimize war? Clearly not. In Islam, God does not like war and even Christian historian Karen Armstrong understood this when she said:
[...] The word Islam comes from the same Arabic root as the word peace and the Koran condemns war as an abnormal event contrary to the will of God: "Whenever they kindle the fire of war, Allah puts it out. And they strive to spread corruption in the land. And Allah does not like corruptors. " (The Quran, sura al-Ma'ida, verse 64)
Islam does not justify aggressive war or extermination, as the Torah does in the first five books of the Bible. A more realistic religion than Christianity, Islam declares that war is inevitable and sometimes a positive obligation to end oppression and suffering. The Qur'an teaches that war should be limited and conducted in the most humane way possible. Mohammed had to fight not only the inhabitants of Mecca but also the Jewish tribes in the region and the Christian tribes in
Syria who allied with the Jews were planning an attack against him. Yet this did not make Mohammed denounce the people of the book.
We will conclude this short study with the glorification of the warriors by the sanctified champion of Christians, Paul of Tarsus, who affirms in the book attributed to him (Hebrews 11: 32-34): " And what more shall I say? I do not have time to tell about Gideon, Barak, Samson and Jephthah, about David and Samuel and the prophets, 33 who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, and gained what was promised; who shut the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the fury of the flames, and escaped the edge of the sword; whose weakness was turned to strength; and who became powerful in battle and routed foreign armies.
It is therefore by Faith, and for the fulfillment of the divine promises, that these prophets-mujahedin accomplished all these exploits and destroyed their enemies, although they often committed barbarities, and killed the infants who do not 'had not made any mistakes (which is forbidden in Islam by the way).
Christians should spend more time in front of their Bibles and studying it instead of following preconceptions that ultimately backfire
أحمد ديدات - أبناء الرب وأبناء إبليس فى الكتاب المقدس - هام
الإغتصاب المقدّس --- Holy rape
الجنة ثلاث درجات! منصور وحمزة في حوار مع مورموني
A religion that has no law governing war cannot be a religion of love for the simple reason that in conflict situations its followers risk overindulging. The History of Christianity is a fine example of this case. Indeed, having no law governing war, Christianity was guilty of the Crusades, Colonization, Slavery, Inquisition, exterminations of American Indians and Australian Aborigines. , the apartheid situation in
South Africa, etc. Would a religion of love, as argued by Christian polemicists, give so much rotten fruit?
These polemicists absolutely do not understand the notion of abandoning oneself to fight in the way of God and to protect the weak as the Holy Quran says:
And what is it with you? You do not fight in the cause of Allah and for oppressed men, women, and children who cry out, “Our Lord! Deliver us from this land of oppressors! Appoint for us a saviour; appoint for us a helper—all by Your grace.”
Holy Quran, Sura an-Nisâ (Women) 4, 75
It is therefore from the perspective of fighting for God and for the cause of the weak that Islam conceives of war. It is with realism that we read in the book of Islamic jurisprudence, Fiqh As-Sunna:
War is an ineluctable social phenomenon which touches all Nations and all times, or nearly so; the earlier revealed Laws recognize this fact: we find in the Torah which the Jews meditate on the legal recognition of the concept of war in its most abrupt form. As for international law, it defines the situations in which war becomes legitimate, codifying for it laws and customs that mitigate its effects, in addition to the fact that these laws have never been applied. "
Source: Sayyid Sabiq, Fiqh As-Sunna, ENNOUR editions, Volume 3, p.25
If Islam governed the war, it was quite simply to limit its misdeeds. Would we be foolish enough to decry the Geneva Conventions and claim that they legitimize war? Clearly not. In Islam, God does not like war and even Christian historian Karen Armstrong understood this when she said:
[...] The word Islam comes from the same Arabic root as the word peace and the Koran condemns war as an abnormal event contrary to the will of God: "Whenever they kindle the fire of war, Allah puts it out. And they strive to spread corruption in the land. And Allah does not like corruptors. " (The Quran, sura al-Ma'ida, verse 64)
Islam does not justify aggressive war or extermination, as the Torah does in the first five books of the Bible. A more realistic religion than Christianity, Islam declares that war is inevitable and sometimes a positive obligation to end oppression and suffering. The Qur'an teaches that war should be limited and conducted in the most humane way possible. Mohammed had to fight not only the inhabitants of Mecca but also the Jewish tribes in the region and the Christian tribes in
Syria who allied with the Jews were planning an attack against him. Yet this did not make Mohammed denounce the people of the book.
We will conclude this short study with the glorification of the warriors by the sanctified champion of Christians, Paul of Tarsus, who affirms in the book attributed to him (Hebrews 11: 32-34): " And what more shall I say? I do not have time to tell about Gideon, Barak, Samson and Jephthah, about David and Samuel and the prophets, 33 who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, and gained what was promised; who shut the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the fury of the flames, and escaped the edge of the sword; whose weakness was turned to strength; and who became powerful in battle and routed foreign armies.
It is therefore by Faith, and for the fulfillment of the divine promises, that these prophets-mujahedin accomplished all these exploits and destroyed their enemies, although they often committed barbarities, and killed the infants who do not 'had not made any mistakes (which is forbidden in Islam by the way).
Christians should spend more time in front of their Bibles and studying it instead of following preconceptions that ultimately backfire
أحمد ديدات - أبناء الرب وأبناء إبليس فى الكتاب المقدس - هام
الإغتصاب المقدّس --- Holy rape
الجنة ثلاث درجات! منصور وحمزة في حوار مع مورموني
Re: Transparency and credibility of factual facts
Post #136Submission to Allah (the Father) alone as all the prophets did Adam, Jesus, Moses, Muhammad and others, peace be upon them
He (peace be upon him) submitted to this position of a slave of Allah, being submissively obedient to Him concerning all that He orders and prohibits, although the Prophet (peace be upon him) was a Messenger of Allah to all the world.
Muslims love and respect all the prophets, especially the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, and this does not mean that they worship them, and this is the greatest evidence of how the Prophet Muhammad treated his companions and all people as brothers and friends
1-
The humility of the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) with his Companions
There are many examples of the Messenger of Allah’s humility with his Companions, for example: he, when he was leading the army, used to take the advice of his Companions, as he did in the battle of the ditch when he implemented Selman’s idea, who was one of the Muslim soldiers, to dig a ditch. In fact, he (peace be upon him) helped his Companions in carrying soil on the day of the battle to the extent that his stomach was covered with dust!!
Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) prohibited his Companions from standing up for him, and this was only because he was very humble. One-time Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) met his Companions when he was leaning on a stick, and they stood up for him. He (peace be upon him) did not like such an act from them, and told them,
Do not stand up [for the people] as the foreigners stand up to venerate each other related by Ahmed.
This is opposite to what some proud people do because of their love for people to venerate them. Such people become annoyed with others if they do not stand up for them.
Another example of the Messenger of Allah’s humility with his Companions is that he used to sit with them just like any one of them, that is, he did not sit with them in a way that differentiated him from others, to the extent that if a stranger, who did not know him, entered the gathering where the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) was sitting, he (the stranger) was unable to distinguish him from the others. The stranger would ask,
Which one of you is Muhammed?!” Although the Prophet (peace be upon him) was sitting among them (his Companions), leaning on his arms related by Al-Bukhari.
The Prophet’s Message was not a worldly message by which he sought kingship or power. It was a prophetic Message for the next life, whose purpose, at all times, was based on gaining the pleasure of Allah, and whose aim was to inform the people about the Message of Islam.
The greatest example of the Prophet’s humility was clear when his Companions praised him and talked to him as though he was a master; he (peace be upon him) used to often say to them, “I am only a slave and Messenger of Allah.” And when he (peace be upon him) heard some of his Companions call him by saying, “Oh our master! Oh son of our master! Oh the best of us! Oh the son of the best of us!” He (peace be upon him) prohibited them from saying these words by saying,
I am Muhammad ibn Abdullah, a slave of Allah and His Messenger. By Allah, I do not like you to raise me above my true position which Allah set for me related by Ahmed.
2-
The Humility of the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) with his family
He (peace be upon him) used to participate in serving his family in the house; he did not think such work was above him. Concerning this, a man asked Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her),
related by Ahmed
Yes… Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) was very noble; he did not, despite his high level and position, disdain to mend his sandals and sew his thobe. In fact, he helped his family in the house and looked after his own belongings without feeling proud and feeling that he was above such work.
3-
His humility as the victor
The day the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) liberated Mecca, the Muslim army entered Mecca as victors with little resistance. They (the people of Mecca) turned their attention towards the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him), and the hearts of the polytheists, who had harmed the Messenger of Allah and his Companions, reached their throats out of their extreme fear of what the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) may do with them.
In such a situation, the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) entered Mecca. He was riding a camel, reading Surah Al-Fath, with his back bent and his head lowered until the edge of his beard nearly touched his ride, as a show of humility to Allah as well as thanks to Him for honouring him (peace be upon him) with a great triumph.
On that day, a man came to talk to the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him). The man thought that he was standing in front of one of the victorious kings. This was the situation in which he found himself: in awe of the prestigious position of the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him). All that the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) did was to calm his fears and say the well-known saying,
Relax! I am not a king. I am just the son of a woman from the tribe of Quraish who used to eat dried meat related by Ibn Majah.
The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) made clear to the man that he was not a king, and he told him what his mother used to eat to make clear that he was one of them (Quraish), not a proud one to be scared of. What type of great humility did the heart of the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) feel?! He (peace be upon him) used to lower his wings (to care) for the elderly and the young, his family and his Companions, his relatives and non-relatives alike, even the male and female slaves. All of these, in his eyes, were the same; he did not prefer one over the other except according to their good deeds. His biography abounds with many incidents and proofs that testify to his humility with the people, no matter what their status and situation may have been.
Humility penetrated deeply into the soul of Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him)
Forgiveness, humility, compassion and tenderness were established deeply in the soul of the Prophet (peace be upon him), which instilled the love of him (peace be upon him) in the hearts of all those around him. It has been reported that he (peace be upon him) never refused the invitation from anyone no matter how poor or lowly the person may have been, and he never refused any gift that was given to him no matter how small it was. Moreover, if he sat with anyone, he did not raise his knees towards him in a show of pride and prejudice…”
William Muir
Scottish orientalist
read more
https://www.withprophet.com/en/the-humi ... e-upon-him
فتاة عربية تُحرج حبيبها الكاثوليكي بعد أن أبدت إعجابها بالإسلام فغضب من الشيخ عثمان
النصرانية أو الإسلام | مناظرة بين الشيخ عثمان ونصرانيين
حوار هادي مع زوجين أمريكيين + ثلاثة يعتنقون الإسلام
التحدي: أثبت لنا أن الكتاب المقدس فيه تناقضات | زوجان نصرانيان في حوار مع ش.عثمان
He (peace be upon him) submitted to this position of a slave of Allah, being submissively obedient to Him concerning all that He orders and prohibits, although the Prophet (peace be upon him) was a Messenger of Allah to all the world.
Muslims love and respect all the prophets, especially the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, and this does not mean that they worship them, and this is the greatest evidence of how the Prophet Muhammad treated his companions and all people as brothers and friends
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The humility of the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) with his Companions
There are many examples of the Messenger of Allah’s humility with his Companions, for example: he, when he was leading the army, used to take the advice of his Companions, as he did in the battle of the ditch when he implemented Selman’s idea, who was one of the Muslim soldiers, to dig a ditch. In fact, he (peace be upon him) helped his Companions in carrying soil on the day of the battle to the extent that his stomach was covered with dust!!
Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) prohibited his Companions from standing up for him, and this was only because he was very humble. One-time Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) met his Companions when he was leaning on a stick, and they stood up for him. He (peace be upon him) did not like such an act from them, and told them,
Do not stand up [for the people] as the foreigners stand up to venerate each other related by Ahmed.
This is opposite to what some proud people do because of their love for people to venerate them. Such people become annoyed with others if they do not stand up for them.
Another example of the Messenger of Allah’s humility with his Companions is that he used to sit with them just like any one of them, that is, he did not sit with them in a way that differentiated him from others, to the extent that if a stranger, who did not know him, entered the gathering where the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) was sitting, he (the stranger) was unable to distinguish him from the others. The stranger would ask,
Which one of you is Muhammed?!” Although the Prophet (peace be upon him) was sitting among them (his Companions), leaning on his arms related by Al-Bukhari.
The Prophet’s Message was not a worldly message by which he sought kingship or power. It was a prophetic Message for the next life, whose purpose, at all times, was based on gaining the pleasure of Allah, and whose aim was to inform the people about the Message of Islam.
The greatest example of the Prophet’s humility was clear when his Companions praised him and talked to him as though he was a master; he (peace be upon him) used to often say to them, “I am only a slave and Messenger of Allah.” And when he (peace be upon him) heard some of his Companions call him by saying, “Oh our master! Oh son of our master! Oh the best of us! Oh the son of the best of us!” He (peace be upon him) prohibited them from saying these words by saying,
I am Muhammad ibn Abdullah, a slave of Allah and His Messenger. By Allah, I do not like you to raise me above my true position which Allah set for me related by Ahmed.
2-
The Humility of the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) with his family
He (peace be upon him) used to participate in serving his family in the house; he did not think such work was above him. Concerning this, a man asked Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her),
related by Ahmed
Yes… Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) was very noble; he did not, despite his high level and position, disdain to mend his sandals and sew his thobe. In fact, he helped his family in the house and looked after his own belongings without feeling proud and feeling that he was above such work.
3-
His humility as the victor
The day the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) liberated Mecca, the Muslim army entered Mecca as victors with little resistance. They (the people of Mecca) turned their attention towards the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him), and the hearts of the polytheists, who had harmed the Messenger of Allah and his Companions, reached their throats out of their extreme fear of what the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) may do with them.
In such a situation, the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) entered Mecca. He was riding a camel, reading Surah Al-Fath, with his back bent and his head lowered until the edge of his beard nearly touched his ride, as a show of humility to Allah as well as thanks to Him for honouring him (peace be upon him) with a great triumph.
On that day, a man came to talk to the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him). The man thought that he was standing in front of one of the victorious kings. This was the situation in which he found himself: in awe of the prestigious position of the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him). All that the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) did was to calm his fears and say the well-known saying,
Relax! I am not a king. I am just the son of a woman from the tribe of Quraish who used to eat dried meat related by Ibn Majah.
The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) made clear to the man that he was not a king, and he told him what his mother used to eat to make clear that he was one of them (Quraish), not a proud one to be scared of. What type of great humility did the heart of the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) feel?! He (peace be upon him) used to lower his wings (to care) for the elderly and the young, his family and his Companions, his relatives and non-relatives alike, even the male and female slaves. All of these, in his eyes, were the same; he did not prefer one over the other except according to their good deeds. His biography abounds with many incidents and proofs that testify to his humility with the people, no matter what their status and situation may have been.
Humility penetrated deeply into the soul of Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him)
Forgiveness, humility, compassion and tenderness were established deeply in the soul of the Prophet (peace be upon him), which instilled the love of him (peace be upon him) in the hearts of all those around him. It has been reported that he (peace be upon him) never refused the invitation from anyone no matter how poor or lowly the person may have been, and he never refused any gift that was given to him no matter how small it was. Moreover, if he sat with anyone, he did not raise his knees towards him in a show of pride and prejudice…”
William Muir
Scottish orientalist
read more
https://www.withprophet.com/en/the-humi ... e-upon-him
فتاة عربية تُحرج حبيبها الكاثوليكي بعد أن أبدت إعجابها بالإسلام فغضب من الشيخ عثمان
النصرانية أو الإسلام | مناظرة بين الشيخ عثمان ونصرانيين
حوار هادي مع زوجين أمريكيين + ثلاثة يعتنقون الإسلام
التحدي: أثبت لنا أن الكتاب المقدس فيه تناقضات | زوجان نصرانيان في حوار مع ش.عثمان
Re: Transparency and credibility of factual facts
Post #137two bible verses in particular sum up the position of women:
"I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee." By this third chapter of Genesis, woman lost her rights, her standing—even her identity, and motherhood became a God-inflicted curse degrading her status in the world.
In the New Testament, the bible decrees:
"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." 1 Tim. 2:11-14
One bible verse alone, "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" (Exodus 22:18) is responsible for the death of tens of thousands, if not millions, of women. Do women and those who care about them need further evidence of the great harm of Christianity, predicated as it has been on these and similar teachings about women?
Church writer Tertullian said "each of you women is an Eve . . . You are the gate of Hell, you are the temptress of the forbidden tree; you are the first deserter of the divine law."
Martin Luther decreed: "If a woman grows weary and at last dies from childbearing, it matters not. Let her die from bearing, she is there to do it."
Christian writings therefore indeed regard the intelligence of women as inferior to that of men. According to the Bible women, sources of evil and corruption from "original sin" should remain silent in churches and they should not be given the opportunity to teach or educate a male audience.
Thus, we saw that the law of the levirate was an injustice towards the woman, because it obliges her to marry the brother of the husband if he dies without leaving children, and in default of the brother, it is the nearest relative and so on. As long as the husband has not had children, his wife will be required to marry a man of her family in order to have children, so that the line of the deceased is not erased.
Thus, according to the Bible adultery is one who has slept with a married woman, which means that the man is not punished because he cheated on his wife if he has one, but simply because he slept with his neighbor's wife. Conversely, according to Islam adultery is any person, man or woman, who cheats on his spouse.
The bible establishes woman's inferior status, her "uncleanliness," her transgressions, and God-ordained master/servant relationship to man. Biblical women are possessions: fathers own them, sell them into bondage, even sacrifice them. The bible sanctions rape during wartime and in other contexts. Wives are subject to Mosaic-law sanctioned "bedchecks" as brides, and male jealousy fits and no-notice divorce as wives.
The most typical biblical labels of women are "harlot" and "whore." They are described as having evil, even satanic powers of allurement. Contempt for women's bodies and reproductive capacity is a bedrock of the bible. The few role models offered are stereotyped, conventional and inadequate, with bible heroines admired for obedience and battle spirit. Jesus scorns his own mother, refusing to bless her, and issues dire warnings about the fate of pregnant and nursing women..
احمد ديدات - علماء الغرب و القرآن
نادر جداً - محمد على كلاي و درس في الصبر و الإحتساب
أحمد ديدات يفضح كذب أنيس شوروش
هل كتاب الأناجيل شهود عيان لعيسى أم هذه أقاويل مبالغ فيها؟
"I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee." By this third chapter of Genesis, woman lost her rights, her standing—even her identity, and motherhood became a God-inflicted curse degrading her status in the world.
In the New Testament, the bible decrees:
"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." 1 Tim. 2:11-14
One bible verse alone, "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" (Exodus 22:18) is responsible for the death of tens of thousands, if not millions, of women. Do women and those who care about them need further evidence of the great harm of Christianity, predicated as it has been on these and similar teachings about women?
Church writer Tertullian said "each of you women is an Eve . . . You are the gate of Hell, you are the temptress of the forbidden tree; you are the first deserter of the divine law."
Martin Luther decreed: "If a woman grows weary and at last dies from childbearing, it matters not. Let her die from bearing, she is there to do it."
Christian writings therefore indeed regard the intelligence of women as inferior to that of men. According to the Bible women, sources of evil and corruption from "original sin" should remain silent in churches and they should not be given the opportunity to teach or educate a male audience.
Thus, we saw that the law of the levirate was an injustice towards the woman, because it obliges her to marry the brother of the husband if he dies without leaving children, and in default of the brother, it is the nearest relative and so on. As long as the husband has not had children, his wife will be required to marry a man of her family in order to have children, so that the line of the deceased is not erased.
Thus, according to the Bible adultery is one who has slept with a married woman, which means that the man is not punished because he cheated on his wife if he has one, but simply because he slept with his neighbor's wife. Conversely, according to Islam adultery is any person, man or woman, who cheats on his spouse.
The bible establishes woman's inferior status, her "uncleanliness," her transgressions, and God-ordained master/servant relationship to man. Biblical women are possessions: fathers own them, sell them into bondage, even sacrifice them. The bible sanctions rape during wartime and in other contexts. Wives are subject to Mosaic-law sanctioned "bedchecks" as brides, and male jealousy fits and no-notice divorce as wives.
The most typical biblical labels of women are "harlot" and "whore." They are described as having evil, even satanic powers of allurement. Contempt for women's bodies and reproductive capacity is a bedrock of the bible. The few role models offered are stereotyped, conventional and inadequate, with bible heroines admired for obedience and battle spirit. Jesus scorns his own mother, refusing to bless her, and issues dire warnings about the fate of pregnant and nursing women..
احمد ديدات - علماء الغرب و القرآن
نادر جداً - محمد على كلاي و درس في الصبر و الإحتساب
أحمد ديدات يفضح كذب أنيس شوروش
هل كتاب الأناجيل شهود عيان لعيسى أم هذه أقاويل مبالغ فيها؟
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William
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Re: Transparency and credibility of factual facts
Post #138This I interpret to mean that those to whom this is applicable had a prior existence before their human one and that they agreed to have the human experience and fulfil a particular role, even that they also knew that entering the human experience would have them completely forget their prior existence.Before I formed you in the womb I knew[a] you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.
An immaterial nothing creating a material something is as logically sound as square circles and married bachelors.
Unjustified Fact Claim(UFC) example - belief (of any sort) based on personal subjective experience. (Belief-based belief)
Justified Fact Claim(JFC) Example, The Earth is spherical in shape. (Knowledge-based belief)
Irrefutable Fact Claim (IFC) Example Humans in general experience some level of self-awareness. (Knowledge-based knowledge)
Re: Transparency and credibility of factual facts
Post #139Jesus was not eternal from eternity
The argument is made that because Jesus was “before” Abraham, There is no question that Jesus figuratively “existed” in Abraham’s time. However, he did not actually physically exist as a person; rather he “existed” in the plan of God. A careful reading of the context of the verse shows that Jesus was speaking of “existing” in God’s foreknowledge.
Here is another example where a Prophet existed in God’s foreknowledge. even before he was born, yet he was not at all Divine,
Jeremiah 1:5 –“Before I formed you in the womb I knew[a] you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”
Prophet Muhammad (sallallaahu alayhi wasallam) said: “I was a Prophet when Adam was between water and clay”
Yet, no Muslim claims that the Prophet was god .
Attaching ‘Divinity’ to such statements shall be absurd and meaningless.
Because the Gospels are distorted, and Jesus did not say everything that John mentioned
The text does not specify the period that Jesus, peace be upon him, is supposed to have lived before Abraham, and there is no evidence that it is eternal. Therefore, there is never a faithful way to make this passage in John 8:58 proves the divinity of Christ
There is no word for "am" in Hebrew or Arabic. And pronouns are not proper nouns.
Basic grammer.
Q&A Jesus:Before Abraham Was, I Am (John 8:58) - Sheikh
The argument is made that because Jesus was “before” Abraham, There is no question that Jesus figuratively “existed” in Abraham’s time. However, he did not actually physically exist as a person; rather he “existed” in the plan of God. A careful reading of the context of the verse shows that Jesus was speaking of “existing” in God’s foreknowledge.
Here is another example where a Prophet existed in God’s foreknowledge. even before he was born, yet he was not at all Divine,
Jeremiah 1:5 –“Before I formed you in the womb I knew[a] you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”
Prophet Muhammad (sallallaahu alayhi wasallam) said: “I was a Prophet when Adam was between water and clay”
Yet, no Muslim claims that the Prophet was god .
Attaching ‘Divinity’ to such statements shall be absurd and meaningless.
Because the Gospels are distorted, and Jesus did not say everything that John mentioned
The text does not specify the period that Jesus, peace be upon him, is supposed to have lived before Abraham, and there is no evidence that it is eternal. Therefore, there is never a faithful way to make this passage in John 8:58 proves the divinity of Christ
There is no word for "am" in Hebrew or Arabic. And pronouns are not proper nouns.
Basic grammer.
Q&A Jesus:Before Abraham Was, I Am (John 8:58) - Sheikh
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William
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Re: Transparency and credibility of factual facts
Post #140[Replying to somo in post #139]
What makes you (peace and blessings be upon you) think that just because something exists as a potential in God, it does not also exist as a reality? Jesus (peace and blessings be upon him) is not portrayed as merely a figment of God's imagination.
What do you (peace and blessings be upon you) make of the story where Jesus (peace and blessings be upon him) meets with Moses (peace and blessings be upon him) and Elijah (peace and blessings be upon him)?
I (peace and blessings be upon me) interpret these verses and concepts through a different lens. It can be understood that we (peace and blessings be upon us), as conscious entities, existed before entering the human experience. We (peace and blessings be upon us) were part of God’s reality and voluntarily took on the human experience, each with specific roles or missions. In doing so, we (peace and blessings be upon us) entered a realm where we (peace and blessings be upon us) would temporarily forget our (peace and blessings be upon us) prior existence, as part of the divine plan.
This indicates that, while our (peace and blessings be upon us) existence before becoming human wasn’t physical, it was still real in a spiritual sense. We (peace and blessings be upon us) agreed to undertake the human journey, knowing that it would involve a temporal veil of forgetfulness over our (peace and blessings be upon us) prior state.
When encountering statements like Jeremiah 1:5 or the words of Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) about pre-existence, these can be seen as affirmations that there is a history with God before birth into this world. This understanding extends not only to prophets but to all in a broader sense. Jesus' (peace and blessings be upon him) statement about being "before Abraham" can similarly be understood as reflecting this prior existence in God’s reality, beyond being simply part of His divine plan.
Conclusion:
Both Islamic and Christian interpretations offer human-only perspectives on pre-existence, divine foreknowledge, and the role of prophets. From an Islamic perspective, pre-existence refers to God’s knowledge and plan, not literal eternal existence. Jesus (peace and blessings be upon him), like other prophets, was part of God’s divine plan, but not divine himself.
From my (peace and blessings be upon me) perspective, we (peace and blessings be upon us) all existed before voluntarily experiencing human life, with the understanding that this experience would involve temporarily forgetting our (peace and blessings be upon us) spiritual origins. This interpretation opens the door to viewing pre-existence as more than just a figment of God's imagination—it represents an aspect of spiritual reality that we (peace and blessings be upon us) chose to engage with.
What makes you (peace and blessings be upon you) think that just because something exists as a potential in God, it does not also exist as a reality? Jesus (peace and blessings be upon him) is not portrayed as merely a figment of God's imagination.
What do you (peace and blessings be upon you) make of the story where Jesus (peace and blessings be upon him) meets with Moses (peace and blessings be upon him) and Elijah (peace and blessings be upon him)?
I (peace and blessings be upon me) interpret these verses and concepts through a different lens. It can be understood that we (peace and blessings be upon us), as conscious entities, existed before entering the human experience. We (peace and blessings be upon us) were part of God’s reality and voluntarily took on the human experience, each with specific roles or missions. In doing so, we (peace and blessings be upon us) entered a realm where we (peace and blessings be upon us) would temporarily forget our (peace and blessings be upon us) prior existence, as part of the divine plan.
This indicates that, while our (peace and blessings be upon us) existence before becoming human wasn’t physical, it was still real in a spiritual sense. We (peace and blessings be upon us) agreed to undertake the human journey, knowing that it would involve a temporal veil of forgetfulness over our (peace and blessings be upon us) prior state.
When encountering statements like Jeremiah 1:5 or the words of Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) about pre-existence, these can be seen as affirmations that there is a history with God before birth into this world. This understanding extends not only to prophets but to all in a broader sense. Jesus' (peace and blessings be upon him) statement about being "before Abraham" can similarly be understood as reflecting this prior existence in God’s reality, beyond being simply part of His divine plan.
Conclusion:
Both Islamic and Christian interpretations offer human-only perspectives on pre-existence, divine foreknowledge, and the role of prophets. From an Islamic perspective, pre-existence refers to God’s knowledge and plan, not literal eternal existence. Jesus (peace and blessings be upon him), like other prophets, was part of God’s divine plan, but not divine himself.
From my (peace and blessings be upon me) perspective, we (peace and blessings be upon us) all existed before voluntarily experiencing human life, with the understanding that this experience would involve temporarily forgetting our (peace and blessings be upon us) spiritual origins. This interpretation opens the door to viewing pre-existence as more than just a figment of God's imagination—it represents an aspect of spiritual reality that we (peace and blessings be upon us) chose to engage with.
An immaterial nothing creating a material something is as logically sound as square circles and married bachelors.
Unjustified Fact Claim(UFC) example - belief (of any sort) based on personal subjective experience. (Belief-based belief)
Justified Fact Claim(JFC) Example, The Earth is spherical in shape. (Knowledge-based belief)
Irrefutable Fact Claim (IFC) Example Humans in general experience some level of self-awareness. (Knowledge-based knowledge)
