The quran is nothing special

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FoxholeAtheist
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The quran is nothing special

Post #1

Post by FoxholeAtheist »

I am an atheist who has been looking into Islamic apologetics for quite a while.
It has been a few years since I heard a new Argument from the apologists, and therefore I feel that I have a very good understanding of their point of view by now.

If there are any Muslims who wish to prove me wrong, then go ahead.

The reason that I am interested in Islam rather than Christianity is because I find that Muslims, and not Christians, absolutely insist that there are plenty of objective reasons to believe that their book is not man made. I find that Christians agree that there is a large component of faith, and they understand that I simply don't have that faith. Muslims on the other hand insist that if I am not impressed with the quran, then I am a 'hater', or ignorant and blind.

The reason that I have joined this forum rather than a Muslim one, is because every time I have tried to debate Muslims on a Muslim forum, I have been banned.

mchristos606
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Post #21

Post by mchristos606 »

FoxholeAtheist wrote: Surely there must exist one Muslim in the world who has something worthwhile to say about their religion. Where is he/she hiding?

There is absolutely NOTHING worthwhile in Islam ! The fact that a person considers themselves to be muslim tells you all that you need to know. The Quran is truly " Satanic verses " ! The most damming expose is found in Craig Winn's book : " The prophet of Doom " . He took 5 of the best English translations of the Quran plus the Hadiths , and parsed the whole thing verse by verse.

You can read it on- line.

:D

steps
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Post #22

Post by steps »

Satan , devil , the evil one , Demon …. mchristos606 used every word he knows to Attack the Quran . and the holy Quran is replying his false claims about Satan ....

From the beginning : the result he is the followers of Satan .. and the Muslims are the followers of Allah and his prophets .

1- the Muslims Before reading the Quran they said : " I seek refuge in Allah from Satan the accursed one." .

2- here is a great meaning from the holy Quran :[ 53. Say to My servants that they should (only) say those things that are best: for Satan doth sow dissensions among them: For Satan is to man an avowed enemy. ] Surah 23

3- [168. O ye people! Eat of what is on earth, Lawful and good; and do not follow the footsteps of the evil one, for he is to you an avowed enemy.] Surah 2

4- [268. The Evil one threatens you with poverty and bids you to conduct unseemly. Allah promiseth you His forgiveness and bounties. And Allah careth for all and He knoweth all things.]Surah 2

5- [76. Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan: feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan.] Surah 4

6- [117. (The Pagans), leaving Him, call but upon female deities: They call but upon satan the persistent rebel!118. Allah did curse him, but he said: "I will take of Thy servants a portion Marked off;119. "I will mislead them, and I will create in them false desires; I will order them to slit the ears of cattle, and to deface the (fair) nature created by Allah." Whoever, forsaking Allah, takes satan for a friend, hath of a surety suffered a loss that is manifest.120. Satan makes them promises, and creates in them false desires; but satan's promises are nothing but deception. 121. They (his dupes) will have their dwelling in Hell, and from it they will find no way of escape. ] Surah 4

And there are many Quranic verses warn the Muslims not to follow the Satan and his followers , or follow the ways that lead to Satan .
I would like to end with this verse from Surah Ibrahim chapter 14:

[21. They will all be marshalled before Allah together: then will the weak say to those who were arrogant, "For us, we but followed you; can ye then avail us to all against the wrath of Allah." They will reply, "If we had received the Guidance of Allah, we should have given it to you: to us it makes no difference (now) whether we rage, or bear (these torments) with patience: for ourselves there is no way of escape."22. And Satan will say when the matter is decided: "It was Allah Who gave you a promise of Truth: I too promised, but I failed in my promise to you. I had no authority over you except to call you but ye listened to me: then reproach not me, but reproach your own souls. I cannot listen to your cries, nor can ye listen to mine. I reject your former act in associating me with Allah. For wrong-doers there must be a grievous penalty."]

Now we know that you are the most loyal friend for Satan .

mchristos606 , Thank you so much

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Re: Oh.. yea

Post #23

Post by steps »

Divine Insight wrote:
steps wrote: 34. But on this Day the Believers will laugh at the Unbelievers:
The believers will laugh at the unbelievers?

Is this the kind of egotistical sickness that the Qu'ran teaches? :-k

Why would any decent moral person laugh at anyone who is about to be condemned?

That can only be the ego gone wild.

So once again, you've just proven that this religion has no moral merit whatsoever.

I used to think that Christianity was easy to debunk, but Islam appears to have been written by immature spoiled brats who never grew beyond puberty. :roll:
Wow , Mr. harmony with Jesus .
Even the laugh forbidden on the believers of Allah ?
You do not leave for them anything : the unbelievers insulted them , attacked them , considered them silly people , brainwashed , the followers of myths … everything you can imagine .
Surely Mary will laugh on those who accused her with adultery .
Surely Jesus will laugh on those who attacked him and insulted him .
Surely Moses will laugh on Pharaoh and his followers [ the atheists ] .
Surely every believer will laugh on those who used to say : the believers are silly , brainwashed ……..
99. (In Falsehood will they be) Until, when death comes to one of them, he says: "O my Lord! send me back (to life),-
100. "In order that I may work righteousness in the things I neglected." - "By no means! It is but a word he says."- Before them is a Partition till the Day they are raised up.

101. Then when the Trumpet is blown, there will be no more relationships between them that Day, nor will one ask after another!
102. Then those whose balance (of good deeds) is heavy,- they will attain salvation:
103. But those whose balance is light, will be those who have lost their souls, in Hell will they abide.
104. The Fire will burn their faces, and they will therein grin, with their lips displaced.
105. "Were not My Signs rehearsed to you, and ye did but treat them as falsehood?"
106. They will say: "our Lord! Our misfortune overwhelmed us, and we became a people astray!
107. "Our Lord! bring us out of this: if ever we return (to Evil), then shall we be wrong-doers indeed!"
108. He will say: "Be ye driven into it (with ignominy)! And speak ye not to Me!
109. "A part of My servants there was, who used to pray 'our Lord! we believe; then do Thou forgive us, and have mercy upon us: For Thou art the Best of those who show mercy!"
110. "But ye treated them with ridicule, so much so that (ridicule of) them made you forget My Message while ye were laughing at them!
111. "I have rewarded them this Day for their patience and constancy: they are indeed the ones that have achieved Bliss..."

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Re: Oh.. yea

Post #24

Post by Divine Insight »

steps wrote: Wow , Mr. harmony with Jesus .
Even the laugh forbidden on the believers of Allah ?
You do not leave for them anything : the unbelievers insulted them , attacked them , considered them silly people , brainwashed , the followers of myths … everything you can imagine .
Your hatred toward non-believers is quite evident. And you clearly got this attitude from this hateful religion.

All non-believers are not as you claim. That is your first mistake right there.

steps wrote: Surely Mary will laugh on those who accused her with adultery .
How silly is this? You talk about being accused of being a silly person, but look at what you are suggesting here.

People who do not believe that Mary was ever impregnated by a God most certainly aren't going to be accusing her of adultery. On other contrary, only a "believer" could do that. :roll:
steps wrote: Surely Jesus will laugh on those who attacked him and insulted him .
To not believe the rumors about Jesus is not attacking him, nor insulting him.

On the contrary, my belief that Jesus was not the Son of the God of the Old Testament is actually a quite respectable compliment.
steps wrote: Surely Moses will laugh on Pharaoh and his followers [ the atheists ] .
Only if Moses is an egotistical pig.

If there really was a man named Moses who cared anything at all about human spirits I'm sure he would personally be very saddened that he had failed in his job to be conniving. For him to laugh at others for his own failings would be extremely haughty on his part don't you think?
steps wrote: Surely every believer will laugh on those who used to say : the believers are silly , brainwashed ……..
Why should they laugh at anyone for speaking the truth?

Clearly your religion is based almost entirely upon egotistical revenge against anyone who doesn't believe in the same myths that you believe in. :roll:

I would never laugh at anyone for not believing in a God who himself plays "Hide and Seek".

Moreover, for you to pretend that you've "found" this God who plays "Hide and Seek" implies that you believe that you have beaten this God at his own game.

If Allah wants to play Hide-and-Seek games I think the best thing we can do is allow him to win. We don't want to be bursting his bubble. ;)

But if you get off on laughing at people who will supposedly be condemned don't let me spoil your party. Just don't expect me to join in those hateful religious practices.

If I were going to preach of a God I would preach of a God of LOVE, not a God of hatred and immature egotistical vengeance. :roll:

You're never going to convince anyone to become a Muslim for sure. All you are going to do is convince them that they are right to steer as far away from it as they possibly can.

And I do thank you for that. ;)

I couldn't do a better job than you are already doing, so keep up the good work.
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Post #25

Post by steps »

In each comment your heart is exposing more hatred . and you are absolutely do not know anything about Islam nor Jesus .

Mr.
I have a guidance from Allah determine my relations with Allah , with the believers , with the unbelievers , with the enemies of Allah .

So read and read carefully .

[8. Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just. ] Surah 60.

Even dealing justly with our enemy .

[ and let not the hatred of some people in (once) shutting you out of the Sacred Mosque lead you to transgression (and hostility on your part). Help ye one another in righteousness and piety, but help ye not one another in sin and rancour: fear Allah. for Allah is strict in punishment. ]

Also : [8. O ye who believe! stand out firmly for Allah, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear Allah. For Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do.]

And this is the Law of all prophets , and the message of all prophets .

in 3 verses I exposed the false claim of mchristos606

Now look at yourself : you said Moses is an egotistical pig.

Did Jesus say this about Moses ? no , never because Jesus knows that Moses established of the Laws of Jesus himself . and the greater prophet to the sons of Israel .

Jesus followed the Laws of Moses , and during his return will follow the Laws of Mohammad .

----------------------

Examples to show you the first attacker and his heart fills with hatred are the enemies of Allah :

When Allah sent Moses to the head of atheists in all ages [ Pharaoh ]. He commanded Moses and Aaron :
[43. "Go, both of you, to Pharaoh, for he has indeed transgressed all bounds;44. "But speak to him mildly; perchance he may take warning or fear ((Allah))."] Surah 20

Pharaoh was enslaving the sons of Israel , he killed the men and enslaved the women , therefore prophet Moses asked him : [17. "'Send thou with us the Children of Israel.'"] Surah 26 .

But did the atheist accept ? no .

Allah commanded Moses and the sons of Israel to immigrate from the land of atheists , but Pharaoh did not leave them , he followed them until Allah drowned him .

The aggressor is Pharaoh not Moses . and through the history the aggressors are the unbelievers . it happened for Noah , Ibrahim , Jesus , Mohammad . and for the real believers in all eras .but you are using false sources to know the truth .

the believers [ from Adam to the end of the world are the same ] following the same Laws of Allah , if any one insists to disobey his Laws or behaves with arrogance his destiny will be the lake of fire .

I do not care about the false Judaism or the false Christianity .[ they are not the religions of Allah ] . becasue the followers of these religions corrupted and changed the religion of Allah .

Those are my brothers and sisters , we are one because the religion of Allah is one

[62. Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve] Surah 2

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Post #26

Post by Divine Insight »

steps wrote: In each comment your heart is exposing more hatred . and you are absolutely do not know anything about Islam nor Jesus .
I'm not the one who's going around bragging that I'll be laughing at people who will supposedly be condemned by some angry jealous God.

I would feel great sorrow for anyone who might end up in such a situation.

I thank you very much for revealing to me the immaturity and hatred of the religion you preach.
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Post #27

Post by steps »

Divine Insight wrote:
steps wrote: In each comment your heart is exposing more hatred . and you are absolutely do not know anything about Islam nor Jesus .
I'm not the one who's going around bragging that I'll be laughing at people who will supposedly be condemned by some angry jealous God.

I would feel great sorrow for anyone who might end up in such a situation.

I thank you very much for revealing to me the immaturity and hatred of the religion you preach.

Very strange thinking .
People commit sins day and night , yet they eat from the subsistence of God . then they say : angry jealous God.
People commit sins day and night , yet they live on the land of God , then they say : angry jealous God.
People commit sins day and night , yet they breathe the air of God , then they say : angry jealous God.
People commit sins day and night , yet they drink the water of God , then they say : angry jealous God.
They are fighting God by sins , accusing him , he sends down his goods , and their sins are increasing . then they say : angry jealous God.

So if you think he does not deserve the worshipping : do not eat from his subsistence and do not use his land , or breathe his air , or drink his water .

[32. It is Allah Who hath created the heavens and the earth and sendeth down rain from the skies, and with it bringeth out fruits wherewith to feed you; it is He Who hath made the ships subject to you, that they may sail through the sea by His command; and the rivers (also) hath He made subject to you.33. And He hath made subject to you the sun and the moon, both diligently pursuing their courses; and the night and the day hath he (also) made subject to you.34. And He giveth you of all that ye ask for. But if ye count the favours of Allah, never will ye be able to number them. Verily, man is given up to injustice and ingratitude.] Surah 14


No , Mr .

Allah is Most Bountiful … but the man is unjust and ingratitude.
Allah is most forgiveness .. but the man is unjust and ingratitude .

When you know Allah for real , you will know your big mistake .

Once again : do not depend on false sources to speak about the truth .

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Post #28

Post by Divine Insight »

steps wrote: Once again : do not depend on false sources to speak about the truth .
I don't. And this is why your continual preaching means nothing to me. :roll:
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Post #29

Post by mchristos606 »

Sahih International 9:111

Indeed, Allah has purchased from the believers their lives and their properties [in exchange] for that they will have Paradise. They fight in the cause of Allah , so they kill and are killed. . [It is] a true promise [binding] upon Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. And who is truer to his covenant than Allah ? So rejoice in your transaction which you have contracted. And it is that which is the great attainment.

Muslims always say that people should read the Quran so that they can see the truth of it . They claim that Islam is the " religion of peace " and that Allah is a loving and merciful God.

They also claim that the Quran is the TRUE and UNADULTERATED " word of God " !!

Well , lets take a look at the most merciful Allah and his " true and unadulterated " word , the Quran.

We see that this " God " BOUGHT your LIFE and your WEALTH = everything you are = your SOUL !!!
In return you get to go to Paradise where there are HOURIS waiting for you !!! (Houris are SEX-SLAVES , perpetual VIRGINS just waiting to indulge your EVERY whim. They are Allah's SPECIAL CREATION for believers and they don't........WAIT........have menses and are therefore always CLEAN !


In order for muslims to get such delights they " MUST KILL and BE KILLED in Allah's CAUSE " !!

Who do they kill ? They kill their ENEMIES.......Jews and ESPECIALLY CHRISTIANS !!


There is no doubt that Allah is......The Devil !! Even if you never believed in The Devil before , the UNHOLY and UNGODLY , utterly EVIL Allah , the Quran and Islam , SHOULD make you THINK !!


Just read the Quran !!


:D

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Post #30

Post by steps »

59. Say: "O people of the Book! Do ye disapprove of us for no other reason than that we believe in Allah, and the revelation that hath come to us and that which came before (us), and (perhaps) that most of you are rebellious and disobedient?"


60. Say: "Shall I point out to you something much worse than this, (as judged) by the treatment it received from Allah. those who incurred the curse of Allah and His wrath, those of whom some He transformed into apes and swine, those who worshipped evil;- these are (many times) worse in rank, and far more astray from the even path!"


61. When they come to thee, they say: "We believe": but in fact they enter with a mind against Faith, and they go out with the same but Allah knoweth fully all that they hide.

62. Many of them dost thou see, racing each other in sin and rancour, and their eating of things forbidden. Evil indeed are the things that they do.

63. Why do not the rabbis and the doctors of Law forbid them from their (habit of) uttering sinful words and eating things forbidden? Evil indeed are their works.

64. The Jews say: "(Allah)'s hand is tied up." Be their hands tied up and be they accursed for the (blasphemy) they utter. Nay, both His hands are widely outstretched: He giveth and spendeth (of His bounty) as He pleaseth. But the revelation that cometh to thee from Allah increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. Amongst them we have placed enmity and hatred till the Day of Judgment. Every time they kindle the fire of war, Allah doth extinguish it; but they (ever) strive to do mischief on earth. And Allah loveth not those who do mischief.

65. If only the People of the Book had believed and been righteous, We should indeed have blotted out their iniquities and admitted them to gardens of bliss.

66. If only they had stood fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side. There is from among them a party on the right course: but many of them follow a course that is evil.

67. O Messenger. proclaim the (message) which hath been sent to thee from thy Lord. If thou didst not, thou wouldst not have fulfilled and proclaimed His mission. And Allah will defend thee from men (who mean mischief). For Allah guideth not those who reject Faith.

68. Say: "O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." It is the revelation that cometh to thee from thy Lord, that increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. But sorrow thou not over (these) people without Faith.

69. Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

70. We took the covenant of the Children of Israel and sent them apostles, every time, there came to them an apostle with what they themselves desired not - some (of these) they called impostors, and some they (go so far as to) slay.

71. They thought there would be no trial (or punishment); so they became blind and deaf; yet Allah (in mercy) turned to them; yet again many of them became blind and deaf. But Allah sees well all that they do.

72. They do blaspheme who say: "(Allah) is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help.

73. They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.


74. Why turn they not to Allah, and seek His forgiveness? For Allah is Oft- forgiving, Most Merciful.

75. Christ the son of Mary was no more than an apostle; many were the apostles that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!

76. Say: "Will ye worship, besides Allah, something which hath no power either to harm or benefit you? But Allah,- He it is that heareth and knoweth all things."

77. Say: "O people of the Book! exceed not in your religion the bounds (of what is proper), trespassing beyond the truth, nor follow the vain desires of people who went wrong in times gone by,- who misled many, and strayed (themselves) from the even way.

78. Curses were pronounced on those among the Children of Israel who rejected Faith, by the tongue of David and of Jesus the son of Mary: because they disobeyed and persisted in excesses.

79. Nor did they (usually) forbid one another the iniquities which they committed: evil indeed were the deeds which they did.

80. Thou seest many of them turning in friendship to the Unbelievers. Evil indeed are (the works) which their souls have sent forward before them (with the result), that Allah.s wrath is on them, and in torment will they abide.

81. If only they had believed in Allah, in the Messenger, and in what hath been revealed to him, never would they have taken them for friends and protectors, but most of them are rebellious wrong-doers.

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