Allah is the most merciful .

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steps
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Allah is the most merciful .

Post #1

Post by steps »

Allah is facing our weaken by his mercifulness, our sins by his forgiveness , our small deeds by his generosity . but all of that must be under one condition : NO god but Allah . no partners beside him .

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “I swear by Him in whose hand is my soul, if you were a people who did not commit sin, Allah would take you away and replace you with a people who would sin and then seek Allah’s forgiveness so He could forgive them.� [Sahīh Muslim (2687)]


Allah already has a creation which is sinless. He has the angels who “never disobey Allah in what He commands them and carry out whatever they are told to do.� [Surah al-Tahrim: 6] they glorify Allah without fail. Some arer standing in prayer, some are bowing, and some are in prostration saying: “Glory be to the the possessor of the dominion and its possessions! Glory be to the possessor of might and irresistible power. Glory be to the Living One who never dies!�

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “I see and hear what you do not. The heavens heaved, and they have a right to do so, since there is not a place the width of a handspan that is not occupied by an angel prostrating his forehead to Allah.� [Sunan al-Tirmidhi (2312) and Sunan Ibn Majah (4190)]

In spite of all this, Allah in His wisdom wanted to create beings besides the angels – human beings who would need to be guided to the proper path and who were capable of going astray. Allah says: “Lo! We have shown him the way, whether he be grateful or disbelieving.� [Surah al-Insan: 3]

This is the nature upon which Allah created the human being. It is unavoidable that people will err. Therefore Allah has permitted us to ask His forgiveness. Indeed, He exhorts us to do so, and He promises us His forgiveness.

We should make it a habit to seek Allah’s forgiveness as often as we can. Constancy in beseeching forgiveness is a cure for the maladies of the heart as well as a means of having our sins erased.

prophet Mohammad peace be upon him said : [ “Verily, Allah created mercy; on the day He created it, He made it into one hundred parts. He kept with Him ninety-nine parts, and sent one part to all His creatures. Had the disbeliever known the mercy which is in the hands of Allah, he would not lose hope of entering Paradise, and had the believer known the punishment which is with Allah, he would not consider himself safe from the Hellfire.�]

A Troubled Man
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Post #41

Post by A Troubled Man »

steps wrote:
A Troubled Man wrote:
steps wrote:
2- the unbelievers of Allah : or the followers of the devil , each time they defeat by the believers , then the devil comes to them with a new dress and promises them and creates in them false desires .
Your holy book is teaching you lies. Non-believers of Islam are not following any devils and are not being defeated by you or your religion.

You accomplish nothing more than to provide more and more evidence to reject Islam.

[ 53. Soon will We show them our Signs in the (furthest) regions (of the earth), and in their own souls, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the Truth. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things?] surah 41


Quran Vs. Lawrence Krauss and "A Universe From Nothing"

[youtube][/youtube]

[6. Say: "The (Qur'an) was sent down by Him who knows the mystery (that is) in the heavens and the earth: verily He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."] Surah 25

do you need more proofs ? at your service . just to know the lies from your side .
and we are helping you
What proofs? All I saw was a video in which the Quran was being compared to Krauss' hypothesis regarding the origins of the universe. Unfortunately, nothing in the Quran supports any scientific theory.

You're not helping at all, you're doing a great disservice.

steps
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Post #42

Post by steps »

Divine Insight wrote: Why is Allah such a bitter hateful God who lust to control people?

What were his parents like? Or was he an orphaned God? Did his parents abandon him? Maybe that's why he's so angry and hateful toward people who don't worship him?

Does Allah have a wife?

Surely every religion has a balance of yin an yang?

If Allah has no wife, that too could explain why he's such a grumpy hateful God.

I'll pray for your Allah that he may be healed from his obsession with hate, anger, and jealousy.

Perhaps Zeus, the God of Gods could help Allah find a decent Goddess wife?

I'll pray to Zeus that Allah may be healed. ;)

That's the best I can do to help your Allah out.

It's in the hands of Zeus now. O:)

1- your thinking depends on the comparing which judge on thing by the Laws of a different thing , you mixed the attributes of the creation [ the universe ] and the creator [ ALLAH ] .
so you became like the puppets that move by strings , thinking that the human is moving by strings and everything is moving by strings also . you want to apply the Laws of creations on the creator of these Laws and the creations . how ? all these Laws have been created to organize and to arrange the life on this system [ the universe] . and he is above the laws of this system . there is no laws can control him , he controls all laws ((yet these (are the men) who (dare to) dispute about Allah, with the strength of His power (supreme)! )) .

2- our senses pick the events , the experiences . also what we see .then record them in our brains to become concepts and images . so when a new meaning comes to us , we will measure it depending on what we have in our brains .

for example :when we say : ALLAH is merciful … we have the meaning of mercifulness recorded in our brains . but the believers increase by adding no comparing between the mercifulness of ALLAH and the mercifulness of creatures , he is : (( nothing like him )) . it means we have this image in our brains before .

but when we say : ALLAH is the first nothing before him , here where is the disarrangement begin . because the image of [ the first and nothing before him is not our brains ] …. and Because we mixed between the images in our brains and the prudence . and there is a rule says : (( if we cannot imagine a thing does not necessitate that this thing is not existent )) , in other meaning : the atheists disabled the prudence because you were unable to imagine God or the first and nothing before him . to explain it more :

you are sitting with your family , then door's bell has been rung . you and your family will realize [the prudence ] that a person rung the door but you are different will be about the person behind the door [ guest , male , female , adult , teen , policeman ,………………] .

another example : the speed of waves that make the violet color is 60000 waves per inch . the speed of sound's vibrations is 500000 vibration per one second . it is impossible to imagine these waves or vibrations in this small area / time . but you realize by [ the prudence ] and through the mathematical methods ..

which means the impossibility of the imagining does not disable the prudence . and here where the big lies of atheists expose : they accepted the existence of Gravity , waves , ….. through the prudence and the effects of Gravity and waves on things , but they want to disable this part when the matter about God . the amazing universe was not enough . the perfect rules that control the universe were not enough . the beauty of the universe was not enough . the creation of human and his miraculous brain was not enough . to realize that there is a wise creator behind this universe .

3- ALLAH is : ((Allah. There is no god but He,-the Living, the Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him nor sleep ))

ALLAH is : ((38. We created the heavens and the earth and all between them in Six Days, nor did any sense of weariness touch Us. ))

ALLAH is : ((1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; 2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; 3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; 4. And there is none like unto Him. ))

ALLAH is : ((11. (He is) the Creator of the heavens and the earth: He has made for you pairs from among yourselves, and pairs among cattle: by this means does He multiply you: there is nothing whatever like unto Him, and He is the One that hears and sees (all things). ))

4- Cure your heart : no one saw God , nor the angels or the prophets … also in the judgment day the unbelievers will not see God , an Islamic philosophers said to his mother : I found 1000 proof about ALLAH . his mother said : your heart contains 1000 disease… then she recited : (("Is there a doubt about Allah, The Creator of the heavens and the earth? It is He Who invites you, in order that He may forgive you your sins and give you respite for a term appointed!" They said: "Ah! ye are no more than human, like ourselves! Ye wish to turn us away from the (gods) our fathers used to worship: then bring us some clear authority." )) .

5- we will not know God through scientists or experts or the engineers or Doctors . God chosen specific persons to tell people about him . we call them [ THE MESSENGERS OF ALLAH ] . you will not find God in labs or factories and you will not see him if you use the most advanced telescopes ... but you will find everything in the universe from the tiny Cell to the giant Star testify there is a great creator created this universe and still creating in less than a blink .

--------------------------------------------------

Image

This is a man . he looks like us .
do you want to make him your god ? as those people did ?

Image

steps
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Post #43

Post by steps »

A Troubled Man wrote:
steps wrote:
A Troubled Man wrote:
steps wrote:
2- the unbelievers of Allah : or the followers of the devil , each time they defeat by the believers , then the devil comes to them with a new dress and promises them and creates in them false desires .
Your holy book is teaching you lies. Non-believers of Islam are not following any devils and are not being defeated by you or your religion.

You accomplish nothing more than to provide more and more evidence to reject Islam.

[ 53. Soon will We show them our Signs in the (furthest) regions (of the earth), and in their own souls, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the Truth. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things?] surah 41


Quran Vs. Lawrence Krauss and "A Universe From Nothing"

[youtube][/youtube]

[6. Say: "The (Qur'an) was sent down by Him who knows the mystery (that is) in the heavens and the earth: verily He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."] Surah 25

do you need more proofs ? at your service . just to know the lies from your side .
and we are helping you
What proofs? All I saw was a video in which the Quran was being compared to Krauss' hypothesis regarding the origins of the universe. Unfortunately, nothing in the Quran supports any scientific theory.

You're not helping at all, you're doing a great disservice.
You can stop here , and no need to complete with me until you disprove the video .
because I do not want to embarrass you more . you will twist the rope around your neck

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Post #44

Post by TG123 »

A Troubled Man wrote:
TG123 wrote:
What makes it evil? Without God, how do you define what is good and what is evil?
A Troubled Man wrote: I don't define anything. It is a simply matter of reasoning. Worship me or else is not a hard concept to figure out.
You haven't answered my question. What makes "worship me or else" an evil thing to say? How did you arrive at this conclusion? How do you define what is evil and what is good?
Except a despot cannot create you out of nothing and guarantee eternal life in Paradise for you if you believe in Him- and faith includes obedience to God's commands. If you obey His commands you will be kind, considerate and loving to everyone around you.
A Troubled Man wrote: That is baloney. It is a fact that evolution created all life on earth as it is today, not your god.
'Evolution created all life'... quite the statement. Of course I don't believe it to be true, but for the sake of argument I will pretend that it is.

If evolution created 'all life', who created evolution? How can evolution 'create' life?
A Troubled Man wrote:
Obeying your gods commands doesn't make one automatically kind, considerate and loving. There is plenty of evidence to show the contrary.
Obeying God's commands will mean that you will love your neighbours. You will do everything possible to help victims of hunger, disease, homelessness and injustice because you know that what you do to them you are doing to God Himself. It will mean that even when others harm you, you will not strike back but will love them. If you follow God's commands, you will not look down on other people, and you will be a person whose intent is to serve rather than to be served.

These are all things Jesus demanded of His disciples in their interactions with others. Sadly, many Christians don't live their lives this way, and some don't even try to. But if they did, that is how they would behave.

Except that God doesn't intend anyone to go to hell. He wants us not to, that is why He tells us to follow Him.
A Troubled Man wrote: Whether He wants us to go to hell or not is irrelevant to the fact He will send us there if we don't worship Him. This is no different than any other despot.
It is relevant, because He provides for us a way to salvation. I guess you could say that God is no different than any other despot who has the power to create life and the universe, and offers eternal joy and salvation for those who follow Him. Find me a despot like that, and I'll agree with you. All the best.
Allah = God, for starters. Yes, He will send us to hell if we don't worship Him, but this isn't where He wants us to end up, so He warns us.
That is a threat, by definition, not a warning.
No, it's a warning, so that people don't perish.
A Troubled Man wrote: Clearly, you are misunderstanding the definition of warn and threat and clearly you haven't understood my example of the torture chamber. They are threats.
OK, you could have a point. Yes, God threatens people with Hell if they don't follow Him. Given the fact that all someone has to do to avoid hell is to believe in Him, I don't see this as unethical.
But He doesn't want us to go hell, so He doesn't intend that anyone go there.
A Troubled Man wrote: Then, He wouldn't send anyone there if He didn't want us to go there. Simple. But of course, that isn't the case, he demands we worship Him, or else.
If there are only two options- Heaven and Hell, and we refuse Heaven because we refuse to believe in Him, what is left?
The part missing in the analogy is that you would also have to create an eternal paradise that offered unending joy, and give the option of which one the person would want to go to. Most would opt for the Paradise.
A Troubled Man wrote: Irrelevant. That has nothing to do with Him threatening us with Hell.
Very relevant. You compared yourself, if you were to build a torture chamber, to God. In order for the comparison to be sound, you would also need to be able to create the alternative, which He did.
Warnings, actually. But even if you want to call them threats, I still don't see what is immoral about giving negative consequences to people who choose not to follow rules.
A Troubled Man wrote: They are threats by definition, it is not what I want to call them, it is what they are.
Fine, call them threats.
A Troubled Man wrote: Demanding one worship you has nothing to do with following rules.
Unless the rules call for worship. Which they do.
Yes. And we never have to enter it if we do worship Him. Worshiping Him will also cause us to be better people to those around us.
A Troubled Man wrote: Baloney, that isn't even remotely true.
Ham sandwich to that. It is very much true.
Nevertheless, there is a threat present. Those who feed monkeys will be punished.
A Troubled Man wrote: And, if your God anything to do with the punishment, they would be sent to hell, while in the meantime, the folks who run the zoo might tell you to not feed the monkeys. This is not a threat by any stretch of the imagination.
The folks at the zoo didn't create you or create Paradise as God did, or have infinite wisdom and power like He does.

Threatening someone with a fine for feeding monkeys is very much a threat. What else could it be?
If you are consistent, you should also be condemning this. In addition, you should be condemning every law that exists that imposes negative consequences for those who break it.
A Troubled Man wrote: The law does not condemn people to eternal damnation.
It also does not offer eternal salvation. Neither is it perfect.
Getting mad at God for creating hell and warning you He will send you there if you don't believe in Him while ignoring the fact He has Paradise waiting for you and all you have to do is believe in Him, is pretty silly to me.
A Troubled Man wrote: Yes, I'm sure it is silly for you, but that is because you don't understand the difference between warnings and threats.
Even if we want to state God threatens people, it is still silly to get mad at Him for creating Hell when He also created Paradise, and makes it easy for you to enter it.

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Post #45

Post by A Troubled Man »

steps wrote:
You can stop here , and no need to complete with me until you disprove the video .
There's nothing to disprove. The Quran is book of myths and superstitions that has nothing to do with science.
because I do not want to embarrass you more . you will twist the rope around your neck
It would certainly appear that those kind of violence oriented comments seem to be part of your worldview that you enjoy telling others, most likely brought on by your religion.

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Post #46

Post by A Troubled Man »

TG123 wrote:
You haven't answered my question. What makes "worship me or else" an evil thing to say?
Because it is a threat upon people who have done nothing to deserve being threatened.
How did you arrive at this conclusion? How do you define what is evil and what is good?
Threatening others is certainly not good. Do you like being threatened, especially when it comes to your life?

Do you actually need someone to explain that to you?
'Evolution created all life'... quite the statement. Of course I don't believe it to be true, but for the sake of argument I will pretend that it is.
You can pretend to be scientifically literate, but you're not fooling anyone.
If evolution created 'all life', who created evolution? How can evolution 'create' life?


No "one" created evolution. If you don't understand how evolution works, you certainly aren't able to intelligently comment on it. Take the time to understand it and you'll find it makes sense, especially with all the evidence to support it.
Obeying God's commands will mean that you will love your neighbours. You will do everything possible to help victims of hunger, disease, homelessness and injustice because you know that what you do to them you are doing to God Himself. It will mean that even when others harm you, you will not strike back but will love them. If you follow God's commands, you will not look down on other people, and you will be a person whose intent is to serve rather than to be served.
Yet, we find that isn't remotely true when we can observe folks who reject your God but help others. The difference is that they are doing it for the other people and not for selfish reasons, such as to please their gods.
These are all things Jesus demanded of His disciples in their interactions with others. Sadly, many Christians don't live their lives this way, and some don't even try to. But if they did, that is how they would behave.
No one needs Jesus' commands to be a good person.

It is relevant, because He provides for us a way to salvation.
I don't need salvation because there is nothing to be saved from.
I guess you could say that God is no different than any other despot who has the power to create life and the universe, and offers eternal joy and salvation for those who follow Him. Find me a despot like that, and I'll agree with you. All the best.
Eternal joy and salvation are myths and superstitions.

No, it's a warning, so that people don't perish.
It's a threat, by definition. If God didn't want people to perish, He wouldn't send to hell. Simple, really.

OK, you could have a point. Yes, God threatens people with Hell if they don't follow Him. Given the fact that all someone has to do to avoid hell is to believe in Him, I don't see this as unethical.
And yet, it is highly unethical and immoral as can be seen with any despot who behaves the same way.
If there are only two options- Heaven and Hell, and we refuse Heaven because we refuse to believe in Him, what is left?
Many other options are left. One is to ignore your God and not go to heaven or hell, and just be left alone from threats and the wrath of a selfish god.
Very relevant. You compared yourself, if you were to build a torture chamber, to God. In order for the comparison to be sound, you would also need to be able to create the alternative, which He did.
The alternative is to do nothing at all, to not threaten and to not torture and kill someone, or in the case of your god, to not send anyone to hell. Again, simple.
Unless the rules call for worship. Which they do.
Those would be the same "rules" as a despot demands from his followers. No difference.
Yes. And we never have to enter it if we do worship Him. Worshiping Him will also cause us to be better people to those around us.
The folks at the zoo didn't create you or create Paradise as God did, or have infinite wisdom and power like He does.
Sorry, but you have to prove those assertions, first.
It also does not offer eternal salvation. Neither is it perfect.
So what?
Even if we want to state God threatens people, it is still silly to get mad at Him for creating Hell when He also created Paradise, and makes it easy for you to enter it.
He doesn't make it easy, He demands worship, just like a despot. No one with any honor, integrity and respect would ever bow to such a egotistical being, no matter what he offered.

In the movie, "300", Leonidas stands before Xerxes and tells him exactly the same thing when Xerxes demands Leonidas worships him in return for being his second in command.

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Post #47

Post by TG123 »

A Troubled Man wrote:
TG123 wrote:
You haven't answered my question. What makes "worship me or else" an evil thing to say?
A Troubled Man wrote: Because it is a threat upon people who have done nothing to deserve being threatened.
Sure they have. They don't thank their Creator. Without God who created us, we wouldn't even be alive today.
How did you arrive at this conclusion? How do you define what is evil and what is good?
A Troubled Man wrote: Threatening others is certainly not good. Do you like being threatened, especially when it comes to your life?
I don't like people telling me that I can't go over the speed limit or I have to go to jail. I don't like people telling me that if I don't eat responsibly, I may become obese or contract diseases. I don't like a lot of things. Does this mean these threats are evil?
A Troubled Man wrote: Do you actually need someone to explain that to you?
You say God threatening us is bad because we don't like being threatened. Many of us don't like a lot of things. That doesn't mean everyone and nature as well needs to accomodate us.
'Evolution created all life'... quite the statement. Of course I don't believe it to be true, but for the sake of argument I will pretend that it is.
A Troubled Man wrote: You can pretend to be scientifically literate, but you're not fooling anyone.
I'm not pretending anything.
If evolution created 'all life', who created evolution? How can evolution 'create' life?
A Troubled Man wrote: No "one" created evolution. If you don't understand how evolution works, you certainly aren't able to intelligently comment on it. Take the time to understand it and you'll find it makes sense, especially with all the evidence to support it.
"Evolution is technically defined as: "a gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form." As it is most famously used, "evolution" is the process by which an organism becomes more sophisticated over time and in response to its environment. The Theory of Evolution is currently the most popular concept of how life reached its current state. Evolution as a biological mechanism is driven by natural selection. This theory is favored by many scientists to explain phenomena in nature, so much so that it is generally assumed as factual in most studies."
- See more at: http://www.allaboutscience.org/what-is- ... V2vSD.dpuf

So evolution is a process in which organisms (living things) change over time. You stated "evolution created all life". If evolution is a process, then claiming it created all life is a nonsensical statement, since for evolution to exist in the first place, there would have needed to be life which it could act upon to evolve into other life.
Clearly, evolution did not create all life. Life existed before evolution, by definition.

So what or Who created life?
Obeying God's commands will mean that you will love your neighbours. You will do everything possible to help victims of hunger, disease, homelessness and injustice because you know that what you do to them you are doing to God Himself. It will mean that even when others harm you, you will not strike back but will love them. If you follow God's commands, you will not look down on other people, and you will be a person whose intent is to serve rather than to be served.
A Troubled Man wrote: Yet, we find that isn't remotely true when we can observe folks who reject your God but help others. The difference is that they are doing it for the other people and not for selfish reasons, such as to please their gods.
I didn't say non-believers don't help others. I said that people who follow God will help others. Reading carefully what the other person says is always a good idea.
These are all things Jesus demanded of His disciples in their interactions with others. Sadly, many Christians don't live their lives this way, and some don't even try to. But if they did, that is how they would behave.
A Troubled Man wrote: No one needs Jesus' commands to be a good person.
I didn't say they did.

It is relevant, because He provides for us a way to salvation.
A Troubled Man wrote: I don't need salvation because there is nothing to be saved from.
Of course there is. The thing to be saved from is hell.
I guess you could say that God is no different than any other despot who has the power to create life and the universe, and offers eternal joy and salvation for those who follow Him. Find me a despot like that, and I'll agree with you. All the best.
A Troubled Man wrote: Eternal joy and salvation are myths and superstitions.
It is a myth (and a laughable one at that) that all life was formed by a process that requires previous life to exist for it to even happen. Eternal joy and salvation are realities.
No, it's a warning, so that people don't perish.
A Troubled Man wrote: It's a threat, by definition. If God didn't want people to perish, He wouldn't send to hell. Simple, really.
Fair enough, it is a threat. God doesn't want people to perish, so He tells us how to get to Heaven. A police officer in a high school doesn't want kids to have criminal records, so he'll tell them to not break the law. If they do though, he will need to take legal action.

OK, you could have a point. Yes, God threatens people with Hell if they don't follow Him. Given the fact that all someone has to do to avoid hell is to believe in Him, I don't see this as unethical.
A Troubled Man wrote: And yet, it is highly unethical and immoral as can be seen with any despot who behaves the same way.
The only problem with this comparison is that there is no despot- or anyone else for that matter- who is similar to God, so your statement makes no sense. And you still haven't provided a definition of "ethics" and "morals", or any reason why it should be used.
If there are only two options- Heaven and Hell, and we refuse Heaven because we refuse to believe in Him, what is left?
A Troubled Man wrote: Many other options are left. One is to ignore your God and not go to heaven or hell, and just be left alone from threats and the wrath of a selfish god.
Sorry, these aren't options. God made Heaven and Hell as the only 2 eternal realities after our life here on earth is finished. Choose Heaven or by default you end up in the other place.
Very relevant. You compared yourself, if you were to build a torture chamber, to God. In order for the comparison to be sound, you would also need to be able to create the alternative, which He did.
A Troubled Man wrote: The alternative is to do nothing at all, to not threaten and to not torture and kill someone, or in the case of your god, to not send anyone to hell. Again, simple.
The alternative to Hell is Heaven. You know how to get there. All you need to do is believe.
Unless the rules call for worship. Which they do.
A Troubled Man wrote: Those would be the same "rules" as a despot demands from his followers. No difference.
Only unlike despots who are unable to create life, don't possess infinite wisdom and power and haven't created Paradise, God has the right to demand worship because of the differences I just listed.
Yes. And we never have to enter it if we do worship Him. Worshiping Him will also cause us to be better people to those around us.
The folks at the zoo didn't create you or create Paradise as God did, or have infinite wisdom and power like He does.
A Troubled Man wrote: Sorry, but you have to prove those assertions, first.
That the folks at the zoo aren't infinitely powerful and wise, or that God is? God by Biblical definition meets all these criteria.
It also does not offer eternal salvation. Neither is it perfect.
A Troubled Man wrote:So what?
So comparing it to God is senseless.
Even if we want to state God threatens people, it is still silly to get mad at Him for creating Hell when He also created Paradise, and makes it easy for you to enter it.
A Troubled Man wrote: He doesn't make it easy, He demands worship, just like a despot. No one with any honor, integrity and respect would ever bow to such a egotistical being, no matter what he offered.
What would a person with "honor, integrity and respect" bow down to then? Everyone has something they greatly value.
A Troubled Man wrote:In the movie, "300", Leonidas stands before Xerxes and tells him exactly the same thing when Xerxes demands Leonidas worships him in return for being his second in command.

I had no idea Xerxes was the Creator of the Universe and of all life, and that He was all-knowing and created an eternal paradise for humanity. I don't think Leonidas believed that about him either. Again, your example doesn't work.

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Post #48

Post by Divine Insight »

steps wrote: This is a man . he looks like us .
do you want to make him your god ? as those people did ?

Image
I don't make Jesus into a God. The Christians do.

As far as I'm concerned Jesus was most likely a mystic Jewish Mahayana Buddhist Bodhisattva. That's the only thing that makes sense from the Christian rumors.

But even Muhammad fell for the Christian Gossip that Jesus was a prophet. So Muhammad was just as gullible as the Christians.

I'll continue to pray to Zeus to heal your troubled Allah.

Although seriously doubt that Zeus exists either. But since Allah was clearly related to Zeus in the Mediterranean myths it seems that Zeus would be his best chance for being healed. May as well pray to the God that is most likely above Allah. Zeus may even know who Allah's parents are and help out with that. ;)


If Zeus can't help we can always ask Frodo, or some other fictional character.

Poor Allah is clearly in dire need of help. Surely there's something that can be done.

Maybe even praying to Jesus might help. ;)

I would pray to the Wicca Moon Goddess but I already know what She would say. She would suggest to me that I let the lost Gods find their own way.

I'm sure Allah is probably just working out some bad karma. He'll get past his selfish bitterness eventually. It just may take some time.

If I were you I wouldn't worry about Allah too much. There are healthier Gods that you can turn to personally until Allah is healed. There's no need for you to wallow in the depression of Allah. That's not really helping Allah at all.

You'd actually be helping Allah better if you move on to another God archetype instead of perpetuating Allah's need for selfishness and his obsession to be so controlling.

Sometimes it's just better to step back and let someone who's hurting heal on their own. Clearly Allah is very deeply hurt by some previous trauma. It's a sad situation to be sure.

We can only look at the bright side and imagine that he will get better someday. ;)
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Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
of how well they believe they are doing
relative to what they believe a personal God expects of them.
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A Troubled Man
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Post #49

Post by A Troubled Man »

TG123 wrote:
Sure they have. They don't thank their Creator. Without God who created us, we wouldn't even be alive today.
That is because we understand evolution created us, not your God. You don't see scientists running around thanking, praising and worshiping evolution.
You say God threatening us is bad because we don't like being threatened. Many of us don't like a lot of things. That doesn't mean everyone and nature as well needs to accomodate us.
Uh, are you aware there are actually laws in societies for making threats, which have absolutely nothing to do with things we don't like.
So evolution is a process in which organisms (living things) change over time. You stated "evolution created all life". If evolution is a process, then claiming it created all life is a nonsensical statement, since for evolution to exist in the first place, there would have needed to be life which it could act upon to evolve into other life.
Clearly, evolution did not create all life. Life existed before evolution, by definition.
Did you even see the part where I said evolution created life in it's current form. Abiogenesis is the hypothesis regarding the origins of life itself.
So what or Who created life?
There is no "who", there is only "what", and that is what Abiogenesis attempts to explain.
I didn't say non-believers don't help others. I said that people who follow God will help others.
I know what you said, which I responded that those who follow God to help others are doing so for selfish reasons, to get in good with the big guy, so to speak.
Of course there is. The thing to be saved from is hell.
No one has ever shown hell to exist, hence there is nothing to be saved from.
It is a myth (and a laughable one at that) that all life was formed by a process that requires previous life to exist for it to even happen. Eternal joy and salvation are realities.
No, those are religious beliefs based on myths and superstitions. Evolution is a fact, not a myth.
Fair enough, it is a threat. God doesn't want people to perish, so He tells us how to get to Heaven. A police officer in a high school doesn't want kids to have criminal records, so he'll tell them to not break the law. If they do though, he will need to take legal action.
Your analogy fails because police officers don't demand worship and praise like your God.

The only problem with this comparison is that there is no despot- or anyone else for that matter- who is similar to God, so your statement makes no sense.
Most certainly there have been despots that behaved exactly like your God, that is the point entirely.
And you still haven't provided a definition of "ethics" and "morals", or any reason why it should be used.
I don't provide definitions, the English language does.
Sorry, these aren't options. God made Heaven and Hell as the only 2 eternal realities after our life here on earth is finished. Choose Heaven or by default you end up in the other place.
Again, those are merely religious beliefs based on ancient myths and superstitions, they are far from being anything in reality. And if your God only provides those two alternatives, once again, He is behaving exactly like a despot.

Anakin:"If you're not with me, then you're my enemy."

Obi-Wan: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes."
The alternative to Hell is Heaven. You know how to get there. All you need to do is believe.
Yes, by tossing out every single ounce of reason, rationale and logic so as to "believe" in a myth, I too could delude myself. But of course, there are plenty of alternatives, even with other religions, let alone reality.
Only unlike despots who are unable to create life, don't possess infinite wisdom and power and haven't created Paradise, God has the right to demand worship because of the differences I just listed.[/quote

Strawman fallacy. We are talking about behavior, not who possess more power. Of course, we know despots have far more power on earth than any god.
That the folks at the zoo aren't infinitely powerful and wise, or that God is? God by Biblical definition meets all these criteria.
So what? We can find all kinds of things in the Bible that are false. That has been accomplished by a number of scholars already.
What would a person with "honor, integrity and respect" bow down to then?
People with honor, integrity and respect don't bow down to anyone. We are all humans, equal. No one deserves to be worshiped.
Everyone has something they greatly value.
Speak for yourself.
I had no idea Xerxes was the Creator of the Universe and of all life, and that He was all-knowing and created an eternal paradise for humanity. I don't think Leonidas believed that about him either. Again, your example doesn't work.[/b]
Another strawman fallacy, same one as above. Xerxes did in fact claim he was god and it matters not whether he created the universe or not, it is his behavior, like your God, that is reprehensible, unethical and immoral.

steps
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Post #50

Post by steps »

1. Ha Mim

2. The revelation of this Book is from Allah, Exalted in Power, Full of Knowledge,-

3. Who forgiveth sin, accepteth repentance, is strict in punishment, and hath a long reach (in all things). there is no god but He: to Him is the final goal.

4. None can dispute about the Signs of Allah but the Unbelievers. Let not, then, their strutting about through the land deceive thee!

5. But (there were people) before them, who denied (the Signs),- the People of Noah, and the Confederates (of Evil) after them; and every People plotted against their prophet, to seize him, and disputed by means of vanities, therewith to condemn the Truth; but it was I that seized them! and how (terrible) was My Requital!

6. Thus was the Decree of thy Lord proved true against the Unbelievers; that truly they are Companions of the Fire!

7. Those who sustain the Throne (of Allah. and those around it Sing Glory and Praise to their Lord; believe in Him; and implore Forgiveness for those who believe: "Our Lord! Thy Reach is over all things, in Mercy and Knowledge. Forgive, then, those who turn in Repentance, and follow Thy Path; and preserve them from the Penalty of the Blazing Fire!

8. "And grant, our Lord! that they enter the Gardens of Eternity, which Thou hast promised to them, and to the righteous among their fathers, their wives, and their posterity! For Thou art (He), the Exalted in Might, Full of Wisdom.

9. "And preserve them from (all) ills; and any whom Thou dost preserve from ills that Day,- on them wilt Thou have bestowed Mercy indeed: and that will be truly (for them) the highest Achievement".

10. The Unbelievers will be addressed: "Greater was the aversion of Allah to you than (is) your aversion to yourselves, seeing that ye were called to the Faith and ye used to refuse."

11. They will say: "Our Lord! twice hast Thou made us without life, and twice hast Thou given us Life! Now have we recognised our sins: Is there any way out (of this)?"

12. (The answer will be:) "This is because, when Allah was invoked as the Only (object of worship), ye did reject Faith, but when partners were joined to Him, ye believed! the Command is with Allah, Most High, Most Great!"

13. He it is Who showeth you his Signs, and sendeth down sustenance for you from the sky: but only those receive admonition who turn (to Allah..

14. Call ye, then, upon Allah with sincere devotion to Him, even though the Unbelievers may detest it.

15. Raised high above ranks (or degrees), (He is) the Lord of the Throne (of Authority): by His Command doth He send the Spirit (of inspiration) to any of His servants he pleases, that it may warn (men) of the Day of Mutual Meeting,-

16. The Day whereon they will (all) come forth: not a single thing concerning them is hidden from Allah. Whose will be the dominion that Day?" That of Allah, the One the Irresistible!

17. That Day will every soul be requited for what it earned; no injustice will there be that Day, for Allah is Swift in taking account.

18. Warn them of the Day that is (ever) drawing near, when the hearts will (come) right up to the throats to choke (them); No intimate friend nor intercessor will the wrong-doers have, who could be listened to.

19. ((Allah)) knows of (the tricks) that deceive with the eyes, and all that the hearts (of men) conceal.

20. And Allah will judge with (justice and) Truth: but those whom (men) invoke besides Him, will not (be in a position) to judge at all. Verily it is Allah (alone) Who hears and sees (all things).

21. Do they not travel through the earth and see what was the End of those before them? They were even superior to them in strength, and in the traces (they have left) in the land: but Allah did call them to account for their sins, and none had they to defend them against Allah.

22. That was because there came to them their apostles with Clear (Signs), but they rejected them: So Allah called them to account: for He is Full of Strength, Strict in Punishment.

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