Quran only recognizes defensive war, no offensive war

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Bigmo
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Quran only recognizes defensive war, no offensive war

Post #1

Post by Bigmo »

After 9-11 there has been various debates about Islam. Some have said that the terrorist are Islam's true spoken. The so called moderates practice taqiya. Taqiya is the deliberate lying for the faith. They say Islam is a violent religion that commands Muslims to kill non Muslim. Non Muslims have 3 choices, either they convert, pay the jizya(tax) or die. They say Muhammad was peaceful for PR reasons and once strong showed his true colors and preached violent jihad. They say all the peaceful verses were abrogated after his final victory with this verse:

9.5. But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

And also this verse:

9.29. Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

This verses are chosen for a reason. When read alone it implies a command to attack until they convert. Of course there are other verses in the Koran that talks about fighting. But why do they tend to focus on this one? Its simple, the other verses tend to show the defensive nature of the jihad and also the malicious intent and behavior of the pagans. Thus never cited. Lets look at some of them:

2.190. Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors

2.191. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith

2.193. And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God, but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression

Also:

2.217. They ask thee concerning fighting in the Prohibited Month. Say: "Fighting therein is a grave (offence); but graver is it in the sight of God to prevent access to the path of God, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, and drive out its members." Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. Nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can. And if any of you Turn back from their faith and die in unbelief, their works will bear no fruit in this life and in the Hereafter; they will be companions of the Fire and will abide therein.

All these verses talks about fighting, however within these verses the defensive nature of the verses and the malicious behavior of the pagans is cited. Thus those who wish to attack Islam never cite those verses. Its a deliberate attempt to hide what the Koran as saying and using selective verses to imply what they know the verses does not mean.

Lets however look at the verse that is often cited. This time we will take the verses before and after it to see what is the context this verse is talking.

9.4. (But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for God loveth the righteous.

9.5. But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

6. If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah. and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge. 7. How can there be a league, before Allah and His Messenger, with the Pagans, except those with whom ye made a treaty near the sacred Mosque? As long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for Allah doth love the righteous.


Also in the same chapter it explains the reason behind all of these battles fought

9.13. Will ye not fight people who violated their oaths, plotted to expel the Messenger, and took the aggressive by being the first (to assault) you? Do ye fear them? Nay, it is God Whom ye should more justly fear, if ye believe!


The verses clearly indicate that no forced conversion was there.There are standards that the Koran established for fighting.

As for such who do not fight you on account of faith, or drive you forth from your homelands, God does not forbid you to show them kindness and to deal with them with equity, for God loves those who act equitably. God only forbids you to turn in friendship towards such as fight against you because of faith and drive you forth from your homelands or aid in driving you forth . As for those from among you who turn towards them for alliance, it is they who are wrongdoers. 60:8-9

Permission (to fight) is given to those against whom war is being wrongfully waged, and verily, God has indeed the power to aid them. Those who have been driven from their homelands in defiance of right for no other reason than their saying, ‘Our Lord is God.’ 22:39-40

These verses show us clearly that the battles the believers fought was purely for defensive purposes as the believers were being persecuted because they believed in the teachings of the Quran. The pagans wanted the Quran to cease to exist and wanted the prophet and his followers to perish. This is why freedom of religion in the Quran is sacrosanct. The Koran more than any other literature guaranteed the absolute right for freedom of belief and expression and thought.


The Koran makes clear the job of the prophet:

16:82 But if they turn away from you, your only duty is a clear delivery of the Message .

6:107 Yet if God had so willed, they would not have ascribed Divinity to aught besides Him; hence, We have not made you their keeper, nor are you a guardian over them.

4:79-80 Say:'Whatever good betides you is from God and whatever evil betides you is from your own self and that We have sent you to mankind only as a messenger and all sufficing is God as witness. Whoso obeys the Messenger, he indeed obeys God. And for those who turn away, We have not sent you as a keeper."

11:28 He (Noah) said "O my people! think over it! If I act upon a clear direction from my Lord who has bestowed on me from Himself the Merciful talent of seeing the right way, a way which you cannot see for yourself, does it follow that we can force you to take the right path when you definitely decline to take it?°

17:53-54 And tell my servants that they should speak in a most kindly manner. Verily, Satan is always ready to stir up discord between men; for verily; Satan is mans foe .... Hence, We have not sent you with power to determine their Faith.

88:21 22; And so, exhort them your task is only to exhort; you cannot compel them to believe.

But most of all the Koran asks the prophet himself this question:

10.99-100. If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then compel mankind, against their will, to believe! No soul can believe, except by the will of God, and He will place doubt (or obscurity) on those who will not understand

Then again the Quran tells us:

109.1-6 Say : O ye that reject Faith,! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship, And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship, To you be your Way, and to me mine

There is nothing even called conquest in the Koran and there is nothing called paying taxes and offensive war and spreading faith by the sword are not Koranic whatsoever and is a direct disobedience to the orders of the Koran. Jizya in the Quran came when the believers were entering Mecca where they were forced into exile and left their homeland losing their livlihoods, homes and businesses. Jizya was never mentioned except upon the pagans of Mecca. Jizya was a war reparation and compensation for damages. The prophet was in Medina where many non believers lived under his domain but was never ordered to seek Jizya. Later Muslim authorities applied Jizya to anyone living under a Muslim ruler who are not Muslims as a form of tax. This is not the context it appears in the Quran.

So the Sunni/Shia concept that peaceful verses were abrogated by later verses that moved from defensive war to offensive has no backing from the Quran. This is because the permission allowed to fight has been outlined in the Quran. Only when provoked and forced should we fight. The prophet was a victim of religious coercion and persecution for religious propagation.

“The contemporary Islamic al-Azhar influential scholar, Muhammad Sa`id Ramadan al-Buti, says in his well-known research: “The verse (9:5) does not leave any room in the mind to conjecture about what is called defensive war. This verse asserts that holy war which is demanded in Islamic law is not a defensive war, because it could legitimately be an offensive war. That is the apex and most honorable of all Holy wars. Its goal is the exaltation of the word of Allah and the construction of Islamic society and the establishment of Allah’s kingdom on Earth regardless the means. It is legal to carry on an offensive Holy War.� �

“Al-Suyuti does not see 2:256 abrogated by 9:73, but a case of delaying or postponing the command to fight the infidels until the Muslims become strong. When they were weak, they were commanded to endure and be patient. The first verse that was revealed in the Qur’an about fighting in Medina is Surah 2 verse 190, until Surah 9 was revealed, and it was cancelled by Surah 9 verse 5. �

So we can see how the Islamic sects abrogated many the defensive war verses claiming verse 9.5 abrogated the defensive war only verses and changed it to offensive war. They believe in this due to the following hadith recorded in Bukhari's and Muslim's collections. Hadiths were compiled two centuries after the Quran was revealed.

Ibn ‘Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, “I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah.� (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.)�

This hadith violates tens of Quranic commands about freedom and defensive war.


In the Quran we see the concept of religious persecution was a hallmark of pagan societies and oppressive tyrants.

They said: "O Shuayb! Much of what thou sayest we do not understand! In fact among us we see that thou hast no strength! Were it not for thy family, we should certainly have stoned thee! For thou hast among us no great position!" 11:91

(The father) replied: "Dost thou hate my gods, O Abraham? If thou forbear not, I will indeed stone thee : now get away from me for a good long while!" .19:46

The (people) said: "For us, We augur an evil omen from you: if ye desist not, we will certainly stone you , or a grievous punishment indeed will be inflicted on you by us." 36:18

They said: "If thou desist not, O Noah! thou shalt be stoned. 26.116

Pharaoh said, "Did you believe in him without my permission? This must be a conspiracy you schemed in the city, in order to take its people away. You will surely find out. "I will cut your hands and feet on alternate sides, then I will crucify you all." 7.123-124

All of these verses tell us how the prophets were persecuted for their religious propogation. The prophet of the Quran met the same fate. He was ordered to fight back and to complete the message of the Quran. But he was also ordered to limit his duty to preaching. If the people decide on him to judge between them than he is to do with justice.

Quran is peace

steps
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Post #11

Post by steps »

[Replying to post 9 by Divine Insight]

Also I will say : of course . you will never reach the Islamic morals .

My comment is about the results of one wrong act

[Replying to post 4 by steps]

Those who have sex in public will never touch the meaning of morality . and they are increasing in the western world . keep evolving

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The attack against Islam is only the last efforts for the unbelievers to delay the rise of Islam .
And very soon you will see something will turn the world upside down

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Jesus was not Progressive Christian . the bright faked names are tricking you.

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1st : affirmative fact : [32. Fain would they extinguish Allah.s light with their mouths, but Allah will not allow but that His light should be perfected, even though the Unbelievers may detest (it).33. It is He Who hath sent His Messenger with guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it). ]

2nd : affirmative fact : [36. The Unbelievers spend their wealth to hinder (man) from the path of Allah, and so will they continue to spend; but in the end they will have (only) regrets and sighs; at length they will be overcome: and the Unbelievers will be gathered together to Hell;-]

--------------------------------

"Islam is the fastest-growing religion in America, a guide and pillar of stability for many of our people..." HILLARY RODMAN CLINTON, Los Angeles Times, May 31, 1996, p.3
Already more than a billion-people strong, Islam is the world’s fastest-growing religion. ABCNEWS,Abcnews.com
"Islam is the fastest-growing religion in the country." NEWSDAY, March 7, 1989, p.4
"Islam is the fastest-growing religion in the United States..." NEW YORK TIMES, Feb 21, 1989, p.1
Moslems are the world's fastest-growing group..." USA TODAY, The population referance bureau, Feb. 17, 1989, p.4A
"Islam is the fastest growing religion in North America." TIMES MAGAZINE
"Islam continues to grow in America, and no one can doubt that!" CNN, December 15, 1995

You wish but the fact is different .

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Post #12

Post by Divine Insight »

steps wrote: Many experts confirmed 9/11 is an inside job .
Your religion is extremely pathetic if it causes people to become this paranoid. So how do you excuse all the suicide bombings etc.? Are all of those inside jobs too? :-k

Also, didn't Obama Bin Laden basically celebrate his jihad against the USA in videos he made not even remotely denying it?

Your claim that 9/11 was an inside job is so utterly absurd that all you've done at this point is verify your radical unjustified views. So anything you say can be assured to be extremist, radical, and totally without any credibility whatsoever.

As far as I'm concerned I see absolutely no reason to believe that you are anything other than a supporter and possible member of Al-Qaida itself.

Bin Laden confessed in his own videos and was proud of what he had done.

So any conspiracy theories that try to claim that it was an inside job done by the government of the USA against its own people is clearly hogwash.

All Muslims and members of Islam should have been quick to speak out against this kind of violence. The fact that they didn't speak out speaks volumes of how extremely radical, dangerous, and evil Islam truly is.

If there was any truth to the Abrahamic religions at all I would be totally convinced that Islam is the creation of Satan himself to deceive people away from the Christian Christ who represents the true Son of God.

But, in truth, I think the whole Abrahamic mythology is sick all the way around. So I don't believe a demonic Satan has anything to do with it. I think the people who created the religion and support it are themselves the ones who are evil.

But clearly it is an evil religion. So perhaps the decent people on planet earth should wage war against Islam directly. I'm sure even the atheists would love to see humanity cured from the spiritual cancer of Islam.
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Post #13

Post by Divine Insight »

steps wrote: Those who have sex in public will never touch the meaning of morality . and they are increasing in the western world . keep evolving
And those who are hell-bent on perverting every human activity will never touch the meaning of sanity or maturity.

They will remain immature perverts until the end of time.
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Post #14

Post by steps »

Divine Insight wrote:
steps wrote: Many experts confirmed 9/11 is an inside job .
Your religion is extremely pathetic if it causes people to become this paranoid. So how do you excuse all the suicide bombings etc.? Are all of those inside jobs too? :-k

Also, didn't Obama Bin Laden basically celebrate his jihad against the USA in videos he made not even remotely denying it?

Your claim that 9/11 was an inside job is so utterly absurd that all you've done at this point is verify your radical unjustified views. So anything you say can be assured to be extremist, radical, and totally without any credibility whatsoever.

As far as I'm concerned I see absolutely no reason to believe that you are anything other than a supporter and possible member of Al-Qaida itself.

Bin Laden confessed in his own videos and was proud of what he had done.

So any conspiracy theories that try to claim that it was an inside job done by the government of the USA against its own people is clearly hogwash.

All Muslims and members of Islam should have been quick to speak out against this kind of violence. The fact that they didn't speak out speaks volumes of how extremely radical, dangerous, and evil Islam truly is.

If there was any truth to the Abrahamic religions at all I would be totally convinced that Islam is the creation of Satan himself to deceive people away from the Christian Christ who represents the true Son of God.

But, in truth, I think the whole Abrahamic mythology is sick all the way around. So I don't believe a demonic Satan has anything to do with it. I think the people who created the religion and support it are themselves the ones who are evil.

But clearly it is an evil religion. So perhaps the decent people on planet earth should wage war against Islam directly. I'm sure even the atheists would love to see humanity cured from the spiritual cancer of Islam.
Be cool , I did not say this or the Muslims . and the Muslims do not care about the disloyal Rulers statements .

The Americans are Saying : 9/11 was an inside Job . and they are heavy weights in the Americans society " Doctors , engineers , physicists , experts in explosives , Political Analysts

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Post #15

Post by steps »

Our friend Bigmo , wrote verse 217 from Surah 2 . but ignored verse 216 at the same Surah .

[216. Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.]

As it was written on the sons of Israel , also at the same Suarh

[246. Hast thou not Turned thy vision to the Chiefs of the Children of Israel after (the time of) Moses? they said to a prophet (That was) among them: "Appoint for us a king, that we May fight in the cause of Allah." He said: "Is it not possible, if ye were commanded to fight, that that ye will not fight?" They said: "How could we refuse to fight in the cause of Allah, seeing that we were turned out of our homes and our families?" but when they were commanded to fight, they turned back, except a small band among them. But Allah Has full knowledge of those who do wrong.]

And it is written on Jesus at his return , he will not come to spread a new religion or to give new Laws , No .

The religion has been established before 1400 years by prophet Mohammad , and the Laws have been written on the Quran , and Jesus is going to apply them . He will return to revenge from the enemy of Allah .

During his first mission he was prepearing the real followers [ the believers of Allah ] for this war :

Jesus said in 12 Luke: [49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? 50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: ]

Jesus said in 10Mat : [34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.]

Jesus said in 22luke : [36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. ]

one of the main causes of offensive war :

Not enslaving people , not capturing the lands , and no earthly reasons , or personal targets . the fight is prescribed for the believers to replace the evil systems by new system . this system rules on the land of Allah by the Laws of Allah .

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