Allah is the most merciful .

[steps]

Allah is facing our weaken by his mercifulness, our sins by his forgiveness , our small deeds by his generosity . but all of that must be under one condition : NO god but Allah . no partners beside him .

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “I swear by Him in whose hand is my soul, if you were a people who did not commit sin, Allah would take you away and replace you with a people who would sin and then seek Allah’s forgiveness so He could forgive them.� [Sahīh Muslim (2687)]


Allah already has a creation which is sinless. He has the angels who “never disobey Allah in what He commands them and carry out whatever they are told to do.� [Surah al-Tahrim: 6] they glorify Allah without fail. Some arer standing in prayer, some are bowing, and some are in prostration saying: “Glory be to the the possessor of the dominion and its possessions! Glory be to the possessor of might and irresistible power. Glory be to the Living One who never dies!�

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “I see and hear what you do not. The heavens heaved, and they have a right to do so, since there is not a place the width of a handspan that is not occupied by an angel prostrating his forehead to Allah.� [Sunan al-Tirmidhi (2312) and Sunan Ibn Majah (4190)]

In spite of all this, Allah in His wisdom wanted to create beings besides the angels – human beings who would need to be guided to the proper path and who were capable of going astray. Allah says: “Lo! We have shown him the way, whether he be grateful or disbelieving.� [Surah al-Insan: 3]

This is the nature upon which Allah created the human being. It is unavoidable that people will err. Therefore Allah has permitted us to ask His forgiveness. Indeed, He exhorts us to do so, and He promises us His forgiveness.

We should make it a habit to seek Allah’s forgiveness as often as we can. Constancy in beseeching forgiveness is a cure for the maladies of the heart as well as a means of having our sins erased.

prophet Mohammad peace be upon him said : [ “Verily, Allah created mercy; on the day He created it, He made it into one hundred parts. He kept with Him ninety-nine parts, and sent one part to all His creatures. Had the disbeliever known the mercy which is in the hands of Allah, he would not lose hope of entering Paradise, and had the believer known the punishment which is with Allah, he would not consider himself safe from the Hellfire.�]

[steps]

Allah does not accept immorality.

Neither do I. But at least I'm consistent about it and not hypocritical.

Doesn't Allah consider human pride to be a sin against him?

That hypocrisy as Allah is clearly full of pride himself. He demands to be worshiped and praised and adored and have his ego constantly stroked by his robot angels. And now apparently he's trying to get humans to glorify his ego as well.

So Allah is the epitome of his own proclamation of what he considers to be immoral.

Jesus would say that Allah is a hypocrite just like the Jewish Priest were.

Only Jesus is pristine and sinless. Jesus is the the only way to God for no one comes to the Father but through Him. Ask any Christian they will verify this.

If Allah thinks that he comes before Jesus he's only fooling himself, he's not fooling anyone else. Jesus overrides all of Muhammad's nonsense. Muhammad is the sinner for not accepting Jesus as his LORD and savior.

Just look at this:

Mark 16:16: He that believeth (in Jesus) and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

John 3:18: He that believeth on him (Jesus) is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

See?

Jesus is the only begotten Son of God. And those who do not believe in Jesus will be damned for their blaspheme. So Muhammad was clearly damned for his blaspheme against Jesus. And all of his followers will be damned as well.

It's right there in the Holy Scriptures and cannot be denied.

Jesus is LORD.

All I read the gospels of Mark or John or Matthew ……………
Where is the gospel of Jesus ?
Give me one clear confession from Jesus himself . said in it : I am God . people must worship me .

And my confession from my book : [81. Say: "If ((Allah)) Most Gracious had a son, I would be the first to worship."]

our knowledge about the books of the Christians more their knowledge .

[TG123]

"Had the disbeliever known the mercy which is in the hands of Allah, he would not lose hope of entering Paradise, and had the believer known the punishment which is with Allah, he would not consider himself safe from the Hellfire."

Gods that mete out the punishment of Hellfire obviously have no mercy or know anything about it.

I am not a Muslim, but the Bible also teaches in the existence of hell. What makes you say that God has no mercy or know anything about mercy if He sends people to Hell? Both the Bible and Quran are full of warnings to people, calling them to believe in God- although there is a huge difference between Islam's portray of Him and Christianity's portrayal of Him- or face hell. You can choose to heed the warnings or disregard them, but how does that make God unmerciful?

This may be a silly example, but if a bear pit in a zoo has a tall fence constructed around it and a sign telling people to not further than a certain point but a person chooses to disregard them and falls in and gets mauled, does that mean that the zoo superintendent is a merciless murderer who has no idea what mercy is? Or does it mean that failing to heed warnings is a risky thing, and consequences will follow?

[Divine Insight]

All I read the gospels of Mark or John or Matthew ……………
Where is the gospel of Jesus ?
Give me one clear confession from Jesus himself . said in it : I am God . people must worship me .

You've got precisely the same problem buddy.

All you've been doing is quoting from a book written by a bunch of mortal humans.

Give me one clear confession direct from Allah and I'll believe.

But clearly you can't do that. Neither can any mortal man. Only Allah can do that.

So I'll just sit here and wait for him to reveal himself.

Until then you're in the same boat with Mark and John.

You have nothing but hearsay rumors.

Everything you post from the Qur'an is nothing but empty hearsay rumors. Most likely just made up superstitions from a barbaric egotistical society that used an imaginary Allah to justify their extreme immorality and hatred of other cultures. All they ever do is preach hatred in the name of Allah anyway.

So I'll wait to hear from the real thing.

Until then have fun posting your hearsay superstitious rumors.

[Divine Insight]

This may be a silly example, but if a bear pit in a zoo has a tall fence constructed around it and a sign telling people to not further than a certain point but a person chooses to disregard them and falls in and gets mauled, does that mean that the zoo superintendent is a merciless murderer who has no idea what mercy is? Or does it mean that failing to heed warnings is a risky thing, and consequences will follow?

You won't get very far on this forum with these kinds of apologetic arguments.

There is no comparison with your analogy here and a God creating a hell in which to purposefully cast his victims.

You can't fall into hell by accident. That would imply that God's justice system is totally inept and that decent people could fall through the cracks without even realizing it.

The Bible and the Qur'an are, IMHO, both utterly ignorant, and stupid.

Therefore there is no sane reason that I would believe they could have anything to do with a supposedly all-wise God.

If there is a God associated with those myths he would be the stupidest entity that ever existed.

For me to even consider that the Bible could be a correct picture of a God would be an insult to any actual God that might exist.

If you had never met your father, would you go out and find a picture of Adolph Hitler so that when you finally meet your father you could run up to him and say, "I think this is YOU!"

Of course you wouldn't. Why would you want to insult your father like that?

Well the same thing holds true for the Bible and the Qur'an. If there really is a God why would I want to insult God by running up to him holding the Bible or the Qur'an in my hand saying "I think this is you!".

That would be the greatest insult I could give to God.

So renouncing all these hateful Abrahamic myths is the only decent thing to do.

And if there is an actual God I'm sure She will be very pleased that I did not insult Her by suggesting that I thought She was a jealous egotistical male-chauvinistic pig who hates homosexuals, etc.

[TG123]

This may be a silly example, but if a bear pit in a zoo has a tall fence constructed around it and a sign telling people to not further than a certain point but a person chooses to disregard them and falls in and gets mauled, does that mean that the zoo superintendent is a merciless murderer who has no idea what mercy is? Or does it mean that failing to heed warnings is a risky thing, and consequences will follow?

You won't get very far on this forum with these kinds of apologetic arguments.

How do you know my purpose is to "get very far" or even get far, for that matter, on this forum. I am here to discuss and debate with people and share my beliefs and also hear yours. This will probably get me far with some people, and nowhere with others. It isn't something that concerns me too much, to be frank.

There is no comparison with your analogy here and a God creating a hell in which to purposefully cast his victims.

You can't fall into hell by accident. That would imply that God's justice system is totally inept and that decent people could fall through the cracks without even realizing it.

To fall into a bear pit at the zoo, you would need to purposefully scale the fence and get past the other security restrictions. To get to hell, you need to choose to disregard what God says, which is revealed in the Bible.

The Bible and the Qur'an are, IMHO, both utterly ignorant, and stupid.

Care to explain why you feel that way?

Therefore there is no sane reason that I would believe they could have anything to do with a supposedly all-wise God.

Why? What is wrong with a Being who created you and gave you life and came down among people to voluntarily teach us and suffer and die for us, so we could accept His mercy and put our faith in Him and follow Him, and after death enter Paradise?

If there is a God associated with those myths he would be the stupidest entity that ever existed.

What makes you say that?

For me to even consider that the Bible could be a correct picture of a God would be an insult to any actual God that might exist.

Why? What would an 'actual God that might exist' be like, according to you?

If you had never met your father, would you go out and find a picture of Adolph Hitler so that when you finally meet your father you could run up to him and say, "I think this is YOU!"

Of course you wouldn't. Why would you want to insult your father like that?

Well the same thing holds true for the Bible and the Qur'an. If there really is a God why would I want to insult God by running up to him holding the Bible or the Qur'an in my hand saying "I think this is you!".

That would be the greatest insult I could give to God.

Hitler didn't create life. He didn't offer mercy to all who were willing to follow him. He can't offer salvation, nor did he teach people how to love their neighbours. He didn't perform miracles. He didn't die for humanity on the cross. He didn't rise from the dead.

Comparing Hitler to God is ludicrous, in my opinion.

So renouncing all these hateful Abrahamic myths is the only decent thing to do.

Let's assume that Islam, Judaism and Christianity are "hateful". BTW as a Christian, I believe that Islam and Judaism are not from God, though they contain some truth in then. They are not however "hateful".

But for the sake of argument, let's assume you are right. What would you replace them with?

And if there is an actual God I'm sure She will be very pleased that I did not insult Her by suggesting that I thought She was a jealous egotistical male-chauvinistic pig who hates homosexuals, etc.

What would "she" be like, according to you? What proof do you have that the god you describe exists? If you don't have proof of the existence of a deity or God, then what do you base your life on?

[Divine Insight]

To get to hell, you need to choose to disregard what God says, which is revealed in the Bible.

To get to hell I would first need to believe that there is a hell.

I personally do not believe that the Bible has anything to do with any God.

It's clearly just superstitious nonsense written by truly ignorant people, IMHO.

The Bible and the Qur'an are, IMHO, both utterly ignorant, and stupid.

Care to explain why you feel that way?

I've read the Bible, and that's precisely why believe that it is utterly ignorant and stupid.

I confess that I haven't read the entire Qu'ran, but I've seen enough excerpts from it to recognize that it's just a spin-off from the same underlying myths.

By the way, I recognize too that the entire Arbrahamic myths of the Hebrews are actually a spin-off of Greek mythology. So I see no reason to give Hebrew mythology anymore merit than I give to Greek mythology.

Therefore there is no sane reason that I would believe they could have anything to do with a supposedly all-wise God.

Why? What is wrong with a Being who created you and gave you life and came down among people to voluntarily teach us and suffer and die for us, so we could accept His mercy and put our faith in Him and follow Him, and after death enter Paradise?

Such a being would be an idiot precisely because this story does not impress me in the least. On the contrary I find it highly disgusting.

Surely an omniscient creator who supposedly created me would know that I would find this to be totally ignorant story.

You're basically asking me to believe that my creator is truly ignorant of even concerning how I think.

If there is a God associated with those myths he would be the stupidest entity that ever existed.

What makes you say that?

Because having a bunch of Jewish priests calling for the crucifixion of Jesus is utterly stupid. Yet that would have had to have been God's plan in this religion.

Think about it.

God commands these Jews to kill anyone who blasphemes against his word. Then he sends Jesus into this very same crowd to blaspheme against his word.

How utterly stupid is that?

And then the Jews call for Jesus' crucifixion just as God had instructed them to do.

All they were doing was obeying this utterly stupid God.

This God would be the epitome of stupidity.

I can't imagine writing a more absurd story myself.

For me to even consider that the Bible could be a correct picture of a God would be an insult to any actual God that might exist.

Why? What would an 'actual God that might exist' be like, according to you?

Well for one thing it would act intelligent and wise. I don't see that in either the Bible or the Qur'an.

Hitler didn't create life. He didn't offer mercy to all who were willing to follow him. He can't offer salvation, nor did he teach people how to love their neighbours. He didn't perform miracles. He didn't die for humanity on the cross. He didn't rise from the dead.

Comparing Hitler to God is ludicrous, in my opinion.

You are comparing Hitler to Jesus, not to God.

Let's compare God and Hitler.

They are both fascist dictators who demand to be obeyed lest they'll hurt someone.

They are both known to throw people they don't like into fiery furnaces.

That's close enough, IMHO.

So renouncing all these hateful Abrahamic myths is the only decent thing to do.

Let's assume that Islam, Judaism and Christianity are "hateful". BTW as a Christian, I believe that Islam and Judaism are not from God, though they contain some truth in then. They are not however "hateful".

But for the sake of argument, let's assume you are right. What would you replace them with?

I personally feel that Taoism is the probably the most sane and reasonable mystical philosophy that mankind has ever created.

If life is mystical, Taoism is most likely to be the closest to truth.

If you're just interested in moral values I would recommend Buddha. I'm convince that this was where Jesus got his moral ideas. Clearly Jesus did not agree with the immorality taught in the Old Testament.

And if there is an actual God I'm sure She will be very pleased that I did not insult Her by suggesting that I thought She was a jealous egotistical male-chauvinistic pig who hates homosexuals, etc.

What would "she" be like, according to you?

Well to begin with She would be truly wise and truly intelligent.

What proof do you have that the god you describe exists?

I don't have any proof at all. In fact, I don't even know that She does exist. If Taoism is true, I am Her. Kind of like Jesus said, "I and the Father are One".

I'm sure he used the term "Father" to suit the expectations of his culture.

I actually don't believe that God has gender. God is spirit, and I am spirit. So like Jesus, I and God are one.

If you don't have proof of the existence of a deity or God, then what do you base your life on?

I base my life on TRUTH.

And the truth is that I cannot know the truth nature of reality.

I can see that the Abrahamic myths are clearly bogus, just as we can all see that the Greek myths were bogus.

So I can know when myths are false.

I can't rule out Taoism. So it may be true. But I can't exactly rule it in either. Although I do have very solid reasons for believing that it may very well be true.

I do feel that I can rule out atheism to some degree, but I can't be absolutely certain of that either.

My currently leaning is Taoism. I can't imagine anything trumping it.

But my ultimate belief is in TRUTH.

And its is absolutely true that I could never believe in any of the Abrahamic myths including Christianity.

And because this is a TRUTH that I cannot believe these myths, then if the God of those myths were true He would necessarily need to condemn me for merely being honest and speaking TRUTH.

So that's pretty much the final nail in the Abrahamic coffin.

The Abrahamic God would need to condemn me for merely telling the TRUTH.

And you can't find a greater oxymoron that this.

So the Abrahamic myths cannot possibly be true. They are necessarily false. My TRUTH is proof positive that they are indeed false.

[TG123]

To get to hell, you need to choose to disregard what God says, which is revealed in the Bible.

To get to hell I would first need to believe that there is a hell.

What makes you say that? If I am at the zoo and climb into the bear pit because according to me, bears are playful and would never harm a person, does that make it so? Would believing that car crashes are harmless mean that if I ran one full speed into another vehicle, no one would get hurt?

How would lack of faith in something make it not real?

I personally do not believe that the Bible has anything to do with any God.

It's clearly just superstitious nonsense written by truly ignorant people, IMHO.

Care to back up these claims? Please feel free to show some examples.

The Bible and the Qur'an are, IMHO, both utterly ignorant, and stupid.

Care to explain why you feel that way?

I've read the Bible, and that's precisely why believe that it is utterly ignorant and stupid.

I confess that I haven't read the entire Qu'ran, but I've seen enough excerpts from it to recognize that it's just a spin-off from the same underlying myths.

What in the Bible makes you believe it is "utterly ignorant and stupid"? Which parts of the Quran have you read?

By the way, I recognize too that the entire Arbrahamic myths of the Hebrews are actually a spin-off of Greek mythology. So I see no reason to give Hebrew mythology anymore merit than I give to Greek mythology.

How do you know they are a spin-off?

Therefore there is no sane reason that I would believe they could have anything to do with a supposedly all-wise God.

Why? What is wrong with a Being who created you and gave you life and came down among people to voluntarily teach us and suffer and die for us, so we could accept His mercy and put our faith in Him and follow Him, and after death enter Paradise?

Such a being would be an idiot precisely because this story does not impress me in the least. On the contrary I find it highly disgusting.

Surely an omniscient creator who supposedly created me would know that I would find this to be totally ignorant story.

You're basically asking me to believe that my creator is truly ignorant of even concerning how I think.

Why would His greatness be affected by how you view Him? If I am writing a math test and believe that the Pythagoras Theorem is utter nonsense and I can find the hypotenuse just by adding the 2 other sides and multiplying the sum by 666, does that make Pythagoras an idiot?

Also, what makes you think God doesn't know how you think?

If there is a God associated with those myths he would be the stupidest entity that ever existed.

What makes you say that?

Because having a bunch of Jewish priests calling for the crucifixion of Jesus is utterly stupid. Yet that would have had to have been God's plan in this religion.

Think about it.

God commands these Jews to kill anyone who blasphemes against his word. Then he sends Jesus into this very same crowd to blaspheme against his word.

How utterly stupid is that?

And then the Jews call for Jesus' crucifixion just as God had instructed them to do.

All they were doing was obeying this utterly stupid God.

This God would be the epitome of stupidity.

I can't imagine writing a more absurd story myself.

The pharisees were not following the Law, to begin with. The crucifixion was God's plan, so that people could find salvation in Him by putting their faith in Him. The Father did not instruct the Jewish leaders to have Jesus crucified, neither did Jesus or the Holy Spirit. So I don't see what makes you state God ordered them to crucify Him.

For me to even consider that the Bible could be a correct picture of a God would be an insult to any actual God that might exist.

Why? What would an 'actual God that might exist' be like, according to you?

Well for one thing it would act intelligent and wise. I don't see that in either the Bible or the Qur'an.

Define what you understand by the words "intelligent" and "wise".

Hitler didn't create life. He didn't offer mercy to all who were willing to follow him. He can't offer salvation, nor did he teach people how to love their neighbours. He didn't perform miracles. He didn't die for humanity on the cross. He didn't rise from the dead.

Comparing Hitler to God is ludicrous, in my opinion.

You are comparing Hitler to Jesus, not to God.

Let's compare God and Hitler.

As the Bible teaches, Jesus is God.

They are both fascist dictators who demand to be obeyed lest they'll hurt someone.

Sure, you can say that. The same is true of a lawmaker who passes rules regarding speeding.

The difference between Hitler and God is that those who follow God will end up in Paradise, and if one follows Him, one will be kind and loving to everyone, even their enemies. National Socialism doesn't really inspire people to do that.

They are both known to throw people they don't like into fiery furnaces.

Unlike Hitler, God loves every human being and gives us all a lifetime to get to know Him. Most people who entered Dachau were not given a choice of whether they could follow Hitler or not. Everyone who will enter Hell had the choice in life of following God or not following Him.

That's close enough, IMHO.

There are significant differences between God and Hitler, even in your comparisons.

So renouncing all these hateful Abrahamic myths is the only decent thing to do.

Let's assume that Islam, Judaism and Christianity are "hateful". BTW as a Christian, I believe that Islam and Judaism are not from God, though they contain some truth in then. They are not however "hateful".

But for the sake of argument, let's assume you are right. What would you replace them with?

I personally feel that Taoism is the probably the most sane and reasonable mystical philosophy that mankind has ever created.

What makes it so sane and reasonable? Why settle for something that mankind created?

If life is mystical, Taoism is most likely to be the closest to truth.

How so?

If you're just interested in moral values I would recommend Buddha. I'm convince that this was where Jesus got his moral ideas. Clearly Jesus did not agree with the immorality taught in the Old Testament.

I learned a bit about Buddhism, as a kid my family had some Buddhist friends and I went to the house of my friend's, whose mom was a Buddhist leader in their temple and she gave us religious instruction. I have to confess I don't remember much. I remember that it teaches adherents to respect all life and that meditation is a good thing, and that the law of karma teaches that we are reborn again and again until we reach Nirvana (which if I remember correctly is nothingness). Our good actions will mean we will leave good lives in the future in our next lives, and evil actions that we will suffer for them in the future in our next lives. People who are well off today we were taught were good people in their past lives, and people who are not were bad people in their past lives.

Why do you think Jesus got His moral ideas from Buddhism? What makes you think He disagreed with the "immorality" taught in the Old Testament?

And if there is an actual God I'm sure She will be very pleased that I did not insult Her by suggesting that I thought She was a jealous egotistical male-chauvinistic pig who hates homosexuals, etc.

What would "she" be like, according to you?

Well to begin with She would be truly wise and truly intelligent.

Please define what you understand by these words.
What proof do you have that the god you describe exists?

I don't have any proof at all. In fact, I don't even know that She does exist.

If she doesn't exist, where does that leave you?

If Taoism is true, I am Her. Kind of like Jesus said, "I and the Father are One".

At the moment I have not done any research into Taoism, so I can't comment further on it. When Jesus said that He and the Father are one, He meant He and the Father are God. God exists as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

I'm sure he used the term "Father" to suit the expectations of his culture.

Jesus did a lot of things that utterly ticked people off in His culture. Breaking the Sabbath, advocating love for enemies, praising non-Israelites. I don't think He used the term "Father" to suit anyone's expectations. If anything, He was good at constantly defying them.

I actually don't believe that God has gender. God is spirit, and I am spirit. So like Jesus, I and God are one.

What makes you think you and God are one? Jesus said many things that implies He is God, and accepted worship. Do you believe you are God?

If you don't have proof of the existence of a deity or God, then what do you base your life on?

I base my life on TRUTH.

And the truth is that I cannot know the truth nature of reality.

If your truth means you don't know the nature nature of reality, no offense at all intended to you, but what good is it?

I can see that the Abrahamic myths are clearly bogus, just as we can all see that the Greek myths were bogus.

So I can know when myths are false.

How do you know the Abrahamic "myths" are bogus?

I can't rule out Taoism. So it may be true. But I can't exactly rule it in either. Although I do have very solid reasons for believing that it may very well be true.

I don't know anything about Taoism, so I will have to do some research before I can respond further on this topic.

I do feel that I can rule out atheism to some degree, but I can't be absolutely certain of that either.

I hope that you do rule it out. God definitely exists.

My currently leaning is Taoism. I can't imagine anything trumping it.

See above.

But my ultimate belief is in TRUTH.

Yet this truth doesn't inform you of what you call "the nature of reality". What are the benefits to the truth that you have?

And its is absolutely true that I could never believe in any of the Abrahamic myths including Christianity.

And because this is a TRUTH that I cannot believe these myths, then if the God of those myths were true He would necessarily need to condemn me for merely being honest and speaking TRUTH.

So that's pretty much the final nail in the Abrahamic coffin.

The Abrahamic God would need to condemn me for merely telling the TRUTH.

And you can't find a greater oxymoron that this.

So the Abrahamic myths cannot possibly be true. They are necessarily false. My TRUTH is proof positive that they are indeed false.

What if your truth is false? If God has the truth and you have false beliefs and ideas and you on top of that reject His truth, then He wouldn't be condemning you for telling the truth, but for believing in and propagating lies.

This is a great discussion. I am going to bed now but look forward to continuing it.

Take care.

[Divine Insight]

I don't know anything about Taoism, so I will have to do some research before I can respond further on this topic.

It's not something you can just quickly look up and think you understand it. For one thing there are many different perspectives on Taoism so if you look it up there is no guarantee that what you will find will necessarily reflect how I understand it.

What makes it so sane and reasonable? Why settle for something that mankind created?

All religions are based on faith. All religions were created by man.

If you are under the delusion that Hebrew mythology is actually the word of God then there's no point in conversing with you further since you have clearly accepted a lie without sufficient evidence.

I personally do not believe that the Bible has anything to do with any God.

It's clearly just superstitious nonsense written by truly ignorant people, IMHO.

Care to back up these claims? Please feel free to show some examples.

The entire Bible is a pretty good example. But if you're seeking specific examples of ignorance and stupidity here you go:

Genesis 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

This is how this mythological biblical God supposedly dealt with an evil serpent that he allowed to roam freely in the garden of Eden.

He supposedly cursed it to crawl on its belly and eat dirt for the rest of the day of its life.

IMHO, this is an absolute stupid curse that served no productive purpose at all. Moreover, it clearly didn't even work because this is happening in Genesis chapter 3, yet this evil serpent continues to beguile mankind to this very day. So not only is this a stupid myth, but it's clearly a false myth as well. No genuinely intelligent God could be this stupid.

Also, this same God is said to have done the following:

Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

What? The creator of life is going to use procreation as a curse?

This is clearly nonsense.

Who wants Eve to have children anyway? It's this God who expects Eve to procreate and now he's using procreation as a curse. If I Eve had half a brain she would have told this mythological God to go jump in the lake and simply say, "Fine, I won't have any more children anymore if that's the way you want to be."

The authors of these fables weren't even as intelligent as a woman, much less intelligent enough to be speaking for a God. This has to be the stupidest curse anyone could have ever come up with.

Moreover, did it even serve and constructive or productive purpose?

Clearly not. According to the Bible women continued to sin against God so much so that God finally had to drown most of humanity in a Great Flood. So clearly this curse was totally useless and served no purpose at all. Just like the uselessness of the curse this God put onto the evil serpent who also continued to corrupt mankind clear up to the Great Flood.

Speaking of the Great Flood. Did that solve any problems? No. Again nothing this God ever does ever solves a problem. Men and women both continued to sin against this mythological God all the way up to the New Testament.

At this point this same fictional God character clearly became extremely desperate. So desperate that he had to sacrifice his only begotten son to the evil serpent named Satan in an effort to appease Satan and try to buy some human souls.

Clearly this mythological God had been losing souls to Satan all the while as the Great Flood story clearly shows.

So this God sacrifices his only begotten son in an act of desperation. But even this doesn't work. Mankind continues to sin against this God to this very day. Nothing this God has ever done has ever worked.

This has to be the stupidest collection of superstitious myths ever created by mankind. No actual God could be this stupid.

Also, consider this. When God asked Eve what had happened in the Garden of Eden Eve confessed everything. She confessed everything to God just as she is supposed to do according to this religion. She even turned in the evil serpent and and testified against him. She confessed that she had been beguiled.

Moreover, and truly intelligent God would have realized that before Eve ate this fruit of the knowledge of good and evil she could not have understood what evil was. So Eve could not have chosen to sin against God deliberately.

But whoever wrote these superstitious fables wasn't smart enough to realize this evidently.

Eve confess her sins and turned in all the guilty parties. She should have been forgiven on the spot and taken straight to Seventh Heaven. To curse her at that point would be nothing but pure stupidity on the part of any truly righteous wise God. But the bible claims that God did curse her. So clearly the Bible is false.

No God could be that stupid and still have managed to have created this universe.

~~~~

The list goes on and on and on. Just about every story in the Biblical canon is equally stupid IMHO.

~~~~~

What if your truth is false?

My truth can't be false because it is indeed the truth.

The truth is that I do not believe these biblical stories because to me they are the stupidest stories I've ever heard.

That's the truth. There's no getting around it. It's simply the truth.

If God has the truth and you have false beliefs and ideas and you on top of that reject His truth, then He wouldn't be condemning you for telling the truth, but for believing in and propagating lies.

I'm sorry, but IMHO what you just said here strikes me to be as stupid as the Bible.

If there truly is a genuinely all-wise and all-intelligent God, then this God would not blame me for thinking that the Bible is stupid. On the contrary, an all-wise God would fully understand why I am convinced that these stories are utterly absurd.

A truly all-wise God would do something to remedy the situation.

After all, only the God could clear things up. It's totally beyond my abilities to do that. An all-powerful omniscient God is the only one who can clear things up. Therefore the responsibly to do this lies with him, not with me. There is nothing I can do to make a stupid bible sound intelligent.

Even apologists confess that they have difficulties with parts of the Bible and they simply have faith that God will explain himself to them when they get to heaven.

Well, I would prefer that the God explain himself to me right now. Otherwise I see no reason to give Hebrew mythology anymore credit than Greek mythology.

So my truth is rock solid truth. I cannot be mistaken.

~~~~~

Let me ask you something:

Do you believe in the Greek myths of Zeus and Apollo?

If not, why not?

And don't you think that Zeus should hold you responsible for not believing in Greek mythology? According to your way of thinking, you deserve to be condemned for not believing in Zeus.

Christianity (and all the Abrahamic religions) are so utterly absurd that there is no way I could ever believe that they are true. Our creator would need to be so extremely stupid that I simply cannot even imagine a God that stupid.

And why even bother to try? Just to avoid a superstitious idle threat that I'll be damned if I fail to believe.

I'm not that gullible.

Think about it as a matter of Faith.

Would I even want to place my faith in a myth that demands that my creator is dumber than a barroom drunkard?

No, I would not want to place my faith in that.

Would I want to place my faith in the idea that I am at odds with my creator and that I have turned against him and I am in dire need to get back in good with him, and that he even had to have his only begotten son butchered on a pole to make it possible for me to get back in good with him?

No, I most certainly wouldn't want to believe that on pure faith.

In fact, I would much rather have faith that the whole biblical fable is utter nonsense. So I'm happy that it does indeed appear to be nonsense to me because that makes it easy to also have faith that it is indeed nonsense.

And like I say, I must go with TRUTH.

And it is indeed true that the bible is utterly stupid IMHO.

So there you go.

You can't go wrong with TRUTH.

[TG123]

I don't know anything about Taoism, so I will have to do some research before I can respond further on this topic.

It's not something you can just quickly look up and think you understand it. For one thing there are many different perspectives on Taoism so if you look it up there is no guarantee that what you will find will necessarily reflect how I understand it.

Fair enough. To save us time and lack of misunderstanding then, why don't you summarize your understanding of this religion and its teachings, and explain to me why you think it closest to the truth?

What makes it so sane and reasonable? Why settle for something that mankind created?

All religions are based on faith. All religions were created by man.

Prove it.

If you are under the delusion that Hebrew mythology is actually the word of God then there's no point in conversing with you further since you have clearly accepted a lie without sufficient evidence.

I do believe that the Bible if the word of God. You can choose to continue this conversation or pull out, it is your choice. Either way, I stand by my beliefs and have seen nothing from you thus far that would even come close to presenting a strong argument against them.

I personally do not believe that the Bible has anything to do with any God.

It's clearly just superstitious nonsense written by truly ignorant people, IMHO.

Care to back up these claims? Please feel free to show some examples.

The entire Bible is a pretty good example. But if you're seeking specific examples of ignorance and stupidity here you go:

Genesis 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

This is how this mythological biblical God supposedly dealt with an evil serpent that he allowed to roam freely in the garden of Eden.

He supposedly cursed it to crawl on its belly and eat dirt for the rest of the day of its life.

IMHO, this is an absolute stupid curse that served no productive purpose at all. Moreover, it clearly didn't even work because this is happening in Genesis chapter 3, yet this evil serpent continues to beguile mankind to this very day. So not only is this a stupid myth, but it's clearly a false myth as well. No genuinely intelligent God could be this stupid.

What do you mean, "it didn't work"? God never stated anywhere in the Bible that the objective of the curse was to stop Satan from tempting people.

The site "answers in Genesis" isn't one which I wholeheartedly endorse, as there are some articles on there with which I disagree. However, they do a good job in discussing the possible point of the curse.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/article ... arden-eden

Crawling on one's belly is a symbol of lowliness and degradation, this is what Satan and those who followed him will face in eternity. A snake is symbolic of that.

Also, this same God is said to have done the following:

Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

What? The creator of life is going to use procreation as a curse?

This is clearly nonsense.

Who wants Eve to have children anyway? It's this God who expects Eve to procreate and now he's using procreation as a curse. If I Eve had half a brain she would have told this mythological God to go jump in the lake and simply say, "Fine, I won't have any more children anymore if that's the way you want to be."

The Creator of like doesn't use procreation as a curse, He uses the pain that it entails as a curse. Perhaps Eve, like many other women across the world, wanted to have children. God in Genesis 1:28 told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and replenish the earth. There is no suggestion that Adam and Eve didn't want to do this.
Genesis 4:4 suggests that Eve wanted to have children.

Genesis 4:4
Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, saying, “I have gotten[a] a man with the help of the Lord.�
If God helped her do something, obviously she wanted it done.

The authors of these fables weren't even as intelligent as a woman, much less intelligent enough to be speaking for a God. This has to be the stupidest curse anyone could have ever come up with.

You are implying that Eve didn't want to have children. This is not backed up by evidence.

Moreover, did it even serve and constructive or productive purpose?

Clearly not. According to the Bible women continued to sin against God so much so that God finally had to drown most of humanity in a Great Flood. So clearly this curse was totally useless and served no purpose at all. Just like the uselessness of the curse this God put onto the evil serpent who also continued to corrupt mankind clear up to the Great Flood.

According to the Bible, both men and women and fallen angels continued to sin against God, so He sent a flood and wiped out all life on earth.
Neither the curse on Eve or on Adam or on the serpent was intended to stop the whole world from sinning.

Speaking of the Great Flood. Did that solve any problems? No. Again nothing this God ever does ever solves a problem. Men and women both continued to sin against this mythological God all the way up to the New Testament.

The Great Flood was intended to wipe out all the life on earth except Moses and his family, since they were the only ones who were following God. It was a success. God has promised humanity He will never flood the earth again. We can either live in sin (defined as doing things He does not want us to do and not doing things He wants us to do) or put our faith in Him do our best to follow Him. Doing the first will land us in hell, the second will land us in Heaven.

At this point this same fictional God character clearly became extremely desperate. So desperate that he had to sacrifice his only begotten son to the evil serpent named Satan in an effort to appease Satan and try to buy some human souls.

Where does it say that Jesus' sacrifice on the cross had anything to do with 'appeasing Satan'?

Clearly this mythological God had been losing souls to Satan all the while as the Great Flood story clearly shows.

God doesn't "lose souls". We are the ones who can choose to follow Him or not. By not following Him, we lose our salvation. God does not want us to go to hell, but it is our choice in the end.

So this God sacrifices his only begotten son in an act of desperation. But even this doesn't work. Mankind continues to sin against this God to this very day. Nothing this God has ever done has ever worked.

Show me where God the Father or God the Son or God the Holy Spirit were desperate to Satan. The sacrifice on the cross wasn't intended that people should never sin again. It's purpose was that people who put their faith in Jesus do not have to go to hell, because our sins have been washed away by His blood if we believe in Him and follow Him.

This has to be the stupidest collection of superstitious myths ever created by mankind. No actual God could be this stupid.

Stupid according to you, maybe. You make assumptions about God that aren't true, and then laugh at Him based on these assumptions.

Also, consider this. When God asked Eve what had happened in the Garden of Eden Eve confessed everything. She confessed everything to God just as she is supposed to do according to this religion. She even turned in the evil serpent and and testified against him. She confessed that she had been beguiled.

She confessed her sin, but she and Adam tried hiding from God first. God did not send Eve to hell eternally for her sin, or Adam. He did punish them, yes. However, He also provided for them with clothing when He had them leave the Garden. He also helped Eve conceive a son. It isn't mentioned in the Bible but is pretty obvious to me that He kept providing for them outside of the Garden, since His creation was still obviously there for them to use (ie food, the soil, etc).

Moreover, and truly intelligent God would have realized that before Eve ate this fruit of the knowledge of good and evil she could not have understood what evil was. So Eve could not have chosen to sin against God deliberately.

Eve and Adam were told not to eat from the tree, and that if they did so, they would die. They knew that God didn't want them to eat from the tree, and that there would be a negative consequence. In spite of this, they ate from it. So they did sin against Him deliberately, even if they didn't understand the full ramifications.

But whoever wrote these superstitious fables wasn't smart enough to realize this evidently.

Your summary of the events so far in the Garden of Eden ignores that Adam and Eve were informed that they should not eat from the tree (therefore they disobeyed God deliberately) and that while He punished them, He continued to provide for them.

Eve confess her sins and turned in all the guilty parties. She should have been forgiven on the spot and taken straight to Seventh Heaven. To curse her at that point would be nothing but pure stupidity on the part of any truly righteous wise God. But the bible claims that God did curse her. So clearly the Bible is false.

Why should she have been taken to the highest heaven for confessing? Let's say that I choose to steal a car while intoxicated and while driving it, I accidentally ram into a pedestrian and kill him. I get arrested, and at the trial confess what I did. Is the judge obliged to not only punish me, but give me a monetary reward for my honesty?
Let's say I do go to prison. While I am behind bars, while I have lost my freedom for a while and will have a criminal record for the rest of my life, I do get food, a place to sleep, water, clothing, hopefully counseling for my drinking problem... though I can refuse to enter in it of course. Was the judge being an unfair and idiotic jerk for sending me to prison? Would the moral thing to have done was to let me off free with a pat on the back and some extra $$$?

Your criticism against God for punishing Eve while at the same time providing for her makes no sense to me.

No God could be that stupid and still have managed to have created this universe.

His actions seem stupid to you, but I doubt the judge in the scenario I presented above would.
God did however create the universe, whether you see Him as "stupid" or not. Are you capable of creating the world, or any non-human life (or even human life, without someone's assistance)?
~~~~

The list goes on and on and on. Just about every story in the Biblical canon is equally stupid IMHO.

So far you've done nothing to present their "stupidity".
~~~~~

What if your truth is false?

My truth can't be false because it is indeed the truth.

The truth is that I do not believe these biblical stories because to me they are the stupidest stories I've ever heard.

That's the truth. There's no getting around it. It's simply the truth.

You wrote: "I base my life on TRUTH". And you define "TRUTH" as "I do not believe these biblical stories because to me they are the stupidest stories I've ever heard". So in other words, you base your life on the belief that the Biblical stories aren't true. That's all you have? I find that a bit sad, actually.
What do you have that Joseph Stalin or Christopher Hitchens or Osama bin Laden or Jeffrey Dahmer didn't have?

If God has the truth and you have false beliefs and ideas and you on top of that reject His truth, then He wouldn't be condemning you for telling the truth, but for believing in and propagating lies.

I'm sorry, but IMHO what you just said here strikes me to be as stupid as the Bible.

That's OK, I don't get offended very easily. Your attacks on the Bible thus far seem pretty stupid to me and reflect more of a lack of understanding of the content than anything else. I'll pray that God opens your eyes to the Truth.

If there truly is a genuinely all-wise and all-intelligent God, then this God would not blame me for thinking that the Bible is stupid. On the contrary, an all-wise God would fully understand why I am convinced that these stories are utterly absurd.

You have yet to convince me that any of the stories we have examined so far is "absurd".

A truly all-wise God would do something to remedy the situation.

He did. He gave you the Bible and he gave you intellect which you will hopefully use to read the Bible in its entirety and understand what it actually says. Hopefully the world around you that is outside of the Bible with all its evidence will also guide you to Scripture. A good place to start would be to ask how everything around us came to be.

After all, only the God could clear things up. It's totally beyond my abilities to do that. An all-powerful omniscient God is the only one who can clear things up. Therefore the responsibly to do this lies with him, not with me. There is nothing I can do to make a stupid bible sound intelligent.

You are making the assumption that you need to understand something or have someone "clear it up" for you in order to accept it. I have no idea if gravity was always with us, what would it look like in another galaxy, will it always be with us, etc. I can believe in its existence though without understanding and knowing everything there is to understand and know about it.

Even apologists confess that they have difficulties with parts of the Bible and they simply have faith that God will explain himself to them when they get to heaven.

Well, I would prefer that the God explain himself to me right now.

Why would God be obliged to subject Himself to your preferences?

Otherwise I see no reason to give Hebrew mythology anymore credit than Greek mythology.

How do you know Greek mythology is false?

So my truth is rock solid truth. I cannot be mistaken.

You cannot be mistaken that you don't believe in what the Bible teaches. OK. If I reject that gravity exists and define "truth" in my life as my refusal to acknowlege its existence, ok, that's my definition. It may be true that you don't believe in God as the Bible reveals Him and I don't believe that gravity exists. It doesn't however mean that neither God nor gravity are real.

Let me ask you something:

Do you believe in the Greek myths of Zeus and Apollo?

If not, why not?

And don't you think that Zeus should hold you responsible for not believing in Greek mythology? According to your way of thinking, you deserve to be condemned for not believing in Zeus.

I don't know that much about Greek mythology but I believe that the God of the Bible is the only true God, so I would reject Zeus and Apollo. I am sure that if I knew more about Ancient Greek religion, I would find more evidence that it is not true.

Christianity (and all the Abrahamic religions) are so utterly absurd that there is no way I could ever believe that they are true. Our creator would need to be so extremely stupid that I simply cannot even imagine a God that stupid.

So far all of your examples from the Bible reveal false assumptions and the idea that God thinks the way you do. They don't prove that He is "stupid".

And why even bother to try? Just to avoid a superstitious idle threat that I'll be damned if I fail to believe.

I'm not that gullible.

So what do you believe in? If you base your life on your belief that Christianity is false, that is one of the most shallow belief systems I have ever heard of.

Think about it as a matter of Faith.

Would I even want to place my faith in a myth that demands that my creator is dumber than a barroom drunkard?

You haven't proved He is "dumb".

No, I would not want to place my faith in that.

I wouldn't either, but you haven't proved that God is dumb or stupid.

Would I want to place my faith in the idea that I am at odds with my creator and that I have turned against him and I am in dire need to get back in good with him, and that he even had to have his only begotten son butchered on a pole to make it possible for me to get back in good with him?

No, I most certainly wouldn't want to believe that on pure faith.

Why not? What is an alternative?

In fact, I would much rather have faith that the whole biblical fable is utter nonsense. So I'm happy that it does indeed appear to be nonsense to me because that makes it easy to also have faith that it is indeed nonsense.

Well, Stalin and Dahmer and Hitchens as well as other people of that type also had faith that the Bible is nonsense, and look where it got them.

And like I say, I must go with TRUTH.

Which, according to your definition of it, is an extremely shallow view.

And it is indeed true that the bible is utterly stupid IMHO.

You haven't provided any evidence to back up your assertion.

So there you go.

Feel free to try again.

You can't go wrong with TRUTH.

Agreed. And hopefully one day, you will come to know God, who offers it to you.

[A Troubled Man]

Strange !!!

Allah says about himself : I am the most merciful . and I presented the sayings of
Allah about himself . then someone said : no he is not merciful !

Obviously Allah, like so many other despots will say that about themselves, but will act in direct opposition to it, just like those qualifiers make evident.

Do you want to make Hitler or any killer like Jesus or Moses or Mohammad or any prophet .

Do you want to make the people who raised the flag of enmity against Allah like the people who worship Allah .

Who will revenge and return the rights of the Weak and oppressed people from the evil people except Allah ?

Gibberish. None of that has anything to do with Allah being cruel and malicious.

Think about yourself ,
Allah will not ask you about the wars in the world .
Allah will not ask you about the sick people .
Allah will not ask you about the troubles around the world .
Allah will not ask you about your shape your skin color your.
He will ask you about yourself . about your deeds and sayings

But, we will ask Allah why He acts so cruel and malicious and lies about being merciful.