Question about the Quran

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TG123
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Question about the Quran

Post #1

Post by TG123 »

Salaam Alaikum,

This is a question to the Muslim posters on the forum. Can you please tell me what significance the Quran has for you in your faith? I know Islam teaches that God revealed it directly through the ArchAngel Gabriel to Muhammad.

Do you believe that it is 100% true and without any mistakes? I know that the Quran teaches there are no contradictions in it, would the same apply to other kinds of errors (ie scientific, historical, theological, etc)?

4:82
Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from [any] other than Allah , they would have found within it much contradiction.

If a mistake was found in the Quran that was not a contradiction, would it still be in your opinion the word of God?


Shukran wa Allahma3k. Ramadan Mubarak aydan.

A Troubled Man
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Post #41

Post by A Troubled Man »

TG123 wrote:
A Troubled Man wrote:
TG123 wrote:
If countries can point missiles in the direction of other countries and cities, people can also pray in the direction of a city.
:lol: Prayers have on-board guidance systems?
Do you have any evidence that they can or can't reach their targets?
Missiles fired without guidance systems usually never reach their intended targets, especially if those targets are on the other side of the world. Of course, the farther away, the more accurate the missile needs to be, if off by even a small degree, they could miss their targets by hundreds of miles.

TG123
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Post #42

Post by TG123 »

A Troubled Man wrote:
TG123 wrote:
A Troubled Man wrote:
TG123 wrote:
If countries can point missiles in the direction of other countries and cities, people can also pray in the direction of a city.
:lol: Prayers have on-board guidance systems?
Do you have any evidence that they can or can't reach their targets?
Missiles fired without guidance systems usually never reach their intended targets, especially if those targets are on the other side of the world. Of course, the farther away, the more accurate the missile needs to be, if off by even a small degree, they could miss their targets by hundreds of miles.
You didn't answer my question. Can you present evidence that prayers directed towards Mecca reach or don't reach their target?

A Troubled Man
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Post #43

Post by A Troubled Man »

TG123 wrote:
A Troubled Man wrote:
TG123 wrote:
A Troubled Man wrote:
TG123 wrote:
If countries can point missiles in the direction of other countries and cities, people can also pray in the direction of a city.
:lol: Prayers have on-board guidance systems?
Do you have any evidence that they can or can't reach their targets?
Missiles fired without guidance systems usually never reach their intended targets, especially if those targets are on the other side of the world. Of course, the farther away, the more accurate the missile needs to be, if off by even a small degree, they could miss their targets by hundreds of miles.
You didn't answer my question. Can you present evidence that prayers directed towards Mecca reach or don't reach their target?
Prayers are just wishful thinking and our brains don't work that way, unable to direct messages to some target around the globe, let alone across a room.

You would first need to show evidence prayers go beyond ones skull.

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Post #44

Post by TG123 »

A Troubled Man wrote:
TG123 wrote:
A Troubled Man wrote:
TG123 wrote:
A Troubled Man wrote:
TG123 wrote:
If countries can point missiles in the direction of other countries and cities, people can also pray in the direction of a city.
:lol: Prayers have on-board guidance systems?
Do you have any evidence that they can or can't reach their targets?
Missiles fired without guidance systems usually never reach their intended targets, especially if those targets are on the other side of the world. Of course, the farther away, the more accurate the missile needs to be, if off by even a small degree, they could miss their targets by hundreds of miles.
You didn't answer my question. Can you present evidence that prayers directed towards Mecca reach or don't reach their target?
Prayers are just wishful thinking and our brains don't work that way, unable to direct messages to some target around the globe, let alone across a room.

You would first need to show evidence prayers go beyond ones skull.
How do you know the prayers are intended to go to Mecca? All Muslims are asked to do is face in its direction when they pray. Islam does not teach that their prayers reach there or don't reach there. Islam and Christianity both teach God is omnipresent, and He hears us when we pray.

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Post #45

Post by A Troubled Man »

TG123 wrote:
How do you know the prayers are intended to go to Mecca? All Muslims are asked to do is face in its direction when they pray.
But, they aren't facing that direction if they are on the other side of the globe, they are facing empty space.
Islam does not teach that their prayers reach there or don't reach there. Islam and Christianity both teach God is omnipresent, and He hears us when we pray.
That would require evidence on your part to show that God hears prayers.

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Post #46

Post by TG123 »

A Troubled Man wrote:
TG123 wrote:
How do you know the prayers are intended to go to Mecca? All Muslims are asked to do is face in its direction when they pray.
A Troubled Man wrote: But, they aren't facing that direction if they are on the other side of the globe, they are facing empty space.
The same is true of a missile being pointed at another country. You said this is possible. Why is it not possible to point at another country in prayer?

Islam does not teach that their prayers reach there or don't reach there. Islam and Christianity both teach God is omnipresent, and He hears us when we pray.
A Troubled Man wrote: That would require evidence on your part to show that God hears prayers.
It isn't what we are discussing. You imply Muslims can't be facing Mecca when they pray. I point out that they can.

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Post #47

Post by A Troubled Man »

TG123 wrote: You imply Muslims can't be facing Mecca when they pray. I point out that they can.
It's called, 'line of sight' - when one is facing a particular direction, the line of sight is straight, so if they are facing any direction in which Mecca is not directly in that line of sight, they are not facing Mecca.

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Post #48

Post by TG123 »

A Troubled Man wrote:
TG123 wrote: You imply Muslims can't be facing Mecca when they pray. I point out that they can.
It's called, 'line of sight' - when one is facing a particular direction, the line of sight is straight, so if they are facing any direction in which Mecca is not directly in that line of sight, they are not facing Mecca.
How do you know their "line of sight" needs to be straight? If a missile can be pointed at another country and reach it even if the line of sight is not straight, why can't Muslims who are praying point towards Mecca, even if not pefectly?

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Post #49

Post by A Troubled Man »

TG123 wrote:
How do you know their "line of sight" needs to be straight?
By definition, of course.
If a missile can be pointed at another country and reach it even if the line of sight is not straight, why can't Muslims who are praying point towards Mecca, even if not pefectly?
Missiles have guidance systems. Do prayers have guidance systems? :lol:

steps
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Post #50

Post by steps »

Divine Insight wrote:
steps wrote: I am very sure that you read these verses and you understood them before asking me , and you know that I am keeping info about this subject for you .

There is huge differences between someone asks about Islam and someone tries to attack Islam.
As an unbiased by-stander in this debate I don't see where you have address TG123's observations.

TG123 spoke of actual tombs that had been built with inscriptions on them and were even built at a much later date that the event spoken of in the Qur'an.

To steps,

You claim that their homes became their tombs due to a blast that killed these people. But a blast that kills people doesn't build stone monuments and inscribe them.

So your apologetic argument doesn't hold water, IMHO.

So thus far I see TG123's claims haven't truly been addressed at all. You have simply side-stepped them by trying to pretend that these people were killed in their homes so that they home metaphorically became tombs.

But a metaphorical apologetic argument won't work here. You need to explain how actual stone tombs go there and were inscribed. And how this happened centuries after the original event supposedly even happened.

So thus far I see no viable answers in your apologetic argument that actually addresses TG's observations.

TO : TG123

Sure there are tombs , we are speaking about a powerful civilization formed from the mountains their houses , same as many great civilizations , but here is something to DI and TM to think about it .

Allah says : [21. Do they not travel through the earth and see what was the End of those before them? They were even superior to them in strength, and in the traces (they have left) in the land: but Allah did call them to account for their sins, and none had they to defend them against Allah.22. That was because there came to them their apostles with Clear (Signs), but they rejected them: So Allah called them to account: for He is Full of Strength, Strict in Punishment. ] Surah 40

These civilizations were more powerful , and Allah gave them high knowledge and powerful bodies . unlike our civilization which depends on electricity and oil , if they gone we will dig our graves by our hands

[82. Do they not travel through the earth and see what was the End of those before them? They were more numerous than these and superior in strength and in the traces (they have left) in the land: Yet all that they accomplished was of no profit to them.83. For when their apostles came to them with Clear Signs, they exulted in such knowledge (and skill) as they had; but that very (Wrath) at which they were wont to scoff hemmed them in.84. But when they saw Our Punishment, they said: "We believe in Allah,- the one Allah - and we reject the partners we used to join with Him."85. But their professing the Faith when they (actually) saw Our Punishment was not going to profit them. (Such has been) Allah.s Way of dealing with His Servants (from the most ancient times). And even thus did the Rejecters of Allah perish (utterly)! ]

The other thing : the call of prophet Salih to his people was not one day or one night , then Allah punished them , the call continued many years . during and before these years , sure they used tombs to bury the dead people .

Therefore I ignored the comment of DI . because it depends on ignorance and fighting the truth .

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