Another test for TG123

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steps
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Another test for TG123

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Post by steps »

If you fail to analyze the prophecy . then my suggestion to study your religion and your book
Firstly . [ the hell is waiting for its fuel from men and stones ] .
The Christians claimed this prophecy about Jesus . but before and after the appearance of Prophet Mohammad , it has nothing with Jesus peace be upon him .

Isaiah , Chapter 42 :
( [1]Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. [2]He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. [3]A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. [4]He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law. [5]Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:[6]I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; [7]To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. [8]I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. [9]Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them. [10]Sing unto the LORD a new song, and his praise from the end of the earth, ye that go down to the sea, and all that is therein; the isles, and the inhabitants thereof. [11]Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voice, the villages that Kedar doth inhabit: let the inhabitants of the rock(of Sela) sing ( aloud) , let them shout from the top of the mountains. [12]Let them give glory unto the LORD, and declare his praise in the islands. [13]The LORD shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: he shall cry, yea, roar; he shall prevail against his enemies. [14]I have long time holden my peace; I have been still, and refrained myself: now will I cry like a travailing woman; I will destroy and devour at once. [15]I will make waste mountains and hills, and dry up all their herbs; and I will make the rivers islands, and I will dry up the pools. [16]And I will bring the blind by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them. [17]They shall be turned back, they shall be greatly ashamed, that trust in graven images, that say to the molten images, Ye are our gods. [18]Hear, ye deaf; and look, ye blind, that ye may see. [19]Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the LORD's servant? )
1- ( Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect )
Jesus: is not a servant .. he is God's son as the Christians claimed … is he the elector ? No
Mohammed : he admitted this he said : (( I am servant of Allah , and a messenger from him )) one of his name is the elector .
2-(he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles )
Jesus: did he come to the Gentiles ? No … Jesus nation knew God before his coming.
Mohammed : did he come to the Gentiles ? yes . any nation not from the Jew they were from Gentiles .
3- (He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. [3]A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. )
Jesus: he did not complete his message as the bible claimed : ((I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now)) [Joh:16:12]
Mohammed : he completed his message . in the Quran : (This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. )
4- (I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles )
Jesus: did Allah protected him from people ? as the Christians claim : the Jews [ his enemy ]killed him . Also Jesus is not a light of the Gentiles . Jesus said : ((But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. ))[mat 15:24] ((These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.)) [mat 10 : 5-6]
Mohammed : Allah protected from people him until he completed his message in Quran (O Apostle! proclaim the (Message) which hath been sent to thee from thy Lord. If thou didst not, thou wouldst not have fulfilled and proclaimed His Mission. And Allah will defend thee from men (who mean mischief). Mohammed is light of the Gentiles .
5- ( To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house . I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images )
Jesus Nation : they were not blind eyes they were not sitting in darkness they have the book of Moses.
Mohammed Nation: yes they were blind … and they were in darkness … because Mohammed was the first prophet to them and they were praise to graven images.
6- (Sing unto the LORD a new song, and his praise from the end of the earth, ye that go down to the sea, and all that is therein; the isles, and the inhabitants thereof. Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voice, the villages that Kedar doth inhabit: let the inhabitants of the rock(of Sela) sing ( aloud) , let them shout from the top of the mountains. )
Jesus: he did not came with a new song . he was following the Law of Moses …. did not live in the villages that Kedar doth inhabit. And his nation did lift up their voice from Kedar villages .
Mohammed : does he came with a new song ? yes . he came with the Islam ( new law ) …. Was he in the villages that Kedar doth inhabit ? yes . Kedar was son of Ishmael . and Mohammed is son of Ishmael all of them lived in Baca …. does Mohammed nation lift up their voice from Kedar villages ? yes .. this is the call of prayer … Muslimes must lift up voice for prayer each day 5 times .

7- (The LORD shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: he shall cry, yea, roar; he shall prevail against his enemies.)
Jesus : was he a mighty man and go into wars ? no . he never went into wars …. Did he prevail against his enemies ? no they killed him (as the bible claimed )
Mohammed : was he a mighty man and go into wars ? yes . he went into 27 wars ... does he prevail against his enemies ? yes … and his followers completed his way by spreading the Islam to the world by wars against ( Romance – Persian ) until Islam reach Spain in Europe
8- ( I have long time holden my peace; I have been still, and refrained myself : now will I cry like a travailing woman; I will destroy and devour at once.)
The word (Islam) is coming from the word (Salam) … and the word ( Salam means Peace ) let us see what Christian do with this word
NASB: "I have kept silent for a long time, I have kept still and restrained Myself
GWT: I have been silent for a long time. I kept quiet and held myself back.
KJV: I have long time holden my peace; I have been still, and refrained myself:
ASV: I have long time holden my peace; I have been still, and refrained myself:
BBE: I have long been quiet, I have kept myself in and done nothing:
DBY: Long time have I holden my peace; I have been still, I have restrained myself:
JPS: I have long time held My peace, I have been still, and refrained Myself;
WBS: I have long time held my peace; I have been still, and restrained myself:
WEB: "I have been silent a long time. I have been quiet and restrained myself.
YLT: I have kept silent from of old, I keep silent, I refrain myself,

Allah told us ( before 1400 years) about them in several verses(Of the Jews there are those who displace words from their (right) places, and say: "We hear and we disobey"; )(And remember Allah took a Covenant from the People of the Book, to make it known and clear to mankind, and not to hide it; but they threw it away behind their backs, and purchased with it some miserable gain! and vile was the bargain they made!)(Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: "This is from Allah," to traffic with it for a miserable price! Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby. )

9- (And I will bring the blind by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them.)Also Allah speaks about the blind … from the Gentiles
Jess's nation : they knew the way . they knew the path … God sent to the sons of Israel many prophets before Jesus . so they are not blind
Mohammed's nation : sure this way do not know before … sure those paths not known for them before… because he was the only prophet for the Gentiles … and also Allah never forsake us .

--------------------------

1- Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
Until "...delighted"
If we consider "mine elect" as a noun then Mine elect = God's elect = Mustafa (in Arabic) the name of our Prophet Muhammad Mustafa (SAV). Otherwise it is true for all prophets of God.
After "..delighted..."
All prophets after Jacob (pbuh) mentioned in the Bible came for Israelites not Gentiles. This includes Jesus (pbuh) (look Matthew 15:21-26, Matthew 10:5-6 and many more). And Jesus (pbuh) did not stay on earth long enough to do that. But Muhammad (pbuh) was a Gentile and he brought message and judgment to Gentiles first.
2- He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heart in the street.
Here the word "not cry" is used as "not complain about the duty that I gave him" because we see in verse 13 God says "... he shall cry". There is a difference between these two using of the word cry.Now if we read your Bible Matthew 26:39-42, we can not say that Jesus (pbuh) never complained.
But if you read the life of Muhammad (pbuh) , the history of Islam you cannot find even one complaining word of Muhammad (pbuh) about the mission (duty) that given by God Almighty.
3- A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
This is true almost all prophets.
4- He shall not fall nor be discouraged, till he had set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.
Until "earth:"
Jesus (pbuh) couldn't finish his mission which had continued only for ~3 years. He fall and discouraged (you will find many places in NT about this) and he couldn't set judgment in the earth, because his followers were a few and they had little faith (you will find many places in NT about this). And yet they "forsook him and fled" at the time that Roman soldiers came to arrest Jesus (pbuh). And Jesus (pbuh) himself says "My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence " John 18:36
But Muhammad established a state and ruled with his law that given by God. Therefore he set judgment in the earth and he did not fall and he was not discouraged.
After "earth:"
Here God says "his law", and in verse 9 says "former things come to pass". This means that he (new prophet) will bring new law. But if we read the Bible again, we see that Jesus (pbuh) says Matthew 5:17 "Think not I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy but fulfill". And if we read further we understand that Jesus (pbuh) did not come with new law.
But Muhammad (pbuh) came with new law.
5- Thus saith God the Lord, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which come out of it ; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein;
6- I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles.
Muhammad (pbuh) is a descendent of Abraham (pbuh) and came to Gentiles.
7- To open blind eyes, to bring out prisoners from prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
"To open blind eyes". If we read verse 19 we will see more clearly that the word blind is used as idiom.
Meaning, he will show people the things that they did not know and will show people how to comprehend God and His message.
Prison is used as an idiom too. If a spirit doesn't know God and doesn't obey Him, then that spirit is in prison of Satan, and that person is prisoner of Satan. By accepting oneness of God and by obeying Him, the spirit of a person will be free and this makes that person free from prison of Satan. And in verse 8 God clearly states what He meant.
8- I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
(With explanation of verse 7) we understand that the person that God is talking about will come to a place that people worship idols as their gods. If we read verse 17, we may understand this better.
From verses 7 and 8, we understand that God is not talking about Jesus (pbuh) but Muhammad (pbuh). Because Jesus (pbuh) came to Israelites and they were not worshipping idols. But Muhammad (pbuh) came during the Jahilliya (ignorance) period of Arabs and destroy the idols. If we read verse 17, it will be understood more clearly.
9- Behold, the former things come to pass, the new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.
As we read in verse 4 and my explanation of it, the person, God is talking about, will come new law. And this person cannot be Jesus (pbuh) because of the reasons stated above. This person is nobody but prophet Muhammad (pbuh).
10- Sing unto the Lord a new song, and his praise, ye that go down to the sea, and all that is therein; the isles and inhabitants thereof.
If you want to hear this new song please listen to someone reciting the Qur'an. The new song that God talking about is Noble Qur'an. If you hear how people recite the Noble Qur'an, you will understand what God is talking about.
11- Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voice, the villages that Kedar doth inhabit: let the inhabitants of the rock sing, let them shout from the top of the mountains.
12- Let them give glory unto the Lord, and declare his praise in the islands.
Kedar is son of Ishmael (pbuh) (Genesis 25:13-16), and has nothing to do with Jesus (pbuh). This verse (verse 11) is not talking about Jesus (pbuh) but Muhammad (pbuh). As you know Muhammad (pbuh) is descendent of Abraham (pbuh) through Ishmael (pbuh). And the cities that they inhabited are in Arabia namely Telma (Tema/Teman), Yathrib (Al-Madinah Al-Munawwarah), Paran (Makkah) etc. And if you observe the ritual of Muslims (especially during Hajj), you will see that cities (Makkah and Al-Madinah) lift up their voices** and people shout and glorify Allah from top of mountains, especially Mt. Arafat**. The rock is the rock that God sent to Adam from heaven, and it is located at the side of Kaba. As you know Muslim people make 7 tours around Kaba and kiss this rock while glorifying the Lord.
**in fact, you can see this in every Muslim country, when people are called to prayer, muezzins read the Adhan (calling to prayer) that sounds like a song. And even far from city you can hear this Adhan, it will look like that city lifted up its voice. Meaning of Adhan is
Allah is the greatest, Allah is the greatest
Allah is the greatest, Allah is the greatest
I'm witness that there is no god but Allah
I'm witness that there is no god but Allah
I'm witness that Muhammad is His messenger
Come to prayer, come to prayer
Come to salvation, come to salvation
Allah is the greatest, Allah is the greatest
There is no god but Allah.
13- The Lord shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: he shall cry, yea, roar; he shall prevail against his enemies.
14- I have long time holding my peace; I have been still, and refrained myself: now will I cry like a travailing women; I will destroy and devour at once.
Until Islam, God had never ordered any prophets to fight against unbelievers to destroy them. Believer were fighting only to defense themselves. But Allah ordered Muhammad (pbuh) to fight against unbelievers, and slay them if they don't accept Allah. And if you study the life of Muhammad (pbuh) you will see that he was the commander of the army and he fought with his sword and he lost one of his teeth during the war. And God destroyed unbelievers at once (with only during of one prophet).
15- I will make waste mountains and hills, and dry up all their herbs; and I will make the rivers islands, and I will dry up the pools.
Here God is talking about deserts of Arabia. In desert place, mountains and hills of sand are not steady, they diminish with winds and another one appears. And you can not find rivers but small water islands as described by God.
Also this verse has nothing to do with Jesus (pbuh)
16- And I will bring blind by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked thins straight. These things I will do unto them, and not forsake them.
As God says above, He did not send to pagan Arabs until Muhammad (pbuh) as stated in verse 22. Until Muhammad (pbuh), Arabs were worshipping idols, killing baby girls, drinking alcohol, gambling etc. Allah a way (Islam, unity of God) that they did not know, made Qur'an and Muhammad (pbuh) guided (as light before) them, and made crooked things (mentioned above) straight.
This verse also has nothing to do with Jesus (pbuh).
17- They shall be turned back, they shall be greatly ashamed, that trust in graven images, that they say to the molten images, Ye are our gods.
This is exactly what pagan Arabs did, when they heard the message that given to Muhammad (pbuh) by God. They offered money, authority and many things to our prophet and he did not accept any of them. They ashamed, because they thought that all other Arabs will mock them, and will not visit the Kaba (at that time they were using Kaba as place of the idols that all other Arab tribes were using) and this would be their economic end. And they turned graven images and they asked help from those images.
This verse also has nothing to do with Jesus (pbuh).
18- Hear, ye deaf; and look, ye blind, that ye may see.
19- Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the Lord's servant?
20- Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not.
In this verses God talks to Christians and Jews.
In verse 18: Hear you (Christians and Jews) deaf, and look you (Christians and Jews) blind, you may see that above things are happening every day in Islamic world.
In verse 19: God says, "Who is blind or deaf? My messenger (Muhammad (pbuh) and his followers) or you?
In verse 20: You do see these things but you don't pay attention, you don't comprehend. You do hear the Qur'an and you know that Muslims sing new song and Muslim cities lift up their voices and they shout from top of mountains, they glorify Me, but you don't pay attention, you don't comprehend.
Indeed, Christians and Jews think that Muslims do not see the right path (blind). Even you wrote that "What Muslims do not understand...".
These verses also have nothing to do with Jesus (pbuh).
21- The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.
In Qur'an many places Allah calls Prophet as "My friend" (friend is not exactly translation for Habeeb/Habib, because Habeeb is closer then friend but I couldn't find another word for this). And He magnified the law and people still follow his law. Jesus did not bring new law, and non of the Christians follows the law that he was following.
This verse also has nothing to do with Jesus (pbuh)
22- But this is a people robbed and spoiled; they are all of them snared in holes, and they are hid in prison houses: they are for a prey, and none delivereth; for a spoil, and none saith, Restore.
In this verse God talks about corrupted society of pagan Arabs. And, indeed, He had not send any prophets to Arabs until Muhammad (pbuh). That's why "none saith, Restore". But up to Jesus (pbuh), many prophets had been send to Israelites.
This verse also has nothing to do with Jesus (pbuh)
23- Who among you will give ear to this? who will hearken and hear for the time to come?
Who will become Muslim?
Conclusion:
Isaiah 42 describes Prophet Muhammad.

TG123
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Re: Another test for TG123

Post #2

Post by TG123 »

Salaam Alaikum, steps. This is a great post, and it will take me a few days to answer it, since I want to give your well written and detailed question a well written and detailed answer.

I will respond to it before I answer to your response on the hadiths about the Day of Judgement. InshAllah I will respond by next week at the latest.

Thank you for your patience.

TG123

TG123
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Re: Another test for TG123

Post #3

Post by TG123 »

Salaam Alaikum, steps.
steps wrote: If you fail to analyze the prophecy . then my suggestion to study your religion and your book
Firstly . [ the hell is waiting for its fuel from men and stones ] .
The Christians claimed this prophecy about Jesus . but before and after the appearance of Prophet Mohammad , it has nothing with Jesus peace be upon him .
On the contrary, it has everything to do with Jesus and nothing to do with Muhammad.
steps wrote:
Isaiah , Chapter 42 :
( [1]Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. [2]He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. [3]A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. [4]He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law. [5]Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:[6]I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; [7]To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. [8]I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. [9]Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them. [10]Sing unto the LORD a new song, and his praise from the end of the earth, ye that go down to the sea, and all that is therein; the isles, and the inhabitants thereof. [11]Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voice, the villages that Kedar doth inhabit: let the inhabitants of the rock(of Sela) sing ( aloud) , let them shout from the top of the mountains. [12]Let them give glory unto the LORD, and declare his praise in the islands. [13]The LORD shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: he shall cry, yea, roar; he shall prevail against his enemies. [14]I have long time holden my peace; I have been still, and refrained myself: now will I cry like a travailing woman; I will destroy and devour at once. [15]I will make waste mountains and hills, and dry up all their herbs; and I will make the rivers islands, and I will dry up the pools. [16]And I will bring the blind by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them. [17]They shall be turned back, they shall be greatly ashamed, that trust in graven images, that say to the molten images, Ye are our gods. [18]Hear, ye deaf; and look, ye blind, that ye may see. [19]Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the LORD's servant? )
steps wrote: This is the verse, let's examine it.
steps wrote: 1- ( Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect )
Jesus: is not a servant .. he is God's son as the Christians claimed … is he the elector ? No
Mohammed : he admitted this he said : (( I am servant of Allah , and a messenger from him )) one of his name is the elector .
Jesus as the Son was inferior to the Father. He voluntarily made Himself inferior, taking on the likeness of man.

Muhammad believed he was serving God, but wasn't. The entity he thought was God gave him wrong historical and scientific information, as well as denied what Jesus did on the cross.
steps wrote: 2-(he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles )
Jesus: did he come to the Gentiles ? No … Jesus nation knew God before his coming.
Mohammed : did he come to the Gentiles ? yes . any nation not from the Jew they were from Gentiles .
Jesus came to the Israelites but when He returns He will judge all the nations- Gentiles as well as Jews.
It wouldn't be true to say that Muhammad brought judgement to the Gentiles, because he enforced his laws on the Jews as well as the Muslims. He also did not enforce them on non-Arab Gentiles.
steps wrote: 3- (He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. [3]A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. )
Jesus: he did not complete his message as the bible claimed : ((I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now)) [Joh:16:12]
Mohammed : he completed his message . in the Quran : (This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. )
The verse says nothing about the messenger "completing his message".

You forgot Isaiah 42:4.

It says:

He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.


Did Muhammad set judgement in the earth? No, he established Islam in Arabia. He then died.

He will not come again to establish Islam all over the world.

Jesus will come again and establish the Kingdom.
steps wrote: 4- (I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles )
Jesus: did Allah protected him from people ? as the Christians claim : the Jews [ his enemy ]killed him . Also Jesus is not a light of the Gentiles . Jesus said : ((But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. ))[mat 15:24] ((These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.)) [mat 10 : 5-6]
Mohammed : Allah protected from people him until he completed his message in Quran (O Apostle! proclaim the (Message) which hath been sent to thee from thy Lord. If thou didst not, thou wouldst not have fulfilled and proclaimed His Mission. And Allah will defend thee from men (who mean mischief). Mohammed is light of the Gentiles .
Isaiah 42:6 says nothing about God protecting the Messiah from being killed or hurt. After His resurrection, Jesus told His disciples to preach the Gospel to all the nations, including the Gentiles. Matthew 28:16-20.
steps wrote: 5- ( To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house . I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images )
Jesus Nation : they were not blind eyes they were not sitting in darkness they have the book of Moses.
Mohammed Nation: yes they were blind … and they were in darkness … because Mohammed was the first prophet to them and they were praise to graven images.
Was Muhammad the first prophet to the Arabs? Really? Were the Thamud not ancestors of the Arabs? Didn't they get a prophet according to your religion?

Jesus healed the blind both physically and helped people find the Truth and be free from spiritual blindage and bondage.
steps wrote: 6- (Sing unto the LORD a new song, and his praise from the end of the earth, ye that go down to the sea, and all that is therein; the isles, and the inhabitants thereof. Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voice, the villages that Kedar doth inhabit: let the inhabitants of the rock(of Sela) sing ( aloud) , let them shout from the top of the mountains. )
Jesus: he did not came with a new song . he was following the Law of Moses …. did not live in the villages that Kedar doth inhabit. And his nation did lift up their voice from Kedar villages .
Mohammed : does he came with a new song ? yes . he came with the Islam ( new law ) …. Was he in the villages that Kedar doth inhabit ? yes . Kedar was son of Ishmael . and Mohammed is son of Ishmael all of them lived in Baca …. does Mohammed nation lift up their voice from Kedar villages ? yes .. this is the call of prayer … Muslimes must lift up voice for prayer each day 5 times
Jesus preached the Gospel, which is God's full revelation to humanity. He did not live in Arab villages, but He sent His disciples all across the world and when He comes again He will come to the whole world. Did Muhammad come to people on the coast? The isles?
steps wrote: 7- (The LORD shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: he shall cry, yea, roar; he shall prevail against his enemies.)
Jesus : was he a mighty man and go into wars ? no . he never went into wars …. Did he prevail against his enemies ? no they killed him (as the bible claimed )
Mohammed : was he a mighty man and go into wars ? yes . he went into 27 wars ... does he prevail against his enemies ? yes … and his followers completed his way by spreading the Islam to the world by wars against ( Romance – Persian ) until Islam reach Spain in Europe
The LORD is a term for God. Jesus will come again and punish those who did not believe.

If according to you Muhammad = the LORD, you have just said Muhammad is God.
steps wrote: 8- ( I have long time holden my peace; I have been still, and refrained myself : now will I cry like a travailing woman; I will destroy and devour at once.)
The word (Islam) is coming from the word (Salam) … and the word ( Salam means Peace ) let us see what Christian do with this word
NASB: "I have kept silent for a long time, I have kept still and restrained Myself
GWT: I have been silent for a long time. I kept quiet and held myself back.
KJV: I have long time holden my peace; I have been still, and refrained myself:
ASV: I have long time holden my peace; I have been still, and refrained myself:
BBE: I have long been quiet, I have kept myself in and done nothing:
DBY: Long time have I holden my peace; I have been still, I have restrained myself:
JPS: I have long time held My peace, I have been still, and refrained Myself;
WBS: I have long time held my peace; I have been still, and restrained myself:
WEB: "I have been silent a long time. I have been quiet and restrained myself.
YLT: I have kept silent from of old, I keep silent, I refrain myself,

Allah told us ( before 1400 years) about them in several verses(Of the Jews there are those who displace words from their (right) places, and say: "We hear and we disobey"; )(And remember Allah took a Covenant from the People of the Book, to make it known and clear to mankind, and not to hide it; but they threw it away behind their backs, and purchased with it some miserable gain! and vile was the bargain they made!)(Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: "This is from Allah," to traffic with it for a miserable price! Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby. )
Are you saying that Isaiah 42 was originally in Arabic? I'm not following your argument.
steps wrote: 9- (And I will bring the blind by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them.)Also Allah speaks about the blind … from the Gentiles
Jess's nation : they knew the way . they knew the path … God sent to the sons of Israel many prophets before Jesus . so they are not blind
Mohammed's nation : sure this way do not know before … sure those paths not known for them before… because he was the only prophet for the Gentiles … and also Allah never forsake us .
Jesus came to the Samaritan woman at the well, so He did show her the way also. So He also did help the Gentiles see the Truth. Also, when He comes again He will make everyone realize the Truth. He will also bring His judgement on all the earth... something that Muhammad was unable to do.
steps wrote: 1- Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
Until "...delighted"
If we consider "mine elect" as a noun then Mine elect = God's elect = Mustafa (in Arabic) the name of our Prophet Muhammad Mustafa (SAV). Otherwise it is true for all prophets of God.
After "..delighted..."
All prophets after Jacob (pbuh) mentioned in the Bible came for Israelites not Gentiles. This includes Jesus (pbuh) (look Matthew 15:21-26, Matthew 10:5-6 and many more). And Jesus (pbuh) did not stay on earth long enough to do that. But Muhammad (pbuh) was a Gentile and he brought message and judgment to Gentiles first.
Muhammad brought judgement to Jews as well as Gentiles. Jesus will come again to judge the world. Muhammad won't.
steps wrote: 2- He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heart in the street.
Here the word "not cry" is used as "not complain about the duty that I gave him" because we see in verse 13 God says "... he shall cry". There is a difference between these two using of the word cry.Now if we read your Bible Matthew 26:39-42, we can not say that Jesus (pbuh) never complained.
But if you read the life of Muhammad (pbuh) , the history of Islam you cannot find even one complaining word of Muhammad (pbuh) about the mission (duty) that given by God Almighty.
Jesus was not complaning, He was expressing the pain He was feeling.
steps wrote: 3- A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
This is true almost all prophets.
True.
steps wrote: 4- He shall not fall nor be discouraged, till he had set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.
Until "earth:"
Jesus (pbuh) couldn't finish his mission which had continued only for ~3 years. He fall and discouraged (you will find many places in NT about this) and he couldn't set judgment in the earth, because his followers were a few and they had little faith (you will find many places in NT about this). And yet they "forsook him and fled" at the time that Roman soldiers came to arrest Jesus (pbuh). And Jesus (pbuh) himself says "My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence " John 18:36
But Muhammad established a state and ruled with his law that given by God. Therefore he set judgment in the earth and he did not fall and he was not discouraged.
After "earth:"
Here God says "his law", and in verse 9 says "former things come to pass". This means that he (new prophet) will bring new law. But if we read the Bible again, we see that Jesus (pbuh) says Matthew 5:17 "Think not I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy but fulfill". And if we read further we understand that Jesus (pbuh) did not come with new law.
But Muhammad (pbuh) came with new law.
Your argument falls apart here for the simple reason that Muhammad did not bring justice to the earth. There are many parts of the world where people do not follow Islam, and it has been over a milennium since Muhammad died. What he failed to accomplish, Jesus will when He comes again.
steps wrote: 5- Thus saith God the Lord, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which come out of it ; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein;
6- I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles.
Muhammad (pbuh) is a descendent of Abraham (pbuh) and came to Gentiles.
7- To open blind eyes, to bring out prisoners from prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
"To open blind eyes". If we read verse 19 we will see more clearly that the word blind is used as idiom.
Meaning, he will show people the things that they did not know and will show people how to comprehend God and His message.
Prison is used as an idiom too. If a spirit doesn't know God and doesn't obey Him, then that spirit is in prison of Satan, and that person is prisoner of Satan. By accepting oneness of God and by obeying Him, the spirit of a person will be free and this makes that person free from prison of Satan. And in verse 8 God clearly states what He meant.
8- I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
(With explanation of verse 7) we understand that the person that God is talking about will come to a place that people worship idols as their gods. If we read verse 17, we may understand this better.
From verses 7 and 8, we understand that God is not talking about Jesus (pbuh) but Muhammad (pbuh). Because Jesus (pbuh) came to Israelites and they were not worshipping idols. But Muhammad (pbuh) came during the Jahilliya (ignorance) period of Arabs and destroy the idols. If we read verse 17, it will be understood more clearly.
9- Behold, the former things come to pass, the new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.
As we read in verse 4 and my explanation of it, the person, God is talking about, will come new law. And this person cannot be Jesus (pbuh) because of the reasons stated above. This person is nobody but prophet Muhammad (pbuh).
10- Sing unto the Lord a new song, and his praise, ye that go down to the sea, and all that is therein; the isles and inhabitants thereof.
If you want to hear this new song please listen to someone reciting the Qur'an. The new song that God talking about is Noble Qur'an. If you hear how people recite the Noble Qur'an, you will understand what God is talking about.
11- Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voice, the villages that Kedar doth inhabit: let the inhabitants of the rock sing, let them shout from the top of the mountains.
We discussed all of this above.
steps wrote: 12- Let them give glory unto the Lord, and declare his praise in the islands.
Kedar is son of Ishmael (pbuh) (Genesis 25:13-16), and has nothing to do with Jesus (pbuh). This verse (verse 11) is not talking about Jesus (pbuh) but Muhammad (pbuh). As you know Muhammad (pbuh) is descendent of Abraham (pbuh) through Ishmael (pbuh). And the cities that they inhabited are in Arabia namely Telma (Tema/Teman), Yathrib (Al-Madinah Al-Munawwarah), Paran (Makkah) etc. And if you observe the ritual of Muslims (especially during Hajj), you will see that cities (Makkah and Al-Madinah) lift up their voices** and people shout and glorify Allah from top of mountains, especially Mt. Arafat**. The rock is the rock that God sent to Adam from heaven, and it is located at the side of Kaba. As you know Muslim people make 7 tours around Kaba and kiss this rock while glorifying the Lord.
**in fact, you can see this in every Muslim country, when people are called to prayer, muezzins read the Adhan (calling to prayer) that sounds like a song. And even far from city you can hear this Adhan, it will look like that city lifted up its voice. Meaning of Adhan is
Allah is the greatest, Allah is the greatest
Allah is the greatest, Allah is the greatest
I'm witness that there is no god but Allah
I'm witness that there is no god but Allah
I'm witness that Muhammad is His messenger
Come to prayer, come to prayer
Come to salvation, come to salvation
Allah is the greatest, Allah is the greatest
There is no god but Allah.
The difference is that this was supposed to have all been done by the Messiah. Muhammad died before most Muslim countries even existed.
steps wrote: 13- The Lord shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: he shall cry, yea, roar; he shall prevail against his enemies.
14- I have long time holding my peace; I have been still, and refrained myself: now will I cry like a travailing women; I will destroy and devour at once.
Until Islam, God had never ordered any prophets to fight against unbelievers to destroy them. Believer were fighting only to defense themselves. But Allah ordered Muhammad (pbuh) to fight against unbelievers, and slay them if they don't accept Allah. And if you study the life of Muhammad (pbuh) you will see that he was the commander of the army and he fought with his sword and he lost one of his teeth during the war. And God destroyed unbelievers at once (with only during of one prophet).
The LORD in Isaiah 42 is a reference to God. Muhammad is not God.
steps wrote: 15- I will make waste mountains and hills, and dry up all their herbs; and I will make the rivers islands, and I will dry up the pools.
Here God is talking about deserts of Arabia. In desert place, mountains and hills of sand are not steady, they diminish with winds and another one appears. And you can not find rivers but small water islands as described by God.
Also this verse has nothing to do with Jesus (pbuh)
It has nothing to do with Muhammad. Arabia was dry before he was born.
steps wrote: 16- And I will bring blind by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked thins straight. These things I will do unto them, and not forsake them.
As God says above, He did not send to pagan Arabs until Muhammad (pbuh) as stated in verse 22. Until Muhammad (pbuh), Arabs were worshipping idols, killing baby girls, drinking alcohol, gambling etc. Allah a way (Islam, unity of God) that they did not know, made Qur'an and Muhammad (pbuh) guided (as light before) them, and made crooked things (mentioned above) straight.
This verse also has nothing to do with Jesus (pbuh).
Jesus brought people out of darkness to the light, this verse is very much about Him.
steps wrote: 17- They shall be turned back, they shall be greatly ashamed, that trust in graven images, that they say to the molten images, Ye are our gods.
This is exactly what pagan Arabs did, when they heard the message that given to Muhammad (pbuh) by God. They offered money, authority and many things to our prophet and he did not accept any of them. They ashamed, because they thought that all other Arabs will mock them, and will not visit the Kaba (at that time they were using Kaba as place of the idols that all other Arab tribes were using) and this would be their economic end. And they turned graven images and they asked help from those images.
All people will forsake paganism when Jesus comes again. This verse is about Him.
steps wrote: This verse also has nothing to do with Jesus (pbuh).
18- Hear, ye deaf; and look, ye blind, that ye may see.
19- Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the Lord's servant?
20- Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not.
In this verses God talks to Christians and Jews.
In verse 18: Hear you (Christians and Jews) deaf, and look you (Christians and Jews) blind, you may see that above things are happening every day in Islamic world.
In verse 19: God says, "Who is blind or deaf? My messenger (Muhammad (pbuh) and his followers) or you?
In verse 20: You do see these things but you don't pay attention, you don't comprehend. You do hear the Qur'an and you know that Muslims sing new song and Muslim cities lift up their voices and they shout from top of mountains, they glorify Me, but you don't pay attention, you don't comprehend.
You are adding your own words to the text now. It says nothing of that sort.
steps wrote: Indeed, Christians and Jews think that Muslims do not see the right path (blind). Even you wrote that "What Muslims do not understand...".
Yes, I did. And I was able to prove it using science and history. You have been unable to disprove my points, and your argument stems from adding things to the Bible that aren't there.
steps wrote: These verses also have nothing to do with Jesus (pbuh).
21- The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.
In Qur'an many places Allah calls Prophet as "My friend" (friend is not exactly translation for Habeeb/Habib, because Habeeb is closer then friend but I couldn't find another word for this). And He magnified the law and people still follow his law. Jesus did not bring new law, and non of the Christians follows the law that he was following.
This verse also has nothing to do with Jesus (pbuh)
22- But this is a people robbed and spoiled; they are all of them snared in holes, and they are hid in prison houses: they are for a prey, and none delivereth; for a spoil, and none saith, Restore.
In this verse God talks about corrupted society of pagan Arabs. And, indeed, He had not send any prophets to Arabs until Muhammad (pbuh). That's why "none saith, Restore". But up to Jesus (pbuh), many prophets had been send to Israelites.
This verse also has nothing to do with Jesus (pbuh)
These verses have to do with His future coming.
steps wrote: 23- Who among you will give ear to this? who will hearken and hear for the time to come?
Who will become Muslim?
Conclusion:
Isaiah 42 describes Prophet Muhammad.
You added to the text again. As I have shown you, Isaiah 42 is not about Muhammad. It is about Jesus.

steps
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Post #4

Post by steps »

You can use this argument to fool the Christians . as the church used to . but when you debate any Muslim . you must present acceptable answers .

Therefore the Christians asked : if we are on the true way . then why the Muslims win the debates ? even the atheists . it is easy for them to destroy your belief .

I will try to close your new topics ,, then Peace . and only Peace . you failed .

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Post #5

Post by TG123 »

steps wrote: You can use this argument to fool the Christians . as the church used to . but when you debate any Muslim . you must present acceptable answers .

Therefore the Christians asked : if we are on the true way . then why the Muslims win the debates ? even the atheists . it is easy for them to destroy your belief .

I will try to close your new topics ,, then Peace . and only Peace . you failed .
You haven't "won" the debate. You added your own words to verses in the Bible, implied that Muhammad God, and ignore the fact that he did not bring justice to the earth, but only to Arabia.

This is not about "winning" or "losing" debates. This is about one's soul.

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