Own hands possess / concubines

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Own hands possess / concubines

Post #1

Post by steps »

TG123 wrote:
Actually, He said this about the Pharisees. "Adulterous" would be a good word to describe Muhammad's men, who he gave permission to sleep with women who were not married to them (ie concubines). Some Old Testament prophets engaged in this sinful and shameful behaviour, and Muhammad allowed his men to continue it.
Before answering your post allow me to remind you :

The Center of all religious secrecies,crimes, and scandals

Or you can visit :

Just to know the adulterous

No wonder why people still leaving christianity ? , and no wonder the appearance of atheism ?


Islam on slave girls/concubines :

[transported ] from : http://islamicresponse.blogspot.com/201 ... bines.html

It is true that a lot of people push this subject ‘under the rug’ and do not understand it or are sometimes ashamed of this concept. That is because, today’s society and behavior is absolutely different from the conditions prevalent 1500 years ago at the time of Revelation of the Quran. There is no place on earth where this concept is practiced today, thus to really understand the concept in its entirety, we must try to imagine the times of the Revelation of the Glorious Quran.

Since time immemorial, slavery was an accepted practice; thus it was not Islam that started this practice, but rather Islam was the first system to inculcate the freedom of slaves and take steps to make them equal citizens of society. Slavery was abolished in modern society only a couple of centuries ago, and was openly practiced in almost all parts of the civilized world even until the early 1900s. But Islam made it a virtue to free slaves, and inculcate them into society as equal citizens, almost 1500 years ago

The prophet said regarding the rights of slaves:

Your servants and your slaves are your brothers. Anyone who has slaves should give them from what he eats and wears. He should not charge them with work beyond their capabilities. If you must set them to hard work, in any case I advise you to help them.

Source: Bukhari, Iman, 22; Adab, 44; Muslim, Iman, 38–40; Abu Dawud, Adab, 124

Ali reported that the last words of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, were: "The prayer! The prayer! Fear Allah concerning your slaves ! "

Source: Al-Adab al-Mufrad Al-Bukhari , Nr. 158.

• Jabir ibn 'Abdullah said, "The Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, advised that slaves should be well-treated. He said, 'Feed them from what you eat and clothe them from what you wear. Do not punish what Allah has created.' "

Source: Al-Adab al-Mufrad Al-Bukhari , Nr. 188.

• Sallam ibn 'Amr reported from one of the Companions of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Your slaves are your brothers, so treat him well. Ask for their help in what is too much for you and help them in what is too much for them."

Source: Al-Adab al-Mufrad Al-Bukhari , Nr. 190.

• Abu Hurayra reported that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "The slave has his food and clothing. Do not burden a slave with work which he is incapable of doing."

Source: Al-Adab al-Mufrad Al-Bukhari , Nr. 192.

Not one of you should [ when introducing someone ] say ‘This is my slave’ , ‘This is my concubine’. He should call them ‘my daughter’ or ‘my son’ or ‘my brother’.

Source: Ibn Hanbal, Musnad, 2 ,4

For this reason ‘Umar and his servant took it in turns to ride on the camel from Madina to Jerusalem on their journey to take control of Masjid al-Aqsa. While he was the head of the state, ‘Uthman had his servant pull his own ears in front of the people since he had pulled his. Abu Dharr, applying the hadith literally, made his servant wear one half of his suit while he himself wore the other half. From these instances, it was being demonstrated to succeeding generations of Muslims, and a pattern of conduct established, that a slave is fully a human being, not different from other people in his need for respect and dignity and justice.

"The masters were obliged not to put slaves under hardship; slaves were not to be tortured, abused or treated unjustly. They could marry among “themselves with their master's permission - or with freemen or women ! They could appear as witnesses and participate with free men in all “affairs. Many of them were appointed as governors, commanders of army and administrators. In the eyes of Islam, a pious slave has precedence over “an impious free man." Source: Al-Tabataba'i, Tafsir ( vol.16, pp. 338-358 )

The Prophet, had stipulated in his "last pilgrimage" speech:

"And your slaves ! see that you feed them such food as you eat yourselves and dress them what you yourself wear. And if they commit a “mistake which you are not inclined to forgive then sell them, for they are the servants of Allah and are not to be tormented! "

Source: Ibn Sa'd, op. cit., vol. II:1, p. 133

"Serve God, and join not any partners with Him ; and do good to parents, kinsfolk, orphans, those in need, neighbours who are near, neighbours “who are strangers, the Companion by your side, the way-farer (ye meet), And what your right hands possess : for God loveth not the arrogant, the “vainglorious" Surah An Nisa, verse 36

The phrase "What your right hands possess" refers to one’s slaves (male and female). Allah swt ordains the kind treatment of slaves in the same verse where He commands man to worship Him and to treat his parents, relations and neighbours generously, and this signifies the importance of this ruling.

What were the rights of concubines?

The status was similar to that of wife. The children were exactly like the other children from the person’s legally wedded wife. They were to be given exactly the same rights as his other children. The children of the slave girl would inherit the property exactly as the other children. There was absolutely no difference amongst the children. And once any slave girl bore a child, she could not be sold to anybody else and thus became a permanent member of the household.

Then you will probably ask how is this any different from the modern days concept of a mistress/prostitution/adultery?

There is a huge difference between the slave girls of those times and the system of prostitution which is so prevalent as a disease in today’s society.

The slave girl was a social issue of the times, which if not solved by Islam would give rise to adultery and prostitution. In prostitution, the woman sells here services for a fee to anyone who is willing to pay. The slave girl was taken into a household as a full member.

In prostitution, the woman has sexual relationships with many men. The slave girl would have sexual relations only with the person she was given to; very similar to the husband-wife relationship, the only difference being that the wife came into the house through a marriage contract, and the slave girl was allotted to the person by the state.

Prostitution is a result of illegal lust, and is a huge sin in the eyes of Allah.

The allocation of slave girls was a issue of the times to envelope the woman taken as slaves in a war into the Islamic society. Prostitution and adultery do not have any responsibility attached to it. The man- woman have a one-off relationship and depart. The slave girls were a responsibility of the person, who spent on them, gave them a place to live, fed them, clothed them, and raised their children as his children.

The children from adultery and prostitution are regarded as born out of wedlock and grow up without the name and without the shadow of a father. The children of the slave girls were known as the children of the person, grew up with his other children, and had exactly the same rights and inheritance as the other offspring. The system of slave girls was accepted and respected by the Islamic society of the times. The slave girl was treated like his wife, and the children from these slave girls were treated like their children by society. No religion, no state, no moral society accepts and respects the institutions of prostitution and adultery. This is a disease of society and every moral society has tried to eradicate this disease with little success.

Despite this, it was not simply a case of forcing someone into having sex to satisfy your desires.

Below are three English translations to the Verse where Allah commands the Muslim men to not force their slave women into sex.

The following translations were taken from http://mama.stg.brown.edu/webs/quran_br ... easy.shtml

Translation: Yusufali:

"Let those who find not the wherewithal for marriage keep themselves chaste, until God gives them means out of His grace. And if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing (to enable them to earn their freedom for a certain sum), give them such a deed if ye know any good in them: yea, give them something yourselves out of the means which God has given to you. But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity, in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life. But if anyone compels them, yet, after such compulsion, is God, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to them), (The Noble Quran, 24:33)"

Translation: Pickthall:

"And let those who cannot find a match keep chaste till Allah give them independence by His grace. And such of your slaves as seek a writing (of emancipation), write it for them if ye are aware of aught of good in them, and bestow upon them of the wealth of Allah which He hath bestowed upon you. Force not your slave-girls to whoredom that ye may seek enjoyment of the life of the world, if they would preserve their chastity. And if one force them, then (unto them), after their compulsion, lo! Allah will be Forgiving, Merciful. (The Noble Quran, 24:33)"

Translation: Shakir:

"And let those who do not find the means to marry keep chaste until Allah makes them free from want out of His grace. And (as for) those who ask for a writing from among those whom your right hands possess, give them the writing if you know any good in them, and give them of the wealth of Allah which He has given you; and do not compel your slave girls to prostitution, when they desire to keep chaste, in order to seek the frail good of this world's life; and whoever compels them, then surely after their compulsion Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (The Noble Quran, 24:33)"

In all three translations, we clearly see that if the slave woman desires to keep chaste, then her Muslim master must not compel her into sex. It might sound odd to us today, but pagans back then were used to having sex with and raping their slave girls, even the ones who were married:

Narrated Jabir ibn Abdullah: "Musaykah, a slave-girl of some Ansari, came and said: My master forces me to commit fornication. Thereupon the following verse was revealed: "But force not your maids to prostitution (when they desire chastity). (24:33)" (Translation of Sunan Abu Dawud, Divorce (Kitab Al-Talaq), Book 12, Number 2304)"

So to women back then, it was something normal for a married slave woman to sleep with her master. It was something normal in the society at that time.

Allah Almighty in the Noble Quran not only allows for the slave man or woman to earn their freedom from their Muslim master, and receive money from their Muslim master to help them start their free life, but also commands the Muslim men to not compel their slave women into sex.
Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him also said:

Narrated Abu Musa Al-Ash'ari: "The Prophet said, "Give food to the hungry, pay a visit to the sick and release (set free) the one in captivity (by paying his ransom)." (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Food, Meals, Volume 7, Book 65, Number 286)"

Islam came to liberate all slaves and to end the Judeo-Christian and Pagan slavery that was practiced before Islam. When Allah Almighty made lawful for the Muslim men to have sex with their slave women, He did it to keep the Islamic society back then during Islam's weak, partial and venerable times under control.

Also, if any compulsion was made unto the slave woman, then Allah Almighty will add more mercy and forgiveness unto her in the Day of Judgement. Below is the commentary on this exact section and point in Noble Verse 24:33 by Minister (Sheikh) Abdullah Yusuf Ali; may Allah Almighty rest his soul:

"The poor unfortunate girls, who are victims of such a nefarious trade (i.e., slave trade), will yet find mercy from Allah, whose bounties extend to the lowest of His creatures."

When Islam was reveled to Prophet Muhammad, slavery was a worldwide common social phenomenon; it was much older than Islam. Slavery was deeply rooted in every society to the extent that it was impossible to imagine a civilized society without slaves.

In spite of this social fact, Islam was the first religion to recognize slavery as a social illness that needed to be addressed. Since slavery was deeply rooted in the society, Islam did not abolish it at once. Rather, Islam treated slavery in the same manner it treated other social illnesses. Islam followed the same methodology of gradual elimination in dealing with this social disease as it did with other social illnesses, for example: the prohibition of alcohol in three steps.

Concerning having slave women, we would like to let you know that it happens to be a practice necessitated by the condition in which early Muslims found themselves vis-à-vis non-Muslims, as both parties engaged in wars. Slave women or milk al-yameen are referred to in the Qur'an as “Those whom your right hand possess� or “ma malakat aymanukum�; they are those taken as captives during conquests and subsequently became slaves, or those who were descendants of slaves.

Thus, it was a war custom in the past to take men and women as captives and then turn them into slaves. Islam did not initiate it, rather, it was something in practice long ago before the advent of Islam. And when Islam came, it tried to eradicate this practice, bit by bit. So it first restricted it to the reciprocal practice of war, in the sense that Muslims took war captives just as the enemies did with Muslims.

But as it aimed at putting an end to such issue, Islam laid down rules which would eventually lead to eradicating the practice. So it allowed Muslims to have intercourse with slave women taken as captives of just and legitimate wars. In so doing, the woman would automatically become free if she got pregnant. What's more, her child would also become free.

Not only that, Islam also ordered a Muslim to treat the slave woman in every respect as if she were his wife. She should be well fed, clothed and given due protection. In the family environment, she had the opportunity to learn about Islam and was free to accept it or reject it. She also had the opportunity to earn her freedom for she could be ransomed.

In the light of the above-mentioned facts, and the nature of the question posed by people, it's clear that some people misunderstand the wisdom behind the permissibility of having female slaves and think that it is meant to unleash men’s desires and give them more enjoyment. Never! That is not the point! It is, rather, means of freeing slaves; and this is clarified above in the fact that if a master got a female slave pregnant, then he could neither sell her nor give her away as a present. And if he died, she would not be considered part of his property. She'd receive her freedom and her baby would also be free.

But, we have to stress that this case should not be confused with that of female servants or maids, for they are free and not slaves. Therefore, it is forbidden to engage in sexual relations with them except through an Islamic marriage.

Slavery has been abolished by international conventions, and goes in line with aims and objectives of Islam, as it has called for centuries ago.

As for marrying slaves, it is something permissible under two conditions: first, if one is unable to pay the dowry of a free woman. Second, if there is fear of committing adultery if one doesn’t get married. This is clarified by the following verse: “And whose is not able to afford to marry free, believing women, let them marry from the believing maids whom your right hands possess. This is for him among you who feareth to commit sin. But to have patience would be better for you.� (An-Nisaa’: 25)

This verse shows that Muslim men should abstain from illicit relations and seek enjoyment through marriage to free women or through their female slaves.

In conclusion, Allah has forbidden certain types of behavior and permitted other kinds of behavior as a safeguard to the individual and to the society. Allah has forbidden fornication and adultery. However, in the case of captives whom your right hands posses, it's something necessitated by the special circumstances which were created when the Muslims were at war.

This is not a practice for today which allows men to take extra sexual partners in addition to his wife, or a loophole as you put it. You have the same responsibilty to the slave girl as you would to the wife, with the same inheritence rights for the children born out of such relations hence it is more of a burden than a loophole to escape the 'treating wives equally' concept. Regardless of that, it is not a concept which is in practice today or encouraged for today. It was something specifically utilised and designed for 1500 years ago where the practice was already widespread. All Islam did was to bring structure to what was already in existence, and eventually aim to remove it all together. One may say it should be banned straight away, why the long drawn out process.

The reality is however human nature does not allow for such action. People gradually get use to change, and the Quran itself was revealed over a long period of time for this reason so people could gradually get use to the injunctions and guidelines and thus adapt better. That is exactly the case with this issue, rules were bought in to slowly eradicate the practice and give rights to women who without Islam would have nothing equivalent to rely upon

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Post #11

Post by TG123 »

steps wrote: You must have common announcement from the Christians that the bible is not corrupted . then it is allowed to use the scriptures as a fact against Allah and his prophets .
You need no such thing. Obviously, I do not believe the Bible is corrupted. But even if it was, it wouldn't change the fact that the Quran and hadiths are full of mistakes.
steps wrote: Imagine this :
According to the corrupted book " the bible " God allowed Adultery .
According to the corrupted book " the bible " some prophets committed Adultery .
The Quran teaches the same thing. Having a concubine is adultery, it is no different than having a "mistress".
steps wrote: Means :
1- There are unbelievers [ atheists and ….. ] never committed Adultery and never drink Alcohol . and they are better than the believers [ prophets of God ] .
True. There are atheists who only sleep with their wives. In this way, they are better than Muhammad's followers who had sex with concubines, and better than some Old Testament prophets who did the same thing.
steps wrote: 2- God has no knowledge about his creation , he does not has any wisdom . because he chosen untrusted people to carry his message . but they were the first persons that broke the promise of God .
Not at all. He chose messed up and weak people to show that He can work through even them. This should give everyone hope that no matter how messed up we are, if we turn towards God He can use us, and if we fall and ask for forgiveness and mercy He will give it to us.
steps wrote: 3- As long as the prophets were untrusted , so we should not blame the other people for doing greater sins than Adultery .
Not at all. The prophets paid for their sins. David's son was killed by God, and his family was a mess. Moses was not allowed to enter the Promised Land. When Noah got drunk, his son humiliated him.

The stories of the prophets are a warning for us, as well as an encouragement. A warning that if we act stupidly, we will be punished. An encouragement that though the prophets were full of weaknesses and faults, God still used them. If we come to Him sincerely, He will accept us in spite of our faults.
steps wrote: 4- God does not deserve the worship . because he is unable to control his chosen people [ prophets ] . and he was unable to direct them to the correct path .
5- God does not deserve the worship . he is unjust because he destroyed the Land of Lut . but did not punish Lut and his daughters because of greater crime " incest " .
God chose to allow His prophets to make mistakes, like He allows us to make mistakes. There is no record that Lot's daughters knew that incest was wrong. They believed they were the only people left on earth. Lot was unaware of what was happening, because he was drunk.
steps wrote: But in NT , the disaster became bigger , and the gap expanded .

The Sexuality of Jesus?

Also from the secret gospel of Mark :

23 "And they went to Bethany and there was a woman whose brother had died.
24 And coming up to him, she prostrated herself before Jesus and said to him, 'Son of David,
25 have mercy on me.' But the disciples rebuked her. And becoming angry,
26 Jesus went with her to the garden where the tomb was. And
01 immediately a great sound was heard from the tomb, and Jesus, going toward it
02 rolled away the stone from the entrance to the tomb. And going in immediately where
03 the young man was, he stretched out a hand and raised him up, holding
04 his hand. Then, the man looked at him and loved him and
05 he began to call him to his side, that he might be with him. And going from
06 the tomb, they went to the house of the young man. For he was rich. And after
07 six days, Jesus instructed him. And when it was late, the young man went
08 to him. He had put a linen around his naked body, and
09 he remained with him through that night. For Jesus taught him
10 the mystery of the kingdom of God. After he got up from there,
11 he turned to the region of the Jordan.
The "hidden Gospel of Mark" is not part of the Bible and never was.
steps wrote: so when a Jew or a Christian invites people to his religion :
he will say accept my God that allowed adultery . or accept my sexual Jesus .
God did allow His prophets to commit adultery, both the Bible and Quran teaches this to be the case. The "hidden Gospel of Mark" is not and has never been part of the Bible, so it has nothing to do with Christianity. By using it as an example, you display your own ignorance more than anything else.
steps wrote: Therefore this book [ Bible ] is no longer trusted source from Allah , because the hands of the Jews and the Christians corrupted it .
You have not demonstrated this to be the case.
steps wrote: BUT in Islam , we never say this about Allah [ God ] and we never believe in this about Allah or any of his prophets . even the true [ Torah and Gospel ] never mentioned that prophets commited Adultery and Allah never allowed adultery :

[28. When they do aught that is shameful, they say: "We found our fathers doing so"; and "(Allah) commanded us thus": Say: "Nay, Allah never commands what is shameful: do ye say of Allah what ye know not?"29. Say: "My Lord hath commanded justice; and that ye set your whole selves (to Him) at every time and place of prayer, and call upon Him, making your devotion sincere as in His sight: such as He created you in the beginning, so shall ye return."30. Some He hath guided: Others have (by their choice) deserved the loss of their way; in that they took the evil ones, in preference to Allah, for their friends and protectors, and think that they receive guidance.] Surah 7

The prophets from Noah to Mohammad are the greatest teachers and the most religious persons , Satan has no control on them to lead them to the wrongful ways or doing evil deeds .
By allowing his men to take concubines, Muhammad allowed them to engage in adultery and fornication. What is even worse, he allowed them to sleep with married women... making both them and the concubines adulterers.


Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: Thus hath Allah ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.

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Post #12

Post by TG123 »

Salaam Alaikum.
steps wrote:As long as you accused Allah and his prophets by false . then I will stop here .. and nothing will be added .
You keep saying that, and then adding more insults and false statements.
steps wrote: [18. And who does more wrong than he who invents a lie against Allah. Such will be brought before their Lord, and the witnesses will say, "These are the ones who lied against their Lord!" No doubt! the curse of Allah is on the Zalimun(polytheists, wrong-doers, oppressors, etc.) .]

[60. And on the Day of Resurrection you will see those who lied against Allah (i.e. attributed to Him sons, partners, etc.) their faces will be black. Is there not in Hell an abode for the arrogant ones?]
True, and the author of the Quran is one of the biggest liars about Allah. He impersonated Him and wrote a book full of mistakes in His Name, then had the audacity to claim Muhammad was His prophet!
TG123 wrote: How did I lie against Allah?

Islam lies against Him by claiming He is the author of the Quran and the one who sent Muhammad.

You have not been able to disprove that

- the Nabataeans and not the Thamud were the ones who built the stone structures at Madain Saleh, structures that were 200 BC- AD 200 tombs that the Quran's author mistook for houses built before Moses
- Most of the world's Jews and other monotheists do not fall into the categories that Muhammad created in his description of the Day of Judgement
- there is no forbidden partition or barrier between fresh and salty waters that meet
- the coccyx decays, as does every other bone in the human body

The Quran and the hadiths lie against Allah by claiming He is their originator.

Allah gave us salvation through the cross, on which He suffered for us as Jesus Christ. May you find salvation in Him. Ameen.
steps wrote: Pharaoh did not believe in Moses not because Moses was not a true prophet , or Moses did not convince him , or the Miracles of Allah that Supported Moses were not true from Allah . Just because Pharaoh did not want to believe , an arrogant person refused the truth .
And prophet Moses did his mission perfectly . Allah says about Pharaoh and his nation : [13. But when Our Signs came to them, that should have opened their eyes, they said: "This is sorcery manifest!" 14. And they rejected those Signs in iniquity and arrogance, though their souls were convinced thereof: so see what was the end of those who acted corruptly! ] Surah 27

Also the Jews did not believe in Jesus not because Jesus was not a true prophet , or Jesus did not convince them , or the Miracles of Allah that Supported Jesus were not true from Allah . Just because the Jews do not want to believe in him , an arrogant people refused the truth .
And prophet Jesus did his mission perfectly .

And you are on the side of Pharaoh and the Jews . you do not believe in prophet Mohammad not because Mohammad was not a true prophet , or Mohammad did not convince you , or the Miracles of Allah that Supported Mohammad were not true from Allah . Just because you do not want to believe in him , an arrogant person refuses the truth . prophet Mohammad did his mission perfectly .

[112. Likewise did We make for every Messenger an enemy,- evil ones among men and jinns, inspiring each other with flowery discourses by way of deception. If thy Lord had so planned, they would not have done it: so leave them and their inventions alone. ]
Neither Moses or Jesus made historical or scientific mistakes in their teachings. Muhammad did, and so did the author of the Quran. The Pharaoh was unable to prove Moses wrong, and the Pharisees were unable to prove Jesus wrong. They opposed them because they hated their message.

On the contrary, I have been able to show you mistakes in the Quran, and in the hadiths. If you accept that the Quran is a book written by God and that the hadiths are teachings of Muhammad who was getting his information from God, it means you must believe that God made mistakes. I don't.
steps wrote: you will continue saying : No , No , No .. Steps you did not disprove the mistakes of the Quran .

Is it mean that you are saying the truth ? certainly NOT .
If my arguments are wrong, show me. Prove to me that the Thamud, not the Nabataeans, carved houses out of rock at Al Hijr. Prove to me that there is "forbidden partition" between salty and fresh water that forbids them from transgressing. Prove to me that all or even most Jews are either worshipers of false gods, Ezra worshipers, Jesus worshipers or Muslims. Prove to me that the coccyx bone does not decompose. These are things that the author of the Quran and Muhammad said.

I have shown you conclusively that they are simply false. No wonder you are getting so angry.
steps wrote: Because :

1- If the Quran contains mistakes or against the modern sciences then the Muslims will ignore the holy Quran , and become like the Christians that ignored the bible to follow the atheism .
People who ignore the Bible and turn to atheism are not Christians anymore. Some Muslims leave Islam, others stay. Whether a religion is true or not does not depend on how many people follow it.
steps wrote: 2- Many former Christians and former atheists who became Muslims are proving the Quran is correct . they have a good background about the false paths and they knew after studying the Quran is the true path .
I encourage them to address the mistakes I have pointed out in the hadiths and Quran.
steps wrote: 3-The consequences of the war by media against Islam has been reversed against the enemies of Islam , All praise be to Allah the brotherhood of Islam is increasing and expanding .
The media teaches that Islam is a violent and murderous religion that encourages terrorism. I have never said such a thing.
steps wrote: You are only one face of the multi faces against Islam [ the enemies ] . even if I give you money or good promises you will never change your feud and enmity toward Islam. Allah predestined this .
He says to his prophet : [63. And He has united their (i.e. believers') hearts. If you had spent all that is in the earth, you could not have united their hearts, but Allah has united them. Certainly He is All-Mighty, All-Wise.]

Who united the hearts of the believers is Allah the sender of the true prophet Mohammad .

[119. Lo! You are the ones who love them but they love you not, and you believe in all the Scriptures [i.e. you believe in the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel), while they disbelieve in your Book, the Qur'an]. And when they meet you, they say, "We believe". But when they are alone, they bite the tips of their fingers at you in rage. Say: "Perish in your rage. Certainly, Allah knows what is in the breasts (all the secrets)." ]
Please don't ever offer me money or good promises to enter Islam. I will not allow you to buy my soul.

You accuse me of being an enemy of Islam?

I have protested against the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. I have been in Palestine and worked to protect Palestinian Muslims in Hebron from attacks by the settlers and IDF. In the process, I was almost arrested, and had my nose broken with a metal pipe. I have helped to stop the deportation of a Syrian man in my city to Syria, where he faced torture. I have protested against the banning of hijabs in France, and volunteered tutoring an Afghan refugee who was fleeing the Taleban. I have marched alongside Muslims in my city in rallies in solidarity with the people of Egypt and Libya.

You know absolutely nothing about me.
steps wrote: the funny part : when you say : I will pray for you :
1- to the father .
2- to holy spirit .
3- to the son .
4- to the mother .
5- to the cross .

maybe if you ask one of them the others will refuse your prayer .
my opinion to give each on of them his own prayers , and each pagan god his own ceremony .

[ 14. If ye invoke them, they will not listen to your call, and if they were to listen, they cannot answer your (prayer). On the Day of Judgment they will reject your "Partnership". and none, (O man!) can tell thee (the Truth) like the One Who is acquainted with all things.] Surah35

all praise be to Allah that I am a muslim
You have again demonstrated your ignorance of Christianity. Christians believe that the Father, Holy Spirit and Son are one God. We do not believe that either Mary of "the cross" is God.

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Post #13

Post by steps »

[112. Likewise did We make for every Messenger an enemy,- evil ones among men and jinns, inspiring each other with flowery discourses by way of deception. If thy Lord had so planned, they would not have done it: so leave them and their inventions alone. ]

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Post #14

Post by steps »

For 1400 years . the enemies of Islam [ Pagans , Christians , Jews , atheists , …. ]tried to attack prophet Mohammad , and what was the result ?
The history forgot them , and prophet Mohammad peace be upon him stands great and shining no one will be able to break him , because Allah with him :

1. To thee have We granted the Fount (of Abundance).2. Therefore to thy Lord turn in Prayer and Sacrifice.3. For he who hateth thee, he will be cut off (from Future Hope).

His name is Muhammad means praised one or praise worthy. And the most popular name .
His name is Ahmed is "highly praised or one who constantly thanks God".
His name is telling you that he is a prophet from Allah .

He is the only prophet that rule his followers from his grave . and no one can reach this greatness .

One of the German Muslims said : the situation of a person attacked prophet Mohammad , is like a man spits on the sun , then his spit will return on his face . and will never harm the sun .

The end .

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Post #15

Post by TG123 »

steps wrote: [112. Likewise did We make for every Messenger an enemy,- evil ones among men and jinns, inspiring each other with flowery discourses by way of deception. If thy Lord had so planned, they would not have done it: so leave them and their inventions alone. ]
This verse was produced by an entity who claimed to be God, yet confused the Nabataeans with the Thamud, and which believed there is a barrier that prevents salty and fresh water that meets, from "transgressing". The entity who wrote this verse also believed Muhammad was God's prophet, in spite of his many obviously false teachings. Of course, Islam's greatest mistake is denying the divinity and crucifixion of Jesus Christ. The problems I listed previously are just the easiest ones to display.

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Post #16

Post by TG123 »

steps wrote: For 1400 years . the enemies of Islam [ Pagans , Christians , Jews , atheists , …. ]tried to attack prophet Mohammad , and what was the result ?
The history forgot them , and prophet Mohammad peace be upon him stands great and shining no one will be able to break him , because Allah with him :

1. To thee have We granted the Fount (of Abundance).2. Therefore to thy Lord turn in Prayer and Sacrifice.3. For he who hateth thee, he will be cut off (from Future Hope).

His name is Muhammad means praised one or praise worthy. And the most popular name .
His name is Ahmed is "highly praised or one who constantly thanks God".
His name is telling you that he is a prophet from Allah .

He is the only prophet that rule his followers from his grave . and no one can reach this greatness .

One of the German Muslims said : the situation of a person attacked prophet Mohammad , is like a man spits on the sun , then his spit will return on his face . and will never harm the sun .

The end .
Muhammad rules you from the grave? Is he your master?

I choose to follow God, not man.

If Muhammad was so great, how come he made such huge mistakes about Jewish beliefs and bone decomposition as he taught about the Day of Judgement and Resurrection?

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Re: Own hands possess / concubines

Post #17

Post by Kometa2 »

[Replying to post 1 by steps]

We need to know that Jesus taught christians to love others as they love themselves and treat them as they want to be treated so each christians who hurts other person (in any way) does that against the word of God and the Will of God. But Allah allows to rape women (surah 4:24) and to beat wives 4:34, and to kill infidels (9:5) so when muslims do those things they do it in accordance to the will of Allah. and that is a huge difference....
God in the Bible said He is Holy and He is LOVE. Allah introduced Himself as a Deceiver.
that sets the standards for morality of both christianity and islam. That is why in islam when a woman is caught at adultery she would be stoned, even nowadays. But when jews brought a woman to Jesus (Gospel of John chapter 8), and she was caught at the very act of adultery He let her go and showed her mercy because His mercy and love could change her heart a lot morethan cruelty and punishment since the Bible says that God draws us to Himslef by His goodness (Romans 2:4)

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