Contradiction on Muslims and hell in Bukhari Hadiths

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TG123
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Contradiction on Muslims and hell in Bukhari Hadiths

Post #1

Post by TG123 »

Assalamu Alaikum,

I was wondering how Muslims would reconcile the contradiction in the hadiths below. Both are found in the Bukhari collection, which is believed to be an accurate depiction of Muhammad's words.

(7) Narrated 'Utban bin Malik Al-Ansari: who was one of the men of the tribe of Bani Salim: Allah's Apostle came to me and said, "If anybody comes on the Day of Resurrection who has said: La ilaha illal-lah, sincerely, with the intention to win Allah's Pleasure, Allah will make the hell-Fire forbidden for him." (Book #76, Hadith #431)

http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHadith ... h_word=all


(1) Narrated Al-Ahnaf bin Qais: While I was going to help this man ('Ali Ibn Abi Talib), Abu Bakra met me and asked, "Where are you going?" I replied, "I am going to help that person." He said, "Go back for I have heard Allah's Apostle saying, 'When two muslims fight (meet) each other with their swords, both the murderer as well as the murdered will go to the Hell-fire.' I said, 'O Allah's Apostle! It is all right for the murderer but what about the murdered one?' Allah's Apostle replied, "He surely had the intention to kill his companion." (Book #2, Hadith #30)

http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHadith ... h_word=all

Muhammad stated that all who say " La ilaha illal-lah", or, "there is no god but God", sincerely, will have hellfire denied to them. Of course, saying " La ilaha illal-lah" is part of the shahadah, "La ilaha illal-lah Muhammad al rasul Allah", or "There is no god but God and Muhammad is the Messenger of God". One cannot become a Muslim without saying it, and it must be said sincerely, otherwise it does not count. Muhammad stated that God will forbid the hell-fire for those who say the shahada. Since every Muslim has said the shahada, this would mean that God will deny hellfire for every Muslim.

Yet, Muhammad also said that when 2 Muslims fight with swords, both the killer and the killed will go to hell.

So on one hand, Muhammad said that those who say the shahada sincerely (every Muslim) will have hell-fire denied to him or her... yet on the other, he said that there will be Muslims who will go to hell.

Contradicting oneself is a purely human thing. I've done it, I'm sure everyone has at some point.

Yet if Muhammad was getting his information about hell from God, then it couldn't be contradictory since God does not contradict Himself. If he was getting it from some other source, than clearly he was not God's prophet, and was talking about Him and the afterlife without consulting Him.

I believe Muhammad did many good and honourable things. He opposed infant sacrifices. He showed mercy to his enemies at times. He spoke out against polytheism and atheism.

But he was not a prophet of God. Examples like the one above, as well as mistakes in the Quran, show us that Islam is not from God.

steps
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Post #11

Post by steps »

TG123 wrote:
steps wrote:
TG123 wrote: [Replying to post 3 by TG123]
However, what about #532? It discusses very clearly the fate of Muslims who were disobedient. It states that some of them will be thrown in hell, and depending on how little faith and good works they did, their bodies will be burnt in varying intensity. However, everyone of these Muslims had said "there is no god but God" sincerely (otherwise they couldn't have became Muslims), and they died believers. According to Muhammad, those who said "there is no god but God" sincerely would have Hellfire denied to them. Yet God will allegedly throw those of them who were disobedient into Hell for a while.

(2) Narrated Abu Sa'id Al-Khudri: We said, "O Allah's Apostle! Shall we see our Lord on the Day of Resurrection?" He said, "Do you have any difficulty in seeing the sun and the moon when the sky is clear?" We said, "No." He said, "So you will have no difficulty in seeing your Lord on that Day as you have no difficulty in seeing the sun and the moon (in a clear sky)." The Prophet then said, "Somebody will then announce, 'Let every nation follow what they used to worship.' So the companions of the cross will go with their cross, and the idolators (will go) with their idols, and the companions of every god (false deities) (will go) with their god, till there remain those who used to worship Allah, both the obedient ones and the mischievous ones, and some of the people of the Scripture. Then Hell will be presented to them as if it were a mirage. Then it will be said to the jews, "What did you use to worship?' They will reply, 'We used to worship ezra, the son of Allah.' It will be said to them, 'You are liars, for Allah has neither a wife nor a son. What do you want (now)?' They will reply, 'We want You to provide us with water.' Then it will be said to them 'Drink,' and they will fall down in Hell (instead). Then it will be said to the Christians, 'What did you use to worship?' They will reply, 'We used to worship Messiah, the son of Allah.' It will be said, 'You are liars, for Allah has neither a wife nor a son. What: do you want (now)?' They will say, 'We want You to provide us with water.' It will be said to them, 'Drink,' and they will fall down in Hell (instead). When there remain only those who used to worship Allah (Alone), both the obedient ones and the mischievous ones, it will be said to them, 'What keeps you here when all the people have gone?' They will say, 'We parted with them (in the world) when we were in greater need of them than we are today, we heard the call of one proclaiming, 'Let every nation follow what they used to worship,' and now we are waiting for our Lord.' Then the Almighty will come to them in a shape other than the one which they saw the first time, and He will say, 'I am your Lord,' and they will say, 'You are not our Lord.' And none will speak: to Him then but the Prophets, and then it will be said to them, 'Do you know any sign by which you can recognize Him?' They will say. 'The Shin,' and so Allah will then uncover His Shin whereupon every believer will prostrate before Him and there will remain those who used to prostrate before Him just for showing off and for gaining good reputation. These people will try to prostrate but their backs will be rigid like one piece of a wood (and they will not be able to prostrate). Then the bridge will be laid across Hell." We, the companions of the Prophet said, "O Allah's Apostle! What is the bridge?' He said, "It is a slippery (bridge) on which there are clamps and (Hooks like) a thorny seed that is wide at one side and narrow at the other and has thorns with bent ends. Such a thorny seed is found in Najd and is called As-Sa'dan. Some of the believers will cross the bridge as quickly as the wink of an eye, some others as quick as lightning, a strong wind, fast horses or she-camels. So some will be safe without any harm; some will be safe after receiving some scratches, and some will fall down into Hell (Fire). The last person will cross by being dragged (over the bridge)." The Prophet said, "You (Muslims) cannot be more pressing in claiming from me a right that has been clearly proved to be yours than the believers in interceding with Almighty for their (Muslim) brothers on that Day, when they see themselves safe. They will say, 'O Allah! (Save) our brothers (for they) used to pray with us, fast with us and also do good deeds with us.' Allah will say, 'Go and take out (of Hell) anyone in whose heart you find faith equal to the weight of one (gold) Dinar.' Allah will forbid the Fire to burn the faces of those sinners. They will go to them and find some of them in Hell (Fire) up to their feet, and some up to the middle of their legs. So they will take out those whom they will recognize and then they will return, and Allah will say (to them), 'Go and take out (of Hell) anyone in whose heart you find faith equal to the weight of one half Dinar.' They will take out whomever they will recognize and return, and then Allah will say, 'Go and take out (of Hell) anyone in whose heart you find faith equal to the weight of an atom (or a smallest ant), and so they will take out all those whom they will recognize." Abu Sa'id said: If you do not believe me then read the Holy Verse:-- 'Surely! Allah wrongs not even of the weight of an atom (or a smallest ant) but if there is any good (done) He doubles it.' (4.40) The Prophet added, "Then the prophets and Angels and the believers will intercede, and (last of all) the Almighty (Allah) will say, 'Now remains My Intercession. He will then hold a handful of the Fire from which He will take out some people whose bodies have been burnt, and they will be thrown into a river at the entrance of Paradise, called the water of life. They will grow on its banks, as a seed carried by the torrent grows. You have noticed how it grows beside a rock or beside a tree, and how the side facing the sun is usually green while the side facing the shade is white. Those people will come out (of the River of Life) like pearls, and they will have (golden) necklaces, and then they will enter Paradise whereupon the people of Paradise will say, 'These are the people emancipated by the Beneficent. He has admitted them into Paradise without them having done any good deeds and without sending forth any good (for themselves).' Then it will be said to them, 'For you is what you have seen and its equivalent as well.'" (Book #93, Hadith #532s)
http://www.searchtruth.com/book_display ... =532s#532s

Either saying the Shahadah sincerely will mean that anyone who says it will be denied hellfire, or that some Muslims, despite having said it sincerely, will go to hell.
The right of the people , Muslims and non-Muslims

The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) asked one group of his companions, “Do you know who the bankrupt person is?�They said, “A bankrupt person amongst us is the one who has neither money nor property.�The Prophet (pbuh) said, “The bankrupt person of my nation is he who would come on the Day of Resurrection with prayer and fast and giving great amounts in charity. And at the same time, he would come having abused this one, and slandered that one, and consumed the wealth of the other unlawfully, and shed the blood of yet others and having beaten others. Then any person whom he has wronged will be given from his good deeds on that Day. And if his good deeds are exhausted until he clears the account concerning all of the people he has oppressed, the sins of those people whom he has wronged will be thrown unto his account and after that, he will be thrown into the hellfire.]

The Conditions of La ilaha illa Allah [ Shahadah ]

http://sunnahonline.com/library/beliefs ... illa-allah
Salaam Alaikum, and thank you for explaining. If a person takes the Shahadah and does not meet the conditions and goes to hellfire, then Muhammad was not truthful when he stated that saying "La ilaha illa Allah" or "La ilaha illa Allah Muhammad ar-rasul Allah" will mean that a person will not enter hellfire. Obviously, some who say this phrase will enter it.
Not you nor I or the owner of Station of Praise and Glory in the judgment day the great prophet Mohammad peace be upon him know who will say / or said the Shahadah sincerely . only Allah knows . therefore this case belongs to Allah only he knows the pure intentions .

For example :

the hypocrites during the time of prophet Mohammad and in our time.
They used to say the Shahadah , but Allah says about them : [145. The Hypocrites will be in the lowest depths of the Fire: no helper wilt thou find for them;- ]

There are the Rafida , the Sufism , the Murji'ah all of them said the Shahadah .

To be more specific :

We believe that anyone said the Shahadah sincerely will enter the Garden of Eden , but we do not have the right to point that this person will enter the Paradise or that person will enter hellfire , except those who Allah spoke about them such as the prophets peace be upon them all .because only Allah knows the hearts and the intentions .

For example : we believe the atheists in hellfire , but I do not have the right to say TroubledMan or Divine Insight in hell , or to say about myself that I am in the Garden of Eden.

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upqn him) as saying: Verily Allah does not look to your faces and your wealth but He looks to your heart and to your deeds.

Your claim same as the claim of Murjiah

http://www.kalamullah.com/sects03.html

steps
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Post #12

Post by steps »

[Replying to post 9 by TG123]

I am unqualified to say the Fatwa .

A fatw� (Arabic: �توى‎; plural fat�w� Arabic: �تاوى‎) in the Islamic faith is the technical term for the legal judgment or learned interpretation that a qualified jurist or mufti can give on issues pertaining to the Islamic law.[1] In Sunni Islam any fatw� is non-binding, whereas in Shia Islam it could be considered by an individual as binding, depending on his or her relation to the scholar[citation needed]. The person who issues a fatw� is called, in that respect, a Mufti, i.e. an issuer of fatw�, from the verb أَ�ْتَى 'aft�= "he gave a formal legal opinion on". This is not necessarily a formal position since most Muslims argue that anyone trained in Islamic law may give an opinion (fatw�) on its teachings. If a fatw� does not break new ground, then it is simply called aruling.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatwa

TG123
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Post #13

Post by TG123 »

Salaam Alaikum, and my apologies for not responding sooner.
steps wrote:
TG123 wrote:
steps wrote:
TG123 wrote: [Replying to post 3 by TG123]
However, what about #532? It discusses very clearly the fate of Muslims who were disobedient. It states that some of them will be thrown in hell, and depending on how little faith and good works they did, their bodies will be burnt in varying intensity. However, everyone of these Muslims had said "there is no god but God" sincerely (otherwise they couldn't have became Muslims), and they died believers. According to Muhammad, those who said "there is no god but God" sincerely would have Hellfire denied to them. Yet God will allegedly throw those of them who were disobedient into Hell for a while.

(2) Narrated Abu Sa'id Al-Khudri: We said, "O Allah's Apostle! Shall we see our Lord on the Day of Resurrection?" He said, "Do you have any difficulty in seeing the sun and the moon when the sky is clear?" We said, "No." He said, "So you will have no difficulty in seeing your Lord on that Day as you have no difficulty in seeing the sun and the moon (in a clear sky)." The Prophet then said, "Somebody will then announce, 'Let every nation follow what they used to worship.' So the companions of the cross will go with their cross, and the idolators (will go) with their idols, and the companions of every god (false deities) (will go) with their god, till there remain those who used to worship Allah, both the obedient ones and the mischievous ones, and some of the people of the Scripture. Then Hell will be presented to them as if it were a mirage. Then it will be said to the jews, "What did you use to worship?' They will reply, 'We used to worship ezra, the son of Allah.' It will be said to them, 'You are liars, for Allah has neither a wife nor a son. What do you want (now)?' They will reply, 'We want You to provide us with water.' Then it will be said to them 'Drink,' and they will fall down in Hell (instead). Then it will be said to the Christians, 'What did you use to worship?' They will reply, 'We used to worship Messiah, the son of Allah.' It will be said, 'You are liars, for Allah has neither a wife nor a son. What: do you want (now)?' They will say, 'We want You to provide us with water.' It will be said to them, 'Drink,' and they will fall down in Hell (instead). When there remain only those who used to worship Allah (Alone), both the obedient ones and the mischievous ones, it will be said to them, 'What keeps you here when all the people have gone?' They will say, 'We parted with them (in the world) when we were in greater need of them than we are today, we heard the call of one proclaiming, 'Let every nation follow what they used to worship,' and now we are waiting for our Lord.' Then the Almighty will come to them in a shape other than the one which they saw the first time, and He will say, 'I am your Lord,' and they will say, 'You are not our Lord.' And none will speak: to Him then but the Prophets, and then it will be said to them, 'Do you know any sign by which you can recognize Him?' They will say. 'The Shin,' and so Allah will then uncover His Shin whereupon every believer will prostrate before Him and there will remain those who used to prostrate before Him just for showing off and for gaining good reputation. These people will try to prostrate but their backs will be rigid like one piece of a wood (and they will not be able to prostrate). Then the bridge will be laid across Hell." We, the companions of the Prophet said, "O Allah's Apostle! What is the bridge?' He said, "It is a slippery (bridge) on which there are clamps and (Hooks like) a thorny seed that is wide at one side and narrow at the other and has thorns with bent ends. Such a thorny seed is found in Najd and is called As-Sa'dan. Some of the believers will cross the bridge as quickly as the wink of an eye, some others as quick as lightning, a strong wind, fast horses or she-camels. So some will be safe without any harm; some will be safe after receiving some scratches, and some will fall down into Hell (Fire). The last person will cross by being dragged (over the bridge)." The Prophet said, "You (Muslims) cannot be more pressing in claiming from me a right that has been clearly proved to be yours than the believers in interceding with Almighty for their (Muslim) brothers on that Day, when they see themselves safe. They will say, 'O Allah! (Save) our brothers (for they) used to pray with us, fast with us and also do good deeds with us.' Allah will say, 'Go and take out (of Hell) anyone in whose heart you find faith equal to the weight of one (gold) Dinar.' Allah will forbid the Fire to burn the faces of those sinners. They will go to them and find some of them in Hell (Fire) up to their feet, and some up to the middle of their legs. So they will take out those whom they will recognize and then they will return, and Allah will say (to them), 'Go and take out (of Hell) anyone in whose heart you find faith equal to the weight of one half Dinar.' They will take out whomever they will recognize and return, and then Allah will say, 'Go and take out (of Hell) anyone in whose heart you find faith equal to the weight of an atom (or a smallest ant), and so they will take out all those whom they will recognize." Abu Sa'id said: If you do not believe me then read the Holy Verse:-- 'Surely! Allah wrongs not even of the weight of an atom (or a smallest ant) but if there is any good (done) He doubles it.' (4.40) The Prophet added, "Then the prophets and Angels and the believers will intercede, and (last of all) the Almighty (Allah) will say, 'Now remains My Intercession. He will then hold a handful of the Fire from which He will take out some people whose bodies have been burnt, and they will be thrown into a river at the entrance of Paradise, called the water of life. They will grow on its banks, as a seed carried by the torrent grows. You have noticed how it grows beside a rock or beside a tree, and how the side facing the sun is usually green while the side facing the shade is white. Those people will come out (of the River of Life) like pearls, and they will have (golden) necklaces, and then they will enter Paradise whereupon the people of Paradise will say, 'These are the people emancipated by the Beneficent. He has admitted them into Paradise without them having done any good deeds and without sending forth any good (for themselves).' Then it will be said to them, 'For you is what you have seen and its equivalent as well.'" (Book #93, Hadith #532s)
http://www.searchtruth.com/book_display ... =532s#532s

Either saying the Shahadah sincerely will mean that anyone who says it will be denied hellfire, or that some Muslims, despite having said it sincerely, will go to hell.
steps wrote: The right of the people , Muslims and non-Muslims

The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) asked one group of his companions, “Do you know who the bankrupt person is?�They said, “A bankrupt person amongst us is the one who has neither money nor property.�The Prophet (pbuh) said, “The bankrupt person of my nation is he who would come on the Day of Resurrection with prayer and fast and giving great amounts in charity. And at the same time, he would come having abused this one, and slandered that one, and consumed the wealth of the other unlawfully, and shed the blood of yet others and having beaten others. Then any person whom he has wronged will be given from his good deeds on that Day. And if his good deeds are exhausted until he clears the account concerning all of the people he has oppressed, the sins of those people whom he has wronged will be thrown unto his account and after that, he will be thrown into the hellfire.]

The Conditions of La ilaha illa Allah [ Shahadah ]

http://sunnahonline.com/library/beliefs ... illa-allah
Salaam Alaikum, and thank you for explaining. If a person takes the Shahadah and does not meet the conditions and goes to hellfire, then Muhammad was not truthful when he stated that saying "La ilaha illa Allah" or "La ilaha illa Allah Muhammad ar-rasul Allah" will mean that a person will not enter hellfire. Obviously, some who say this phrase will enter it.
steps wrote: Not you nor I or the owner of Station of Praise and Glory in the judgment day the great prophet Mohammad peace be upon him know who will say / or said the Shahadah sincerely . only Allah knows . therefore this case belongs to Allah only he knows the pure intentions .

For example :

the hypocrites during the time of prophet Mohammad and in our time.
They used to say the Shahadah , but Allah says about them : [145. The Hypocrites will be in the lowest depths of the Fire: no helper wilt thou find for them;- ]

There are the Rafida , the Sufism , the Murji'ah all of them said the Shahadah .

To be more specific :

We believe that anyone said the Shahadah sincerely will enter the Garden of Eden , but we do not have the right to point that this person will enter the Paradise or that person will enter hellfire , except those who Allah spoke about them such as the prophets peace be upon them all .because only Allah knows the hearts and the intentions .

For example : we believe the atheists in hellfire , but I do not have the right to say TroubledMan or Divine Insight in hell , or to say about myself that I am in the Garden of Eden.

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upqn him) as saying: Verily Allah does not look to your faces and your wealth but He looks to your heart and to your deeds.

Your claim same as the claim of Murjiah

http://www.kalamullah.com/sects03.html
Thanks for explaining, but I think the problem still remains. If stating the shahadah sincerely is supposed to guarantee that one will not to go to hell, then how can it be that some Muslims will be in hell for a while after they are judged? Either saying the shahadah sincerely will mean that Muslims will not enter hell, or if some Muslims do enter hell for a certain while it will have meant that saying it sincerely will not guarantee that a person does not enter hellfire. There is a contradiction here.

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