Allah Vs. the Christian God

[Kuan]

A lot of Christians don't realize that Muslims worship the same god as they do.

Question for Debate: Why? Is there a Islamic belief that causes this?

[Divine Insight]

Hi DI,

Your position is absurd.

It is equivalent to saying all swans are white, this is a swan so it must be white.

Or, worse, this dog is nice, all animals must be nice therefore this lion is nice.

It is intellectual suicide to group and categorise unnecessarily and when done the best reason is fir simplicity.

The reasoning behind your argument is laziness.

Wootah

You are totally wrong Wootah, and you clearly either didn't understand my position, or didn't bother to think about it deeply.

I pointed out the fact that all of the Abrahamic religions stem from the very same God myths. Therefore they are necessarily all myths about the SAME GOD.

Once you understand this basic truth you should be able to see why your objection do not apply.

You say, "Or, worse, this dog is nice, all animals must be nice therefore this lion is nice."

That's not what I'm saying at all. That's a complete misunderstanding on your part.

I'm saying that all of these religions are referring to the SAME DOG (or in this case the SAME GOD), and therefore it's crystal clear that they are all nothing more than erroneous superstitions.

In fact, both Islam and Christians proclaim that their version of this SAME GOD has protected "His Word" which is their individual doctrines.

The problem with this is that, as others have already pointed out, the doctrines contradict each other and made totally different claims about what this single God is supposedly trying to say. So they can't both be true.

The second problem with either one of these doctrines is the mere fact that the other doctrine even exists. In other words if the fictitious God of either of these main fragments of the original myths were true and there was some God who was "Protecting His Word" from corruption, then that protection would have necessarily had to include not allowing false doctrines that claim to be about him to exist.

Yet they clearly do exist. If Islam is true then Christianity must necessarily be false, and vice verse.

Therefore neither of these doctrines can be the "protected Word" of this God.

So my position is sound, and not at all as you have erroneously portrayed it to be.

For your position to have any merit at all, these would need to be totally independent religions that refer to totally different imagined deities. But they aren't. They are both fragmented distortions of a single God myth.

Therefore there cannot be any single God associated with these myths who is somehow miraculously "protecting" His Word, because there clearly is no protection at all. The myths have been violated and corrupted. Not only between Islam and Christianity, but even WITHIN those separate distortions of these myth.

Islam has fallen into many difference sects with the Shias and Sunnies being the main two. And Christianity has also fallen into two main opposing sects of Catholicism and Protestantism. Again, in total disagreement with each other on many major points.

And then of course Protestantism itself has continued to degrade into countless opposing denominations that can hardly agree on anything.

So which version of these highly convoluted and disagreeing sects is the "Protected Word" of this original God of Abraham?

Clearly there does not exist any God that is protecting these myths from corruption.

So your objections don't even apply to my position because I'm not talking about "many dogs", I'm talking about a "single dog". Or single God in this case.

These religions have shot themselves in their own foot by trying to proclaim that this single God supports and protects all these totally different opposing views.

Clearly that cannot be true, and since there does not exist a SINGLE protected version, we can rest assured that NONE of them are true.

They are all based on the very same erroneous claim that some supposed God is protecting "His Word" when it's crystal clear that this isn't the case.

Therefore it's SAFE to conclude that NONE of these religions are the protected word of any God.

If some God was "protecting" his word, he wouldn't have allowed all these different opposing sects and doctrines to have been created in the first place.

So the proof that no such God exists is right there in the myriad of disagreeing sects and denominations. There has been no protection of anything by any God.

So all these different versions of this SAME God are necessarily all false.

[Muzaffar]

[Replying to post 61 by Divine Insight]

Hi brothers,
I would like to clear some of your points concerning what you have said;

In fact, both Islam and Christians proclaim that their version of this SAME GOD has protected "His Word" which is their individual doctrines.

The claim made by muslim is supported by the Holy Qur'an:
“Surely it is We who have sent down the revelation (the Qur’an) and We surely are its Guardian.� (Qur'an 15:9)
"Falsehood cannot come at it from before it or from behind it. (It is) a revelation from the Wise, the Owner of Praise." (Qur'an 41:42)

And I would be happy if any christian could point out where does the bible testify that the bible will be kept from tampering of that:
"I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll." (Revelation 22:18-19)

The problem with this is that, as others have already pointed out, the doctrines contradict each other and made totally different claims about what this single God is supposedly trying to say. So they can't both be true.

First we need to know where does they contradict each other:
1)Some say original sin which is contradicted by the bible itself:
The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them. (Ezekiel 18:20)
Sin is not inherited.
2)Divinity of Christ:
By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me. (John 5:30)
God can do anything.

If there are more point about which you want to talk just post it in a reply.

The second problem with either one of these doctrines is the mere fact that the other doctrine even exists. In other words if the fictitious God of either of these main fragments of the original myths were true and there was some God who was "Protecting His Word" from corruption, then that protection would have necessarily had to include not allowing false doctrines that claim to be about him to exist.

From the old scripture of the bible in existence (around 10,000 "copies") no 2 are identical.
The Qur'an used are identical except for vowel (which are different according to dialect).

Now concerning false doctrine, the bible contains a warning against that:
As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?
Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Messiah,' and will deceive many. (Matthew 24:4-6)

Yet they clearly do exist. If Islam is true then Christianity must necessarily be false, and vice verse.

To know which one is truth then we must analyze their roots:
Islam means submission to God almighty, and this name was given by himself:
"…This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion..." (Qur'an 5:3)
God gave the name Islam.

Christianity:
"and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch." (Acts 11:26)
People called them Christians.

Therefore neither of these doctrines can be the "protected Word" of this God.

The I can conclude that your logic is bad.
If you tell me that at least one is wrong then everyone could agree.

So my position is sound, and not at all as you have erroneously portrayed it to be.
For your position to have any merit at all, these would need to be totally independent religions that refer to totally different imagined deities. But they aren't. They are both fragmented distortions of a single God myth.

I agree that myth has done it's part of the work but in the originals of the teachings of the prophets there is no difference at all:
Moses said: "Shamma Israelu adonai Elohim adonai Ikhrad." (Deuteronomy 6:4) (Hear! O Israel or Lord God is one Lord)
Jesus said: "Shamma Israelu adonai Elohim adonai Ikhrad." (Mark 12:29) (Hear! O Israel or Lord God is one Lord)
Muhammad said: "Qulhu Allahu Ahad." (Qur'an 112:1) (Say! God is one)

So there must be a problem here as half of the christians believe in the "Father, Son and Holy Ghost".
This Idea of a triune God came when the disciple of Jesus (or whoever they were) went to preach to the Greek (which have their gods beyond counting coming to earth and begetting demigods and having almost the same fate as Jesus), so a new story of a (metaphorical) son of God born in Judea, came to them. Therefore what was metaphorical for the Jews became literal for the Greek. So Jesus became another (begotten) son of God and mary his mother became the mother of God and on and on.

Therefore there cannot be any single God associated with these myths who is somehow miraculously "protecting" His Word, because there clearly is no protection at all. The myths have been violated and corrupted. Not only between Islam and Christianity, but even WITHIN those separate distortions of these myth. Islam has fallen into many difference sects with the Shias and Sunnies being the main two. And Christianity has also fallen into two main opposing sects of Catholicism and Protestantism. Again, in total disagreement with each other on many major points.

I agree that people have divided their religions,

as far as Islam is concern if you ask any muslim irrespective of their sect Shia or Sunni:
How many God is there?: He will answer "1",
How many Surahs are in the Qur'an?: He will answer "114",
What is the first surah in the Qur'an?: He will answer "Al-Fatiha" or "Al-Ham" (first verse of the Surah),
What is the last surah in the Qur'an?: He will answer "An-Nas",
Is Muhammad God?: He will say "no".

for the Christians now:
How many God is there?: He will answer "1" (some may add but a trinity),
How many Books are in the Bible?: Orthodox will answer "86", Charismatic will answer "76", Catholique will answer "73", Protestans will answer "66".
What is the first book of the Bible?: He will answer "Genesis",
What is the last book of the Bible?: He will answer "Apocalypse" or "Revelation" (only a matter of name),
Is Jesus God?: Trinitarian will say "Yes", Unitarian will say "No", Anglican Bishops will say "It is not necessary to believe", others will say "I'm confused".

And then of course Protestantism itself has continued to degrade into countless opposing denominations that can hardly agree on anything.

And worse they all claim to have the holy Ghost, but none point to the same direction.

So which version of these highly convoluted and disagreeing sects is the "Protected Word" of this original God of Abraham?

It is up to you, I have given examples, If you need more about particular subjects just reply.

If some God was "protecting" his word, he wouldn't have allowed all these different opposing sects and doctrines to have been created in the first place.

I will disregard the repeating comments.
Concerning the sects and denominations in every religion on earth this exist but to stay in context I will take the muslim as example:

"Indeed, those who have divided their religion and become sects - you, [O Muhammad], are not [associated] with them in anything. Their affair is only [left] to Allah ; then He will inform them about what they used to do." (Qur'an 6:159)

Now you cannot blame God for what men did, you have your free will to dis/obey him.

Hope I was clear in my points, do not hesitate I you have any Query.

[mchristos606]

A lot of Christians don't realize that Muslims worship the same god as they do.

Question for Debate: Why? Is there a Islamic belief that causes this?

It is absolutely absurd to suggest that Muslims and Christians worship the same God. The Quran is the plagiarized version of The Bible , where Allah tries to make himself legitimate by associating himself with events described in The Bible.

We know that the OT , for the most part , is a total fabrication of jewish scribes as they described their favoured standing in the eyes of God. There is a vast difference between the OT , New Testament and The Quran. The gist of The OT and The Quran is very similar...killing and more killing ! The New Testament is diametrically opposed to The OT and The Quran.

By further parsing , we can also discern major differences between The OT and The Quran. While Yahweh drowns the whole world in the great flood , he does not advocate killing the followers of different religions. The Quran actively urges muslims to kill jews and Christians !!

The main "prophet " in Islam is Muhammad who is actually a PEDOPHILE , killer , torturer , gangster, liar !! The muslim God Allah comes acrosss as a psychopath , whom you obey or you will burn in hell-fire for eternity.

Compare that to the other " prophet " Christ who healed the blind and the lepers , turned water into wine , raised Lazarus from the dead , fed multitudes with a few fishes and loafs and resurrected himself from the dead.

Even by our own human standards , we can see that Allah and Islam are absolute EVIL , the likes of which the world has never seen ! If you don't want to use the human standard , you can use the philosophical standard where God is MORALLY PERFECT. A perfectly moral God could never ROAST even ONE human being in the hell -fire , let alone 6/7 of the world's peoples as Allah will because they are disbelievers !!

No , we do NOT worship the same God. Christians worship the LOVING God The Father whose children we are. Muslims worship the DEMON Allah whose SLAVES they are !


BIG DIFFERENCE !!

[Divine Insight]

[Replying to post 61 by Divine Insight]

Hi brothers,
I would like to clear some of your points concerning what you have said;

You haven't given any clarification at all. All you've given is the same baloney that the Christian apologists give.

The claim made by muslim is supported by the Holy Qur'an:

So what?

The claims made by Christian are supported by their Holy Bible too.

All this amounts to is a dogma war. It's never been anything more than this.

1)Some say original sin which is contradicted by the bible itself:

The concept of original sin is clearly false. There can be no doubt about this.

We know now that the world was dog-eat-dog long before humans ever appeared. Disease, natural disasters, and all manner of imperfections have always existed. Humans cannot possibly be responsible for the state of life on Earth.

Moreover, both the Holy Bible and the Holy Qur'an are filled with lies about mankind being responsible for any of this. These are simply fables that are based upon the very same absolutely false claims.

Both Christianity and Islam are clearly false mythologies that have no more merit than Greek Mythology.

From the old scripture of the bible in existence (around 10,000 "copies") no 2 are identical.
The Qur'an used are identical except for vowel (which are different according to dialect).

Not impressive at all. Sorry. Lies are lies no matter how well-kept them may have been.

Now concerning false doctrine, the bible contains a warning against that:
As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?
Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Messiah,' and will deceive many. (Matthew 24:4-6)

And Muhammad clearly came after Jesus. Therefore Muhammad would be the false profit if you go by this. There would be no need for any more prophets after the appearance of the actual Son of God.

So the Christians have one up on your Qur'an there. Though that doesn't give their mythology any more merit in the end. Both of these religions are based on fundamental lies that try to pin all of the ills of the world onto mankind. But we know now that these are indeed lies that have no merit whatsoever.

To know which one is truth then we must analyze their roots:
Islam means submission to God almighty, and this name was given by himself:
"…This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion..." (Qur'an 5:3)
God gave the name Islam.

Again, your just quoting from dogma that claims to be the top dog. That's typical.

But the truth is that if you genuinely analyze the roots you'll see that Judaism came first, in fact even Jesus was a Jew. And then Christianity came as an offshoot from that, and finally Islam came as an offshoot from that. So Islam has the least credibility of the three main factions. With Judaism having the greatest.

In fact, if you want to go from the vantage point of analyzing the roots of the Middle Eastern religions then everyone should convert to Judaism.

Of course, in truth, there's really no reason to even restrict oneself to the middle eastern religion. Even Judaism is just an offshoot of Greek Mythology anyway.

All that Allah or Yahweh amount to are a glorified Zeus made into an extremely jealous self-centered egotistical male-chauvinistic God.

The original Zeus of the Greeks was actually a better mythology.

Hope I was clear in my points, do not hesitate I you have any Query.

You haven't made any points that warrant further query. All you've done is proclaim the same nonsense, "The Holy Qur'an states this, blah blah blah, and this is proof that it's true."

Nonsense. That's a totally worthless approach that only shows that you are worshiping dogma and nothing more.

That's the same mentality of Christianity. It totally ignores the TRUTH of reality that mankind cannot possibly be responsible for the dog-eat-dog nature of the world. That nature was in place long before mankind ever came upon the scene.

So we can know with absolute certainty that these old religious myths that try to pin original sin onto mankind are clearly false. Just like there are no Gods on Mt. Olympus thus revealing the falsehood of Greek mythology we can clearly see that mankind is not responsible for the evils of planet Earth, thus revealing the falsehood of all of the Abrahamic Religions, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

Continually quoting from mythological dogma that contains these lies is futile.

These are all clearly false religions that have no basis in reality.

[Muzaffar]

[Replying to post 63 by mchristos606]

It is absolutely absurd to suggest that Muslims and Christians worship the same God. The Quran is the plagiarized version of The Bible

,
Very good but can you show me one verse from the Qur'an which has been plagiarized from the bible?

But I can show you plagiarithm from the bible itself:
II King 19 and Isaiah 37.

We know that the OT , for the most part , is a total fabrication of jewish scribes as they described their favoured standing in the eyes of God.

Then you should also remove all the references to the OT found in the Gospels, as Jesus says: Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? (Matthew 7:16)
So if the OT is Thorns then you cannot have grapes from it.

There is a vast difference between the OT , New Testament and The Quran. The gist of The OT and The Quran is very similar...killing and more killing ! The New Testament is diametrically opposed to The OT and The Quran.

Proof enough to discard the NT as rubbish, as God does not change.
For killing Jesus himself commanded his disciples to kill his enemies:
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. (Luke 19:27)
Then he wanted his disciples to carry swords, why?
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. (Luke 22:36)

By further parsing , we can also discern major differences between The OT and The Quran. While Yahweh drowns the whole world in the great flood , he does not advocate killing the followers of different religions.

Please read the bible before making stupid claims:
Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. (1 Samuel 15:3)

The Quran actively urges muslims to kill jews and Christians !!

Where does the Qur'an tells to kill all the Jews and Christians??

The main "prophet " in Islam is Muhammad who is actually a PEDOPHILE , killer , torturer , gangster, liar !! The muslim God Allah comes acrosss as a psychopath , whom you obey or you will burn in hell-fire for eternity. Compare that to the other " prophet " Christ who healed the blind and the lepers , turned water into wine , raised Lazarus from the dead , fed multitudes with a few fishes and loafs and resurrected himself from the dead.

I think you should compare the Genealogy of Jesus where you have 6 BASTARD and BEGETTERS of BASTARDS.
From among them you have Lot, Judas the father of the Jewish race also ancestor of the Christians, you also have Samuel the son of David….
Where did Jesus said that HE raised lazarus from the dead?
Where does he say that HE fed the people.
NT: Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: (Acts 2:22)
God did the miracles not Jesus.

please time is not to be spent on stupidities, these miracles that you mentioned even the anti-christ can do according to Jesus.
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. (Matthew 24:24)
And more Jesus said:
Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. (Matthew 11:11)
Prove that John the baptist did any miracle.

Even by our own human standards , we can see that Allah and Islam are absolute EVIL , the likes of which the world has never seen !

There is not much difference from the God of the NT unless Jesus is a liar.
And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. (John 5:37)

If you don't want to use the human standard , you can use the philosophical standard where God is MORALLY PERFECT. A perfectly moral God could never ROAST even ONE human being in the hell -fire , let alone 6/7 of the world's peoples as Allah will because they are disbelievers !!

Morally perfect neither include a God asking his son to commit suicide, or even cannot forgive unless the blood of his son to be poured.
Major Yeats-Brown, in his "Life of a Bengal Lancer", wrote the Christian Doctrine of the Atonement:
"NO HEATHEN TRIBE HAS CONCEIVED SO GROTESQUE AN IDEA, INVOLVING AS IT DOES THE ASSUMPTION, THAT MAN WAS BORN WITH A HEREDITARY STAIN UPON HIM: AND THAT THIS STAIN (FOR WHICH HE WAS NOT PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE) WAS TO BE ATONED FOR: AND THAT THE CREATOR OF ALL THINGS HAD TO SACRIFICE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON TO NEUTRALISE THIS MYSTERIOUS CURSE."

No , we do NOT worship the same God. Christians worship the LOVING God The Father whose children we are. Muslims worship the DEMON Allah whose SLAVES they are !

What kind of loving God is this:
Jesus pleading for his life, sweating blood and yet he(the "loving" God) sent him to the slaughter.

And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt. (Matthew 26:39)
He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done. (Matthew 26:42)
And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words. (Matthew 26:44)
And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground. (Luke 22:44)

Is that love to you...

BIG DIFFERENCE !!

I would rather say worlds apart.

[Muzaffar]

[Replying to post 64 by Divine Insight]

You haven't given any clarification at all. All you've given is the same baloney that the Christian apologists give.

Contradict me then.

So what? 
The claims made by Christian are supported by their Holy Bible too.
All this amounts to is a dogma war. It's never been anything more than this.

The bible testifies and contradict further as opposed to the Qur'an.

The concept of original sin is clearly false. There can be no doubt about this.

We know now that the world was dog-eat-dog long before humans ever appeared. Disease, natural disasters, and all manner of imperfections have always existed. Humans cannot possibly be responsible for the state of life on Earth.

Then you are assuming that pollution came by itself and the hole in the ozone layer too.

Moreover, both the Holy Bible and the Holy Qur'an are filled with lies about mankind being responsible for any of this. These are simply fables that are based upon the very same absolutely false claims.

Both Christianity and Islam are clearly false mythologies that have no more merit than Greek Mythology.

And yet Islam's book, the Qur'an gives scientific proof about it's veracity.

Not impressive at all. Sorry. Lies are lies no matter how well-kept them may have been.

This is clear enough that you have already made your mind, you've made a point I contradicted you, and now you say "lies are lies" if you don't believe in God and not about to debate in a proper manner this web site is not a place for you.

And Muhammad clearly came after Jesus. Therefore Muhammad would be the false profit if you go by this. There would be no need for any more prophets after the appearance of the actual Son of God.

Following this logic then no prophet would be needed at all as the bible says that Adam is the son of God:
Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God. (Luke 3:38)

Again, your just quoting from dogma that claims to be the top dog. That's typical.

But the truth is that if you genuinely analyze the roots you'll see that Judaism came first, in fact even Jesus was a Jew. And then Christianity came as an offshoot from that, and finally Islam came as an offshoot from that. So Islam has the least credibility of the three main factions. With Judaism having the greatest.

Show me 1 single verse where in the bible it is written that Moses followed the religion of Judaism.

In fact, if you want to go from the vantage point of analyzing the roots of the Middle Eastern religions then everyone should convert to Judaism.

Of course, in truth, there's really no reason to even restrict oneself to the middle eastern religion. Even Judaism is just an offshoot of Greek Mythology anyway.

All that Allah or Yahweh amount to are a glorified Zeus made into an extremely jealous self-centered egotistical male-chauvinistic God.

The original Zeus of the Greeks was actually a better mythology.

Show me proof.
Writings without proof is rubbish.

You haven't made any points that warrant further query. All you've done is proclaim the same nonsense, "The Holy Qur'an states this, blah blah blah, and this is proof that it's true." Nonsense. That's a totally worthless approach that only shows that you are worshiping dogma and nothing more.

At least I have supported all my points whereas you have only wrote whatever idiocy pass through your mind without any support.

That's the same mentality of Christianity. It totally ignores the TRUTH of reality that mankind cannot possibly be responsible for the dog-eat-dog nature of the world. That nature was in place long before mankind ever came upon the scene.

If you can show me where does the Qur'an tells that mankind is responsible for every evil on earth.
Again when you put forth a claim about a religion you should bring proof from his belief.

So we can know with absolute certainty that these old religious myths that try to pin original sin onto mankind are clearly false.

This idea is rejected in Islam, each one is responsible for his own mischief, If I kill an innocent you are not the one that will be punished, but I will.

Just like there are no Gods on Mt. Olympus thus revealing the falsehood of Greek mythology we can clearly see that mankind is not responsible for the evils of planet Earth, thus revealing the falsehood of all of the Abrahamic Religions, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

Then if no man is responsible for the evil on earth then I think that you should write to your Government to ask him for the release of all prisoners as they are not responsible.

Continually quoting from mythological dogma that contains these lies is futile. These are all clearly false religions that have no basis in reality

Show me the lies contained in the "mythological dogma".








This is clear enough that since you cannot prove that

[mchristos606]

GOD IS NOT A CRIMINAL. GOD IS NOT A MALE CHAUVINIST PIG. ONLY A GOD OF MORAL PERFECTIONâ„¢ IS GOD. IF GOD KILLED OR ORDERED THE KILLING OF JUST ONE HUMAN BEING OR ANY OTHER CREATURE THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE OR COMMITTED ANY CRIMINAL ACT THEN GOD WOULD NO LONGER BE MORAL PERFECTION AND THEREFORE NO LONGER GOD. GOD WOULD NOT EXIST.

God is to be JUDGED by the above standard . Muslims tell us that The Bible is corrupted so therefore we can't use the Bible as our reference. There is only one book in the world which claims to be the " pure , UNADULTERATED word of God......The Quran !!

Qur’an 9:12-14-Fight the disbelievers! Allah is on your side; he will give you victory. .

Qur’an 9:5 Kill the nonbelievers wherever you find them.

 Qur’an 2:191-2-Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. 

Allah , as the God........an EPIC FAILURE !!




.

[Muzaffar]

[Replying to post 67 by mchristos606]

GOD IS NOT A CRIMINAL. GOD IS NOT A MALE CHAUVINIST PIG. ONLY A GOD OF MORAL PERFECTIONâ„¢ IS GOD. IF GOD KILLED OR ORDERED THE KILLING OF JUST ONE HUMAN BEING OR ANY OTHER CREATURE THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE OR COMMITTED ANY CRIMINAL ACT THEN GOD WOULD NO LONGER BE MORAL PERFECTION AND THEREFORE NO LONGER GOD. GOD WOULD NOT EXIST.

For anyone from whom this was quoted he should have himself followed by a psychiatrist as if he becomes a leader he will not punish anyone even if they rape or kill he will say it is immoral to claim justice.

God is to be JUDGED by the above standard. Muslims tell us that The Bible is corrupted so therefore we can't use the Bible as our reference. There is only one book in the world which claims to be the " pure , UNADULTERATED word of God......The Quran !!

As far as I'm concerned I believed that the bible contains the world of God and also other thing besides, I you want to make reference from the Bible feel free.

Amazing the quotes that you have made, the problem with them is that you have only taken part of the verse and out of context.
Any person of reason will know that if you quote out of context you are trying to put a false claim.

Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.
And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers. (Qur'an 2:190-191)

For the first section in bold it gives you the context (with whom to fight.)
for the Second I quote it out of context it will mean "Do not fight" but this is not the way quotations are made.
They should be made in context and completely.

Excepted are those with whom you made a treaty among the polytheists and then they have not been deficient toward you in anything or supported anyone against you; so complete for them their treaty until their term [has ended]. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know. (Qur'an 9:4-6)

You have emphasized on the first part in bold, I would recommend you to also read the next parts in bold, specially those who say "if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection" and "deliver him to his place of safety". I personally don't know any law that ask you to take your enemy to a secure place.

And if they break their oaths after their treaty and defame your religion, then fight the leaders of disbelief, for indeed, there are no oaths [sacred] to them; [fight them that] they might cease. Would you not fight a people who broke their oaths and determined to expel the Messenger, and they had begun [the attack upon] you the first time? Do you fear them? But Allah has more right that you should fear Him, if you are [truly] believers. Fight them; Allah will punish them by your hands and will disgrace them and give you victory over them and satisfy the breasts of a believing people (Qur'an 9:12-14)

Logic for those who have will tell them that these verses ask for the believers to fight against those who break their treaty, and attack you first time.

It's clear to me that you have only showed what others have shown to you or you are an illogical person else you would have back these "arguments".

Allah , as the God........an EPIC FAILURE !!

I believe it's completely the opposite (it would be good to give at least one reason why it is a failure.
But on the side of Christianity:
You have a God who created everything and everything is he's but for some reason he curses Adam and sin came into the world and the same God is so powerless and rancorous that he cannot forgive sins unless he kills himself (part of whole depending trinitarian or not) or his son.
If for you this is success I can understand why you tell that the moral (punish those who deserve punishment) things are failures.

[mchristos606]

Muzaffar writes :

GOD IS NOT A CRIMINAL. GOD IS NOT A MALE CHAUVINIST PIG. ONLY A GOD OF MORAL PERFECTIONâ„¢ IS GOD. IF GOD KILLED OR ORDERED THE KILLING OF JUST ONE HUMAN BEING OR ANY OTHER CREATURE THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE OR COMMITTED ANY CRIMINAL ACT THEN GOD WOULD NO LONGER BE MORAL PERFECTION AND THEREFORE NO LONGER GOD. GOD WOULD NOT EXIST

.For anyone from whom this was quoted he should have himself followed by a psychiatrist as if he becomes a leader he will not punish anyone even if they rape or kill he will say it is immoral to claim justice. 

One should UNDERSTAND that the dispensation of justice is a group function. Any time you have a "god" who is the judge, the jury and the executioner , you can be certain that it is a false God.

Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors. And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers. (Qur'an 2:190-191) 

When your " most powerful " being in the whole creation needs his muslim " slaves " to fight for him ,it should tell you that there is something very wrong here. The followers of such a " god " obviously can't THINK at all , otherwise they would see how utterly illogical the whole thing is !
Only DEMONS who have NO POWER , need someone else to FIGHT and KILL for them.
The TRUE God says : " turn the other cheek " !

It's clear to me that you have only showed what others have shown to you or you are an illogical person else you would have back these "arguments". 

" Truth is self-evident " - except to those who are not very sharp or to those who willfully embrace lies propagated by their " god ".

Allah , as the God........an EPIC FAILURE !!

I believe it's completely the opposite (it would be good to give at least one reason why it is a failure. 

Ron Paul said : " Truth is treason in the empire of LIES ".
When a person becomes completelly iniquitous , lying and doing evil things becomes a way of life. For muslims , who have been BRAINWASHED into believing that the Quran is the word of God , morality and ethics don't exist because they don't question anything. It's OK by them to drag dead bodies through the city streets all the while shouting : Allahu akbar. The list of atrocities is too long to mention.
You can take solace in your own admission that you see nothing wrong in Allah commanding his followers to : " slay and be slain in Allah's cause ". You are a TRUE muslim !

[Muzaffar]

[Replying to post 69 by mchristos606]

One should UNDERSTAND that the dispensation of justice is a group function. Any time you have a "god" who is the judge, the jury and the executioner , you can be certain that it is a false God.

Who's is talking about God being the judge here?
I was saying that no man sound of spirit will not claim justice, this was my point, prove me wrong.

When your " most powerful " being in the whole creation needs his muslim " slaves " to fight for him ,it should tell you that there is something very wrong here.

Give me one verse where the Qur'an shows 1 (I don't need much) dependency from God.
The "something very wrong here" is you speaking without backing proof.

The followers of such a " god " obviously can't THINK at all , otherwise they would see how utterly illogical the whole thing is !

The thing which is "illogical" here is that you don't have proof.

Only DEMONS who have NO POWER , need someone else to FIGHT and KILL for them.
The TRUE God says : " turn the other cheek " !

I think that your God suffers from schizophrenia he also says:
Exodus 21:23-27
23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
26 And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake.
27 And if he smite out his manservant's tooth, or his maidservant's tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake.

Concerning "have no powers":
Show me 1 verse from the Qur'an where God says that he was not able to do something.
But from the Bible:
And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron. (Judges 1:19)
I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. (John 5:30)
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. (Luke 22:36)

A powerless God, restricted in Knowledge yet with all his preaching of right cheek and left cheek he orders to buy swords this is not God almighty but God All funny.

" Truth is self-evident " - except to those who are not very sharp or to those who willfully embrace lies propagated by their " god ".

I agree for the first part, as with all the non-sense found in the OT and NT you (Christians) continue to accept that as the "unchanged word of God".
AS for lies propagated by false "god" I personally think that there is no such thing as false "god" except it is an Idol or in the mind of people. People utter lies in the name of God like:
This is what Jesus say:
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:20)
But the self appointed apostle Paul says by faith we will go to heaven:
Romans 5:1-2
1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
I want to know who lied.

Ron Paul said : " Truth is treason in the empire of LIES ".

This explains your reaction when I wrote about the Bible.

When a person becomes completelly iniquitous , lying and doing evil things becomes a way of life. For muslims , who have been BRAINWASHED into believing that the Quran is the word of God , morality and ethics don't exist because they don't question anything.

Is it really that we don't question anything.
All throughout the Qur'an it is written "think", "have a look" ,"have another look", "can't you not see" and yet you say that we just believe.
I would like to ask you several questions about Christianity:
Is Jesus God?
Did Jesus die?
Did God die?
If you have common sense you will realize how this is illogical and yet you will continue to follow it, now we will see who has been brainwashed.
Moreover Christians pretend that the Bible is the "unchanged word of God" and of this "unchanged word of God" they have in their possession more that 10000 copies from which no 2 are identical, an again you will continue to believe that the Bible is the "unchanged word of God".
This is not called belief but blindness followed by madness.

It's OK by them to drag dead bodies through the city streets all the while shouting : Allahu akbar. The list of atrocities is too long to mention.

Go and study the history of Christianity and all the stories from the Bible then you will see the atrocities done by the Judeo-Christian God and his blind followers:
One I would like to point out is:
And he smote the men of Beth–shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the Lord, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the Lord had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter. (1 Samuel 6:19)
Your "all loving" giving cheek God killed 50,070 people for looking into a box.

You can take solace in your own admission that you see nothing wrong in Allah commanding his followers to : " slay and be slain in Allah's cause ". You are a TRUE muslim !

What a beautiful Psalms this is:
Of David. Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle. (Psalms 144:1)
And on the second coming of Jesus ask him: "Why did he order to sell clothes to buy swords? And what would have been the use of these swords?".

But what is amazing is that if you don't fight no one will send do anything to you, but you will see your people being killed, captured, tortured and rape by the enemy. And frankly who will not lift his finger. Like the americans who are sent to Jail for treason if they do not engage in army (there are certain conditions but majority who refuses). From among them you have Mohammed Ali.